Newbie 1081: Showdown in Newbtown (Game Over, Mafia win)

[startransmission]

Me? In what way am I backing off? I really don't see it. Was just asking about RVS, as it seems to be a common factor in a game.

I think Bulvious was referring to Fatso.

[Fatso]

Me? In what way am I backing off? I really don't see it. Was just asking about RVS, as it seems to be a common factor in a game.

Um, he was talking to me.
Anyways, my opinion wasn't "I totally hate RVS and I'm never voting in it. EVER." It was "I don't like RVS that much, so I'm not going to vote right off the bat, but if it's really that important to you, I guess I will."

[Antihero]

Vote Count #1

alnkpa - 1 (Fatso)
Banana Stickers - 1 (startransmission)
Fatso - 1 (Bulvious)
h3ll0 - 1 (Zdenek)
lynchking - 1 (h3ll0)
Zdenek - 2 (alnkpa, sarahfish89)

Not Voting: Banana Stickers, lynchking

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch. Deadline is April 12th.

[madenking]

1. Hey guys! This is my first mafia game ever. Complete newb in every sense. I observed a couple games on another forum (werewolf theme), and then found this site to participate in.
2. Favorite band today is Chili Peppers.
3. It's a challenging question to pick a favorite role with my experience. Although, I'm really interested in comparing the dynamics of all the roles.
4. I think I would have a harder time finding scum than convincing others of such.

Vote: Fatso

[Zdenek]

WOOHOO! The thread is unlocked!
Anyways, I don't like RVS very much, so I'm not voting until I see an actual scummy post.

Hey, I just found one! Startransmission said why.

1. What's your Mafia experience?
2. What's your favorite band?
3. What role/alignment do you prefer?
4. Do you find it harder finding scum, or convincing other people that you've found scum (the latter assuming you correctly identified someone as scum)?

1. I've completed around 15 games.
2. I don't really have a favourite, but lately I've been listening to Bob Dylan quite a bit.
3. So far I think I enjoy VT the most.
4. I'll go with convincing others, but I could improve a lot in both areas.

*Sigh* If you insist:
Vote: alnkpa
for being the only person (I think) who has neither posted or been voted for.

LOL appeasement.

Unvote
Vote: Fatso

[Fatso]

Wonderful... A bandwagon on my butt because I said I didn't like RVS, was pushed to vote, and voted...

Hey, I just found one! Startransmission said why.

What are you referring to?

Unvote
Vote: lynchking

Please provide reasoning as to your voting for me.

[Banana Stickers]

Thanks for the birthday wishes! I didn't post yesterday due to it, but back in the saddle now.

In regards to the questions:

1. What's your Mafia experience?

I originally found the game at camp back in my teens. I recently remembered playing, looked online to see if I could figure out what it was, and found this forum. Awesome. This is my third game on site.

2. What's your favorite band?

I don't have a favorite per se, but I like everything from Megadeth to Ben Folds to Daft Punk.

3. What role/alignment do you prefer?

I've only ever been vanilla townie on site. I think a townie power role like cop would be fun.

4. Do you find it harder finding scum, or convincing other people that you've found scum (the latter assuming you correctly identified someone as scum)?

Finding scum by far. Once I narrow it down I can convince people pretty easily - hey, I'm in sales! It's the finding part that's tough.

A bit about my playstyle, also: I generally check the thread and post once per day, and that's it. So if you don't like reading giganto-posts, well, you're not going to like me much. In my previous two games I got berated a bit for hesitating to vote. I used to not throw a vote down until I was, like, 95% sure of scum (so needless to say, very few votes). I will endeavor to maybe bring that down to 75% sure this game.

I see RVS is pretty much over with the storm that's following Fatso's comment. I knew he was going to get jumped allll over for that. I certainly agree that sitting back and coasting through the RVS / RQS is bad news, since less input means less information we have to go on, but I can understand why he might not like RVS. I've been trying to get my husband to try the game, and he just does NOT understand how RVS can work or how it moves into scum discussion. I know he's not the only one that feels that way, and quite frankly everyone that hates random voting gets immediately pointed at. Scumtell - meh. It's just too common in a newbie game.

[Fatso]

And Zdenek, you do realize you put me at L-2 over a disagreement in how the game should be played.

[madenking]

Wonderful... A bandwagon on my butt because I said I didn't like RVS, was pushed to vote, and voted...

Hey, I just found one! Startransmission said why.

What are you referring to?

Unvote
Vote: lynchking

Please provide reasoning as to your voting for me.

There really isn't much reasoning to my vote for you. I think RVS is as good as any strategy right now with the little amount of information we have to go on. However, my vote wasn't random because I felt you should of held your ground and not waiver when confronted. Again, not much to go on, so hopefully this will yield some info next day.

[Fatso]

Well, I've learned a lesson here. Never say anything bad about RVS.

[Bulvious]

Wasn't talking to you, Alnkpa

startransmission wrote:

The potential debate between them interests me greatly.

Before we launch, anything to say about it?

Fatso wrote:

Anyways, my opinion wasn't "I totally hate RVS and I'm never voting in it. EVER." It was "I don't like RVS that much, so I'm not going to vote right off the bat, but if it's really that important to you, I guess I will."

Really, it didn't read as either of those to me. I read it as "I'm not going to put in any valuable input until people address me or are addressed by others."


Lynchking, you voted for Fatso but you didn't say why. We've stated that RVS is over - I know you're new, but when you make a vote you mustmustmust submit or have a reason to make the vote. What is yours? Do you not like fat people? Are you sheeping my vote?

Fatso wrote:

Wonderful... A bandwagon on my butt because I said I didn't like RVS, was pushed to vote, and voted...

Was it that, though? Voting is your primary tool - if it isn't placed, you're not helping the town. Do you understand this now? I understand you were one of the first to post so it's hard to find anything worth commenting on. But then... Why even comment if you don't find anything going on worthwhile? Just to post? That doesn't make sense to me. If you post early, it should be RVS, RQS, intro, or early analysis. That said, I don't disagree at all with your vote on Lynchking even though it does seem sort of OMGUS to me.

BS wrote:

I see RVS is pretty much over with the storm that's following Fatso's comment. I knew he was going to get jumped allll over for that. I certainly agree that sitting back and coasting through the RVS / RQS is bad news, since less input means less information we have to go on, but I can understand why he might not like RVS. I've been trying to get my husband to try the game, and he just does NOT understand how RVS can work or how it moves into scum discussion. I know he's not the only one that feels that way, and quite frankly everyone that hates random voting gets immediately pointed at. Scumtell - meh. It's just too common in a newbie game.

To be truthful, my original vote wasn't a whole lot more than RVS. I figured it was better than voting on someone for profile info, however. In retrospect however, I'm quite happy with my vote. He's proven quite reactive, and thus far he's only made one attempt at scumhunting and that's only after someone sheeped my vote without explanation.

Fatso wrote:

And Zdenek, you do realize you put me at L-2 over a disagreement in how the game should be played.

L-2 isn't really that bad unless two scum aren't voting and they hop on the wagon. Considering an early lynch is not helpful in the least to town, we'd have one or two pretty big scumspects to deal with.
And as far as talking bad about RVS, I've said it multiple times here and I'll say it again. My problem wasn't that you didn't like RVS - that's fine, disagreeing on game theory is usually an OK thing. It was everything that followed that has my eyes on you. You didn't even argue the theory, so why was your prior input useful enough to give? In fact, you backed off. Did you come to agree with me? You certainly didn't say that.

[Fatso]

No, I don't agree with you, but if randomly voting for someone is what it takes to keep you people from mis-lynching me, I'm willing to do it.

Really, it didn't read as either of those to me. I read it as "I'm not going to put in any valuable input until people address me or are addressed by others."

I just don't see how swinging a loaded gun around is "valuable input."

and thus far he's only made one attempt at scumhunting

And how many attempts have others made?

[Bulvious]

Actually, swinging a loaded gun is awesomely good input. I swung it, and you jumped when I wanted you to.

As far as others - I'm not addressing them at the moment. If you want to make a case against someone else then you should do it, however. RVS is a good way to scumhunt at the start of the game - everyone who participated in that without being told to has made contributions to the game. The only reason you're making ANY contribution is because others are addressing you.


And as for your first comment - again, I know you're new so one or two votes is just a HUGE deal for you, but it really isn't. D1, your vote is powerful, and you can use it without much punishment supposing you have a decent enough reason for it. D2, maybe excercise a little more caution, D3 or LYLO, you'd better be careful.

[Fatso]

Unvote

for now. I'm satisfied with lynchking's response.
The only person I'm overtly suspicious of now is you, Bulvious. I don't really understand why you're making such a big deal out of me not liking RVS, and then not liking the fact that I voted when it was practically requested I do so. I have to say, you do seem more super-actively-scumhunting-towny than anything else (from my experience).

[Bulvious]

super-actively-scumhunting-towny

Yes, because that's a horrible thing.

[Fatso]

Wha...? What do you mean? I wasn't saying that was a bad thing.

[Zdenek]

Hey, I just found one! Startransmission said why.

What are you referring to?

Already the RVS provides us an interesting post. Once could argue that Fatso not wanting to engage in the RVS is a sign that he wants to fly under the radar, that he wants to keep his hands clean until later in the game when perhaps a wagon is already built for him to jump on. That might be going a bit far, but it's an example of how the RVS can start dialogue.

I see RVS is pretty much over with the storm that's following Fatso's comment. I knew he was going to get jumped allll over for that. I certainly agree that sitting back and coasting through the RVS / RQS is bad news, since less input means less information we have to go on, but I can understand why he might not like RVS. I've been trying to get my husband to try the game, and he just does NOT understand how RVS can work or how it moves into scum discussion. I know he's not the only one that feels that way, and quite frankly everyone that hates random voting gets immediately pointed at. Scumtell - meh. It's just too common in a newbie game.

This post is coasting through RVS. You answer the questions, tell us about your playstyle, and then this, which is full of unnecessary filler, and you completely ignore the biggest problem with Fatso's play, the appeasement.

And Zdenek, you do realize you put me at L-2 over a disagreement in how the game should be played.

No, I put you at L-2 because your first post failed to move the game forward, and when you were called out on it, you gave up your previous stance and voted.

There really isn't much reasoning to my vote for you. I think RVS is as good as any strategy right now with the little amount of information we have to go on. However, my vote wasn't random because I felt you should of held your ground and not waiver when confronted. Again, not much to go on, so hopefully this will yield some info next day.

So you think we should quick-lynch Fatso?

[startransmission]

Late night at work, will post in the morning. Much comments.

[startransmission]

This post is coasting through RVS. You answer the questions, tell us about your playstyle, and then this, which is full of unnecessary filler, and you completely ignore the biggest problem with Fatso's play, the appeasement.

One quick thing. This is really a matter of opinion, but I really feel the OMGUS vote is far scummier than the folding in to the RVS pressure.

And

that

said I don't find Fatso scummy enough to warrant his wagon going any further at this time.

[alnkpa]

I have the feeling, that Fatso's not really understanding the reasoning behind the accusations on him so let me rephrase and concentrate, mostly for me to have a resumé but for everyone to use:
Mainly, there are two things that may be scumtell-ish:
At first, Fatso was insisting on not to RVS. After Bulvious was mostly RVS-ing him he backed off quite hard reacting a little oversensitive. That could be seen as a scumtell. One could argue that Fatso was trying not to attract attention which he would if he would have been possibly the only one not voting. So he tried to make up a RV fast.

On the other hand, I wouldn't be to centered on Fatso only.

I certainly agree that sitting back and coasting through the RVS / RQS is bad news, since less input means less information we have to go on,

Why didn't you vote then? Until the end of RVS you didn't say one word. As startransmission phrased it 'flying under the radar'.

lynchking did almost the same but then hopped on the wagon for Fatso without any further explanation at first. Could you please explain that because I personally think RVS was over at that time.

[Fatso]

No, I put you at L-2 because your first post failed to move the game forward, and when you were called out on it, you gave up your previous stance and voted.

Let me get this straight: I said I didn't really want to RV, everyone wanted me to RV, I RVed, and now you're voting for me. Is that basically it? I never said I wouldn't RV if someone requested I do so, and yet that's what I'm being prosecuted for.

One quick thing. This is really a matter of opinion, but I really feel the OMGUS vote is far scummier than the folding in to the RVS pressure.

(This is referring to me, right?) How was my second vote OMGUS in ANY WAY?

[Fatso]

Vote: sarahfish89

Content please. You too h3llo.

[Zdenek]

One quick thing. This is really a matter of opinion, but I really feel the OMGUS vote is far scummier than the folding in to the RVS pressure.

I've never really found OMGUS to be a great scum-tell.

Let me get this straight: I said I didn't really want to RV, everyone wanted me to RV, I RVed, and now you're voting for me. Is that basically it? I never said I wouldn't RV if someone requested I do so, and yet that's what I'm being prosecuted for.

The fact that you didn't say that you wouldn't vote RV someone is irrelevant; caving to pressure is scummy because it shows that you are overly concerned with what people think.

Anyway, my gut says that Fatso is town, and I feel like pursuing something else.

Unvote
Vote Banana Stickers

[Bulvious]

Fatso wrote:
The only person I'm overtly suspicious of now is you, Bulvious. I don't really understand why you're making such a big deal out of me not liking RVS, and then not liking the fact that I voted when it was practically requested I do so. I have to say, you do seem more super-actively-scumhunting-towny than anything else (from my experience).

A few things wrong with this. When you say "Overly suspcious" do you mean you're merely suspicious of me? Or are you admitting to doubting my town-ness without significant reason?
Basically, Fat, in the future it'd be a good idea to be able to back up anything you say in this game. If you can't, and or give in just because of pressure - then you appear to be scummy. People who are lying tend to be more defensive about it than someone who is telling the truth. Liars in this game tend to be scum.

Still, I'm alongside Zdenek with this one. I'm thinking we can write Fat off as noobtown - for now.

Unvote

[]bVote: h3ll0[/b]

I just got out of a game with you and I know it isn't your playstyle to lurk. In fact, you provided a significant portion of the early game content - where are you?

[Bulvious]

Vote: H3ll0

Typo oops