Mini 1130 - A Fishbowl Invasion by Ninja Monkeys! - Over

[Parama]

Okay, it's Page 3, so one scum should be blatantly obvious by now, if not two.

First off, I'd like to draw people's attention to the first post, specifically the part that confirms that there's at least 1 mafia traitor in the game. If people don't realize this, it could hurt, because what it means is that scum may well "bus" a buddy and not have a clue that they're bussing - if a mafia traitor is lynched, and they flip mafia traitor, we need to treat it as a town lynch in terms of VCA.

That aside...

Vote: Sundy

Sundy? More like scummy.

I hope to god this was an RVS joke, because if you were actually serious...

VOTE: [winger]
mafia always seem to be around entrant 10
that and you need to confirm :/

Another fake "serious" reason to vote... in RVS? This one's not quite as bad as crazy's, but still.
DH is obvtown already.
sordros too.
[winger] #33 - Double RVS-ing tends to be a solid scumtell, since there's no point to it. You RVS for pressure - why would you destroy reasonless pressure on one person to push reasonless pressure on another?

Actually, you know what? Neither would AGar's.

Unvote, Vote: crazypianist

Lol

Lemme complete this post:
"Lol you're voting me for no reason so I should have to acknowledge your post but because I'm scum I'm incredibly paranoid about votes and thus feel I must acknowledge the vote"
You left a whole lot out, crazy. Why?
Reading every post from that point on, lol one scum's already flailing.

unvote, vote: crazy

P.S. - Notice the "ex" in "ex-roommate" Parama.

In that case, I am completely offending the Slovenians. Let the geese usurp them for all I care, those bastards! Death to Slovenia! Power to Mad Geese!
Hmm, [winger]'s jumping a bit early on the crazy wagon to be scum with him IMO. And since crazy is scum, that means [winger] probably isn't scum.

THE LIST OF AWESOME POWER:
DH
sordros
[winger]

THE LIST OF DIE PLZ:
crazy
Twisted

I expect a lynch in no more that 24 hours, thanks in advance.

[Parama]

crapplesauce, I already forgot about the traitor >.< [winger] COULD be scum if crazy's the traitor, but not vice-versa.

[Riceballtail]

UNVOTE; VOTE:Cecily

Also a serious vote.

[[winger]]

What exactly is a traitor? I've never played with this role before.

[[winger]]

Oops, nevermind, just saw there's a full role PM in the first post. So basically, it's just a mafia member who isn't a part of the mafia. Do they know who mafia are?

[Riceballtail]

A traitor is a Mafia member of whom does not communicate with the mafia, nor can make a NK. This changes if he is recruited successfully by the team with a night action, at which point he becomes a regular goon. He still counts as though he was part of the scum team, but has no benefits thereof.

Usually a traitor knows who the mafia are.

[Oso]

UNVOTE: Parama
VOTE: [winger]

I disagree/agree with you on him, Parama. Double RVSing is the point I agree with. Giving him a pass, not so much.

You bring up a good point about crazypianist though. Have to see where that goes because from what I can tell, [winger] was the first to attack him on "lol"ing DH's vote. But for the moment, crazy doesn't look great, but not voteworthy.

At the risk of being accused of overthinking without enough info, winger attacked here::

...
Not at all, AGar. I just thought the response "lol" to someone who placed the second vote on pianist was a bit too lackadaisical.

DemonHybrid already pointed it out

... it seemed very much like crazypianist did have a problem with that vote, which makes me wonder

why she lied

about it.

Language is too strong for this early in the game, in my opinion [second bold part].

Apparent contradiction in the first bold part. DemonHybrid did point that out in Post - 41 but [winger] first mentioned it in Post - 39. [winger]'s post make it look like DH mentioned it first, in my opinion, and that [winger] is just building off that.

[Parama]

I give [winger] a pass because he's not scum traitor to crazypianist mafia, though the inverse could be true. Unless the traitor doesn't know their mafia, which would be just plain unfair.
But there are 2 scenarios where crazy can be scum, and [winger] can only be scum in one of those. I'm pretty sure that makes crazy a better vote.
Plus, [winger] isn't flailing scum like crazy is, AND he's voting the flailing scum. If he's scum, he's helping us anyways
Also I'm tired of putting brackets around [winger]'s name, so I'mma refer to him as [] from now on

[Oso]

Me too. I think I'll just go with winger from now on if he doesn't mind.

[Oso]

(Double post, reread some)

@crazy, I'd like to add my own curiosity to this:

Calling your bluff.

Um...

What bluff? I like my vote on you now.

(those are consecutive posts: Posts 42/43)

What bluff?

[DemonHybrid]

Oso, you make a lot of good points after rereading; the winger suspicion is completely valid in my eyes.

However, since I'm not going to worry about setup speculation yet though with this traitor business, and crazy seems a bit more obvious to me at the moment, I'm not going to vote winger. I'm quite happy with crazy's panic and I want more information from him and, right now, his death. But I just wanted to mention that I agree, just not to the extent that you believe, so consider my eye on him.

[Twistedspoon]

I hope to god this was an RVS joke, because if you were actually serious

Of course it was an RVS joke

you didn't take me seriously did you

[Cecily]

Thanks RBT, thanks.

I was out for the weekend, so I'm pretty lost now as to what the real arguments are versus the RVS ones, but I'm liking the case against crazy - it does seem like he jumped into it a little too soon to be trustworthy.

And just so I get my RVS spin on it... pianists are notoriously obnoxious.

vote: crazypianist

[Bub Bidderskins]

Unvote; Vote: [winger]

Winger, why did you vote, unvote, and then re-vote?

As for the traitor, it will only really come into play once later in the game when we're looking for buddy tells. Right now we don't have any confirmed scum, so we have to look for individual tells, such as winger's double voting in the RVS.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Wait, come to think of it...

DH, why did you vote twice in the RVS?

[Parama]

@RBT: Why are you voting a person who, at the time of your vote, had only posted once?
@Cecily: You appear to not have a clue why people are voting crazypianist. Tell me why he's scum, please. In your own words.
@Bub: Have you read/understand the points against crazypianist? Do you agree with them?

[DemonHybrid]

Wait, come to think of it...

DH, why did you vote twice in the RVS?

Because I felt like I RVS voted the wrong person and no information would come of it.

[Twistedspoon]

Unvote; Vote: [winger]

you probably already know this, and excuse me if you do, but just in case

a) Votes must be bolded

oh, and I'll re-read the Crazypianist argument again in a second.

[[winger]]

Parama/Oso, what is so bad about double voting randomly? This is my first game on this site, so you'll have to enlighten me a bit. I read through a few games here before I started this one, but I didn't see this being an issue there.

Language is too strong for this early in the game, in my opinion [second bold part].

Why? She directly contradicted herself. At what point in the game does it stop being "too early" to use the word "lie"? This is an arbitrary attack on me.

Apparent contradiction in the first bold part. DemonHybrid did point that out in Post - 41 but [winger] first mentioned it in Post - 39. [winger]'s post make it look like DH mentioned it first, in my opinion, and that [winger] is just building off that.

No… that's not what I said at all. When I said "DemonHybrid already pointed it out", I meant that there was no need to show the glaring contradiction, because DemonHybrid already had pointed it out. I asked pianist the question originally to gauge her response, because it felt like she had a problem with the attack on her, so I was going to dig at that a bit. However, then she said she didn't, and it caused me to switch my vote back to her, because I found that scummy.

Winger, why did you vote, unvote, and then re-vote?

Huh? My votes have gone like this:
Random vote on crazypianist
Random vote on Oso because I liked Bub's silly reasoning better (the whole acronym thing)
Serious vote back on crazypianist after her awful reaction to my question

Can someone please explain why voting randomly twice is such a bad thing?

That seems to be the point of what people are saying against me, and I don't even understand.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Unvote; Vote: [winger]

you probably already know this, and excuse me if you do, but just in case

a) Votes must be bolded

Oops! I could have sworn I bolded it. Thanks for pointing that out.

Vote: [winger]

Because I felt like I RVS voted the wrong person and no information would come of it.

Fair enough.

Can someone please explain why voting randomly twice is such a bad thing?

Because random voting twice defeats the purpose of random voting to begin with. The idea of the RVS is to get an early wagon going. Once you get a wagon, you can gauge other player's reactions to that wagon. Random voting somebody, and then random voting somebody else defeats that purpose. Also, see Parama's response:

[winger] #33 - Double RVS-ing tends to be a solid scumtell, since there's no point to it. You RVS for pressure - why would you destroy reasonless pressure on one person to push reasonless pressure on another?

@Bub: Have you read/understand the points against crazypianist? Do you agree with them?

Yep, I read them. The reason I didn't post my thoughts on it earlier was because I wanted answers from DH and winger dealing with the RVS first.

On the whole, I agree with most of the points made, with the exception of:

That aside...

Vote: Sundy

Sundy? More like scummy.

I hope to god this was an RVS joke, because if you were actually serious...

His vote was 'meh' and it wasn't any worse than most other RVS votes are.

However, the other points you brought up were good. Crazypianist's actions seem strange at best. Why say 'lol' to a random vote? What was the joke? And then that nonsense about calling DH's bluff.

Crazy is either a paraniod mafioso or a townie that takes things way to serious.

@Crazypianist: Why were laughing out loud at DH's RVS vote?

[[winger]]

Because random voting twice defeats the purpose of random voting to begin with. The idea of the RVS is to get an early wagon going. Once you get a wagon, you can gauge other player's reactions to that wagon. Random voting somebody, and then random voting somebody else defeats that purpose. Also, see Parama's response:

Okay, that makes more sense. I thought people just voted randomly until someone did something scummy. I didn't realize the point was to build a wagon/apply pressure.

If that's the case, and me double voting like I did, does that say anything about the connection between me/Oso or me/crazypianist? Or is it an individual tell?

[Oso]

..
Why?

She directly contradicted herself.

At what point in the game does it stop being "too early" to use the word "lie"? This is an arbitrary attack on me.
..

Umm....where? And it's too early to use the word "lie" when there is no lie. I've seen the points against crazypianist and while I do think there may be something useful there (which might be a stretch even for my imagination, only 4 posts), at no point has she either lied that I can see, nor has she contradicted herself.

[Oso]

EBWOP

Apologies crazy. I just noticed your avatar has "male" under it. Sorry for calling you "she".

[crazypianist1116]

1. I'm a guy.
2. DemonHybrid, your vote was not random. Your bluff was that you were clearly trying to get someone you saw as a noob to crack under pressure that didn't really exist. Your "wagon" didn't really have a reason.
3. Parama you seem to enjoy putting words in my mouth that weren't there. I was laughing at DH for reasons above. I don't really get why he's voting me, or why he thinks I'm panicking. Furthermore, he's not going to get any more info from me if I die, so I don't see why he's advocating for my death if he wants info from me.
Cecily could you explain your post a bit more, I don't get what I jumped into too soon.

[[winger]]

Oso, crazypianist contradicted himself (in my opinion) when he said he did not have a problem with the vote on him. That directly contradicts the tone set by the (what I'd consider) hostile/sarcastic "Lol" response he gave previously.

2. DemonHybrid, your vote was not random. Your bluff was that you were clearly trying to get someone you saw as a noob to crack under pressure that didn't really exist. Your "wagon" didn't really have a reason.

I'm uh... I'm just gonna wait for his response to this one.