Charlie the Unicorn Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Zodiark13]

EBWOP: Meant to say questions, not points. 'u scum bro?' is a suitable replacement.

[ReaperCharlie]

Alliances have no place in mafia. We have no idea who is which alignment, and you're pissing me off.

Why so averse to the idea of an Alliance, NS? Whether that's because you weren't invited, or because you only ever remember me doing it as scum (HP mafia) I don't know, but Alliances are extremely pro-town, and there is a huge net benefit.

First, what is an Alliance?

I'll go over some parts of a game in which I was part of an Alliance, and later led it. I'll include a few quotes from either side of the argument, either pro-alliance or anti-alliance. Guess which side was which.

Town + Pro-Alliance (mostly me):

Ok easjo, I don't trust people in this alliance any more than you do. I was suspicious of Fate yesterday, and I am still suspicious of SpyreX and Merkabah. But as Merk said, the alliance IS a good tool. I'm certain that even if there are scum in the alliance (which there probably are), that they will either be forced to commit anti-scum actions for the sake of appearing town, or they will be exposed at some point. From what I can tell, the only downside to the whole idea is that we get less discussion time before lynching scum, which is not good.

I am ready to live or die by this alliance.

bitch plz.

the alliance is ensuring us the win, regardless of scum infiltration

You are supposed to auto-vote anyone I vote for. That's the whole point of the alliance.

When MME flips scum, then we can talk about whether or not the alliance is getting us anywhere.

Savvy?

Dear The Alliance,

I want to be in your pants.

Sincerely,

xRECKONERx

the Alliance is only so good as we're all town, and since we have no way of knowing that, there could easily be scum chilling with us.

This has been proven wrong multiple times thus far in this game.

Regardless of the presence of scum in the alliance (though obviously not desirable), the alliance itself is pro-town.

Scum + Anti-alliance:

You're STILL going with that Alliance shit?

No, it is not protown to maintain this alliance crap.

Let's say you blockvote the alliance all the way up to 3p LyLo. What are you going to do now? Nothing else but putting down a random vote as those 3 players will have the perfect excuse for being on every mislynch and every correct lynch there has been in this game. You're taking out scumhunting or a lack of out of the equation in a situation wherein you will need it the most.

Putting up or sustaining an alliance at this point is antitown. Just saying.

A few things to note:

- rcharlie only started flailing his arms and wanted a wagon on me after I dismissed his alliance once more
- several anti-alliance people died (lowell comes to mind)
- rcharlie has been too eager to have this alliance for 2-4 days already and is way too eager to be the one controlling it
- despite rcharlie having said that we should scumhunt now instead of relying on dreams, he still wants to blockvote, which imo contradicts that statement of his

Do with it what you will, but the alliance has been useless from since crypto was lynched. And I don't like rcharlie leading it (or thinking that he does) and it is clear he only wants it around to his own benefit.

Vote: reapercharlie

Regardless of my alignment, your alliance is antitown, reaper. Leading it like that is horribly antitown of you and you should have been lynched or suspected over it a hell of a lot sooner. I'm surprised that you even got a horde of townies together, but then again, they all were thinking what andy thought and were only concerned about their own survival. Lowell was right. The townies in the alliance have lost all common sense.

And here's one more by me-town:

Blockvoting does not negate scumhunting. It facilitates joint scumhunting between remaining known Innocent or probably Innocent members. Such is the nature of an alliance in the first place, to cut down on arguing between people who are confirmed or near-confirmed.

And I don't want a wagon on you because you're anti-alliance. I could care less if you're anti-alliance. Andrius and xReck have both said "enough of this alliance bs" too. It's not about that, and it seems pretty clear that you're using that as a straw man for my actual argument on you.

By the way: It's a given that there will be anti-alliance players. Do you honestly think I'm scum and NKing each and every anti-alliance player in systematic order, JUST so that I can have my cake and eat it too? And it is ALSO a given that some of the people that died would have been anti-alliance as well... quite a few people have died.

I have done my utmost to make sure that the least amount of pro-town people possible have died, and I think we've done a pretty good job of that so far. We've got nine scum dead so far, and only six townies. That's unprecedented.

And look at the endgame ratios:

ReaperCharlie - survived and won the game
Deer - survived and won the game
Nachomamma8 - survived and won the game
Shattered Viewpoint - survived and won the game
Andrius - survived and won the game
inHimshallibe - survived and won the game
xRECKONERx - survived and won the game
Dry-fit - survived and won the game
ZazieR - survived and won the game

My Milked Eek - lynched by Alliance

So really:

The only GOOD argument against an Alliance is that it's not playing the game the way it's meant to be played.
But you could also argue that Mass-claiming is the exact same thing, and yet Mass-claiming happens all the time.

In the same way that scum try to avoid Mass-claiming, scum don't like the formation of Alliances.

[Umbrage]

tanstalas: the ISO

#1: Says he joined mainly because of RC.

#2: Attacks RC right off the bat because a) he wants to move out of RVS and b) RC was the first to respond when Hiraki began the game.

#5: Shuns Zodiark for not commenting on the game. Note that for his RC vote, he said it was serious, but for Zodiark, he feels 'halfway decent' about it.

#6: Changes the subject away from RC and tries to draw attention to Zodiark.

#8: Puts words in Doom's mouth. Doom said nothing about claiming, but tanstalas insinuates this.

#9: Declares Doom suspect because Zodiark said the pressure vote was fine. Note that Zodiark wasn't actually defending Doom, he was just answering Pulindar's questions.

#10: Turns to childish retorts when Zodiark, his number one suspect, starts questioning him. This is not the way to push a wagon, particularly when you recall the sole reason tans finds Zod scummy at this point is because Zod wasn't commenting on stuff. Way to set an example.

In short, tanstalas is hopping from target to target with very little reasoning. Each case is extremely contrived. When Zodiark responds to his attack, he dodges the questions. The sensible, pro-town thing would be to create counter-arguments. This is just slander. He's trying to appear like he's scumhunting, but doesn't really care enough to follow through on any of his leads.

Shun: tanstalas

[Umbrage]

@ ReaperCharlie: A bunch of stupid quotes about an alliance has no fucking relevancy to this game. We are not forming an alliance FIVE FUCKING PAGES INTO THE GAME. You last wall o' text was complete bullshit, and more than a little scummy.

[ReaperCharlie]

Listen Umbrage, I don't care what you think, it is officially ALLIANCE TIME. Yes, it's true, it has come extremely early this game, but the time is already ripe.

There will always be pro-Alliance people, and there will always be Anti-Alliance people. You just have to decide which side of the fence you're on. The entire point is to have pro-town AND scummy people in the Alliance. If you don't get this, then you're missing the point.

(btw, did you even READ the quotes I posted? I spent a good while looking them up because I thought they adequately described stock attitudes of town and scum to the formation and continuation of Alliances. Please read them).

Anyway, here:

(proposed)

ALLIANCE MEMBERS

ReaperCharlie (via Unicorns)
Stefunny (via Unicorns)
tanstalas (via Unicorns)
Rhinox (via Unicorns)
Umbrage (I like his posting)

5 members is plenty for a game this size, at this point.

RULES

1.We all vote together. That means we all vote the same person, but we have to agree amongst ourselves who that person will be. Once we do that, it forms a blockvote effect that is pretty much unstoppable because nobody else can "control" our votes through manipulation, because we already have a standing agreement.

2. We can vote to invite new people into, or kick people out of the Alliance. This includes me, even though I'm starting it. I mean, as a non-Alliance member, people still CAN vote with the Alliance if they wish, but obv they don't have to. The Unicorns start in the Alliance, but only because I created it and it's a Unicorn game They are free to leave if they want.

3. Alliance gets pared down in size as the game does. Should be slightly less than half, if even that large. This ensures the maximum amount of helpfulness, usefulness, and trustability.

4. Remember, the main object of this entire idea of Alliances is to FORCE SCUMMY PEOPLE TO DO PRO-TOWN THINGS, AND HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE IF THEY DON'T.

Ok, now:

ALLIANCE HIT LIST

Charlie
Hiraki

That's just for the moment. Things will evolve greatly as the game speed picks up and as more Alliance-related discussion and voting happens.

Now discuss away.

[tanstalas]

Umbrage, where did he ask me questions? LOL am I missing something, you both said I am dodging Zod's questions. I don't see any questions anywhere.

"And since when was having a life a scum tell?" I took as a rhetorical question. Are you guys chatting in your scum QT trying to put pressure on me for not answering your questions? Well, shoot me some questions and I will answer them.

Seriously, look at Umbrage and Zod, trying to flay me for not answering questions when none were posed to me by either of them. This is just too lulzy

Need more votes on either of them.

[Nobody Special]

@Nobody Special: ¿prefieres linchar a) Alguien que no da mucho, pero que ha mecánicamente no hay razón para que la mafia, o b) un jugador útil cuya alineación no tienes ni idea de?

Este artículo ha sido distorsionada por la traducción.

Translated: Do you prefer to lynch a) Someone who does not give much, but it has no mechanical reason for the mafia, or b) a useful player whose alignment does not have any idea?

I would rather lynch someone who is being 1) actively scummy or 2) anti-town (in that order). If no such person exists, I'll vote a lurker.

@ Nobody Special: Why do you feel RC is anti-town?

His arrogance and attempt to direct the town is not to be trusted. He does the same whether he's town or mafia, and without being able to tell the difference, I can't trust him.

Listen Umbrage, I don't care what you think

Please, someone other than RC, explain to me how this sentiment is AT ALL protown.

[Haylen]

Shun Count

:
Charlie: ReaperCharlie, Doombunny
Tans: Zodiark, Umbrage
Umbrage: Hiraki, Kryptinen
Reapercharlie: Stefunny, Nobody Special, Charlie
Zodiark: Tans, Pulindar
Kryptenin: Rhinox


Not being a shunning bastard:

Deadline:

Thursday 19th May 9pm GMT

Votes to lynch:

7/12

Prods:

Notes:

I don't mind spoiler tags. I do not like votes in spoiler tags. If you put votes in spoiler tags, you will be that guy with 5 magikarps and you do not want to be that guy.

[Umbrage]

RC, the Alliance idea is quite possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard on this site. We're not Alliancing.

tans, your OMGUS has been noted.

[kryptinen]

Sólo la atención mafia sobre opiniones de los demás. ¿Por qué la ciudad de cuidado? Tenemos que hacer nuestra propia mente, para que no nos llevó alrededor de la mafia.

traducir

[tanstalas]

RC, the Alliance idea is quite possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard on this site. We're not Alliancing.

tans, your OMGUS has been noted.

OMGUS where? Still waiting for you to point out these questions Zod asked that I am supposedly dodging

[Hiraki]

RC, the Alliance idea is quite possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard on this site. We're not Alliancing.

tans, your OMGUS has been noted.

This. I just really needed to say that, because an Alliance without knowing what the factions are is incredibly risky. Especially if there are 2 or more members of the mafia in the alliance.

Also realize that the alliance could also form into an easy town-scum argument, and the scum that are on the alliance can easily get a ML from other members of the alliance after it breaks up.

The next day? Nah, can't see someone lynching the other for being wrong.

I will say more in the next few moments.

[ReaperCharlie]

RC, the Alliance idea is quite possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard on this site. We're not Alliancing.

Apparently you haven't heard many stupid ideas then.

1. Did you or did you not read the quotes in my post?
2. Did you or did you not see the outcome of that game?
3. Do you or do you not think I'm town? and why/not?

Listen Umbrage, I don't care what you think

Please, someone other than RC, explain to me how this sentiment is AT ALL protown.

Sólo la atención mafia sobre opiniones de los demás. ¿Por qué la ciudad de cuidado? Tenemos que hacer nuestra propia mente, para que no nos llevó alrededor de la mafia.

Translated: Only the mafia care about others' opinions. Why should town care? We have to make up our own mind, so we are not led around by the mafia.

traducir

Graciazzz.

@Nobody Special: ¿prefieres linchar a) Alguien que no da mucho, pero que ha mecánicamente no hay razón para que la mafia, o b) un jugador útil cuya alineación no tienes ni idea de?

Este artículo ha sido distorsionada por la traducción.

Translated: Do you prefer to lynch a) Someone who does not give much, but it has no mechanical reason for the mafia, or b) a useful player whose alignment does not have any idea?

I would rather lynch someone who is being 1) actively scummy or 2) anti-town (in that order). If no such person exists, I'll vote a lurker.

Well, no duh. Who do you think is being actively scummy, besides me?

@ Nobody Special: Why do you feel RC is anti-town?

His arrogance and attempt to direct the town is not to be trusted. He does the same whether he's town or mafia, and without being able to tell the difference, I can't trust him.

So wait, you're saying that I'm the only one who you can't trust, and I'm the only one who you don't know as to their alignment?

Seriously, though. I'll tone down the 'arrogance' if you'll rationally read things like THIS:

RULES
1.We all vote together. That means we all vote the same person, but

we have to agree amongst ourselves who that person will be.

Once we do that, it forms a blockvote effect that is pretty much unstoppable because

nobody else can "control" our votes through manipulation

, because we already have a standing agreement.

2.

We can vote to invite new people into, or kick people out of the Alliance.

This includes me, even though I'm starting it. I mean, as a non-Alliance member, people still CAN vote with the Alliance if they wish, but obv they don't have to. The Unicorns start in the Alliance, but only because I created it and it's a Unicorn game

They are free to leave if they want.

3. Alliance gets pared down in size as the game does. Should be slightly less than half, if even that large. This ensures the maximum amount of helpfulness, usefulness, and trustability.

4. Remember, the main object of this entire idea of Alliances is to

FORCE SCUMMY PEOPLE TO DO PRO-TOWN THINGS, AND HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE IF THEY DON'T.

... and then respond to them in a clear and succinct manner, without spouting stuff like "OMG RC IS TRYING TO LEAD THE TOWN ZOMG SCUM!!!1"

1. Do you or do you not think that alliances could be useful if led by pro-town people? Confirm or deny.
2. Do you or do you not understand that scummy people can be kicked out, INCLUDING ME? Confirm or deny.
3. Do you or do you not understand the concept of FORCING SCUMMY PEOPLE TO DO PRO-TOWN THINGS, AND HOLDING THEM ACCOUNTABLE IF THEY DON'T? Confirm or deny.

This is why I have such a hard time believing that your opposition to the idea. I mean, there is such an

unbelievable

net pro-town benefit from creating an Alliance... but ALWAYS. ALWAYS. ALWAYS. there's a staunch resistance from a vocal minority who's like "THIS SPELLS CERTAIN DOOM FOR US ALL!".

It's like religious fanatics saying that Obama is the anti-christ because he wants to switch things up a bit. You are trying to start a witch hunt on somebody who's quite obviously being pro-town, and suggesting something that has been PROVEN TO HAVE A POSITIVE EFFECT FOR TOWN, even when the creator of the original alliance in that game WAS SCUM.

Please answer my questions, NS. And please stop being hard-headed.. and weird.

Love,
ReaperCharlie

[Nobody Special]

Here's the thing: An Alliance smacks of exclusivity and (for lack of a better made-up word) clique-y-ness. As to your questions:

1) Confirm
2) Confirm
3) Confirm -- I understand the concept; what I don't get is the HOW.

I'm also not comfortable with you leading the Alliance. Yes, your arrogance just really gets under my skin. It's a personal thing, and I'm trying really hard to see the benefit within the game.

And it's not so much that you're the ONLY PLAYER that I think is anti-town; it's that you're SO MAGNANIMOUSLY anti-town that you're filling up the radar screen so that there's no room for anyone else. (That's how strongly I am against an RC-led alliance.)

As a side note, in your proposed Alliance list, you've got most of the list coming in via Unicorns. I've not read the UB thread, I don't know a lot about you guys, but please explain how some Group that existed rprior to this game can have a bearing on player's alignments in this game. In other words, you have NO GUARANTEE that all your proposed Alliance members are town. How can you have a Town Alliance with scum in it? It's broken.

Please note that I'm willing to discuss this. I just don't think it's a great idea. And you'll need to do A LOT of convincing to get me to feel otherwise.

[ReaperCharlie]

I'm also not comfortable with you leading the Alliance. Yes, your arrogance just really gets under my skin. It's a personal thing, and I'm trying really hard to see the benefit within the game.

I think the best way I can explain myself is this:

As a side note, in your proposed Alliance list, you've got most of the list coming in via Unicorns. I've not read the UB thread, I don't know a lot about you guys, but please explain how some Group that existed rprior to this game can have a bearing on player's alignments in this game. In other words, you have NO GUARANTEE that all your proposed Alliance members are town. How can you have a Town Alliance with scum in it? It's broken.

Please note that I'm willing to discuss this. I just don't think it's a great idea. And you'll need to do A LOT of convincing to get me to feel otherwise.

Nobody ever said it was a "Town Alliance". I merely said "Alliance".

Again, you're missing the point of the Alliance.

Please take note of the following quotes, again:

The main object of this entire idea of Alliances is to FORCE SCUMMY PEOPLE TO DO PRO-TOWN THINGS, AND HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE IF THEY DON'T.

the Alliance is only so good as we're all town, and since we have no way of knowing that, there could easily be scum chilling with us.

This has been proven wrong multiple times thus far in this game.

Regardless of the presence of scum in the alliance (though obviously not desirable), the alliance itself is pro-town.

Does this help or hurt?

--

I mean, I am actively trying not to come out and say "Shut up, just do it" or "Hay guyz trust me!", I'm actually legitimately trying to present this as a good course of action. I have realized that the more I explain, the more people are actually legitimately willing to try something that's intelligent. When I just say "shut up, do it", that's a gigantic turn off to them and anyone else who sees it. And this whole Alliance thing is a team effort, so it's important not to cultivate that kind of anti-trust sentimentality. That tears towns APART. What I am trying to do is build us up.

The difference between a town-led alliance and a scum-led alliance is that it becomes pretty obvious, if not right away, then pretty early on, who is to blame. It's easier to spot dissenters among people who are "automatons" than people who are actively different from each other in every way. And /inb4 "omg you just want us all to be automatons!!" -- I'm not saying everyone has to be automatons, it's just an analogy. Here, another quote:

Blockvoting does not negate scumhunting. It facilitates joint scumhunting between remaining known Innocent or probably Innocent members. Such is the nature of an alliance in the first place, to cut down on arguing between people who are confirmed or near-confirmed.

I appreciate you being willing to discuss it. That's all I can expect from anyone, really, but the fact that you said that gives me a townie vibe. You are invited to the Alliance if you so desire. If not, you can feel free to vote with us regardless of your "official membership" or not. It's really an informal thing. There ARE no cons to this idea, only PROs. A lot of them.

I realize how hard it is to trust me after Harry Potter, but hey. I was scum then and I was doing what it took. Now I'm doing what it takes again, just from the other side of the coin.

[Umbrage]

RC, the Alliance idea is quite possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard on this site. We're not Alliancing.

tans, your OMGUS has been noted.

OMGUS where? Still waiting for you to point out these questions Zod asked that I am supposedly dodging

Both Zod and I have noted that you aren't responding to him. You say he's your #1 suspect, but you seem content with going UMAD instead of, I don't know, stating actual reasoning. You respond to this with LOL NO. Either you're scum or you're way too immature to be playing this game.

And speaking of immature, RC, if you make one more shit-post about an alliance that clogs up the thread, I am policy lynching you. This game is becoming unreadable. Enough. It is a bad idea in a game that likely has third parties and multiple win conditions. It stinks of a plot to try and distract the town from doing any scumhunting.

[ReaperCharlie]

And speaking of immature, RC, if you make one more shit-post about an alliance that clogs up the thread, I am policy lynching you. This game is becoming unreadable. Enough. It is a bad idea in a game that likely has third parties and multiple win conditions. It stinks of a plot to try and distract the town from doing any scumhunting.

100% anti-town post detected.

Question: What kind of townie discourages discussion just because "they don't like it", and then caps it off with a threat to policy lynch someone.
Answer: One who's not a townie.

Unvote; Vote: Umbrage

[ReaperCharlie]

It is a bad idea in a game that likely has third parties and multiple win conditions. It stinks of a plot to try and distract the town from doing any scumhunting.

And as for this part, this is exactly WHY we need an Alliance. So that all of these third parties/multiple win cons will be regulated and

The only person who would be against this would be one of those anti-town win-con holders, or an idiot. I know you're not an idiot, so therefore I deduce you're scum. It was the exact same thing with the last few pages of Werewolf Wisborg Asylum. I knew My Milked Eek wasn't an idiot, and therefore he must be scum.

Answer me this:

1. What's the benefit of quashing discussion about an Alliance?
2. Why are you trying to throw a tantrum and such if you don't get your way?
3. Do you realize that if the majority of the Alliance is pro-town, then they are

forcing scum to vote for other scum?

4. Do you realize that by accepting the "protection" of the Alliance, scum are forced to give up many of their rights to push mislynches?
5. Do you have any questions about an Alliance that you haven't asked yet? Cause I am full of answers.

And I see that I forgot to use shun (again?)... -__-

Shun: Umbrage

[Nobody Special]

Umbrage: Do you have game history with RC? Do you have game history with Alliances?



RC: DO NOT MENTION THAT ABORTION OF A GAME. EVER AGAIN. EVER.

[ReaperCharlie]

Hehe.








And abortion is

[Hiraki]

UGH.

I'M GOING TO HAVE TO ARGUE?

DAMNIT. HERE COMES THE MOTHERFUCKING QUOTE WALLS.

[Nobody Special]

Down, boy.

[Umbrage]

It is a bad idea in a game that likely has third parties and multiple win conditions. It stinks of a plot to try and distract the town from doing any scumhunting.

And as for this part, this is exactly WHY we need an Alliance. So that all of these third parties/multiple win cons will be regulated and

The only person who would be against this would be one of those anti-town win-con holders, or an idiot. I know you're not an idiot, so therefore I deduce you're scum. It was the exact same thing with the last few pages of Werewolf Wisborg Asylum. I knew My Milked Eek wasn't an idiot, and therefore he must be scum.

Answer me this:

1. What's the benefit of quashing discussion about an Alliance?
2. Why are you trying to throw a tantrum and such if you don't get your way?
3. Do you realize that if the majority of the Alliance is pro-town, then they are

forcing scum to vote for other scum?

4. Do you realize that by accepting the "protection" of the Alliance, scum are forced to give up many of their rights to push mislynches?
5. Do you have any questions about an Alliance that you haven't asked yet? Cause I am full of answers.

And I see that I forgot to use shun (again?)... -__-

Shun: Umbrage

BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH

It is anti-town to spam your ideas in huge posts several times per page. If a situation arrives where a magical unicorn alliance is useful, we'll form one, 'k?

[Nobody Special]

EBWODP: The "Down, boy." sentiment was meant to discourage the use of RAWR CAPSLAWK, not to discourage the use of logic, arguing, debate, and other fine and useful Mafia tools.

Just so we're clear.

[Nobody Special]

Umbrage, please answer my questions.