Mini 1186: Repo! The Genetic Mafia - Game Over!

[Haylen]

I'm going to try and get my head round this tomorrow. The first bit's right though!

[Haylen]

Anyway, TripMyWire was on around the same time I was earlier this morning and didn't post in the thread despite the fact that the mod sent PMs to everyone saying that the game had started. I thought it was a good choice for a vote as a result.

But in my eyes that means nothing, there are any number of reasons why a person wouldn't post. But i think I'm deviating from the point because you clearly did explain yourself.

Unvote. Vote camn

I FoS'd camn earlier, now I'm removing my vote from Incog, I thought it would be better placed there.

[Green Crayons]

Incog:

- Please explain or contextualize links. A single sentence will suffice. I would like to evaluate your expressly made explanations without filling in the gaps on my own.
- How do you feel about Trip's explanation? Does it fit into your "one reservation?"

---

camn:

- I vote no on mass name claims generally.
- I vote no on mass name claims at this time.
- How can you qualify a 39-post game, a little over 24 hours as having begun, as lacking action?
- How is a mass name claim at this point in time supposed to help the town?

---

bvoight:

- Why did you vote Trip in the first place? I'm not asking for the underlying reason (Incog's observation) but for what was your motivation in voting Trip.

[camn]

Unvote. Vote camn

I FoS'd camn earlier, now I'm removing my vote from Incog, I thought it would be better placed there.

very carefully pointing out that this is in no way sheeping incog.

Speaking of incogs link: I had something to hide in that game.
I was lying in the very post you linked.
This game is much different ...

And GC: I don't actually think there would be any town benefit to mass nameclaim... But there certainly is to me ASKING about it.
And I've been playing speedy games lately. Plus I hydra'd with DGB. I will try and settle down.

[Incognito]

To contextualize:

- In the camn-link, I'm showing a past game where the idea of a mass name claim was floated around and a camn town was strongly opposed to it. In our current game, she now seems to be pro-mass name claim. I'm trying to figure out why there's a difference.

- In the Haylen-link, I'm showing a past game where I actually voted someone without listing reasons and a Haylen town (IN HER VERY NEXT POST) quickly followed my vote and placed a vote on the same guy I reasonless voted for. In this game she's claiming that she both a) finds reasonless votes scummy and b) wouldn't follow my vote if I didn't provide a reason for it. It makes me think she's not being sincere.

- How do you feel about Trip's explanation? Does it fit into your "one reservation?"

Not to crazy about it. It's not like the random vote that Trip did eventually place after becoming unbusy could have been all that time-consuming; it wasn't exactly groundbreaking or anything along those lines.
My "reservation" was me thinking that maybe the "Who's Online" list wasn't being accurate, but Trip's admitting that he did get the PM but chose not to post anyway, which tosses that out the window.

[Medicated Lain]

I know trip, and he's often busy at work. I'm inclined to believe that it wasn't scum lurking, and just a case of mafia being open in the background.
I FoSed because I guess I generally don't take voting very lightly. But it got what I wanted, just more in detail of what you were thinking. Your point is clear now, and reading again, you phrased your question pretty clearly in the first place. Was Magua just not paying attention to what you asked? That's a pretty interesting thing to hint at in day one, not sure if I'd call it scummy.

Seriously Camn, mass claim first day? That's no fun at all! I'm thinking I'll keep my vote here for a while.

[camn]

mass NAME claim. A very different thing.

You are against it then? Why?

[TripMyWire]

I didn't realize your 'serious vote' was actually serious.

I don't really see why not.

Probably because the opening posts involving random voting are full of facetious comments... I just attributed it to that because at that point, nothing had been said. With no explanation, I had no reason to think more of it.

My "reservation" was me thinking that maybe the "Who's Online" list wasn't being accurate, but Trip's admitting that he did get the PM but chose not to post anyway, which tosses that out the window.

I'm surprised that this is an issue at all. How exactly would it be a 'scumtell' anyway? I don't see how posting immediately makes someone seem more town.

just a case of mafia being open in the background.

This is exactly the case. I'm always at a computer and I often keep mafiascum open in a tab in my browser.

[PeregrineV]

To contextualize:

- In the camn-link, I'm showing a past game where the idea of a mass name claim was floated around and a camn town was strongly opposed to it. In our current game, she now seems to be pro-mass name claim. I'm trying to figure out why there's a difference.

- In the Haylen-link, I'm showing a past game where I actually voted someone without listing reasons and a Haylen town (IN HER VERY NEXT POST) quickly followed my vote and placed a vote on the same guy I reasonless voted for. In this game she's claiming that she both a) finds reasonless votes scummy and b) wouldn't follow my vote if I didn't provide a reason for it. It makes me think she's not being sincere.

- How do you feel about Trip's explanation? Does it fit into your "one reservation?"

Not to crazy about it. It's not like the random vote that Trip did eventually place after becoming unbusy could have been all that time-consuming; it wasn't exactly groundbreaking or anything along those lines.
My "reservation" was me thinking that maybe the "Who's Online" list wasn't being accurate, but Trip's admitting that he did get the PM but chose not to post anyway, which tosses that out the window.

Starting to feel a little pulled out of RVS. Most well-presented meta case based on other games I've seen in a while.

Unvote.
Vote:Haylen

[Green Crayons]

I'm surprised that this is an issue at all. How exactly would it be a 'scumtell' anyway? I don't see how posting immediately makes someone seem more town.

It is the delayed posting that is the scummy tell. It doesn't go the other way for a town read as you're suggesting. At least not for me. Speaking purely from personal experience (so thus of limited use), being their own biggest critics, scum second guess their posts. So scum will delay posting for the "best time" to interject into the conversation as to avoid suspicion.

I'm sure other players play scum differently, but I find the timing of posts as being one of the most difficult aspects when playing scum. Delayed posting is a frequent tactic to pace myself so as to help diffuse the conversation and potentially open up a strategic avenue (topic, timing, vote, etc.). Regardless, my own interest behind Incog's vote in principle has cooled significantly considering the explanation and context.

---

Most well-presented meta case based on other games I've seen in a while.

Unvote.
Vote:Haylen

I actually think Incog's "meta case" on Haylen is weak. Relative to the camn case, I think it's the weaker of the two. I'm willing to explain why (I don't think it's necessary at this point, especially before Haylen has said anything on the matter), but I'm curious about why you think the exact opposite. Why do you think that it's one of the most well presented meta cases you've seen in some time?

---

Speaking of incogs link: I had something to hide in that game.
I was lying in the very post you linked.
This game is much different ...

Please explain what you had to hide and what you were lying about. You don't have to go into great detail, just some context for your comments, please. Otherwise I don't know what the hell you two are talking about so I have no basis to make any sort of judgment. I'm sure others are in the same position. I spent two minutes looking at the beginning and end page of that game and there was no master player/role list that I saw. I really don't enjoy searching through other games to figure out the context of accusations/defenses in the game I'm playing. /grumpy

[Medicated Lain]

mass NAME claim. A very different thing.

You are against it then? Why?

A mass claim is so much more helpful towards scum than it is towards town. Repo is certainly a movie where we can speculate who might have what role and be scum, but that doesn't mean it would be in line with the game mechanics. Assuming our mod mixed up the roles, the mafia will know who each other are, and based on names, they could have a much easier time figuring out who are power roles versus who are not. This reeks of looking for night kills.

[Incognito]

@Trip: It's along the lines of what GC said - most scum often have to THINK more about what they'd like to say before they post it. Most town don't have that same kind of problem.

Anywho, any thoughts about what's been going on now outside of that early stuff?

@camn: You look like you're backtracking pretty hard. You don't think there's any pro-town benefit towards mass name claiming but you somehow knew there would definitely be benefit to ASKING about it? That's your defense?

Relative to the camn case, I think it's the weaker of the two.

Please explain what you had to hide and what you were lying about. You don't have to go into great detail, just some context for your comments, please.

Otherwise I don't know what the hell you two are talking about so I have no basis to make any sort of judgment.

How do these two match up?

[InflatablePie]

VC #2 - The Little Glass Vial Votecount

Haylen (3): Yosarian2, Incognito, PeregrineV
camn (3): Medicated Lain, bvoigt, Haylen
Magua (1): camn
MehPlusRawr (1): TripMyWire
Yosarian2 (1): Magua
Battle Mage (1): Green Crayons
Not Voting (3): MehPlusRawr, Pine, Battle Mage

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch or 7 to No Lynch.
Deadline is at 10 AM Eastern on July 1st.
Please notify me of any votecount mistakes.

[camn]

It's no defense, incog. This game needed some action. I am a RVS breaker
Plus I have been suggesting it in every game lately.

It seems interesting to me that you are not actually RESEARCHING Me from a meta perspective, but instead you just use the games you happen to remember.
I am not sure of the significance of this... But ima think about it.
Is it that "meta" is just a means to an end? That you don't actually care if I am playing "consistent" with my whatever-meta... But rather it is a nice hook to justify a vote?

Hmm.

[Magua]

I was pretty sure Magua was joking around but whatever.

The "very serious" is in relation to "not daykilling Camn if she votes for Yosarian." Not to actually confirming I have a daykill.

I don't really see the difference there.
I mean, the above obviously implies that if camn DOESN'T vote Yosarian2 she could be daykilled by you.
Unless you're saying you'd be equally "very serious" about "not daykilling camn if she

doesn't

vote for Yosarian2" as well which is pretty weasel word-ish.

How does the first part jive with the second part? Or do you not get the part that the "implication" is, in fact, the joke?

@camn:

Since you've said the mass nameclaim doesn't help the town but asking about it does, can you explain for those of us who are slow (ie, me) how?

VOTE: Peregrine

#58 is terribad lazyposting.

[bvoigt]

Unvote. Vote camn

I FoS'd camn earlier, now I'm removing my vote from Incog, I thought it would be better placed there.

This explanation gives me a bad gut feeling. Why do you need to mention that you FoS'ed her earlier?

- Why did you vote Trip in the first place? I'm not asking for the underlying reason (Incog's observation) but for what was your motivation in voting Trip.

Since my previous vote was random, I figured a somewhat serious vote would be more useful and provide more pressure.

[camn]

Actually, let me lay it out. See what people think.

INCOG'S META CASE AGAINST ME:

This game needs some action.

Anyone feel like a mass-nameclaim?

- In the camn-link, I'm showing a past game where the idea of a mass name claim was floated around and a camn town was strongly opposed to it. In our current game, she now seems to be pro-mass name claim. I'm trying to figure out why there's a difference..

Spoiler: WHY I was opposed in 2008

Why FL, and none of the other non-nameclaims??
Why does Tar demand a nameclaim here, and here only?

This slightly bothers me.
But this whole massclaim thing has bothered me.

But I guess I have to play.
To the best of my knowledge, I am not a cylon.

FOS: ELMO

for engineering this massclaim thing so early. I think it tells us much less than we think. . . and gives the scum a lot of targets.
Hopefully it will work out.

And for Clarity.. I don't want nameclaims from

ANYONE

. but It is curious that Tar demanded a nameclaim from FL... and not from any of the others.

Well.

I guess I better head this one off at the pass.

I lied about being human.
I am a cylon.

Any questions?

OK.

I will full claim now.
I was afraid to day 1 for obvious reasons.. and TBH, I am afraid to now.

BUT.. I am kind of glad my hand has been forced.. though this is only going to make this game stranger. I will stick to factual information in this post, and save analysis for later.

I am one of the Five.
I am Samuel Anders, which I breadcrumbed with my first post.
I AM affiliated with the fleet. I received no indication that I was into "unification". My place is with the Fleet.
I am a Jailkeeper, though that wasn't what my PM called it. That is I roleblock and protect.

Now for the weird part.

I have detained Tarlahindur/Kison exclusively every night, this entire game.

Any more questions?

THE META THAT HE LEFT OUT: MY LAST TWO THEME GAMES

blue is mine

Hmm. I'll let this mason-biz ride for today, though confirmed is obv not really confirmed.

UNVOTE

Some questions:

1) Mass nameclaim, anyone? Wanna lock down scum fakeclaims early on?

2) Empking - are you post restricted as well?

Some answers:
1) I know every detail, seraphim.
2) Yes, the following is totally scummy:

Seems to me that my actions scream town.

*shrugs*

.

VOTE: HELLLLOOONEWMAN

Hmm . RVS votes. Do not like.
And random number voting?? you feeling LUCKY? you think you can throw dice and find scum?
Do not like.

That said- I am sitting here listening to some Latin-type tunes,

thinking we should all nameclaim. Not NOW... but soon

. Today. I would like to lock the scum into their fakeclaims early on, assuming they have any.
Doing it today precludes any night-talk coordination.

But, I welcome the rest of the town's input on this. I am not married to the idea.

Oh, and

VOTE: ACRONACH

dicerolls are scummy.

@ MAgua: I have been successfully breaking out of the RVS lately by suggesting mass nameclaim. In none of my recent games have we actually DONE it. This game, I didnt even

suggest

doing it.. but I knew it would draw some heat, some discussion, and some action.
The interesting thing to me is Incog's meta-attack... and I wonder what other people think of it.
Is a lazy, noncomrehensive, out-of-date attack a town-motivated attack? Or is it scummeriffic?
Incog... what do YOU say about this? An isolated data point from 2008? really?

[Magua]

camn, I dub you town.

[Incognito]

Camn, was I pushing your lynch using that single data point?
No.
I remembered something that happened in the past that made me think you were being inconsistent, and I voted you for it to turn up the pressure and to get some answers.
You should know my playstyle by now; when I see something that I notice as being off, I prod and probe it to try and find out what's going on.
Why would you think me pointing that out is scummerific of me?
I'd think it'd be more scummerific of me to let something like that just go.

Anywho, now that you've brought up some more recent stuff, fair enough on the stuff I brought up on the past then.

FYI, I'd argue that this game never even HAD an RVS, so I don't think you needed to ask that kind of question to break us out of anything, but I guess that's beside the point.

How does the first part jive with the second part? Or do you not get the part that the "implication" is, in fact, the joke?

Maybe I'm missing something 'cause I still don't get it.

[Incognito]

Hmmm, where the heck are MehPlusRawr and Pine?

[InflatablePie]

Guess who forgot to do prods this morning!

MPR and Pine are being prodded.

Turns out they're not proddable for 24 hours. I fail at counting days; it's been a long weekend. :(

[bvoigt]

Well, I guess the nameclaim point is no longer valid. I don't think it makes Incognito scummy, though. If he's played with camn before, he probably isn't going to bother checking her attitudes toward nameclaim in recent games.

UNVOTE: camn
VOTE: Haylen

[camn]

Someone needs to have his own opinion.

UNVOTE
Vote: bvoigth

[Pine]

I forgot to bookmark this thread, so I didn't realize it was live.

VOTE: camn

I don't care if you did it as Town. Mass nameclaiming at this point in the day is an anti-Town suggestion. Don't ever do that as Town again.

FOS: Incognito

: Weird first couple of posts, then the dice-rolling to decide who was scummier. Not liking it.

[camn]

As if I am taking suggestions from YOU regarding what is town play.

My eye sockets cannot contain the depth of my eye rolling.