Open 295 -- Island Paradise Mafia -- Game Over

[cjdrum]

No, I know nothing.

How else would a Mafia Goon die, though? With your proposed TTTTCVB, there'll only be one Vig.

[Jora]

No, I know nothing.

How else would a Mafia Goon die, though? With your proposed TTTTCVB, there'll only be one Vig.

TTTT = 2 Goons + Godfather,

Serial Killer

(Doc Bypass, Block Bypass, Kill Immune)

I frankly hope Mod created this game without your Pyton script.

[Jora]

Oh, don't be upset. I'm kidding.

[cjdrum]

Oops, yeah. Serial Killer :/

Nevmind, then.

If

it was the Vig, then that's hilarious. If that was an SK, then that's good for us - that we've got a scum killed from somebody who's against us. And we can hope it happens again

[DeathRowKitty]

Do you see nothing remotely worth voting for?

No, I'm not. May be you.
It is scummy to make a quick case on someone as soon as get two RVS votes himself, isn't it?
I'm not quiting RVS, just keeping an eye on you and not unvoting. I'd rather continue with RQS for now.

Q: How much should we rely on setup speculation?
A: A lot! I always loved it.
Q: How do you think the events of N0 played out?
A: I've already posted my thoughts on the night actions and a setup. Imo we have a variant with TTTTCVB. andrew94 was a Mafia Goon and he has been killed by a SK.

@cjdrum:

And, how lucky is it (for the Mafia) that they got the Vig, and for us that the Vig got his kill in (on a Mafioso), too! The irony.

N0 shot is very bad and anti-town play for a Vig. What makes you think Romanus did it? Did you know something interesting about Romanus?

No. No no no no no no no no no. No.

There are so many thing wrong with that post it should be nuked now and never allowed to see daylight. No. Just no.

Did I mentioned yet NO?

I'm going to try to list out everything wrong with this post. Even being a cat, I'm not sure I'll have enough time in all 9 of my lives. To be honest though, I think reading this might have gotten rid of 8 of them.

1. You're saying it's scummy to make a case in the RVS. How do
   you
   expect us to get out of RVS? Should we sit around and hope something happens?
2. The number of votes a player has on him or herself has no effect on whether or not that player should be making a case. If I see something worth going after, I don't care if I have no votes on me or if I'm at L-1. How could it
   possibly
   hurt to point things out?
3. I have
   two
   votes on me. It takes 6 to lynch. Evenif making a case was illegal with a large number of votes on oneself, two votes is practically nothing.
4. Let's pretend for a moment that the last two points don't exist. Let's pretend that only players with absolutely no votes on themselves are allowed to scumhunt. Do two RVS votes actually count for anything? What if I were to vote you now? Would you not be allowed to make a case? You'd have a random vote on you!
5. If you're looking to use the RQS to generate information, why continue with the RVS? If you're already looking to generate discussion, random votes should be useless to you.
6. Have you actually seen the RQS so far from this game? RQS very rarely accomplishes anything at all and it's been even less productive than usual by a large margin. Wanting to continue it is completely absurd.
7. Your questions give us nothing to look at in terms of scumhunting. At all. Period. I don't know what you could possibly think we'd get out of them.
8. Your answer to your first question is also completely absurd on day 1. We know that there's a dead vig and that there's a non-mafia killing role. There's nothing to speculate on.
9. For your answer to your second question, there is no way in hell we should be discussing which power roles we think exist. That's just the easiest way for players to accidentally give away their roles based on what they think is in the setup.
10. And how the hell did you decide that particular setup exists? Did you just pull random letters out of your ass and try to pretend it meant anything or would be even remotely useful to consider?
11. Night 0 shot is NOT very bad play for a vig. With 13p start, one could argue it is, but as long as the vig takes another shot, we trade one mislynch for two town-directed kills. No reason vig couldn't have shot night 0.
12. You're so intent on there being an sk. You know who would think about that? THE SK.
13. Your entire post is theory, with the first line being the only game-relevant one. See also: scum trying to appear useful while doing nothing.

So there we go, lucky 13. You know what else is unlucky for you?

Unvote: Sundy

Vote: }{opa

That is. You're now not allowed to make cases, right? Or does that only apply to players with at least 2 fully random votes on them and not players with real votes on them?

[DeathRowKitty]

And while I'm at it:

14. Your RQS questions are blatant excuses to discuss your agenda, which, quite frankly, looks nothing like a town agenda.

Lump that into number 7 if you want to stick with exactly 13 points for maximum bad luck.

[DeathRowKitty]

Also, before I get called out on throwing a bunch of null tells into a post in which I voted, the following items in the list are the ones that are actually scummy:

5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 12, 13, 14

And arguably 10

[yabbaguy]

DRK, ABR in MD has a point, let the game breathe.

Unvote

[DeathRowKitty]

His point is to make your words count and not start making useless posts for the sake of posting. I saw something worth posting about and I posted about it. You should comment on it.

[farside22]

DRK: your scaring me. I recall our last game together and you were not this verbal. I'm frightened as hell.
And I have some town reads thanks to this chatter and my first scum suspect.

N0 shot is very bad and anti-town play for a Vig. What makes you think Romanus did it? Did you know something interesting about Romanus?

unvote

vote: }|{opa

That is some blatant role fishy I see there in front of me. Yes sir, let ask her straight out if she is the watcher so }|{opa and mafia can kill her.

[Jora]

Oi! 14 items.
@DeathRowKitty. Am I so bad or you still trying to make a cases out of nowhere?
I just wanted to say you make things too quick like it something hurt your arse.
And those questions isn't mine. It's ToastyToast asking.

@yabbaguy. What is the "ABR in MD"? Is it some kind of Albert B. Rampage's favourite tactics? What does it mean?

That is some blatant role fishy I see there

Where is rolefishing? If it is some kind of fishing it is meta-info fishing. But it's not. I'm just pointed on an ambiguity in cjdrum's conclusion. And cjdrum is a boy, right?

[Jora]

Proverbs 28:1 The wicked flee when no one pursues.

@DeathRowKitty
Well, if all that is as you said and those two votes did not hurt you then you a scum even more.

[farside22]

That is some blatant role fishy I see there

Where is rolefishing? If it is some kind of fishing it is meta-info fishing. But it's not. I'm just pointed on an ambiguity in cjdrum's conclusion. And cjdrum is a boy, right?

You asked HIM if he knew something. How is that not role fishing exactly?
Sorry I saw the avatar and thought cjdrum was female.

[Jora]

You asked HIM if he knew something.

Blah! Ok, let it be rolefishing if you want it so hard. Great! Anyways, in C9++ setup is no Watcher role exist.

[farside22]

You asked HIM if he knew something.

Blah! Ok, let it be rolefishing if you want it so hard. Great! Anyways, in C9++ setup is no Watcher role exist.

What was the point of your questions then?

[Jora]

Well, my first thought was that Romanus is famous for his bad play at being a Vig. And, DRK, you totally not right here - Vig should never kill so early. It's very bad if he did.

[farside22]

Well, my first thought was that Romanus is famous for his bad play at being a Vig. And, DRK, you totally not right here - Vig should never kill so early. It's very bad if he did.

1) a mafia is dead. you point about vig kill early is total blow in your face if this was a vig kill
2) We don't know if there is a SK but if their is a SK in the game that shot andrew I would like to shake their hand for a good shot and for getting rid of someone who doesn't really scum hunt well.

[Jora]

so }|{opa and mafia can kill her

So you think that I am a SK. And...

2) We don't know if there is a SK but if their is a SK in the game that shot andrew I would like to shake their hand for a good shot and for getting rid of someone who doesn't really scum hunt well.

I suppose it's time for me to say thank you! But, I'm not a SK, I swear!

[Sundy]

Hmmm. I just never saw a game where someone died before it even started, much less two. Seems kind of pointless for those people to even have signed up. As for being "nervous," Kitty, you outright apologized in advance for making a joke about the NK lest someone misinterpret you.

Random questions:

Setup speculation

: I generated a couple random set-ups myself to get a handle on the open set-up. I think it is useful, but moreso towards the end of the game. With Opa already guessing it's the TTTTCVB set-up, speculation can easily slide into PR speculation.

Events of N0

: It basically panned out as if we already had one day of play with gains for town & scum, with a successful lynch and Mafia picking a powerful NK. Except without the discussion to pick up connections. I'd rather it start with talking than night actions.

Farside: Why did you say you were "frightened as hell" by Kitty, and then follow her case? What scared you about her posts?
Kitty: You said 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 13, 14 were scummy examples. 5, 6, 7 and especially 14 apply to Toast, the person who asked the RQS. Do you still think Opa is scummy knowing that?

[ToastyToast]

Have you actually seen the RQS so far from this game? RQS very rarely accomplishes anything at all and it's been even less productive than usual by a large margin. Wanting to continue it is completely absurd.
Your questions give us nothing to look at in terms of scumhunting. At all. Period. I don't know what you could possibly think we'd get out of them.

Actually, RQS is helpful because you get reactions. I use it to reactionfish. And, yeah, they are my questions, so you should be voting me.
Given that your vote is based on both the questions themselves and }|{opa's response, I would venture to say that it is helpful.

[farside22]

Farside: Why did you say you were "frightened as hell" by Kitty, and then follow her case? What scared you about her posts?

Last game that is over I read DRK as scum. He didn't attack as much and didn't give a town vibe, therefore suspect day 1. This game complete opposite. I always feel frightened by seeing a total different attitude in another game. This read is complete town. I question it in the back of my head but file it away for a note for later if necessary.
And finally I didn't "follow" kitty's line of logic. I saw someone who looks for all purposes of role fishing and I still don't feel satisfied by his response.

[DeathRowKitty]

Didn't notice TT had asked those questions. I would venture to say the questions themselves are not scummy in the context in which he asked them (someone telling him to come up with questions and him just kind of blindly throwing them out there).

All of my points except 7 and 14 still stand on }|{opa, so not moving my vote.

@DeathRowKitty. Am I so bad or you still trying to make a cases out of nowhere?
I just wanted to say you make things too quick like it something hurt your arse.

Are you going to address it or just hope to discredit me so everyone will ignore what i said?

Proverbs 28:1 The wicked flee when no one pursues.

@DeathRowKitty
Well, if all that is as you said and those two votes did not hurt you then you a scum even more.

Huh?

Well, my first thought was that Romanus is famous for his bad play at being a Vig. And, DRK, you totally not right here - Vig should never kill so early. It's very bad if he did.

You may continue to believe this if you wish. I see no reason to argue theory with someone unwilling to actually consider whether or not his opinions are wrong. I gave reasons. You just repeated what you said with no reason.

As for being "nervous," Kitty, you outright apologized in advance for making a joke about the NK lest someone misinterpret you.

Gosh, is everyone I attack this game going to try to defend by attacking me back? I expected to get voted as a joke for the end part of my post. If I was nervous, why draw extra attention like that?

DRK: your scaring me. I recall our last game together and you were not this verbal. I'm frightened as hell.

I can lurk if it would make you feel more comfortable...

Fixed quote tag. ~~NS

[ToastyToast]

@}|{: Don't limit yourself to an SK already. I've been in c9 games where the vig did shoot N0, and it paid off. A similar thing could have happened in this N0.
SK's are in c9 50% of the time, but the fact that a vig died N0 tells us nothing about the presence of an SK

[DeathRowKitty]

Stop speculating about the setup -__-

If there are 2 kills tonight, we know there's an sk. Until then, it doesn't matter.

Mod, can you fix the first quote tag in my previous post, please?

>.<

[DeathRowKitty]

Well, if there are 2 kills tonight, it becomes likely there's an sk. Can still technically not be one.