Newbie 1060: It's a Murder Mystery (Game Over)

[Zensei]

Is there a way I can quick post? And is there a way I can make a post without being taken to the "your post was successful" screen?

[Voidedmafia]

Ah I see what you mean by forced. I'm just a serious person and like to be taken as so. And as I said, I see no reason to chatter about nothing or watch you guys chatter about nothing.
Vold, smileys can express emotion as well. The huge ass gifs are very annoying and distract from the content of your posts. I don't see why you feel the need to be so stubborn in this.

Spoiler:

I simply wish to play this way, but I can try to remember to spoiler them when I put them in. Nothing wrong with playing differently, is there?

Spoiler:

In any case, to your recent post, the first answer should be obvious if you look near the bottom, and I don't think so.

Spoiler tags corrected. (Equinox)

[Voidedmafia]

wait, why didn't that...oh, it's not like DS's spoilers...

Any way I can make these be in my post and be able to have a show/hide feature to it? I know you're not that enthused with the GIFs, but I'd like to try playing a game with them.

[Zensei]

Bleh if I'm the only one they bother than I suppose you're all right.

Yeah just realized it did a quick reply. When I did it earlier, it went to advanced mode.

[Zensei]

Vold I'm not seeing what you mean about Primate's "bandwagon/train" posts. Like I don't get what you mean by him backtracking with it >_>.

[Primate]

I was probably playing a bit too crazy for a newb game at the beginning there, it may have been confusing and I apologise for that. The reason for my second vote on mammut was simply to have a second vote on someone and get a bandwagon going. The post I made to respond to mammut where I said it was a serious thing was both a reaction to mammuts relaxed stance on his wagon (his response was a correct one), and partially because I wanted to see what snowjorden would do if I hyped a wagon up a bit and then tried to paint him as the leader of it. I did this by using obviously faulty logic (there is absolutely no way that snowjorden could actually be suspicious of mammut because he hadn't posted yet. Snow obviously isn't a big deal around here because he's never played here before) because I wanted to keep the air of the whole thing not being serious.

I put the second vote on mammut because I like bandwagons in the early game and find they give people something to talk about a lot quicker than just a bunch of people moving votes around and waiting for a dumb person to say a thing and be bandwagonned anyway.

Sarg you have mafia exp, yeah? How much? Also don't say things like "problem officer" unless you intend for it to be a crumb. Don't crumb either.

People here don't generally crumb. It does happen, but very infrequently, and if it does it's generally something more subtle but more obvious when found (capitalised letters in a long sentence is the most normal one). If someone says things that obviously relates to a certain role, use your judgement but they probably aren't hinting it.

@Prime, can I call you Prime? If not, what do I call you for short? Why is Snow a big deal? Also if you were to flip scum, do you think we could essentially clear mammut? Why or why not?

Prim is most common. Also, I wont flip scum. If in a hypothetical similar game where I was scum and I flipped, the reason you couldn't clear mammut was because I hadn't actually made any serious moves to get him lynched here. Deadlines on games here generally last 3 weeks and whilst days don't normally run out their length, they are pretty long, and generally have a lot of back and forth between a few wagons. Thats not to say we don't lynch the first person we run up occasionally but a lot of stuff goes on and you can't generally read a person based on one action they take, I may scum attempting to lynch my scumbuddy mammut in order to gain town credit, for example.

This was still during the voting stage, so keep that in mind. And yet, he seems sure that one of his wagoners has a reason, EVEN THOUGH THERE SHOULDN'T BE ANY REASONS THIS EARLY IN THE GAME.

Yeah, I picked up on that.

The fact that he knowingly tossed out the word train favor of bandwagon seems to be a serious lack of thought on his part, moreso for what he was trying to do.

I knew exactly what I was doing (bandwagonning mammut). I didn't care about the specifics (bandwagons going choo choo) because I see them as irrelevant to the intent.

Yep, definitely is. Which is why I wanna know why he thinks I made that vote.

I must confess I'm not sure. There are no contradictions, it doesn't seem bandwagon relevant, and he doesn't seem particularly wishy washy in his stances, which are the kind of things I'd expect to see. Is it something to do with the two unrelated defences of mummat?

Yeah just realized it did a quick reply. When I did it earlier, it went to advanced mode.

It does that if there's been a change to the thread since it loaded.

I personally find the pictures annoying because I find them unecessary and they take up a load of vertical space. I think you also need to treat them as if they are just images in the posts, not expressions of a persons intention. They are so open to interpretation they are essentially meaningless. That said I can live with if he does carry on using them, it's not really effecting my game experience.

Sorry about the wall, I was asleep. If I missed anything I'll probably catch it later.

[Equinox]

Vote Count 1.03

mammut (3) - snowjorden, Primate, mb53
Zensei (2) - GreyICE, Sarg338
Primate (1) - mammut

Not Voting (3) - Mhi200, Voidedmafia, Zensei

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

The deadline is Friday, March 4, 2011 at 11:59 PM EST (UTC-5).

Spoiler Tags

Code: Select all

[spoiler][/spoiler]

is for one-line spoilers. If you want the show/hide feature, use

Code: Select all

[spoiler=][/spoiler]

[Voidedmafia]

Vold I'm not seeing what you mean about Primate's "bandwagon/train" posts. Like I don't get what you mean by him backtracking with it >_>.

Spoiler:

Well, I suppose backtraking was the wrong word to use there. But the seemingly quick "oh, it could've been this but I decided not to," struck me as odd.

Spoiler:

Also, you can be sure these GIFs will portray what I'm thinking of as accurately as possible. Of course, I can use these to be misleading, but you can do the same with smilies. But I don't think that'll happen often.

Spoiler:

In any case, so far I see GreyICE as the main scum here. I still have eyes on Primate, but his recent post has thrown me a bit on where I need to place him, but he's not entirely at a null or town read yet.

VOTE: GreyICE

[GreyICE]

Grey is there a point in the game in which you become useful? Or do you intend to play this way entirely?

"I want to see why he thinks I'm voting him" is a very bad way to play. Aren't you supposed to be IC/SE? Or are you just challenged? The guru playstyle doesn't really work out. And is just anti-town. Not sure if you're wanting me to respond to your vote some way, but there's not much one can say against nothing.

Helpfulness is highly overrated, as is question and answer sessions. In general, it's interesting to see people's thought patterns.

In this case, I wanted to see several things. First, I wanted to see how you reacted to the votes. You have been acting very forced, and I'm curious what the vote would do. In this case, your response was very townie. You looked over the original posts, decided what was offputting, and then

didn't change it.

You responded that you were here to catch scum, not make friends. If you had modified your behavior to 'fit in' with the rest of us, I would have kept the vote here, but because you didn't, you're not trying to appease the town - you're trying to accomplish our goal of catching scum. That makes you town.

Unvote

Second, I wanted to see how the rest of the town reacted. Primate ignored me. Fair enough, I wasn't doing anything that he needed to respond to, and he didn't respond. I'll push that, but the IC is the IC, and he'll do what he does.

Sarg looked over Zensei's ISO to figure out why I placed the vote I did. He came away with similar conclusions to me, and decided that it was a decent place for his vote, and put it there. I would assume if he found no reason for my vote, it would be on me. That's a town motivation.

mb53 hasn't reacted to much. He seems to want to be helpful, but generally stay out of things. He was much more aggressive last game, but meta can be very fail. You have to tune your approach to the people you're dealing with. In the last game, we had a good half the town lurking and a lot of stalls, so the game required aggression to keep things around. It was pro-town. Here, things are moving well enough. I'll be watching him, you should too, but he's null.

mammut feels persecuted, but it's a newbie game. People are going to be a little thin-skinned. Makes it hard to find tells, but that's okay.

VoidedMafia likes having everything out in the open and explained to him. This seems reasonably pro-town on the face of it, because secrets help the scum hide, but also allows the scum to figure out what everyone is thinking and adapt their behavior to be unsuspicious. Which brings us to...

The most interesting reactions I've seen to anything. Review SnowJordan's ISO.

I've played these games at various other forums and we usually start off just random voting to see who bites. I'll continue that tradition in this game..

I will do something to fit in with the town, no pressure meant here.

Kid went to sleep, thought I'd get up and check this. And ..another page. Sweet jesus. So I'm still kinda at a point where I've got nothing worthwhile to add to the conversation nor do I feel like we've made any ground. Usually is the case during the first day of a game. Either way, just wanted to speak up since some might have noticed I was "browsing this forum."

Doesn't make any waves, nothing to add to the discussion. Seems to want to wait for day 2. Day 1 is the toughest day for scum, because they have had no opportunity to lay the groundwork for their attacks or their role, and have no idea the personalities involved. Day 2+ they can kill off the people most likely to suspect them, and lay suspicion on others. This is very interesting, especially in combination with his bandwagon comment.

Just cause I feel left out ..I wanted to post some awesome pictures.

Doing something just to be town. Then throw some suspicion around.

^ That's why I didn't randomly vote anyone ..cause right, we are out of the RVS. I FOSd dude, cause ..well I can and I've wanted to for a while this game.

Caution. He doesn't want to be leading the wagon on a townie because it draws too much attention. He wants to throw suspicion so someone else leads the wagon.

Vote: SnowJordan

[Voidedmafia]

Grey is there a point in the game in which you become useful? Or do you intend to play this way entirely?

"I want to see why he thinks I'm voting him" is a very bad way to play. Aren't you supposed to be IC/SE? Or are you just challenged? The guru playstyle doesn't really work out. And is just anti-town. Not sure if you're wanting me to respond to your vote some way, but there's not much one can say against nothing.

Helpfulness is highly overrated, as is question and answer sessions. In general, it's interesting to see people's thought patterns.

Spoiler:

Helpfulness may be overrated, but that doesn't mean you can't try to help. Besides, I really would've liked to have seen your reasons much earlier, if what you've said later in the post to Zensei is indeed your reasonings for voting him.

In this case, I wanted to see several things. First, I wanted to see how you reacted to the votes. You have been acting very forced, and I'm curious what the vote would do. In this case, your response was very townie. You looked over the original posts, decided what was offputting, and then

didn't change it.

You responded that you were here to catch scum, not make friends. If you had modified your behavior to 'fit in' with the rest of us, I would have kept the vote here, but because you didn't, you're not trying to appease the town - you're trying to accomplish our goal of catching scum. That makes you town.

Unvote

Spoiler:

Out of curiousity, would you agree or disagree that almost all attempts to appease the town necessarily means you're trying to make friends or "fit in" with the rest of the town?

VoidedMafia likes having everything out in the open and explained to him. This seems reasonably pro-town on the face of it, because secrets help the scum hide, but also allows the scum to figure out what everyone is thinking and adapt their behavior to be unsuspicious. Which brings us to...

Spoiler:

I'd prefer it if you'd take out the "explained to him" part. I just wanted your reasonings to be readily seen by all so we could draw our own conclusions, as you would like us to do. Your own interpretation would've been nice to include, but all in all it would've just been optional on your part.

Spoiler:

You've improved my reading on you, Grey, and it seems that Snow would be a good person to start looking into if he survives to D2 as well as right now. However, you're not off the hook just yet.

[mb53]

I am comfortable with having my vote remain on mammut as he is lurkish, and because I like bandwagons early game. Based on ICE's case, snowjordan warrants and IGMEOY. I've yet to put out much content, hopefully I'll have time to make a nice post tonight/tomorrow.

mb53 hasn't reacted to much. He seems to want to be helpful, but generally stay out of things. He was much more aggressive last game, but meta can be very fail. You have to tune your approach to the people you're dealing with. In the last game, we had a good half the town lurking and a lot of stalls, so the game required aggression to keep things around. It was pro-town. Here, things are moving well enough. I'll be watching him, you should too, but he's null.

Pretty accurate actually. I like replacing into games, because I fail at finding good things to comment on in the beginning. Around page 7 or so I'll start doing well and get aggressive. Gotta watch things go down first.

[GreyICE]

Voided, I'll be entirely honest with you. I don't care if you see my reasoning for a vote or not. I was curious what the responses would be to a naked vote on someone who I felt needed pressure. I made it, I got responses. I believe this helped the town more than me putting on a dog and pony show would have. Everyone having the same logical procedure for catching scum is not helpful to the town, because then the scum only have to act in a way that appeases one person's reasoning. Multiple approaches help establish multiple factors for the scum. If I play differently than you, it means together we are a stronger team than either of us alone. If I play similarly to you, it means that together, we are roughly as effective as one of us alone.

I won't give reasoning for everything I do, but I'm an SE in a newbie game, I will hand it out more often than I do elsewhere. I will also be playing less aggressively than I do elsewhere, I learned that from 1049 (aggression is often though scummy, when more often it is very pro-town - if somewhat uncomfortable). It can be a great way to wake up a town of lurkers, but we don't have that here, thankfully (so far I like the people here (which doesn't mean I won't lynch you if you're scum ). If you want more examples of my play, there is a button labeled "Wiki" under my Avatar (look on the left of my post). You'll see my play varies from game to game - meta cases can be useful, but don't rely on them. BTW, this brings me to useful tools! Which will be its own post.

[Voidedmafia]

Voided, I'll be entirely honest with you. I don't care if you see my reasoning for a vote or not. I was curious what the responses would be to a naked vote on someone who I felt needed pressure. I made it, I got responses. I believe this helped the town more than me putting on a dog and pony show would have. Everyone having the same logical procedure for catching scum is not helpful to the town, because then the scum only have to act in a way that appeases one person's reasoning.

Spoiler:

There is nothing that says that each of us used the same procedure, much less that many of us came to the same if not similar conclusions--and I say many because Sarg has apparantly agreed with you.

Whether or not your approached help the town or not remains to be seen by everyone else, but you seem to like grouping all of us into one group without considering that some of us may not wish that to be so.

Multiple approaches help establish multiple factors for the scum. If I play differently than you, it means together we are a stronger team than either of us alone. If I play similarly to you, it means that together, we are roughly as effective as one of us alone.

Spoiler:

I would have to agree for the most part, but similar play doesn't mean we will point out the same things.

I won't give reasoning for everything I do, but I'm an SE in a newbie game, I will hand it out more often than I do elsewhere.

Spoiler:

This here was a perfect oppurtunity to follow up on this claim. I hope I can trust you to follow up later on.

I will also be playing less aggressively than I do elsewhere, I learned that from 1049 (aggression is often though scummy, when more often it is very pro-town - if somewhat uncomfortable). It can be a great way to wake up a town of lurkers, but we don't have that here, thankfully (so far I like the people here (which doesn't mean I won't lynch you if you're scum ).

Spoiler:

There should be no real need to change your behavior, moreso if you think said behavior would help you catch scum easier.

If you want more examples of my play, there is a button labeled "Wiki" under my Avatar (look on the left of my post). You'll see my play varies from game to game - meta cases can be useful, but don't rely on them. BTW, this brings me to useful tools! Which will be its own post.

Spoiler:

I can agree that, by looking at previous games, you can potentially spot patterns of play in a user. However, I feel that in this situation it would not prove to be useful.

And I am interested to hear your explanation of these useful tools.

[Mhi200]

Sorry guys, been a hell of a busy weekend. SO heres whats going to happen: I'll rush in and say something stupid while trying to catch up, and you'll lynch me =)

But in all seriousness, FoS Zensei for those initial posts, will hold vote because of ^

[Voidedmafia]

Sorry guys, been a hell of a busy weekend. SO heres whats going to happen: I'll rush in and say something stupid while trying to catch up, and you'll lynch me =)

But in all seriousness, FoS Zensei for those initial posts, will hold vote because of ^

Spoiler:

So, if I'm reading this correctly, you are FoS-ing him for what I objected to, but are not voting because of GreyICE's read on him?

[Sarg338]

Sorry guys, been a hell of a busy weekend. SO heres whats going to happen: I'll rush in and say something stupid while trying to catch up, and you'll lynch me =)

But in all seriousness, FoS Zensei for those initial posts, will hold vote because of ^

Spoiler:

So, if I'm reading this correctly, you are FoS-ing him for what I objected to, but are not voting because of GreyICE's read on him?

I think he is FoS'ing him and not voting because he has to re-read the thread and catch up. The "^" was pointing to his second sentence I believe.

Needs moar Zensei votes guis!

[Voidedmafia]

Spoiler:

I know you're eager to get him lynched, Sarg. But I'm not going to move just yet.

Also, does anyone know what his avatar is from?

[mb53]

Sarg, your case on Zensei is terrible.

His very first post accuses Voided of not "catching scum", only 1 1/2 pages in. It was also his VERY FIRST POST, so you could say he was doing the same thing he was accusing Voided of.

No, he is trying to catch scum by accusing voided...

His second post is also all questions, directed at Voided. No content or his thoughts on anyone, just questions. Why not make a post explaining any thoughts YOU have instead of asking everyone else?

Asking questions is a good thing...

Bam. Case destroyed.

[Sarg338]

Sarg, your case on Zensei is terrible.

His very first post accuses Voided of not "catching scum", only 1 1/2 pages in. It was also his VERY FIRST POST, so you could say he was doing the same thing he was accusing Voided of.

No, he is trying to catch scum by accusing voided...

His second post is also all questions, directed at Voided. No content or his thoughts on anyone, just questions. Why not make a post explaining any thoughts YOU have instead of asking everyone else?

Asking questions is a good thing...

Bam. Case destroyed.

Scum buddy, eh?

k

[Voidedmafia]

Spoiler:

I believe his point is is that he should've asked me his questions AND put down thoughts of his own, and not just simply question me, which should have been pretty obvious in the 2nd quote in your post.

So, I don't think the case is destroyed just yet.

Spoiler:

However, Sarg, you could've said more than just that. Why not explain why his post wrong, even if it seems like you shouldn't need to?

[Sarg338]

However, Sarg, you could've said more than just that. Why not explain why his post wrong, even if it seems like you shouldn't need to?

PUT YOUR HANDS UP, FUN POLICE!

I kid. He's pretty much putting words in my mouth. I never said asking questions was WRONG, but not putting his thoughts together isn't helping the town catch scum either. It gives off the vibe that he knows who is town and who is scum, and he's just asking question to see who other people think are scum, and to jump on that.

And, as we all know, the only way to know who town and scum are is if you are, in fact, scum. Hence the vote.

And again, accusing someone of not catching scum 1.5 pages in? Really? Pretty sure we were still in the RVS, or JUST got out of it, at that time.

[mb53]

Ok, here we go. ISO of sarg.

0. Intro
1-9. Fluffy.
10. Addresses ICE's meta, but doesn't elaborate on his thoughts of it later.
11.

How can someone be "filled to the brim" (I.E. Full) with scum if there are only 2 scum? 2/5 isn't filled to the brim

12. Unvote
13. Woohoo a little bit of content.
14-15. Calls snowjordan out for FoS
16. BS case
17. Pushes for votes on zen
18. Stupid accusation.

Fluff and a terrible case. Thats enough to earn my vote.

Vote: Sarg

Preview edit:

I never said asking questions was WRONG, but not putting his thoughts together isn't helping the town catch scum either. It gives off the vibe that he knows who is town and who is scum, and he's just asking question to see who other people think are scum, and to jump on that.

You don't seem to understand the point of questions. You ask people them. Then you decide whether how they respond is pro-town or not.

And again, accusing someone of not catching scum 1.5 pages in? Really? Pretty sure we were still in the RVS, or JUST got out of it, at that time.

Fluff

really

doesn't help town.

[Sarg338]

Man, that case is ALMOST as good as mine.

Almost...

[Voidedmafia]

Spoiler:

MB! You're avoiding the issue!

Our beef with Zensei is that his post was that he only asked questions and nothing else! In fact, it wasn't until ISO #2 when he was responding to GreyICE that he had more content than just questions.

Spoiler:

The rest of his posts are pretty much fluff, other than an explanation and another question for me. He has focused only on me pretty much the entire time except for that response to ICE, actually.

[Mhi200]

I never said asking questions was WRONG, but not putting his thoughts together isn't helping the town catch scum either. It gives off the vibe that he knows who is town and who is scum, and he's just asking question to see who other people think are scum, and to jump on that.

I agree with this. I think Zensei's entry was too abrupt as well, as if he was trying to make up for lost time. With only 2 Mafia, they have to be active.