The Mafia with the Hydras - Game Over!

[Fate]

K that's cute Faraday but until you refute an ACTUAL analogy you need to take the same dose of STFU as GreyICE.

So let me ask this:

Mafia112 ends, in that game I was lynched for lying as town, counter-claiming a cop as a vanilla. I DISCUSS My motivations for said gambit in that game. RayFROST is in that game.
This mafia is still going on, I counter-claim RayFrost as a vanilla. RayFrost says "WALP, I think Fate is town due to the concversation we had after 112"

Game state broken?
NOPE.

[Lord Gurgi]

Fate please stop posting.

[Fate]

K /thread, GG, everything's over,

OH WAIT ID LIKE TO ACTUALLY DISCUSS THE GAME.


You don't need to read this thread, not like I felt you read it in the fuckin first place, so why do you care?

[Lord Gurgi]

See, when I do a postgame, it's the part of the game where you discuss calmly and without prejudice. Not when you continue to scream at people who all agree that you are a deranged fool. Nobody wants to hear what you have to say, no one ever did. So just go elsewhere.

[GreyICE]

Its no different than talking to GreyICE outside of the game and realizing he's a pathological liar.

...

What?

I'm really fucking curious about this one. Are you just needling me? Because outside of Mafia games I've told the truth pretty much everywhere on this site.

[Incognito]

@Ether: I don't really see how that's idiotic given the game-state that was going on at the time that was said. I mean, if you were put in the position I was in, do you really think you might have still been reading Yos as town at that point given everything that was going on at that time? It's easy to say Yos was being tunnel-visioned when you know his alignment, but I don't think it's as easy when you're just going off of things based on reads and such.

[Fate]

Its was just an analogy with no real basis in reality, aka anyone's name could've been substituted.

I do enjoy the reaction though <3

[Faraday]

I liked you explaining how you succeed in life to me. Felt like we bonded there Fate.

Like, I'm obviously not going to change your mind, and it doesn't really matter to me, I just think you couldn't be more wrong.

[Fate]

So agree to disagree on the integrity of games?

Ok <3

[GreyICE]

Its was just an analogy with no real basis in reality, aka anyone's name could've been substituted.

I do enjoy the reaction though <3

I actually do kind of take pride in the fact that I don't lie about out of game stuff or myself. I might not say anything about a subject, but I won't lie.

I've never taken a fake VLA, I've never faked an illness or sickness as a reason I wasn't posting (the one time I said I was sick I was running a fever of ~102 for about a week and vomiting on and off), I've never lied about my age, gender, or anything I'm doing outside of game.

Everything IN a game is, as they say, fair game.

[Fate]

Cool story, like I said it wasn't something I was stating as fact or opinion

[Ether]

@Ether: I don't really see how that's idiotic given the game-state that was going on at the time that was said. I mean, if you were put in the position I was in, do you really think you might have still been reading Yos as town at that point given everything that was going on at that time? It's easy to say Yos was being tunnel-visioned when you know his alignment, but I don't think it's as easy when you're just going off of things based on reads and such.

I have no problem with you updating your reads, and I won't deny that my defenses of Yosarian's mindset are mostly because I like him too much to come out and say that he was being a complete buffoon.

My issue is that you took what was explicitly stated to be a town read, and interpretted that as a point against him.

[GreyICE]

Cool story, like I said it wasn't something I was stating as fact or opinion

I may be arrogant. But you getting off criticizing me on that is something.

[Fate]

Do you deny that you had doubt about Yosarian's alignment? Even for a moment?

Because if you did, then me and PC took something that ACTUALLY happened (aka we didn't just make something up that you never believed) and used it according to the rest of our reads, and there was nothing wrong with that.

You didn't explicitly state him to be town, you said, "I guess" and that struck me.

[Faraday]

So agree to disagree on the integrity of games?

Ok <3

Sure, not like it's usually an issue anyway.

[GreyICE]

Uh... no. I'd say by the end of day 2 I was pretty certain of Yosarian's alignment.

I was wrong, but I was certain. I could not fathom him being town in any reality. I still have trouble reading this thread and wrapping my head around the concept of town-Yosarian.

[Ether]

Yeah, see. The default position is

neutral

. If I say that I think Yosarian is town, disclaimers or not, then that means I think that he's been acting in a manner that implies he is town. (Furthermore, this post was like half a week into the game, and we continued to cement our town read on Yosarian later.)

You can be ignorant all you want, but please don't drag my rotting corpse into it. If you're going to use my views as a springboard, kindly use views I

actually had.

[Fate]

What am I being ignorant about?

You had Yos as town, but only slightly from what I had. I didn't USE your views as a springboard, as I said. I took my Yosscum read, saw something that supported it, and added it to my case.

Continue dancing around commenting on the fact that Yos' play this game was very subpar at best though...

[AGar]

Ugh, this game was a headache. I apologized in our QT, but I pretty much stopped playing after the end of D3. I don't know what conversations happened between Ray and Fate and when, and I don't really care. I more stopped playing because of the fake-cop claim. I still can't wrap my head around that. A thorough explanation would be awesome of what you guys hoped to accomplish.

@GreyICE

Yeah, our post style was bad. I didn't question how genuine your read was, I actually found it pretty townish in the midst of it. I think our game would have gone much smoother had we started as an open hydra instead of an anonymous hydra at first. RayFrost and I have somewhat distinct posting styles, so we felt Equinox was ambiguous enough to keep our identities under wraps. When we came out with the identities, we should have probably shifted the posting style a bit.

D2 was ugh. I should have pushed harder against the Gummy hop, but at the same time, GB was frustrating me to no end. Then D3... D3 was a shitshow, even from the getgo. The vanilla rolecop on FD for me didn't make sense. Fate is generally a loud presence in thread, and likes to play leader. VT is the perfect role for that kind of play, so for their hydra to be playing in the manner they were didn't make sense. Things just snowballed from there.

Honestly, the town was all full of failures. D3 must have been pretty entertaining from the scum point of view, all attention shifted to us, Yos, FD and Daspot at the end.

P-Edit: Fate, the entire fucking town, save for Pathetric, played subpar. You can't point to 1 town slot and say "Yeah, there gameplay was great!" Even PC in that mess of the end of D3 was making huuuuge leaps on things that I couldn't believe to be town.

[AGar]

EBWOP:

their* not there. Fuck English.

[GreyICE]

Gummy was driving me insane as well. I can't say it was a horrible wagon. US was much worse, and that one was partially my fault.

I mean seriously every post was 'catchup soon!' It was horrifying.

[Fate]

Read the dead QT, read mine and AGM's posts. We've seriously explained the gambit a good ten times. I'm not gonna make a power point for you, sorry.


A key mistake was going "Fate's meta is X.... therefore if he's a VT and playing like Y, HE MUST BE SCUM?" This is a hydra game ffs. I explained our activity D2 very well I think: FES was scum, our vote was on scum, he wasn't posting or doing anything to make that read MORE scummy, so there was nothing for us to do except come in and shout for FES to die every once in awhile.

Ever since Yos got stuck in his tunnel, we never woud've been a leader of this town anyway. All it takes is ONE townie misreading me to fuck up leading a town, because alienating the scum that want to mislynch me or not call me town is generally how that works out well, but when there is town PLUS scum throwing doubt on our alignment, we can't just waltz around leading lynches. We lead the lynch on FES and see how that turned out? Yeah.

Yeah everyone made mistakes and played subpar, as is true for EVERY town loss. The thing I was referring to was the way Ether is criticizing ONE thing me and Incog did, and not even fully understanding what we did while criticizing it, and completely ignoring the elephant in the room because of personal ties. Its just unfair.

I'm biased but I didn't really find any faults with PC's game. Cept in the end with his "well Copper wasn't double-bussed" assumption, but that was past the point of no return anyway (specially after MM's incredibly townie approach to the game and Yos' vote fell on deaf ears and scum we're just waiting to QH).

[chesskid3]

loldrama

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Looking back, I definitely played badly Day 1. Heck, I broke my own cardinal rule of playing as scum: "Don't play to make it look like it would if you were town, play to look town." This method works for Shanba but not for me and I shouldn't've gotten caught up in it. So I certainly don't fault YosCayke for that initial town read; he had our thought patterns down pat. Sadly the answer to "why would scum do that?" was that I was too caught up in trying to think like a townie. His real mistake in that matter was not reassessing his town read at a later date since I certainly didn't continue to play like that and Yosarian2 was probably in the best position to notice that I had pretty much taken over the hydra as the days went on due to Shanba's tendency to lose interest as scum.

[Incognito]

I'm biased but I didn't really find any faults with PC's game. Cept in the end with his "well Copper wasn't double-bussed" assumption, but that was past the point of no return anyway (specially after MM's incredibly townie approach to the game and Yos' vote fell on deaf ears and scum we're just waiting to QH).

Even there, I began kicking myself when Mastermate made that amazing post at the start of Day 5; I thought an MM-scum would have just attacked me, but he didn't seem convinced of my guilt, which seemed town. That was the reason I was trying to nudge Yos' vote off of MM so that we could at least discuss things a little. But yeah, it really was the point of no return at that point so oh well.

AND I MAY BE BIASED TOO, but aside from the gambit, I thought FD played pretty well. It's one of those "if only FD claimed Vanilla..." moments though. I really do hope you two realize that the gambit was an awful idea especially considering the inside info you guys had from that AIM conversation; if anything, all of that should have pointed to Balam being definitely town. All that said, you and RayFrost should have went to the mod with that whole thing and asked to be replaced.

Incidentally, I thought the best scum game of the three scums came from Lord Fonzi. I only really started to doubt my read of him when he just said Balam/Yos are town so scum are X, Y, and Z, and he voted Copper immediately after Balam did. It looked lazy to me.