Mini 1185 - Artemis Fowl Mafia Game Over

[vollkan]

I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill, and think things over.

I can't work out if you are being ironic or serious here...I'm being asked to claim based on a wagon that has absolutely terrible arguments underpinning it. Of course I am going to respond.

MD thread?

See my fourth post. I linked it. Here - [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p3038254]. A non-game example of me declaring that I don't think that RVS (or RQS) is useful

Serious question? Do you want me to speculate on a counterfactual? If x, then answer y; if ~x, then answer z. Well, I said x, right? So why am I answering z? I'm not. Obviously.

I wish I could be as naive as you, thinking every argument in this game has been substantive so far.

:headdesk:

Mafia 101:
In order for something to legitimately be a scumtell it must be such that it is demonstrably more likely to come from scum than town. If you can't do that, it isn't a scumtell. My counterfactual was to make you explain how you go about claling my page 1 following a scumtell

Whether or not every argument has been substantive is irrelevant here - my wagon's at the srs end of business

so what do you do when you're scum? Roll a die? How do you add points to reads when you're lying through your teeth? How does one fake a scumread with such mathematical precision? I'm curious, because I want to know how you do it. In theory. If you ever were scum, and, say, got really upset by some offhand remarks and gave someone, I dunno, let's say, +5 on your scumometer. In that unlikely series of events, how would you BS your way to that?

It doesn't impact on how I play; it's just a means of ranking.

[SleepyKrew]

UNVOTE: volkan
Well, I guss it's time for him to claim... already? L-2 now, with my vote in essence on him.

Krew+7

,

Unvote, Vote: Krew

Let me very clear as to why, so that I don't get howls of "OMGUS" from the more lobotomised of you. Aside from ignoring my response he proceeds to push the wagon beyond the point of no return by demanding a claim. If he was town genuinely trying to ascertain my alignment, I would have expected a response ordinarily, but especially given that he was trying to force a claim. Coupled with the fact that he initially voted me for random reasons, then slides in the seriousness afterwards, I think it merits 7 points. Joining a wagon for random reasons, then adding on some weak serious reasons and, of all things, UNVOTING before demanding a claim reeks of trying to slip in under the radar.

Does that look like a demand? That is me being unsure. I was surprised that you got to L-1 so quickly, hence the "already...?" and was asking if it was too early for a claim.
Also, I don't understand how much more clear I can be. My vote on you WAS. NOT. RANDOM.
I also unvoted so as to prevent a quicklynch. Would you like my vote to go back on you?

[vollkan]

UNVOTE: volkan
Well, I guss it's time for him to claim... already? L-2 now, with my vote in essence on him.

Krew+7

,

Unvote, Vote: Krew

Let me very clear as to why, so that I don't get howls of "OMGUS" from the more lobotomised of you. Aside from ignoring my response he proceeds to push the wagon beyond the point of no return by demanding a claim. If he was town genuinely trying to ascertain my alignment, I would have expected a response ordinarily, but especially given that he was trying to force a claim. Coupled with the fact that he initially voted me for random reasons, then slides in the seriousness afterwards, I think it merits 7 points. Joining a wagon for random reasons, then adding on some weak serious reasons and, of all things, UNVOTING before demanding a claim reeks of trying to slip in under the radar.

Does that look like a demand? That is me being unsure. I was surprised that you got to L-1 so quickly, hence the "already...?" and was asking if it was too early for a claim.
Also, I don't understand how much more clear I can be. My vote on you WAS. NOT. RANDOM.
I also unvoted so as to prevent a quicklynch. Would you like my vote to go back on you?

If you thought the wagon had moved too fast, that's something you ought to have raised. Under no circumstances is passively going "I guess he should claim" acceptable - either you were demanding I claim in circumstances where you were plainly not taking my responses seriously, or you were trying to meekly let the wagon build despite apparently being aware of how terribad it is.

[SleepyKrew]

I do not say the wagon is terribad. Just... quick. But I still think you are scum.
"and was asking if it was too early for a claim."

[vollkan]

I do not say the wagon is terribad. Just... quick. But I still think you are scum.
"and was asking if it was too early for a claim."

You're missing the point. A wagon builds to L-1 with obscene speed. I post a rebuttal which, thus far, nobody has even attempted to counter (other than Acos's rather embarrassing quasi-trolling effort...). You apparently know that the wagon is quick, and yet you not only don't draw attention to this or use it any way to question the wagon, but you don't even go back to reflect on the comprehensive response that I gave.

There are at best just two elements to the case against me:
1) Opposing RVS and not doing anything about it is scummy
2) Following another player, especially when you try to do it with impunity, is scummy

1) is wrong even on first principles (it implies that you can't think RVS is useless without thinking of a more useful alternative, which is just logically untrue). And, moreover, I've already pointed out several times that I consistently have an attitude of "meh" to RVS. I can't see any alternatives, but I'll float along and just hope it ends fast.

2) simply ignores what I did. Far from following with impunity, I was explicit in my view that I thought AGM's argument was reasonable. At the risk of repeating my early counterfactual, what was I meant to do? Say "Well, AGM's got a decent idea here, but I'm not going to support it because that would require that I follow him"?

- And, yes, the above is repeating what I've already said, but nobody seems to be paying any attention to it.

[SleepyKrew]

1. I don't like meta, so I guess this is moot to me. I still think you should try to get out of it if you don't like it >.>
2. And why didn't you check when MPR posted a defense?

[vollkan]

1. I don't like meta, so I guess this is moot to me. I still think you should try to get out of it if you don't like it >.>

"I don't like meta" doesn't cut it. I don't care how much you dislike meta, you can't seriously tell me that I am scum in this game for an attitude that is reflected in a non-game context.

Even within this game, what on earth is the scumtell that you are alleging? Why is it scummy to dislike RVS but, not knowing of any viable alternative, to not try and do something to get out of it?

2. And why didn't you check when MPR posted a defense?

I asked him to clarify his defence and, when he did, I promptly unvoted. Whether or not I ask him to confirm his meta versus me searching for it myself is irrelevant (let alone to the point of constituting a lynch-worthy scumtell)

[vollkan]

Quasi-EBWOP:

Even within this game, what on earth is the scumtell that you are alleging? Why is it scummy to dislike RVS but, not knowing of any viable alternative, to not try and do something to get out of it?

Especially given that when an alternative did present itself, in AGM's idea, I supported it.

[SleepyKrew]

I have reread. I believe volkan for now. I'm off to tunnel someone else.
VOTE: bob
For not taking this game seriously. At all.

[Leiskyrie]

Will reread through vollkan's giant walls at a later time.

Acosmist=borderline trolling/noisemaking which for me is null at the moment.

[Nexus]

Votecount 1.4:

vollkan (5): Lady Lambdadelta, Leiskyrie, Katsuki, Ellibereth, MehPlusRawr
SleepyKrew (4): kiwieagle, Kwanton, AlamasterGM, vollkan
bobsnox (2): DeathNote, SleepyKrew
Ellibereth (1): Acosmist

Not voting: bobsnox

The deadline is at 8am GMT on the 20th June 2011. With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

[Acosmist]

(other than Acos's rather embarrassing quasi-trolling effort...)

aw I embarrassed you

[Kwanton]

hm dunno what to think about sleepy backing off but

unvote

for now.

thats really the only big thing i've seen so far. both cases against MPR and Vollkan were weak to begin with and both their defenses make sense. Agree that acomist is just trolling at this point. But troll doesnt equal scum.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

We've driven this shenanigan far enough.

Unvote; Vote: Kwanton

[Acosmist]

hm dunno what to think about sleepy backing off but

unvote

for now.

thats really the only big thing i've seen so far. both cases against MPR and Vollkan were weak to begin with and both their defenses make sense. Agree that acomist is

just trolling

at this point. But troll doesnt equal scum.

Oh yeah, how would you know that? You apparently have some reason for knowing that the people I have suggested are scum are actually town?

Interesting! How did you figure this out? Did you look at the roster of your quicktopic and fail to see those names on it?

[kiwieagle]

Sigh.
What does a question have to do with someone being mad acomist?

[Acosmist]

Sigh.
What does a question have to do with someone being mad acomist?

What question and who's mad?

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/acosmist /spelling brotip

[kiwieagle]

yeah a lot of people hate RVS because they prefer not to have to force themselves to be casual; they want to get into pointless semantic arguments so they can nail someone for a verbal slip-up

we call that lot of people "scumlors"

Acosmist+5

1) You are saying having a meta dislike of RVS automatically makes a person scum?
2) If yes, why?
3) If no - then suppose a player with said dislike read AGM's post and thought "Hmm, that sounds like a good idea". What should they do?
4) Why are you pulling "pointless semantic arguments so they can nail someone for a verbal slip-up" out of your arse? I don't think I've done that at all this game, so inserting it in your attack just seems to be a way to make me seem scummy for no basis whatsoever

1 yep
2 cuz RVS is a pure mirror into alignment and that terrifies scum
3 lolumad
4 I was attacking you waaaaat

This is what I meant.
Dont assign emotions to people, without reason.
You didnt even answer his question,
all you said is
lolumad

[Acosmist]

yeah a lot of people hate RVS because they prefer not to have to force themselves to be casual; they want to get into pointless semantic arguments so they can nail someone for a verbal slip-up

we call that lot of people "scumlors"

Acosmist+5

1) You are saying having a meta dislike of RVS automatically makes a person scum?
2) If yes, why?
3) If no - then suppose a player with said dislike read AGM's post and thought "Hmm, that sounds like a good idea". What should they do?
4) Why are you pulling "pointless semantic arguments so they can nail someone for a verbal slip-up" out of your arse? I don't think I've done that at all this game, so inserting it in your attack just seems to be a way to make me seem scummy for no basis whatsoever

1 yep
2 cuz RVS is a pure mirror into alignment and that terrifies scum
3 lolumad
4 I was attacking you waaaaat

This is what I meant.
Dont assign emotions to people, without reason.
You didnt even answer his question,
all you said is
lolumad

How can you not see that my answer to question 1 mooted that question?

Do you get conditionals?

Do you comprehend them?

I don't like talking about possible worlds that are not relevant. I'm keeping to a pretty tight similarity sphere. Otherwise we'd have enormous wallposts that would waste my time and annoy everyone else.

[Acosmist]

Imagine a series of questions like this:

1. Are you a cop?
2. If so, whom did you investigate last night?
3. If not, who do you think is the cop?

Now imagine the answers are:

1. Yes
2. [some player]
3. No answer

Would you then criticize the guy for not answering question 3?

I hope not. I hope I don't have to explain such basic things to you! I think I might! It might be one of those games!

[Acosmist]

For three

from wayyyyy downtown!

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/u-mad

bobnsox plz post, I've seen you lurking for like a day in this forum

[kiwieagle]

Yes I know what conditions are
if no
if yes.
That stuff.

I wasnt telling you to answer the question.
I was telling you why does him asking you a question make him mad.

[kiwieagle]

dont need to give me the huge explanation (just noticed it)

[DeathNote]

What you guys are talking about really doesn't pertain to anything nor does it give anyone real reads.

[Acosmist]

What you guys are talking about really doesn't pertain to anything nor does it give anyone real reads.

Noted. You don't want people posting content.