Succession Mafia II: OVER!

[Magister Ludi]

ABR and Kinetic want what the town wants as well, the wiping out of the other players cult. It is only better that they are 'bitter enemies', as a victory over the other would be that much sweeter. Most of what they say about the other will be true, most of what they say about themselves will probably still be false.

(feels like dealing with the devil)

Of note Kinetic: "/confirm pre-in
First game in about a year or so"

To get a general feel of the game, I'm in favor of each player proclaiming who THEY would of picked should they of been a N0 cult recruiter. It will give a general feeling of the make-up of the mind.

Chrono, could you explain why these recruiters would NOT want to pick a very good player. It seems like an optimal choice.



Could eliminate all players within a year of joining. Too much of a wild card.

[Magister Ludi]

Why does ABR speculate on there being VI's on his team, when all of them have been wisdom of the crowd's out of this game. Means something. Not sure what

[Kinetic]

Kinetic has been my rival ever since 24 mafia, a game that ended very badly for me. Yosarian and Kinetic stole the game from my perfect plan because townies were too dumb to listen. Since Pooky, the mod at the time, did not send vanilla PMs, me and 2 other players came in the game about 30 pages deep into the game when we were prodded. I said that we were confirmed town. Everyone else, particularly the scum, disagreed. Yosarian was made director of CTU. Jack Bauer died. New York was devastated. But Kinetic was the one who made many personal attacks against me. I did not forget it, Kinetic. This game is very personal. You are the one player that I wanted to beat in a fair contest out of everyone present. This is a golden opportunity for revenge. I am invested into this one.

I can tell you that Kinetic has an even bigger ego than me. He fancies himself something special. He's logical to a fault. He would bet his eggs on someone he knew, like Lugi said. He would likely try to get one of the top players early on; beating me to the punch for Yosarian or Seraphim. He may not have played with his choice of target, but he has certainly seen them play. Perhaps someone from Wheel of Time, a game he not only modded, but followed, analyzed, and seen through 100+ pages.

In any case, Kinetic and I will battle for who we think the other will recruit in subsequent days so as to ascertain a leg up on the other. Chronopie and Fritzler are pivotal players in this sense. We must balance subtlety and attrition in our strategy, for choosing too timidly will forbid us from having a presence in the influence of each day's lynch, but choosing too aggressively might cost us getting behind in numbers. There are likely unrecruitable power roles, cult doctors or limited vigilantes in this setup, so a failure doesn't necessarily mean we attempted to recruit someone already picked by the enemy. We have all these things to take into account when making our decision.

Part true, part bias, part misunderstanding.

24 Mafia, god, how long ago was that. That was literally my first game on Mafiascum, way back in the day. I hope you know if I said anything I didn't mean it, but I understand the rivalry and will work to live up to it.

As for my ego. Meh, perhaps. I'm not a good judge of that, although I do think I'm better than the average bear.

Its true, we will battle behind the scenes, however the balance in this game that I find so intriguing is the battle we will have in the thread as well. As others have stated its in our best interests to target the other person's recruits if possible, and the town's best interests to try and kill one of us dead as quickly as possible, or failing that to get recruited by the bigger cult. This makes an unrecruitable role doubly bad though for town. Unrecruitables HAVE to play for the town WC no matter what, but if they are ever outed, its also in the town's best interest to lynch them for fear they are one of the other's cults. And it makes it in the cult's best interest to out such a player to get them lynched, its a plus no matter if its a town PR or the other cult's choice.

The town, hopefully, will understand that I am not beheld to their wishes, and may just flat ignore them, either because I don't want to say something or perhaps not discourage them from jumping to the wrong/right conclusions. I only mention this because ABR will do the same. I would hope not to have to be the one to speak up and say his being coy is not evidence either way for the argument at hand.

Since everyone has joined the game now and confirmed, we're just waiting on Flay to start the game officially, but I suppose this is about as good a time as any to present a plan for the town, if they would indulge me.

Its a simple plan, one that benefits the town in some way, and also forces both myself and ABR to divulge some information, perhaps that we wouldn't want to.

The rules are simple, myself and ABR will choose, let's say 2-3 people that we think the other has recruited. From that pile of 6 people we decide the lynch. Myself and ABR can alternate on who goes first, and I don't anticipate this plan working beyond say the 3rd or 4th day (Although I suppose we will evaluate that strategic choice day by day), as things start to get dicey, but for the early game I think its a good idea to lower the choices into a more manageable number, and give some good WIFOM bait to anyone so inclined.

IF ABR agrees, I can go first today on who I think his 2-3 picks are, and he can follow me, and we can flip tomorrow, etc, if we are both still around.

[Kinetic]

Who has played extensively with Kinetic? We need an expert.

Doubt you'll find one, for two reasons.

1) Most of the people who know my play-style well aren't here, save you and maybe a couple others.
2) I haven't played or modded a game in damn near a year. And since that time I've gone through my first year of law school. I joined this game specifically to see if my playstyle has changed drastically or not, and if the addition of law school logic (heh, you'll understand the oxymoron that is if you've been there) has aided or hurt my game.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I have no qualms. Please choose, Kinetic.

[Magister Ludi]

Who do you think ABR recruited?

Has anything he has said so far wrong or made in an attempt to subvert town?

[Kinetic]

I'm going to go with:

Fritz
DGB
and either Chronpie or Yos, leaning toward Yos right now

As your first recruit. Reasoning after your three.

[Magister Ludi]

Hey Kinetic, ABR, what role do you think the map will play in this game?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Kinetic, shall we have a gentlemen's agreement to not talk about the map, our abilities, our communications and the details of our roles as mob figures?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm going to go with:

Fritz
DGB
and either Chronpie or Yos, leaning toward Yos right now

As your first recruit. Reasoning after your three.

So your plan is to lynch one of these 3 players?

[Kinetic]

Kinetic, shall we have a gentlemen's agreement to not talk about the map, our abilities, our communications and the details of our roles as mob figures?

For as long as it suits me as such, I can agree to that.

[Kinetic]

I'm going to go with:

Fritz
DGB
and either Chronpie or Yos, leaning toward Yos right now

As your first recruit. Reasoning after your three.

So your plan is to lynch one of these 3 players?

My plan is to listen to your three choices.

[Albert B. Rampage]

You realize that you just parroted back to me the players I pointed out in #95 and added DGB to the happy family.

So by picking those players, I assume that you chose a new player. I for one went through the posting history of every player I wasn't familiar with. I've documented the promising ones extensively when I was approached with the possibility of being lieutenant, before the game thread was even up.

This makes your plan a waste of time.

For the sake of the agreement we had, I will nominate Fritzler, Chronopie and ThAdmiral for yours.

[Kinetic]

A waste of time? Nah. I'm glad you did so much work though. It makes an interesting contrast in styles.

I added DGB mainly because everyone knows your animosity. You need one day, and I think you can buy that with a DGB recruit. People might start to eventually notice your lack of movement toward DGB later in the game, but that would be too late for you, once you've chosen her and gotten to day 2.

Fritz feels like he fits your mold of the ideal player. Your interaction earlier felt... rehearsed somehow, and I immediately felt my attention fall onto it.

Yos and Chronie were wildcards. I felt like you threw Yos out there earlier to get his name out, and Chroniepie's interaction earlier was equally interesting. Add to that your use of Yos as part of your "24 hate" made some interesting comparisons with the game you're putting me on. But at the same time, I feel like that would be too high profile for your first recruit. I think you want him day 2 or 3 though... Curious curious.

As it stands, ThAdmiral and DGB are the only two "unique" players from our list, but that actually bothers me more. I'm wondering if you did that on purpose, with that meaning your recruit could be Chronie or Fritz (who you picked) or Yos (who you left out).

My gut is saying Fritz or DGB right now, and if I had to choose, I'd go with Fritz being your choice.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I don't claim him. Hang the Fritzler if you wish.

[Kinetic]

I think I'll do that. I'd vote him, but I think we have to wait for the game to start first.

[Chronopie]

Chrono, could you explain why these recruiters would NOT want to pick a very good player. It seems like an optimal choice.

Simple: Every knows that those particular players are a powerful force for either alignment, either cult, to acquire and maintain. Yos can attest to this personally, as much the same happened in Succession I, with him gaining a large amount of suspicion purely for being so good that he was a forgone choice for a recruit. Thus they are not good choices to recruit, specifically because they're good, which means

[wifom]

We as town know they're good choices to recruit, because they're good, so they're likely recruits (As opposed to say... Katsuki, bunny, or myself, who tend to be erratic at best), which in turn means that town needs them to die, in order to kill the cult, which in turn makes them bad choices to recruit specifically because they'd be good choices, thus good lynches for town to make, thus bad recruitment choices.

[/wifom]

(also cyclic argument is cyclic)

tl;dr: They're good, we know it, we're likely to lynch them, because they'd be a good recruit, which is why they aren't recruited, because they'd be lynched, which would be disadvantageous to the cults.

--

I'm still surprised that I'm being rated highly. In my own estimation I'm a mediocre player at best, with occasional flashes of insight, and prolonged periods of... 'meh' quality play. Selected by Both ABR and Kinetic as a potential recruit for the other, yet recruited by neither, feel free to wifom that.

then ofc we have the additional layer of wifom in whether they're saying that in order to distance/buddy in order to get me lynched, thus not one of their own teams, thus better for them.

[ThAdmiral]

DrippingGoofball: Would be interesting pick for ABR since apparently he hates her, so no one would think of this possibility.

I thought of this too.

I would probably pick populartajo or springlullaby out of that list, for what it's worth. Good players, but not obvious choices.

[Cecily]

Chronopies reasoning makes sense, but given my first impressions of the game it seems that both Kinetic and ABR know better than most everyone else how this game is played. And with this knowledge it seems like they would have already thought through Chronopies reasoning and realized that if the town thought like that we'd start aiming for the less obvious players thus dragging our attention away from the good recruits. So this means that they could take the risk and actually pick a good recruit, hoping that we'd lose sight of them in our quest to kill the wildcard.

So now the question gets raised whether ABR and Kinetic actually are thinking like that or not.

I have no basis for opinion right now because I am unfamiliar with both players, but it would be my suggestion that we as town maintain focus on the top players without getting sucked into the trap of "oh it's so obvious, let's not do it"

[Yosarian2]

Chrono, could you explain why these recruiters would NOT want to pick a very good player. It seems like an optimal choice.

Simple: Every knows that those particular players are a powerful force for either alignment, either cult, to acquire and maintain. Yos can attest to this personally, as much the same happened in Succession I, with him gaining a large amount of suspicion purely for being so good that he was a forgone choice for a recruit. Thus they are not good choices to recruit, specifically because they're good, which means

[wifom]

We as town know they're good choices to recruit, because they're good, so they're likely recruits (As opposed to say... Katsuki, bunny, or myself, who tend to be erratic at best), which in turn means that town needs them to die, in order to kill the cult, which in turn makes them bad choices to recruit specifically because they'd be good choices, thus good lynches for town to make, thus bad recruitment choices.

[/wifom]

(also cyclic argument is cyclic)

tl;dr: They're good, we know it, we're likely to lynch them, because they'd be a good recruit, which is why they aren't recruited, because they'd be lynched, which would be disadvantageous to the cults.

Yeah, the most high-profile players wouldn't really make a good day 1 recruit. If someone like DGB or Fritzler or Porochaz (or me, hah) starts acting really weird day 3 or so, watch out; cults might bring in the "heavy hitters" later to try to dominate the day game, but day 1 for the cults is probably going to be all about just getting through the day without people paying attention to their recruits at all.

[Chronopie]

@Cecily: I should hope my reasoning makes sense, it was a direct reference to the previous Succession game, in which the very events occurred.

And yeah, it's about whether/when play

Changes

, not just scum hunting from the outset. Although some manage to blur the line between the two.

[Porochaz]

I like the fact the two godfathers have agreed on this plan yet all town players who have posted thus far have ignored it. Im of the opinion of DGB, we carry on as normal.

[Seraphim]

Hmmm, before, the cults did not get to recruit during the confirm stage. They got to confirm, THEN recruit. Of course, confirmation was not in the topic last time. It was thru PM(someone correct me if I'm wrong).

[Seraphim]

I'm not sure about the WIFOM...it's definitely possible that someone recruited a VIish player to mess with us or a really good player to mess with us or went with the obvious "probably won't get lynched" D1 choice.

The question is: which, if any, of the two recruiters is most likely to gambit and mess with us?

[Mr. Flay]

Day One has begun. Nightfall will occur no later than the end of June

13th

14th, server time.

With 25 voters, it will take 13 to lynch.