Open 293 - Donner Party Mafia, Take Two (Game Over)

[Magua]

Vote Count 1.2

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

lane0168 (4): Friend, andrew94, MagnaofIllusion, DemonHybrid

DemonHybrid (3): drmyshottyizsik, singersigner, pappums rat
drmyshottyizsik (2): DeathRowKitty, tclawren

Not voting (3): Twistedspoon, mockingjaye, lane0168

Deadline is March 30th, 2011, at 7:24pm EST (site time). A countdown to the deadline is here.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Friend

- having seen the handy dandy vote count I have a question -

Why are you parking your ostensible RVS joke vote on someone you think is Town when they have an actual wagon?

[DeathRowKitty]

I'm actually kind of surprised mafia have day talk, considering only one of them is given the role of the mafia night kill.

Can you explain the bolded because you lost me completely in the undergrowth there …

Did I word it badly? I was referring to the fact that only the goon submitting the kill finds out the role of the dead player. It seems strange to me that mafia have day talk because it means the second goon finds out immediately.

It seems like you're getting lost in trying to find motivation where there's only mindset.

Can you explain the difference and why one is valid scum-hunting but the other isn’t please?

I'm 0/2 on wording here, aren't I? I meant that you're looking at his posts and thinking "he said this because he's scum looking for town cred" or whatnot, but right now it looks to me like he's an excited new player going "ooooh, shiny! *post*".

In terms of what I disagree with in your case on lane....well, I disagree with most of it. I think most of it is looking at things he's said that are scummy in certain circumstances and saying they're scummy in this particular case. But that's just my take on things.

What's your current opinion on tcl?

[Friend]

@Magna - Good point, although in my defense the wagon grew from 2 to 4 during my time at school.

UNVOTE: Lane
VOTE: DemonHybrid

I feel like this is a better wagon. DH's case is basically "uhh what Magna said" and it seems to me like he's just picking on easy targets.

[mockingjaye]

-if moi is scum, you are all royally butt fucked. I can see why he gets killed night 1, i feel he should probably get lynched day 1 in just as many games. If he is good at town he is good at scum. I would be terrified of him regardless of my alignment.

Interesting use of pronouns here. Why do you say "YOU will all be royally butt fucked" and not "WE"? Also, you say you WOULD be terrified of him; does that mean you aren't?

1)moi has sure asked a lot of questions, positioning himself PERFECTLY as an authority figure. Nobody seems to want to question him. As long as he can keep the attention on everyone else, and keep them answering questions, he is headed to a flawless victory
2)all he has done is ask a bunch of questions, even curious as to how much fun sing likes
3)he has come to an absolute crap and wrong conclusion in voting me.
4)nobody wants to question him because he is a good player and will get ripped apart for even trying

So are you saying he's scum, and if so, why aren't you voting for him?

[DeathRowKitty]

That was all you found useful to comment on in your first game-relevant post?

[DemonHybrid]

@Magna - Good point, although in my defense the wagon grew from 2 to 4 during my time at school.

UNVOTE: Lane
VOTE: DemonHybrid

I feel like this is a better wagon. DH's case is basically "uhh what Magna said" and it seems to me like he's just picking on easy targets.

Why do you call lane an "easy target"?

For the record, while I do think lane is scummy, my vote was somewhat of a pressure vote. Failed in a way, since there was absolutely no reaction to it. However, I'm still waiting for lane's response to MoI, then I'll do a full comment.

I probably have a reason for it, but nothing that looks good on paper. It's not strong enough to pursue right now anyway.

After further thought, I might be willing to change my mind on tcl. I still think lane is town though, in addition to Friend.

I'm confused about your Friend read...it's really flipfloppy. In fact, I don't think you've said anything about Friend other than "I think he's *alignment*". Can you explain this further?

[DeathRowKitty]

Eh, not really. I tend to have kind of arbitrary gut reads I don't bother explaining. I actually only mentioned I thought he was town in that second quote because my read had changed.

[DemonHybrid]

...can you say ANYTHING about him with all of this information on the table? o_O

[DeathRowKitty]

I can say that he's likely town.

[DeathRowKitty]

Fine, I'll try digging up posts...

[DeathRowKitty]

Actually, I'm confused now. I think my read on him changes every time I try to read him. So I'll actually be giving you reasons to think he's scummy.

On second thought, no I won't. Most of my reads at this point are almost purely gut and explaining it is counterproductive. I do have one kind of sketchy non-gut tell on him that I don't care to say just because it applies fairly heavily to me when I'm scum.

[singersigner]

DH, why is it not ok that DRK doesn't have substantial "proof" that he feels so-and-so is such alignment, while Andrew sit idly by allowing a "gut" read to suffice. Regardless of how well he can articulate his reads, that should not stop him from trying to expand and offer to the discussion.

I'm having mixed reads on Magna's entrance...I'll get back to you on that.

Lane's an easy target because he's new. That doesn't make him not scum. I approve of his wagon thus far.

MJ's first half of the first post is a good point. The second one is null because, well..."would be" vs "am" isn't the same qualifier as "you" vs "we."

I...can't think of anything else I missed (though I know I did) off the top of my head, especially since most of it is in the page I can see right now). Will be back later. Happy St. Patrick's Day. Drink and be merry. Cheers.

[tclawren]

Magna said

: He posted only twice at 15 and 17. Every single one of your posts aside from your confirm came after his posts, yet this is the first time you’ve even written his name.

When did his play suddenly become suspect to you?

It really didn't suddenly become suspect. When you and DRK brought up the point about the SK questioning, I thought it was a valid point and possibly worth voting for, but I refrained from saying anything because I would not be adding anything new to the table and therefore would just be cluttering the thread with nonessential stuff. But since MoI jumped wagons, I didn't want Shotty to think we had forgotten why there was a wagon on him in the first place.

====

DRK said

: On second thought, no I won't. Most of my reads at this point are almost purely gut and explaining it is counterproductive. I do have one kind of sketchy non-gut tell on him that I don't care to say just because it applies fairly heavily to me when I'm scum.

Are you saying that you won't potentially help the town because it might hinder you in future games? That's just selfish.

[DemonHybrid]

DH, why is it not ok that DRK doesn't have substantial "proof" that he feels so-and-so is such alignment, while Andrew sit idly by allowing a "gut" read to suffice. Regardless of how well he can articulate his reads, that should not stop him from trying to expand and offer to the discussion.

Andrew didn't go back and forth between two reads and state it again and again, pretty needlessly, like DRK did. I'm not saying that's specifically a bad thing...but it's weird. I'm not sure what to make of it

[DeathRowKitty]

@tcl
I don't think it would help enough to merit being said. Scum will look like scum one way or another eventually. Also, use

Code: Select all

[quote="username"]stuff you're quoting[/quote]

to get the nifty "Username said".

The thing in the code box would appear as

stuff you're quoting

[Friend]

I don't think flipflopping on reads is a scumtell either.

[lane0168]

-if moi is scum, you are all royally butt fucked. I can see why he gets killed night 1, i feel he should probably get lynched day 1 in just as many games. If he is good at town he is good at scum. I would be terrified of him regardless of my alignment.

Interesting use of pronouns here. Why do you say "YOU will all be royally butt fucked" and not "WE"? Also, you say you WOULD be terrified of him; does that mean you aren't?

1)moi has sure asked a lot of questions, positioning himself PERFECTLY as an authority figure. Nobody seems to want to question him. As long as he can keep the attention on everyone else, and keep them answering questions, he is headed to a flawless victory
2)all he has done is ask a bunch of questions, even curious as to how much fun sing likes
3)he has come to an absolute crap and wrong conclusion in voting me.
4)nobody wants to question him because he is a good player and will get ripped apart for even trying

So are you saying he's scum, and if so, why aren't you voting for him?

I say YOU because it doesnt take a genius to see the BW going on me here. I also think its pretty hard not to be terrified of him.

MS is so full of shit. If i vote him i will most certainly get "WOW NICE OMGUS"

And if i don't i get "oh so, lack of cofidence eh? don't want to vote"

I didn't vote him because i didn't vote him. and you can take what i have said whichever way you want. I am trying to say it as i see it.
I also didn't vote him cause i can not decide if he is scum playing like the grandmaster of mafia, or if he is town, who's completely mislead. I can only hope he is town.

I am frustrated because if MOI is scum, he is playing you all like a fiddle and it disgusts me.
I am frustrated because if MOI is town, he is certainly searching for tells rather than letting people slip up. I am town. So why is he so confident in my being scum? THAT is the reason for my frustration. If he's so damn good, wtf is he so far off?

I'm going out with my friends. maybe i'll come back wasted and respond to moi directly. that way you will get full disclosure. otherwise i'll be back tomorrow

Oh and as far as my buddy buddy with drk? i'm new, not an idiot. you can stop looking into that bull. if you can't see it was a response to his signature.

VOTE:MOI

as i said, he is either scum playing an ridiculously good game getting you all on his side. or he's town, and at this point he's doing more harm than good.

[Friend]

I think lane is definitely town, and the wagon on him is scumdriven.

[tclawren]

@Friend

I can't tell, is this sarcasm? If not, who do you expect to be scum?

[lane0168]

Why are you voting for me if you are not SURE of my alignment?

1)Because as Town I can never be SURE of anyone’s alignment other than my own. Have you played Mafia before?

You play is scummy enough for me to vote and pursue you at this stage of the game. Scum can and do get caught in the first 3 pages of games.

And mafia's odds of living through night 1, if not lynched day 1, are quite high.

2)Explain why the Mafia’s odds of living through the night are ‘quite’ high if not lynched? I’d like some support for your assertion.

Scum motivation imo? Well... establish yourself as one of the best players so people will immediately be on your side. I feel your style of play is to get peopel to fear you and hence go with whatever you say. if they say something contradictory, they will be castrated. And that would be what i see for motivation. people have said you get killed night 1 a lot. why do you not get killed day 1 a lot? you MUST be scum at SOME point right?

3)Once again establishing myself as ‘the best player’ does me no good from a scum-perspective because regardless there is another Anti-Town faction that would be motivated to remove me since you say I am so influential. Thus that motivation makes zero sense.

Please explain still the town motivation of your comment, if you'll only gonna be good for day 1? are you going to give all of us town who the mafia is on that one day? cause hey man, it'd really be nice to have someone as good as you along throughout to help.

4)Sorry, I’m not going to currently. If it benefits Town to disclose it down the line I will. If not in the post game.

1) what was my reaction? bleh? is that an excess amount of rage, sorrow, or joy? I am not seeing the improportion here. as you have stated, it was only one serious vote, and what Friend said. I do not see "bleh" to be out of proportion

5)That you even felt the need to mention you were being suspected at all and thus have to ‘change your play’ is a reaction above and beyond the norm. You admit yourself the suspicion on you is minimal.

2) Its in the first three pages and i'm saying what i think. AS SOON AS I DO you tell me its scummy. why the fuck woudl i NOT hold back thoughts?

6)You’ve dodge the question. Why wouldn’t you immediately say your suspicions when you first had them? Once again they only came out because “now seeing other people finding me scummy”.

Do you not read the posts fully before you respond? if not, why? If you read the post before mine, the question as already been asked. Also dismissive because that was a FAR stretch to say i was appealing to emotion.

7)I do read them. Your point? Just because Demons asks Andrew a question doesn’t have anything to do with your reaction.

You don’t think the phrase “but seriously? you're high.” is anything but dismissive?

sorry.. i put numbers in your quotes so they are not exact quotes. they are merely to help keep track of my thoughts. i hope you dont mind. btw my st patricks day was the shit!! lol

1) Yes i have played mafia before. in RL. as to everything else... fair enough

2)Well your odds of getting killed night 1 being town are twice as high as being mafia. I myself would consider that being DOUBLE the odds of being killed as mafia. The reason being that if you are town, you have 2 factions trying to kill you, and if you are mafia, you have only one.

3)

I

did not say you are influential. You asserted that yourself in your first post. I also see it being advantageous (is that a word?) for the other anti-town faction keeping you around because there are 9 of us, and only 1 or 2 of you, and only 2 or 1 of them. so why not go against 1 or 2 of you, when compared to 9? if i have the town alignment correct?

4) of course you aren't/will

5) That i had to mention it? playing in real life, i sometimes feel the need to bring some points to light, which is why i pointed out that i was being... questioned? no suspected. cause i've been questioned the entire time just for questioning. and i am sorry, but I myself do not have a "above and beyond the norm" response around here. i can understand other players. but i'm coming in with my own play.d

6)I have read some of the games... not entire games. but plenty of parts. and i have seen people be pointed out, just for the point of stating their opinions too early. i didnt want to be someone voted out. i quickly realized it wasn't to my advantage and thought "shit son, why am I NOT saying what i think?" and therefore decided to say what i think.

7)"but seriously, you're high" is nothing BUT dismissive. we can all agree on that. and because demon asks andrew a question DOES have something to do my reaction. do you think that my asking andrew a question is going to be any different than demon asking him the same question? and if it does than you should look at andrew (i'm not). I felt the issue had been addressed by demon, and therefore responded with my own comic relief.

[andrew94]

alright, lane just looks like flailing.
he hugs and loves everyone that says hes town(blatant buddying) = scum number 1

demon hybrid, says moi explained everything i said, im pretty sure i explained it the same way he did, and he just said it all over again.
= bussing scum number 1

[Twistedspoon]

I am town.

bit early to claim isn't it?

that and flailing and buddying make me feel that I can have some justification in placing my vote at this point in time

VOTE: Lane

[tclawren]

I am town.

bit early to claim isn't it?

that and flailing and buddying make me feel that I can have some justification in placing my vote at this point in time

VOTE: Lane

This is lazy reasoning and definitely not worth putting someone to L-2. He was claiming town alignment. Which is something EVERYONE will do if pushed, or even asked casually. For example if I asked you what alignment you were, you would reply town no matter what alignment you actually were. This is a null tell for me.

So you voted to push someone closer to the gallows on absolutely horrible reasoning. Good job.

Twistedspoon: FOS

[Twistedspoon]

I had my reasons a few pages ago; more than enough to justify a vote then.

anyways, I may unvote if someone's prepared to hammer; It might be slightly too early for that.

It's just that lane's buddying and such make me truly sick. It's just so scummish. It deserves L-2

*thanks drk. i feel you're a real asset to the team, and life would be a bit darker without you

trying to win people over by buddying; not logic is just so scummy. It definately deserves my vote