New York 131: Tricycle Mafia (Day 5)

[Amor]

I'll also add Pine to the list of acceptable lynches (Toon Fighter and Maxous are the others, for those wanting to look towny when placing their votes

Why are you telling people how to look townie?

[Wraith]

@SZS: This is very flimsy, especially at this point in the game at this time of the year, but both games I've played with nhammen have been games where he was scum, and both had very similar playstyles. I'm already seeing parallels in his only three posts so far: he's lurky, but when he does post they look really townie. He was only caught in the first game because he got killed by an SK N1 - he didn't get caught in the second one.

[Thor665]

Why are you telling people how to look townie?

Because you all look so scummy I'd love to get some more town reads and am willing to do anything to get them. What of it?

[nhammen]

Procrastinating on my take home final by playing Mafia. And I'm supposed to be smart...

Nothing about Thor's case? Yeah, I'm happy with my vote.

It wasn't a case, it was one line without even a vote. I didn't think it was really worth a response. Maxous and I had similar observations, so what?

Anyway, we seem to be out of RVS so it's time for a real vote.

Unvote
Vote Knight of Cydonia

Mostly gut, but I don't like his lack of opinions or trying to pass off reading the thread as gathering information.

So, when you said you didn't like Pine's interrogation of Thor, you decided not to accompany that with a vote, but in the same post, mentioned another game in which RVS was over. But, you are only removing your RVS vote now? Why the long wait, when you saw something you didn't like earlier?

It was a random vote for the sake of making a random vote. At least we are getting some gameplay out of it. I know nothing about the alignment of either of them. And I didn't notice Maxous already had 2 votes on him when I voted nhammen

It was just a random vote? But you made a comment about wagoning, so it wasn't purely random (as other players have now stated). I thought you were gonna say something about wanting two bandwagons, or something similar. I used to always try to create competing bandwagons at the start of a game (can't remember the last time I did though). Since you didn't do as I expected, there may actually be something to the case presented by SubzeroSith. It looks like a bit of a stretch to me, but then again, anything in the RVS looks like a stretch. The game needs to start somewhere, and Toon's explanation isn't any explanation.

Wow, that paragraph went nowhere. I guess what I'm saying is that if you squint a little, and look at it from the right angle, Toon looks bad. I see Amor as scummy without "squinting" as much, so I'm going after him. If I didn't have Amor, I would probably be adding to the pressure on Toon.

Heh, interesting point about Amor.

What does interesting mean in this context?

As in he could well be correct.

And you didn't accompany that with a vote because... ?
Actually, I guess your vote against Pine was a serious vote, so nevermind about that line of inquiry.
But just saying interesting, and leaving it at that seems a bit too vague. Maybe intentionally vague.

@SZS: This is very flimsy, especially at this point in the game at this time of the year, but both games I've played with nhammen have been games where he was scum, and both had very similar playstyles. I'm already seeing parallels in his only three posts so far: he's lurky, but when he does post they look really townie. He was only caught in the first game because he got killed by an SK N1 - he didn't get caught in the second one.

Here's a hint about meta cases: if you want to say someone is scum because they are playing like they do as scum, you first must show that they don't play that way as town. Otherwise, your conclusion is false. So, go and check my recent town games and tell me if I have been lurky and made pro-town posts. Cuz I have something called grad school that has affected my activity. Also, too town to be town is a bad logical fallacy to be using.

However, I would like to point out, that this does look like town play coming from Wraith. This is an honest attempt to use past meta to find scum, which indicates a pro-town alignment from Wraith.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I have no idea what just happened either, I'm going to bandwagon like crazy now.

Unvote: Maxous
Vote: Toon Fighter

Uh...huh. So, you're not voting for any reason other than "Oooh, big shiny wagon!" Noted. Agree with Amor on the whole "hey, vote these guys to look like a townie!" thing, looks like scum directing other scum.

Dislike Wraith using meta to put pressure on nhammen - any semi-competent player (which, for the sake of the argument, we'll assume nhammen is) can be and often

is

aware of their meta and actively plays against/with it. Meta is about as reliable a scumhunting tool as ReaperCharlie is a good poster.

[Thor665]

@KoC - Uh...huh. You've been playing since 2008, I don't think I should need to explain what I'm doing to you. Vote me for "directing other scum" or pretend not to understand something else. Either way, stop wasting everyone's time.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Ah, but you see, that's where you're wrong. You

do

have to explain what you're doing, because otherwise, it

does

look like directing other scum, and if you don't explain I will vote you.

[Thor665]

Then vote me sweet lips, I said what I said.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Vote: Thor665

Anything you say darling.

[SubzeroSith]

both games I've played with nhammen have been games where he was scum, and both had very similar playstyles

It's a start. Show me more connections down the road to nhammen's current play with his scum play (and even better, how it is dislike his town play) and I'll definitely listen.

Before you made this post, I was going to put you on blast for having 7 posts containing zero content, but now you have 8 posts with 1 sorta-content. How do you feel about the current popular wagons (Toon, Pine, myself)?

I regards to Sub's post, I was actually looking at option number 2 before you posted. nhammen's most recent post came off as scummy for whatever reason. I'll figure out why I didn't like his post soon enough.
The reasoning seems sounds enough for a vote, but if it builds up too quickly I'll get off so Toon can put his word in. I'm interested, but it's still kind of vote madness right now so I'm not going to make a big deal.

I don't like this post. Let's break down what you said.
1) "I have similar thoughts regarding your case against Toon." Parroting? Buddying? Maybe.
2) "This is enhanced because I somehow found one of nhammen's posts scummy, and can't explain why." You need to explain this.
3) "I'll vote, but I'm very hesitant, and would like to give myself a backdoor in case this goes too far." Obvscummy play.

I'm definitely feeling like if Toon flips scum, this is a bus vote. I'll keep this in mind for later.

Welcome back, Uite. What are your thoughts on the game so far?

sapor, now that the RVS is over, what do you plan to do with your vote?

Amor, do you still find Knight to be the scummiest player right now? What are your thoughts on the popular wagons?

[MrZepher]

I don't like this post. Let's break down what you said.
1) "I have similar thoughts regarding your case against Toon." Parroting? Buddying? Maybe.
2) "This is enhanced because I somehow found one of nhammen's posts scummy, and can't explain why." You need to explain this.
3) "I'll vote, but I'm very hesitant, and would like to give myself a backdoor in case this goes too far." Obvscummy play.

I'm definitely feeling like if Toon flips scum, this is a bus vote. I'll keep this in mind for later.

1. Semi-buddying. I wasn't sure if I was correct in seeing his vote as a distance move, but since somebody else had also seen that it made me more comfortable making a basis on top of that. Make sense? Not intentionally parroting but I get why you think that.
2. Sheeping, unnecessary direction at KoC and Max and it looked like he was just trying to find a reason to keep his sheeped vote where it was.
3. I'm uncomfortable with making votes without cases during RVS, especially since I'm prone to making connections where they don't exist day 1.

I might need to re-read the last couple of pages because I think I missed some things, but I generally have yet to see a reason to take my vote of nhammen.
I'm also inclined to think Thor is town, KoC is misguided town, Amor might be scum, Toon needs to post more but might be scum, Maxous and Sub seem pretty town or very clever scum.
Everyone else is kind of null...

[Thor665]

Vote: Thor665

Anything you say darling.

Okay - so now kindly explain to me who I was coaching because they were doing so bad that the scumteam needed to have someone openly coach some players in the thread.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Well, there's saporo and silver, who've done fuck all for at least a day - and in saporo's case, nothing but an RVS vote on... you, oddly enough. No RVS vote is ever truly random, remember... Plus, there's all the people whose votes aren't on your "townie wagon" list. Looking at the massive circlejerk of "you!" "no, you!" shit we've got right now, I'd say just about any of the people involved in that Toon Fighter/SZS...

thing

could be potential coaching targets... not saying they all are, but I'd bet there's scum heavily pushing one of those wagons... just not entirely sure WHICH yet. Working on that.

[SubzeroSith]

Knight, that post was horribly incoherent. Read your stuff before you post it, please.

And telling an inactive player to post is not coaching.

[Thor665]

C'mon, Subzero, me calling for more votes and posts is obviously because my scumteam is literally falling apart under the onslaught of scumhunting that has exploded across this thread thus far. Sweet mother of mercy, man, I have to get in there and save everyone!

That said, I find Amor more scummy of the pair and I can't imagine two scum would be pushing this angle. So possibly one of them, not both, I'm leaning Amor.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I'm making perfect sense, you're just not keeping up.

[silverbullet999]

sub would you mind signing your posts as to which one it is? Not that you HAVE to but just thought i'd ask if you wouldn't mind.

*has nightmares of there will be blood*

koc seems fun.

-Koc
Where was I coached by Thor?

-Thor
Answer my post 56! (I forgot to "label" you in it, but ya it was directed at you.)

[Thor665]

YES!... ok maybe not but i'm impatient i suppose.
Isn't sub a "big wagon" with 2 now thanks to me?
I thought the biggest wagon was 3 with max from last vc.

You want this responded to? Okay.

1. You are impatient.
2. No, and you're still avoiding commenting on the big wagons.
3. Learn to read vote counts?

[Amor]

So, when you said you didn't like Pine's interrogation of Thor, you decided not to accompany that with a vote, but in the same post, mentioned another game in which RVS was over. But, you are only removing your RVS vote now? Why the long wait, when you saw something you didn't like earlier?

I wanted to keep the Maxous wagon together for a bit longer, as it seemed to be generating discussion (i.e. the SZS/Toon argument). Pine wasn't scummy enough to get me to take my vote away from that, but KoC was.

Amor, do you still find Knight to be the scummiest player right now? What are your thoughts on the popular wagons?

Knight has been the most consistently scummy. Other players have made scummy posts, which I've tried to call attention to, but Knight is the only one whose gameplay as a whole is suspicious.

As far as the popular wagons: for Toon there wasn't much to the original case, but his flailing in response to it and OMGUS vote was very suspicious. Pine's interaction with Thor still strikes me as weird, but his other posts look fine. I'm not sure why there are three votes on SZS, as he's struck me as townie so far.

Also, I don't think Thor was coaching with the line I mentioned, but rather using town-cred to entice people onto certain wagons. Thor is basically promising the less active players a free pass if they vote how he wants them to. Just because someone agrees with you doesn't make them town, and it seems stupid to leave a huge chunk of players free from investigation. I'm not sure whether this is just bossy town play or active scum manipulation.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Knight has been the most consistently scummy. Other players have made scummy posts, which I've tried to call attention to, but Knight is the only one whose gameplay as a whole is suspicious.

Right hang on now you see "gameplay" is a pretty big, nebulous word and is pretty much equivalent to "gut" here since you're not actually giving any kind of quantifier beyond "his gameplay is scummy". That's not a statement you get to make without backing it up.

Thor is basically promising the less active players a free pass if they vote how he wants them to. Just because someone agrees with you doesn't make them town, and it seems stupid to leave a huge chunk of players free from investigation. I'm not sure whether this is just bossy town play or active scum manipulation.

You're right, it does seem stupid. And, since he managed to find his way here and stick around for 2 years, I'm assuming Thor isn't stupid. If he isn't stupid, then he wouldn't give people free passes as town, which leaves me with the last option...

-Koc
Where was I coached by Thor?

I'm not saying it's necessarily you he's coaching, but until just now you and saporo had been out of the game for the longest (speaking of which, where is she?) so it could possibly have been a nudge at one of you two to get your vote in there, or it could have been something else entirely, I'm just throwing stuff out there, thinking aloud, or in type, if you will. I do it a lot, get used to it.
Oh, and I'm glad you think I'm fun. I AM fun, this is going to be FUN.

[silverbullet999]

-Thor

2. No, and you're still avoiding commenting on the big wagons.
3. Learn to read vote counts?

2. most recent Votecount at the time of asking (post 39)
Maxous (3) – Amor, Thor665, Nobody Special
SubzeroSith (1) – Surye
and 3 others at 1
so...
3. Learn to read vote counts.

[DeityKabuto]

@SZS: This is very flimsy, especially at this point in the game at this time of the year, but both games I've played with nhammen have been games where he was scum, and both had very similar playstyles. I'm already seeing parallels in his only three posts so far: he's lurky, but when he does post they look really townie. He was only caught in the first game because he got killed by an SK N1 - he didn't get caught in the second one.

Hm... If you suspect him then start a case on him.

[Maxous]

• KOC and Subzero are likely to be town.
  I think Jmurph is town.
  Ever so slightly leaning town on Wraith.
  nhammen and Mr.Zepher look like town.
  I'm unsure about Thor- I'll see after a couple of more posts.
  VERY unsure about Amor
  Pine looks slightly scummy
  Toon fighter seems like mafia - quite interested in his next post

Everybody else is null due to not having enough content to judge them by apart from:

Unvote

VOTE: Silverbullet

Looks to be active lurking.

[Thor665]

Thor is basically promising the less active players a free pass if they vote how he wants them to. Just because someone agrees with you doesn't make them town, and it seems stupid to leave a huge chunk of players free from investigation. I'm not sure whether this is just bossy town play or active scum manipulation.

You're right, it does seem stupid. And, since he managed to find his way here and stick around for 2 years, I'm assuming Thor isn't stupid. If he isn't stupid, then he wouldn't give people free passes as town, which leaves me with the last option...

I read this and this is what I see.

Bleeple-bleeple, I'm not actually taking a stand but it doesn't make sense for Thor to promise town cred to those who vote his way, yet he seems to want to control people to vote who he thinks is scummy.

You're right, bleeple-bleeple. There is absolutely NO WAY that town could *possibly* want to bleeple-bleeple, control the vote! Only scum want to make sure their chosen target is lynched. Thor is not stupid, therefore Thor is scum - please ignore my own lack of sense in coming to this conclusion as Amor and i continue our love-fest of terrible logic!

You've been here longer than I have KoC, so I'll also presume you're not stupid so...what the fug am I missing here?

2. most recent Votecount at the time of asking (post 39)
Maxous (3) – Amor, Thor665, Nobody Special
SubzeroSith (1) – Surye
and 3 others at 1
so...
3. Learn to read vote counts.

The POST MOAR Votecount

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

nhammen (2) – Pine, Toon Fighter
Pine (1) - Wraith

(this actually became a 2 because Maxous moved right before you did)

SubzeroSith (1) – Surye (you made this a 2)
Maxous (3) – Amor, Thor665, Nobody Special[/color]

So you had 2 options to make a wagon a 3 and one to make it a 4 and you decided what was most needed was no opinion or force on those wagons and instead you'd needle at SubZero.
Why?
Also - learn to read vote counts

[Thor665]

Hm... If you suspect him then start a case on him.

Who do you currently suspect and why?