Newbie 1117(Town Wins)

[drmyshottyizsik]

Does Bo Know has requested replacement. Looking for one now.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Awesoma replaces Does Bo Know effective as of now.

[drmyshottyizsik]

VOICE OF MOD: Awesoma can't replace Does Bo Know for he was an SE. sorry.[/mod error]

[SomeRandomGuy]

Just to let you guys know, i think i've managed to fry the graphics card on my pc and for some reason i can't get the onboard graphics to work right now... it means i wont post quite so much as i'll have to post from my bf's macbook when he's not using it. chances are you guys wont have even noticed anything from this, but just making you aware incase my posts do become slightly less frequent.

To whomever ends up replacing Bo:
?
Welcome to the game, once you've had time to catch up what are your current thoughts of the game? Do you agree with cases Bo seemed to like or do your opinions differ much from his?

[Haze]

Oh Lord, going through, going through these 5 pages gives practically nothing new. The only people who've really posted, and thus by extension revealed quite a bit about themselves or their possible roles are Random and BB, and as a result they've also fallen under the most suspicion; everyone else is unreadable.

Anyway, these are just some random lines I've picked up on by others which stood out to me. They aren't FOS's, just to try and keep the discussion going.

How do you think those questions will help determine other players' alignments?

First person to object to Random's Q's, has been glossed over for RedCobalt's and BB's objections. Just sayin, if you're going to look at an unwillingness to reply to questions posed, at least look at it evenly.

It's just different, I'll go with it, but don't expect me to lead any lynches d1.
Either way, had I said "I refuse to answer these questions" or the what I did say, the disagreement with the questions would seem scummy.
Gonna wait for more posts. Don't hammer on me if it comes to it.
I'm not going to sheep and say that something is a great idea if I have issues with it.
I mentioned the not hammeran because I didn't want to die with my song unsung.

Again, this crapload of stuff is due to BB's consistent posting.

It shows us an obsession against SEEMING like scum. As a VT I can't see what BB has to fear about looking scummy is; unless you think that either your powers of deduction or your role is valueble to the townies, I don't personally see any real problem with dying; it's part of the game and allows others to move on and pick up deductions from there. Only two situations I see here are that BB's a power role or you're scummy.

Obviously, avoidance of leading lynches, avoidance of 'sheeping' or bandwagoning, afraid of hammering, whatever. You say that Random's scum reads on you are bogus and you say he jumps on every little thing you say, but these little things kinda build up to big things when you're this paranoid about being lynched.

Random, started scummy, but he has over the posts, kinda like showed me that he is to clean to be scum, he is willing to open up and explain his ideas without holding anything back. I still kinda think your "null"
...
Because , i feel that your the most ... strangest !

I don't really have problems with the logic you use here like Toasty does, despite contradiction yourself. I mean, reads are often confusing and muddled up anyway. But what I cannot forgive is that if you have a muddled or confused read, in this situation you would hold off for more posts, rather than push in a random direction or gut feeling, especially as you seem to have some hard evidence on Random, and feel that you have something to go on. Rather, you revert to some basic hunch, and vote BB. It feels counter productive. BB has enough pressure already from people voting on him, pressuring him more probably won't make him spill more, unless he happens to get to L-1. I think that your lead on Random would probably have been more effective, while random has made rather good cases on others and we understand his reasoning style and postition, there haven't really been as many questions posed to him as have been posed to BB.

Anyone who says that they wouldn't manipulate other players is a flat out liar, infact someone is likely already trying, it's a scum tactic and i don't need to do it in this game, that's not to say i've never saw town manipulate people to go for what they believe to be scummy players, but that's not exactly a pro-town way to play.

very few suspicions here, just a question though.

Would you do that^ as in, manipulate us town players in order to go for a lynch you believe to be scummy? Why?

And then on the list, there are these ppl, who I've got no real idea of.
Myself
Quackerz
Bo <-- Anything else is shot; not much point reading until the replacement comes.
Kad
Toast - I am worried, Toast. I kinda agree with Bv that for the sheer volume of posting that you have done, there's much less substance compared to BB. What's going on? Sure, the other guys are lurking and saying nothing, but other than that one post; you're almost as good as lurking. Or am I picking up too much here.

Whatevs. Wish the others would post a little more...

[SomeRandomGuy]

. As a VT I can't see what BB has to fear about looking scummy is; unless you think that either your powers of deduction or your role is valueble to the townies, I don't personally see any real problem with dying; it's part of the game and allows others to move on and pick up deductions from there. Only two situations I see here are that BB's a power role or you're scummy.

Is this you claiming VT or alluding to BB as being VT? (I missed if he claimed it), either way a VT claim is anti-town and can actually be game breaking, i've looked over a game where such early VT claims actually irreperably damaged the towns standing. VT's should not claim it, infact they should make themselves targets in some way, whilst not being so obvious that they've no PR to hide.
Also, I don't like that you've put out the idea BB is either scum or a PR - as town we should not be speculating on the Power Roles particularly and if we do it should only be with the aim of protecting them in some fashion. We certainly at this stage should not be speculating about them in the thread, we don't want the scum to have any leads... they already know which of us are town, the less information or leads we give them on PR's the better - it's more like a random attack to find them if we do our job at this stage, which unless giving out false reads to them (hoping they'll target someone who is only VT is good).

As town our job is as follows (regardless of role and in this game)
1) Discuss as much as possible to make accurate lynches
2) Try to bring the scums attempted kills against VT's or someone who is likely to be protected.

Anyway, no VT claims or insinuation please and certainly no 'hes sum or PR - the scum know in that case! and if you think that way and you are town, with their extra information...they can be a little more certain!)

What i do agree on though is the following points:
Some people need to post more, a lot of toastys post (up until his post against red) were white noise, whilst containing plenty of theory, it didn't contain much in the way of cases but i think his post on red addresses that issue nicely.

[bvoigt]

Toasty's case is...meh. Some of the points are good, but others don't really make sense. (His post has numbers; check them to see what I'm referring to.)

1. I would agree with this. Red, why didn't you answer the random questions?
2. This point might be valid later in the game. But at this stage, I think reads can change pretty quickly, especially when you have a few pages to catch up on.
3. I'd agree with your first bullet point, but you admit that his second reason is valid, and since Red had already outlined a couple of reasons, it wasn't just a gut read. I don't think the vote was scummy.

It shows us an obsession against SEEMING like scum. As a VT I can't see what BB has to fear about looking scummy is; unless you think that either your powers of deduction or your role is valueble to the townies, I don't personally see any real problem with dying; it's part of the game and allows others to move on and pick up deductions from there. Only two situations I see here are that BB's a power role or you're scummy.

Where are you going with this speculation? It looks like rolefishing (trying to provoke unnecessary claims) to me. BBmolla isn't going to claim scum, so all you're going to do here is possibly out a power role.

Is this you claiming VT or alluding to BB as being VT?

After this, you go on to clearly explain why VT claims are anti-town. So what pro-town reason do you have for asking this question? Haze, it's better if you don't clarify what you meant.

[ToastyToast]

3. I'd agree with your first bullet point, but you admit that his second reason is valid, and since Red had already outlined a couple of reasons, it wasn't just a gut read. I don't think the vote was scummy.

I had a problem with his interpretation of the event. Anyone can plead not to get lynched. He didn't mention the timing at all, which I consider to be the most important part.

Toast - I am worried, Toast. I kinda agree with Bv that for the sheer volume of posting that you have done, there's much less substance compared to BB. What's going on? Sure, the other guys are lurking and saying nothing, but other than that one post; you're almost as good as lurking. Or am I picking up too much here.

This whole "white noise" thing is interesting. I guess I just don't find 5 pages to be enough content to develop strong reads?

Also, Haze, you say "everything is shot" regarding DoesBoKnow. Just as a suggestion, remember that its important to compare the old player with his/her replacement (future IC?)

After this, you go on to clearly explain why VT claims are anti-town. So what pro-town reason do you have for asking this question? Haze, it's better if you don't clarify what you meant.

My initial understanding was that it was rhetoical. Interesting how he's basically trying to teach Haze.

[SomeRandomGuy]

I did respond properly to this but i'm using the macbook and hit some button which made the page go back... damn i hate these keyboards anyway basic points i made (since i've little time to respond now)

It was a rhetorical question, i followed up straight away with the advice, any attempt from Haze to continue along that lines or clarify himself or BB as VT would be incredibly scummy so no, he shouldn't answer the question.
And to your point toasty:
I'm not specifically trying to teach Haze, my information is simply because i don't want ANY VT claims at this point his points made me bring it up, if you're even inferring that i'm attempting to teach him for anything other than town reasoning, you should also note he's not the only one i've quoted theory to as a reason of stopping mistakes that hurt town.

[ToastyToast]

btw, the parentheses should be on the last line (lol referring to the 'teaching').
And noted.

[bvoigt]

3. I'd agree with your first bullet point, but you admit that his second reason is valid, and since Red had already outlined a couple of reasons, it wasn't just a gut read. I don't think the vote was scummy.

I had a problem with his interpretation of the event. Anyone can plead not to get lynched. He didn't mention the timing at all, which I consider to be the most important part.

IMO, the timing thing was pretty clear in context, since it's obvious when you read the thread that BB was nowhere near being lynched.

[BBmolla]

My paranoia regarding the lynch is because I'm used to faster bandwagons. Most of the scumtells I'm showing are just dumbtells cause I'm not sure how forum mafia works when compared to other forms. A lot more reading in between the lines I suppose.

Unfortunately my reads are highly biased from whose been voting me and who hasn't been so I need to work more on looking at it from a different point of view. Not much to say until the replacement and Quackerz post more. Feel free to ask me anything if you guys want, once I get some reads on the replacement and Quackerz I'll throw out a vote.

For now I will FoS

Kad

who has slipped under the radar of all reads thus far.

[bvoigt]

Unfortunately my reads are highly biased from whose been voting me and who hasn't been so I need to work more on looking at it from a different point of view. Not much to say until the replacement and Quackerz post more. Feel free to ask me anything if you guys want, once I get some reads on the replacement and Quackerz I'll throw out a vote.

What

are

your reads on the other 7 players?

[BBmolla]

Well. Let's see.

Random I'm getting town, he's trying to get reads out for everyone. Not just honing in on one person and attempting to lead others against them.

Toast I'm getting town. Even if others seem wary about him, I'm not getting a scummy feel from him. Also his post with the Buttered and Burnt toast was pretty well thought out.

Haze I'm getting mixed feelings. Some posts he acts really new and then the next one he acts like he understands the game completely which is a bit odd.

bvoigt seems really aggressive, every post seems to be an attack on someone.

kad is going under the radar by posting as little as possible and coming in last second to give a FoS/Vote.

Bo is giving me a suspicious read. Wish I could have seen more of him but alas I'll have to wait to see from his replacement.

And Red is the most suspicious for me for previous reasons stated by others that make logical sense.

Also, just to get it out there, I was wrong about the NL. Unfortunately, the despute around the NL has not done anything to make me look very townish, I will admit, which is why I can understand the FoSes towards myself.

And Quackerz seriously needs to post.

[Haze]

In reply to my supposed seeming new to this game then understanding it, I have to say that I have played this game before albeit in an informal manner where nobody knew what they were doing, and all townies and mafia, 3rd party, had power roles.

While I can see my mistake, I don't quite see where it seems like I fully understand this game. Also, I don't see how that should affect how you read my alignment.

[bvoigt]

Haze, would you please explain why you were speculating about BB's role?

BB, why are you suspicious of Bo?

[Redcolbalt]

Redcolbalt--Strongest scum read
1)

I dont get this, if you part of the town here. Why would you ask this question ?
just to get reactions , well with your answer wouldnt people find you more of a bad guy here.
You did mention earlier that you would maniuplate other players.

He attacks somerandomguy for his answers to the questions, and yet doesn't answer them himself. In my opinion, if he is going to attack someone for revealing information, he should give his own answers first. He's using information from random questions that he himself is unwilling to answer. Also, where did redcolbalt say he would manipulate other players? Misrep?

Random, started scummy, but he has over the posts, kinda like showed me that he is to clean to be scum, he is willing to open up and explain his ideas without holding anything back. I still kinda think your "null"

So you attack him for being open in his answers and the questions, but then use that same reasoning to defend him?

2)

but BBmolla, is also kinda ... scummmy. He seems, overconfident, and pleads not to be killled off.

So after you form suspicions on Random, you change your mind in the same post and vote for the person Random started a wagon on? Hmmm....

3)Then there are the reasons for voting BBmolla...
-Overconfidence isn't a scumtell.
-I've seen town plead not to be lynch before, but its usually more about RAGE. What's scummy about it is that BB was nowhere near getting hammered.

Because , i feel that your the most ... strangest !

-Unless this is gut, this doesn't even count. And gut isn't a very convincing argument anyways

Unvote:Vote: Redcolbalt

[/quote]

i did answer them ?
i said i wouldnt try to manipulate my own grandma into a plot to kill her.
I do attack him , but also defend him. I try to look on both sides, before i cast a vote.
I didnt change my mind, its bb than random. He would be my "FoS"
Well, thats why we all have guts ? I feel that i am on a good hunch and shall push my case, untill i am proven wrong.

[BBmolla]

I did a triple take on the above post before I realized it was just a misquote rofl.

I can't explain my feeling on Bo. Something just doesn't fit right.

[drmyshottyizsik]

.|Vote count 2|.

Haze-0
BBmolla-1(bvoigt)

Redcolbalt-2(ToastyToast, Redcolbalt)

L-3

SomeRandomGuy-1(Does Bo Know)
kad2361-0
Quackerz-1(SomeRandomGuy)
ToastyToast-0
Does Bo Know-0
bvoigt-0

Not Voting-4(Haze, Kad2361, Quackerz, BBmolla)

With 9 alive it takes 5 votes to lynch

If there are any problems tell me.

[Haze]

@Bv.

I didn't realise that what I was doing is known as rolefishing.

I also didn't realise that it was a scum tell.

[drmyshottyizsik]

zMuffinMan replaces DBK!

[ToastyToast]

@Bv.
I didn't realise that what I was doing is known as rolefishing.
I also didn't realise that it was a scum tell.

I didn't see the rolefish either, but it is very much anti-town. Unfortunately, town often do this anyway

[BBmolla]

I'm going to agree with this lynch unless anyone has any huge objections. If you do, please speak up.

Vote:Redcolbalt

[zMuffinMan]

I do.

Haven't read anything yet.

Wanna do a summary of why it's a good idea to lynch him right now?

I expect I'll find out some time during my read of the thread, but you can always earn some town points in my eyes and make my life easier. Or scum points, depending on what you have to say.

[BBmolla]

The logic I'm agreeing with and referring to is in post 92. Although in looking at it you'll just have to refer back to the rest of the discussion haha. Really though, it's not that much, take your time and read through it.