Newbie 1117(Town Wins)

For Newbie Games, which have a set format and experienced moderators. Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
bvoigt
bvoigt
Mafia Scum
bvoigt
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2256
Joined: September 18, 2010

Post Post #25 (ISO) » Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:47 am

Post by bvoigt »

@Toasty and SRG: I guess that's reasonable, although I don't think these particular questions will lead to much discussion.

1. I prefer being scum. Since town is more common, it's more exciting to be the bad guy. :twisted:
2. Nah, I couldn't murder my own grandma. :good:

SomeRandomGuy wrote:I think it ends once we have some leads Red.


Right...there's no time limit, but it's best to move on as soon as we can.
User avatar
Redcolbalt
Redcolbalt
Townie
User avatar
User avatar
Redcolbalt
Townie
Townie
Posts: 65
Joined: April 27, 2011
Location: East Coast , U.S. of A

Post Post #26 (ISO) » Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:50 am

Post by Redcolbalt »

If you would manipulate grandma, would u also try to manipulate other players ?
0/1/0


~<{T.O.B}>~
User avatar
SomeRandomGuy
SomeRandomGuy
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
SomeRandomGuy
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1199
Joined: October 14, 2010
Location: England

Post Post #27 (ISO) » Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:55 am

Post by SomeRandomGuy »

Redcolbalt wrote:If you would manipulate grandma, would u also try to manipulate other players ?


Absolutely, although i've no need to in this game due to my alignment. i wont state 'i am town' though since such is a redundant statement that everyone here will make for obvious reasons.
Town: 2-1
-=-
Scum 1-1

Alive in: 0
Dead in: 0 : Ongoing game
User avatar
BBmolla
BBmolla
Open Book
User avatar
User avatar
BBmolla
Open Book
Open Book
Posts: 24302
Joined: May 29, 2011

Post Post #28 (ISO) » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:09 am

Post by BBmolla »

Inc. wall of test.

Can I ask you guys something? Why do you RL d1? It's apparently a normal strategy here but I don't understand it.

I mean let's logically look at the possible outcomes:

Either 55% or 66% chance of hitting townie.
22% of hitting maf.
11% to 22% of hitting a PR.

So just judging by percentages we have just as much of a chance of hitting mafia as we do a power role.

Now let's get specific, if we RL maf they can either:
1. Claim a Power Role
2. Claim to be blue, probably proceeding with the RL anyway.(Maf dies)

Now if they do 1, then there are two more possibilties:
A. No CC
B. A CC

If A occurs it means:
C. The role does not exist within the game.
D. The role does not want to speak up.

If either C or D occur, a lynch would be unwise on an uncc'd PR. (Although, I haven't really seen the whole "role my not even exist" factor so idk about that)


If B occurs it means:
E. We lynch a mafia.(Maf dies)
F. We lynch a Power Role.(Maf lives)

Lynching a blue d1, which will undoubtedly happen, will just cause the town to be even more widdled down and allow the mafia to have a better chance of hitting a power role. The percent goes from 14%/28% to 17%/33%.

Attempting to lynch a PR will at least cause them to have to claim which, 66% of the games will cause them to die by getting killed by the mafia, 100% if they're doc. Of course jailer could jail them but then the doc/cop becomes a blue essentially.

You can find flaws in my logic, but going off of nothing seems to be more mafia beneficial.
@thesupertriomusical on Instagram, come see it if you’re in LA area, I wrote it!
User avatar
drmyshottyizsik
drmyshottyizsik
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
drmyshottyizsik
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 6872
Joined: July 2, 2010
Location: Under A Bus

Post Post #29 (ISO) » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:14 am

Post by drmyshottyizsik »

Hello all! I, your mod, will not have a computer until saturday very early in the morning. I am posting this from my phone. ToastyToast I don't mind if you start throwing votes arround, you are right, but none of the votes before this post count. It is now day 1. Deadline is in exactly 3 weeks from this post. Everybody have fun, play nice, and follow my rules :p.
#freeShotty
User avatar
ToastyToast
ToastyToast
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
ToastyToast
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3227
Joined: February 11, 2011
Location: Los Angeles

Post Post #30 (ISO) » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:17 am

Post by ToastyToast »

Not random lynch, random vote. First votes are rarely the reason for a lynch. I think your misunderstanding the process. A D1 lynch is always on someone who has garnered the most suspicion, not who people randomly voted at the beginning. Votes and questions both stimulate discussion that eventually leads to a lynch. You are thinking into it too much.

What do you suggest is done?

There can only be two PR max in this setup. A mafia with a power role claim leaves themselves in the open for two other people to claim their power.

Many flaws in your speculation. Sometimes mafia keeps a power role around for various reasons, such as they believe town will eventually lynch them or that their reads are terrible enough for keeping them around.

A random lynch is certainly anti-town, but thats not what we're doing here.
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac

Town: 12-10 (I think)
Mafia: 1-1
Third Party: 1-0
Alive in:0
Dead in:0
Modded: 2
User avatar
BBmolla
BBmolla
Open Book
User avatar
User avatar
BBmolla
Open Book
Open Book
Posts: 24302
Joined: May 29, 2011

Post Post #31 (ISO) » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:21 am

Post by BBmolla »

Also, sorry to double post but I can't find edit button... I don't see how the questions will help with determining role. I'm pretty sure someone would answer them the same regardless of role. A townie is not going to respond in a way that makes them look scummy and neither will a mafioso.

I'll answer them anyways, because I know that by not doing so I'll just get "OMG SCUM HE'S SCURRED OF ANSWERAN."

1. I prefer to play town, preferably a power role that's not investigative. AKA Doc or Bomb or such. Blue is difficult because I have to convince everyone I'm on their side when I don't know who I'm convincing and I have absolutely no way to convince them except by towntelling. Mafia is far more difficult because I have to actually convince people that the other people, whose roles they actually are, are mafia.

2. Realistically obviously I would just accept treats, nobody in the right mind would kill their grandma.
@thesupertriomusical on Instagram, come see it if you’re in LA area, I wrote it!
User avatar
BBmolla
BBmolla
Open Book
User avatar
User avatar
BBmolla
Open Book
Open Book
Posts: 24302
Joined: May 29, 2011

Post Post #32 (ISO) » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:23 am

Post by BBmolla »

ToastyToast wrote:Not random lynch, random vote. First votes are rarely the reason for a lynch. I think your misunderstanding the process. A D1 lynch is always on someone who has garnered the most suspicion, not who people randomly voted at the beginning. Votes and questions both stimulate discussion that eventually leads to a lynch. You are thinking into it too much.

What do you suggest is done?

There can only be two PR max in this setup. A mafia with a power role claim leaves themselves in the open for two other people to claim their power.

Many flaws in your speculation. Sometimes mafia keeps a power role around for various reasons, such as they believe town will eventually lynch them or that their reads are terrible enough for keeping them around.

A random lynch is certainly anti-town, but thats not what we're doing here.

I'm all down for a discussion, but if nothing has actually occured within the game what is their to discuss?

It's just different, I'll go with it, but don't expect me to lead any lynches d1.
@thesupertriomusical on Instagram, come see it if you’re in LA area, I wrote it!
User avatar
ToastyToast
ToastyToast
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
ToastyToast
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3227
Joined: February 11, 2011
Location: Los Angeles

Post Post #33 (ISO) » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:29 am

Post by ToastyToast »

Exactly. RVS and RQS GIVE something to discuss, which is why its a relatively common start (at least on this site).

Answered the questions despite not liking them: bbmolla +townpoints
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac

Town: 12-10 (I think)
Mafia: 1-1
Third Party: 1-0
Alive in:0
Dead in:0
Modded: 2
User avatar
SomeRandomGuy
SomeRandomGuy
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
SomeRandomGuy
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1199
Joined: October 14, 2010
Location: England

Post Post #34 (ISO) » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:35 am

Post by SomeRandomGuy »

ToastyToast wrote:Exactly. RVS and RQS GIVE something to discuss, which is why its a relatively common start (at least on this site).

Answered the questions despite not liking them: bbmolla +townpoints


Answering questions with the reason 'so i don't appear to be scum' Bbmolla: + scumpoints
Town: 2-1
-=-
Scum 1-1

Alive in: 0
Dead in: 0 : Ongoing game
User avatar
SomeRandomGuy
SomeRandomGuy
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
SomeRandomGuy
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1199
Joined: October 14, 2010
Location: England

Post Post #35 (ISO) » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:38 am

Post by SomeRandomGuy »

Also, sorry to double post but I can't find edit button...


You can't edit, it's to stop people removing any slips they may have made in their previous posts. Making double posts is fine just begin it with 'EBOW' (edit by way of post) if you wish.

Oh
VOTE: Bbmolla
Town: 2-1
-=-
Scum 1-1

Alive in: 0
Dead in: 0 : Ongoing game
User avatar
ToastyToast
ToastyToast
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
ToastyToast
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3227
Joined: February 11, 2011
Location: Los Angeles

Post Post #36 (ISO) » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:53 am

Post by ToastyToast »

touche, but it comes off as genuine submission to something he's opposed to
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac

Town: 12-10 (I think)
Mafia: 1-1
Third Party: 1-0
Alive in:0
Dead in:0
Modded: 2
User avatar
Does Bo Know
Does Bo Know
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Does Bo Know
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 4875
Joined: January 31, 2011

Post Post #37 (ISO) » Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:32 pm

Post by Does Bo Know »

1) I prefer playing town. This way, there's no reason to lie.

2) I'll take the candy. Killing grandma would be an act of impatience, and impatience isn't something people should have a lot of.

I basically agree with Random. BBmolla is answering the question so he won't be called Mafia. I'm answering the questions so discussion can be started among every player, and ToastyToast has stated multiple times that he wants discussion with these questions. I don't think anyone else gave a selfish reason to answer the questions more than BBmolla.

I'll also
Vote: BBmolla
.
Town: 11-12; Scum: 10-4; Third-party 1-0
User avatar
ToastyToast
ToastyToast
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
ToastyToast
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3227
Joined: February 11, 2011
Location: Los Angeles

Post Post #38 (ISO) » Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:49 pm

Post by ToastyToast »

@Bo: would your reaction be any different if he just didn't answer the questions?

BBmolla wrote:It's just different, I'll go with it, but don't expect me to lead any lynches d1.

This is a scummier statement. What do you suggest is done on d1, if there is no scum-hunting? A no lynch? Having no opinions on people is generally very bad town-play, especially if you don't take a stance on anyone.

@RandomGuy: Do you find bv's more subtle dislike of the questions to be suspicious? BB basicaly said he's only answering the questions so he doesn't look scummy, but Bv said he doesn't see a purpose and answers them anyway.

@everyone else: say more so I can start to for a read on you :D
"A train robbery is where you take a train to your destination, make your move, and take a train back, right?"-Isaac

Town: 12-10 (I think)
Mafia: 1-1
Third Party: 1-0
Alive in:0
Dead in:0
Modded: 2
User avatar
BBmolla
BBmolla
Open Book
User avatar
User avatar
BBmolla
Open Book
Open Book
Posts: 24302
Joined: May 29, 2011

Post Post #39 (ISO) » Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:02 pm

Post by BBmolla »

Alright, despite being number 1 FoS for most of you, at some point could you all give a second FoS? I'm a terrible scumhunter, and I'd like to avoid OMGUSing.

I'd prefer to no lynch, but it's simply from past games at other places. No lynch and Random Lynch have their benefits, it's essentially the difference between entering the lottery and not entering the lottery. Not entering, you'll never lose, but you'll never win.

Either way, had I said "I refuse to answer these questions" or the what I did say, the disagreement with the questions would seem scummy.

Gonna wait for more posts. Don't hammer on me if it comes to it.
@thesupertriomusical on Instagram, come see it if you’re in LA area, I wrote it!
User avatar
SomeRandomGuy
SomeRandomGuy
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
SomeRandomGuy
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1199
Joined: October 14, 2010
Location: England

Post Post #40 (ISO) » Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:17 pm

Post by SomeRandomGuy »

Gah, just posted a rather long response and the forum errored out on me, fantastic! :P.

General jist:

Not liking the questions is fine, they're obscure, they don't in themselves give out much information and the second question which is essentially: would you take what your offered or form a mafia sized group to kill your gran was a joke. I was more interested in seeing the reaction to them being asked than the answers, at least in some way. The first question is meant to cover the usual 'How many games have you played / have you played before' for the people who don't have it in their sigs. Feeling the questions give no information and disliking them? Fine.

The quote you've given from BBmolla is something I had noticed and was going to bring up - It's a scummy statement to make. I don't know right now, nor did i when i started my focus on BBmolla whether or not he is scum, he could well be town and if he flipped town later in the game someone reading back on this may feel my case on him was scummy simply because he's town but i'm not scared to push the ideas because of my alignment, I'm certainly not going to rush into getting him lynched until there's a decent case - or at least one that's better than anything on anyone else.

I'm pretty sure someone would answer them the same regardless of role. A townie is not going to respond in a way that makes them look scummy and neither will a mafioso.


Who do you think is going to be more scared of appearing scummy BBmolla? We need to find a slip up somewhere, how do you suggest we do that, if not for random questions, random votes and discussion? So far what i have on you is the following: You've answered something to not appear scummy and you're not willing to push someone.

You say you don't want to see a random Lynch (as all town don't and even scum to an extent) but at the start of the game there is little information, this IS discussion, now where from here? Any questions for anybody? Anything you'd like someone to clarify? you need to look with the rest of us or we'll run out of leads.

Don't worry, you're no where close to being hammered right now. The problem with a no-lynch is that if we do that, the scum get a free night kill, when we should be using this day to create something.

If we lynch a scum member, we can look at who they buddied with / went against for more information
If we lynch a townsperson we can look at who pushed for that, who seemed to go with it but without adding to it / looking else where and generally who didn't seem to naturally believe the case.

We lose neither way vs a no lynch in my mind, since we get information. If we didn't have that, the scum could just kill off the least interactive player and we'd have no leads going into day 2, basically being in the same situation as now with slightly better odds.
Town: 2-1
-=-
Scum 1-1

Alive in: 0
Dead in: 0 : Ongoing game
User avatar
SomeRandomGuy
SomeRandomGuy
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
SomeRandomGuy
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1199
Joined: October 14, 2010
Location: England

Post Post #41 (ISO) » Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:46 pm

Post by SomeRandomGuy »

Anyhow, i really don't want to get too tunneled on this right now, still waiting for some players to jump in so:

VOTE: Quackerz
Town: 2-1
-=-
Scum 1-1

Alive in: 0
Dead in: 0 : Ongoing game
bvoigt
bvoigt
Mafia Scum
bvoigt
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2256
Joined: September 18, 2010

Post Post #42 (ISO) » Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:07 pm

Post by bvoigt »

SomeRandomGuy wrote:Anyhow, i really don't want to get too tunneled on this right now, still waiting for some players to jump in so:

VOTE: Quackerz


VOTE: SomeRandomGuy

How is it pro-town to return to a random vote when you already have legitimate suspicions?
User avatar
SomeRandomGuy
SomeRandomGuy
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
SomeRandomGuy
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1199
Joined: October 14, 2010
Location: England

Post Post #43 (ISO) » Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:22 pm

Post by SomeRandomGuy »

bvoigt wrote:
SomeRandomGuy wrote:Anyhow, i really don't want to get too tunneled on this right now, still waiting for some players to jump in so:

VOTE: Quackerz


VOTE: SomeRandomGuy

How is it pro-town to return to a random vote when you already have legitimate suspicions?


Because my case is well and truly made, i have no where else to go with it right now until he responds, what i don't want to do is narrow the game to a single line of investigation. As it stands i will be putting my vote back onto BBmolla as i believe his thoughts and responses have been nothing but scummy. I'm hoping seeing a vote on himself Quackerz will join in. I want more than one lead to go with in this day phase.
Town: 2-1
-=-
Scum 1-1

Alive in: 0
Dead in: 0 : Ongoing game
bvoigt
bvoigt
Mafia Scum
bvoigt
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2256
Joined: September 18, 2010

Post Post #44 (ISO) » Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:32 pm

Post by bvoigt »

SomeRandomGuy wrote:
bvoigt wrote:
SomeRandomGuy wrote:Anyhow, i really don't want to get too tunneled on this right now, still waiting for some players to jump in so:

VOTE: Quackerz


VOTE: SomeRandomGuy

How is it pro-town to return to a random vote when you already have legitimate suspicions?


Because my case is well and truly made, i have no where else to go with it right now until he responds, what i don't want to do is narrow the game to a single line of investigation. As it stands i will be putting my vote back onto BBmolla as i believe his thoughts and responses have been nothing but scummy. I'm hoping seeing a vote on himself Quackerz will join in. I want more than one lead to go with in this day phase.


So, the Quackerz vote is basically pressure to provide content. But wouldn't a BBmolla vote create more pressure, and be more useful, because it is for a serious reason?
bvoigt
bvoigt
Mafia Scum
bvoigt
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2256
Joined: September 18, 2010

Post Post #45 (ISO) » Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:33 pm

Post by bvoigt »

Well, lurking is a somewhat serious reason, but it's a null tell IMO.
User avatar
SomeRandomGuy
SomeRandomGuy
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
SomeRandomGuy
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1199
Joined: October 14, 2010
Location: England

Post Post #46 (ISO) » Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:39 pm

Post by SomeRandomGuy »

BBmolla is already feeling the pressure, he already mentioned about 'not hammering' despite being no where close, I'm not just going to drop the argument against him since my vote has changed for the time being and actually hoped that removing my vote for now might actually make BBmolla feel a little less under scrutiny and post more, hopefully without thinking too much. It would allow for more chances of slip ups and similarly chance for him to get rid of some of the suspicion.

It's not like removing my vote here can even take away the fact that i built this case, pushed for it (and will continue doing so) I wasn't exactly subtle as i built it and reading back would show exactly who started this, namely me if he's lynched and flips town, even if he ended up lynched and i hadn't put my vote back on him, i couldn't claim innocence and it's not like i've switched position on him either.

I realise it can seem scummy, but at this point in time, i want more leads, BBMolla will give us more information as time goes on anyway, with or without pressure, i just feel that if others are not pressured too, we may find ourselves stuck afterwards.
Town: 2-1
-=-
Scum 1-1

Alive in: 0
Dead in: 0 : Ongoing game
User avatar
Does Bo Know
Does Bo Know
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Does Bo Know
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 4875
Joined: January 31, 2011

Post Post #47 (ISO) » Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:47 pm

Post by Does Bo Know »

ToastyToast wrote:@Bo: would your reaction be any different if he just didn't answer the questions?

I'd simply ask why BBmolla didn't answer the questions. The fact that he stated he answered them so no one would call him scum is a little...selfish. Don't know if that's the right word, but saying that instead of agreeing that it brings on more discussion isn't pro-town to me.

BBmolla: I actually had something to say here, but Random covered all of it quite nicely, and then some. I'll just add that this is a newbie game, and if you find something you think is a scumtell, go ahead with it; don't withdraw if you're unsure, because confidence is important when trying to find scum.

Random: Your next post after the big analysis on BBmolla took me by surprise. In fact, the
biggest
thing I hate about RVS is when someone suspects another, yet their vote is on someone for a worse or totally random reason.

So, BBmolla, I just figured out that Random is my second FoS after reading your most recent post. There you go.

Ninja'd: Random, you just stated you have a great case on BBmolla. So why isn't your vote on the person you most suspect? Just because your vote is on one person doesn't mean you can't question other people. There's
always
something else to look for even if you keep your vote and your case on your prime suspect.

Yeah, I was going to keep my vote on BBmolla after this post, but since the Ninja'd post, I'm going to change that.
Vote: SomeRandomGuy


Ninja'd to the Max: Hold on. I just made this post before the forum went down (for me, at least), so let me organize more thoughts from the most recent posts.
Town: 11-12; Scum: 10-4; Third-party 1-0
User avatar
Does Bo Know
Does Bo Know
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Does Bo Know
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 4875
Joined: January 31, 2011

Post Post #48 (ISO) » Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:56 pm

Post by Does Bo Know »

So, let's make this clear, Random: Is BBmolla still your prime suspect right now? I just want a yes or a no, please.

SomeRandomGuy wrote:I realise it can seem scummy, but at this point in time, i want more leads,
BBMolla will give us more information as time goes on anyway, with or without pressure
, i just feel that if others are not pressured too, we may find ourselves stuck afterwards.


Quackerz can give us more information with or without pressure.
Anyone
can give us more information with or without pressure. If you want more leads, just let players speak, and we
will
find more. It's the nature of Mafia. We don't need worthless votes thrown around.

NOTE: Oh. My. God. Almost every time I hit Preview, I end up getting told that there's an error on the site. Unrelated to this game, has anyone else been experiencing troubles with the site recently?

Okay, I'm done.
Town: 11-12; Scum: 10-4; Third-party 1-0
User avatar
SomeRandomGuy
SomeRandomGuy
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
SomeRandomGuy
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1199
Joined: October 14, 2010
Location: England

Post Post #49 (ISO) » Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:26 pm

Post by SomeRandomGuy »

I've been getting issues tonight also, yeah it seems every couple of hours.

Yes, BBMolla is my primary and in fact currently single suspect - I actually wanted to see how he reacted once the pressure eased up a little as he's had it on him (in his eyes) from the very start of the game since he was my RVS target. I want to gauge his reaction to a little bit of breathing room and see if anything can come from that.

I realise why the votes have turned to me, in retrospec perhaps moving my vote was not the best idea but i maintain my motives for doing so, which were completely town. I've not tried to distance myself from my case on MBBolla in any way.

What I don't want to happen here is the people who have so far not posted to come in, agree with the BBmolla case, put their vote there and just coast through the day, so aswell as wanting to BBMolla's play with a little less pressure i want to see them coming in with some on them too. RVS / RQS ended VERY quickly in this game, not everybody 'got a go' and i believe we have something solid on BBMolla right now but i do not want to see the things i just mentioned happening and I do not want a complete tunnel.

If you don't like that i moved my vote I can understand that, I'm certainly not going to go with a OMGUS reaction but you should at least consider my reasonings (if i am town) are completely viable.
Town: 2-1
-=-
Scum 1-1

Alive in: 0
Dead in: 0 : Ongoing game

Return to “The Road to Rome [Newbie Games]”