Mini 1130 - A Fishbowl Invasion by Ninja Monkeys! - Over


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Post Post #750 (ISO) » Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:35 am

Post by Akira »

LOL

Anyway I agree with Parama on Bub's weird night choices, so I hope you've learnt your lesson. But you played well during the day so it all worked out in the end.
AGar wrote:Why... didn't Mae SAY ANYTHING
QFT
The town would have had two scum down by D3. And still two watchers.

Anyway it was a lot of fun, even though I missed most of it.
And I loved the flavor. I'll go nominate it right away, make sure you do the same.
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Post Post #751 (ISO) » Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:45 am

Post by Akira »

PS: Sorry for fucking up on D1. :P
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Post Post #752 (ISO) » Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:08 am

Post by Maemuki »

I...didn't expect being killed on N2.

Nobody caught my breadcrumb though which makes me RAEGGGGGG
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Post Post #753 (ISO) » Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:18 am

Post by Sundy »

Bub Bidderskins wrote:I admit, I totally screwed up the night game.
Ditto this
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Post Post #754 (ISO) » Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:31 am

Post by AGar »

Maemuki wrote:I...didn't expect being killed on N2.

Nobody caught my breadcrumb though which makes me RAEGGGGGG
You had scum in a game with a confirmed mafia traitor present. That meant a high likelihood of a 2-man main mafia team. You shouldn't have waited at all, whether you expected to die or not.

Also - why was everyone so convinced of a 3-man scumteam PLUS a traitor. I'm still baffled by that, I was pretty sure there was no way that NRG would let a 4-man scumteam possibly arise in a mini normal.
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Post Post #755 (ISO) » Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:32 am

Post by AGar »

EBWOP:

That sounded really dickish, sorry. The point was that you had scum caught, and 1-for-1 in that situation is ALWAYS a good call.
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Post Post #756 (ISO) » Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:36 am

Post by Oso »

Maemuki wrote:I...didn't expect being killed on N2.

Nobody caught my breadcrumb though which makes me RAEGGGGGG
Um, how to say this nicely :)

At least a suspicion or two cast Bub's direction might have helped someone pick up the breadcrumb or maybe make the breadcrumb a bit more obvious. Something like:

"Hey doodz, I got scum in the open right here. I watched him kill winger last night...."


Hell, I'm pretty sure even I'd have picked up on it if it were phrased like that. :D

Seriously though, you played it the way you thought you should have. That it didn't work out is just the way mafia works sometimes.

Thanks, Engima for the game. Very good flavor and entertaining to read. And thanks to all the players. It may be a town loss but the game was fun in any case.

@Bub. :eek:
My Uncle always use'ta say, 'You can't get no blood from a turnip.' .... He'd say the same thing about gettin' it from a stone, too.
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I never said nothin' back to him. You don't want mess with no freak that's searchin' around that hard for blood.
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Post Post #757 (ISO) » Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:38 am

Post by Twistedspoon »

Oso wrote: Thanks, Engima for the game. Very good flavor and entertaining to read. And thanks to all the players. It may be a town loss but the game was fun in any case.
this

Enigma was an awesome mod

and I see your navel ideas were included too oso :wink:

anyaways, this was a great cast of players and I look forwards to our future games :]

Club goldfish; that's us
1 Thessalonians 5:21: Test everything, but hold fast onto what is good

"Murder is no better than cards if cards can do the trick"
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Post Post #758 (ISO) » Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:39 am

Post by Twistedspoon »

oh, and the dead QT is a hoot
Especially Oso

I recommend it :]
1 Thessalonians 5:21: Test everything, but hold fast onto what is good

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Post Post #759 (ISO) » Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:40 am

Post by Oso »

AGar wrote:
Maemuki wrote:..
Also - why was everyone so convinced of a 3-man scumteam PLUS a traitor. I'm still baffled by that, I was pretty sure there was no way that NRG would let a 4-man scumteam possibly arise in a mini normal.
For my part, I wasn't convinced that there were 3 men + traitor. I did start to consider it though when the traitor ended up NKed. Like Parama, from the way I would have played it, the traitor wouldn't have been killed by accident after N1. N1 might have been a blind shot at a suspected strong townie that got the traitor instead. ANy NK of the traitor after that would have had to been deliberate and that only makes sense in a 3 man goon squad.

It made no sense in this particular game though.
My Uncle always use'ta say, 'You can't get no blood from a turnip.' .... He'd say the same thing about gettin' it from a stone, too.
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I never said nothin' back to him. You don't want mess with no freak that's searchin' around that hard for blood.
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Post Post #760 (ISO) » Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:42 am

Post by Oso »

Quote fail, how did Mae's name get into Agar's quote?
My Uncle always use'ta say, 'You can't get no blood from a turnip.' .... He'd say the same thing about gettin' it from a stone, too.
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I never said nothin' back to him. You don't want mess with no freak that's searchin' around that hard for blood.
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Post Post #761 (ISO) » Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:46 am

Post by AGar »

Oso wrote:
AGar wrote:
Maemuki wrote:..
Also - why was everyone so convinced of a 3-man scumteam PLUS a traitor. I'm still baffled by that, I was pretty sure there was no way that NRG would let a 4-man scumteam possibly arise in a mini normal.
For my part, I wasn't convinced that there were 3 men + traitor. I did start to consider it though when the traitor ended up NKed. Like Parama, from the way I would have played it, the traitor wouldn't have been killed by accident after N1. N1 might have been a blind shot at a suspected strong townie that got the traitor instead. ANy NK of the traitor after that would have had to been deliberate and that only makes sense in a 3 man goon squad.

It made no sense in this particular game though.
I guess that makes sense then, yeah. I still don't think it would make the cut as "normal" but the line of thinking makes sense.
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Post Post #762 (ISO) » Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:50 am

Post by Oso »

Yeah, and this may be hindsight talking but in Bub's position, after losing my only known partner D1, I might have even
seriously
considered not killing N1 so as to not accidentally kill the traitor. There are not many times that not killing N1 makes sense but this would have been one of them.
My Uncle always use'ta say, 'You can't get no blood from a turnip.' .... He'd say the same thing about gettin' it from a stone, too.
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Post Post #763 (ISO) » Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:53 am

Post by Twistedspoon »

Naw, I would have still killed N1

especially winger cause he claimed doc
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Post Post #764 (ISO) » Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:09 am

Post by Oso »

Hindsight again, but in this game, that should have been the exact wrong thing to do.

2 men down to 1 man after the lynch and it is N1. If you(Bub in this case) are tagged by a cop(gunsmith/thief type roles could be just as damning as well), then no help for that as there is nothing that can be done.

You can however, minimize your exposure to other PR types by not killing.

Watcher: Probably will be (and was in this game) watching the most visible target. BAD if you kill that target.

Tracker: Tracks you to the kill (if the tracker targets you[Bub]) BAD if you kill winger. Still bad, but not automatically fatal, if he tracks you to a recruit candidate as nothing is going to happen to that person. There is wiggle room if the tracker calls you out as to why you were moving about at night especially if the target of your night action doesn't die.

This game it does cast some suspicion because we know there is a traitor and mafia can be targeting someone in a non-lethal manner BUT you have a decent range of town PRs you can claim to cover for moving around.

Again, I'm not sure how much of this thinking is what I would have had done if I had been in Bub's position and how much is influenced by hindsight though.
My Uncle always use'ta say, 'You can't get no blood from a turnip.' .... He'd say the same thing about gettin' it from a stone, too.
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Post Post #765 (ISO) » Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:10 pm

Post by Enigma »

Thanks for the nomination Akira! Flavor is quite difficult to write and everyone telling me you enjoyed it was enough motivation ;)
I looked at some of the other flavor nominations, god some mods write ridiculous amounts. I should have the last 2 flavor bits in, (as I finally handed up the 4 assignments which were due between friday last week, and monday this week). I'll post here to let you know when it's done.

When I created this setup I had a few things in mind, keep in mind that this made when minis were 12p, we just decided to add another VT.

Mafia have a ridiculous win rate in mini normals, I wanted a challenging game for mafia.
I didn't want the boring roleblocker on the mafia team. It's a joke when townies claim PR, it's just lolprblock haha, I wanted them to work around it.
I didn't want games where all the mafia lurk and avoid getting attention to themselves, hence the role of the traitor.
I wanted mafia to think about their night actions with great consequences for failing (derp), being able to kill the traitor adds a degree of complexity to how they should play.

There were three watchers in the game.
I made the traitor a watcher too, to give the town watcher some protection in the game. As the scum know the traitor is a watcher, they should be hesitant to kill it right away. Instead this adds another layer of complexity into night actions with multiple people possibly targetting the watcher for various reasons.
Two watchers is very strong, but we had to take into account the possibility of multiple counter claims. Not only could this expose most of the town PR's, town could mislynch several times if they didn't believe the claim, while also making the task of the scum's play much more difficult.

Finally, I despise having such a boring setup like cop, doc, roleblocker, godfather or some close variant of that. I wanted something different, something exciting for players to play.

I hope you guys understand a bit of what I wanted with this setup. I think it was balanced in a sense, but still had quite a swingy component to it, but players had much more control as to how swingy it was.

I'm surprised scum won after how the game played out earlier. I actually sent a sad PM to Hoopla all sad after N1, when I realized bub had been caught by the watcher since the traitor can't NK unless recruited, as I didn't really expect scum to be down D1 and D2, with her responding games need to be designed for extremes, taking into account multiple bad coincidences.

@Bub, I think your night play could have been much more thoughtful.
I mean you like killed your traitor, tried to recruit a claimed VT (when I specifically said traitor is a watcher comeon....), nor was I a fan of the kill on winger, pretty obvious and thoughtless night thinking there and easy to outguess. But then you won out at LYLO, so not a bad job overall.
FYI, you received one guilty from Mae, and nearly another one from Sundy with your kill on twistedspoon.... why didn't you kill the claimed watcher???

Finally, the dead QT is a very good read, I strongly suggest anyone who doesn't have access to it and wishes to enlighten themselves a bit PM me asking for the link.

Maybe more to come later. Ciao.
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Post Post #766 (ISO) » Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:39 pm

Post by Bub Bidderskins »

Now I see why some people wanted the dead thread kept quiet (read: away from me); that kind of language would have offended a more offensible soul.
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Post Post #767 (ISO) » Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:22 pm

Post by Oso »

Yeah, you did get ripped up pretty well in there. Even by your non-teammates.
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Post Post #768 (ISO) » Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:38 pm

Post by Bub Bidderskins »

Actually, I'm kind of glad they chewed me out over it because if they hadn't, I would be patting myself on my back right now after such a "great" scum win, and would probably continue my poor play. Every game for me is a learning experience, and I try to get better every game. This game my scum day game was far superior to my previous scum games, but as a result of me not getting lynched in the first few days my night game was tested, and it failed miserably. Now I feel like the next time I get a scum PM I'll be able to play a great game.
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Post Post #769 (ISO) » Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:14 pm

Post by AGar »

Bub Bidderskins wrote:Actually, I'm kind of glad they chewed me out over it because if they hadn't, I would be patting myself on my back right now after such a "great" scum win, and would probably continue my poor play. Every game for me is a learning experience, and I try to get better every game. This game my scum day game was far superior to my previous scum games, but as a result of me not getting lynched in the first few days my night game was tested, and it failed miserably. Now I feel like the next time I get a scum PM I'll be able to play a great game.
^

This is :goodposting: after the game.

Bub, your night choices were suboptimal yeah. Your day play was really good though, I will admit. Up until the LYLO I didn't really begin to suspect you and even then... I couldn't mount a case more than WIFOM NK-submissions and such. Some luck broke on your side, especially with Mae not coming out with the guilty, but your day play is better than a lot of scum I've seen lately.
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Post Post #770 (ISO) » Fri May 13, 2011 5:31 pm

Post by Papa Zito »

fin.
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