Newbie 1120 - The Scum in Sherlock (Over!)

[Hellhound1]

as long as I'm right about cloudocean?

I really hope you are right about cloudocean, he seems the most logical choice, for me, atm. He's tried to twist our words, and contradicted himself.
So if he isnt, ill be mightily surprised..

[Hellhound1]

At the moment that is, obviously im not tying myself down on the second day..

[Thor665]

Contradiction isn't a very reliable scumtell in my opinion.

[hitogoroshi]

Vote Count #4

cloudocean:

Thor665,

ninjacheese

, Hellhound1, (L-3)

Thor665:

Scumhunter, cloudocean (L-3)

Hellhound1

: hiplop

Not Voting:

startransmission, Swag136, Awesoma, ninjacheese

Deadline is on July 6th, 2011, at 2PM Central Time.

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

***

hiplop is V/LA until June 19th.

[Hellhound1]

Contradiction isn't a very reliable scumtell in my opinion.

I do believe he used it as a way of calling you scum?

[cloudocean]

@ninjacheese

Show me where I've misquoted someone/taken something out of context.

@Hellhound1

Show me where I've contradicted myself.

@Thor665

1. If I were scum why would I attract attention to myself (revoting, prolonging explanation)?
2. Why would I even prolong the explanation as scum? What purpose does it serve me?

[cloudocean]

@Hellhound1 and Ninjacheese

Point me towards some of Thor665's "constructive posts."

If that's not why you think he's town then explain why

[Hellhound1]

2. Awesoma: Makes decisions based on past roles. Contradicted self (see #4 under Awesoma in this post). Buddied Thor. = Leaning scum.
3. Ninja: Was buddied by Thor --> leaning town. No need for scum to buddy their own partners so early on...

A contradiction.

And because so far, since that change of mind, you havent really been scum hunting, just defending yourself as much as possible. Which i believe is a scummy thing to do.

[cloudocean]

... There is no contradiction ...

Ninja was buddied by Thor literally three posts in... Awesoma buddied Thor by BW'ing a few posts after saying "I think we should be careful!" (i.e. Awesoma's buddying was contradictory to a statement he made before and opportunistic) ... notice the statement in #3 - "so early on."

... Me defending myself is scummy ...? What? So am I not supposed to defend myself? Would that be more townie?

I also have been scumhunting. Notice how I went after Thor for his contradiction and awesoma for reasons given. I would love to see a comparative analysis between your posts and mine to see who has done more scumhunting.

[Thor665]

Contradiction isn't a very reliable scumtell in my opinion.

I do believe he used it as a way of calling you scum?

He did, though I showed how it wasn;'t a contradiction at all. Still, contradictions are an advanced level of scumhunting in my experience and need to be used carefully. More often than not they catch people with faulty mental processes, not scum.

@ninjacheese

Show me where I've misquoted someone/taken something out of context.

I'm glad Hellhound reposted it for me - I'm really starting to buy into my accusation to you that you're not actually reading the thread.

@Thor665

1. If I were scum why would I attract attention to myself (revoting, prolonging explanation)?
2. Why would I even prolong the explanation as scum? What purpose does it serve me?

1. If you were town why would you attract attention to yourself (revoting, prolonging explanation)? I don't consider it optimal scum play, and if I was scum I wouldn't have done it. But I'm not sure that you play perfect scum games, so I don't actually see the relevance of this line of questioning. I've explained why I think what you did was scummy, either attack that or don't.

2. Wow, this is the first question in a different vein...plus I've already answered this one. I think you prolonged the explanation because you needed to invent the explanation because you didn't have an explanation.

[Thor665]

Ninja was buddied by Thor literally three posts in... Awesoma buddied Thor by BW'ing a few posts after saying "I think we should be careful!" (i.e. Awesoma's buddying was contradictory to a statement he made before and opportunistic) ... notice the statement in #3 - "so early on."

So...is it Awesoma's buddying that is scummy...or is it the contradiction that is scummy? What am I missing?

[Hellhound1]

Then, cloudocean, do you think either Thor or Awesoma are scum?

No but you defended yourself by twisting what we said, thats not very innocent is it?

and it turned out thor didnt have a contradiction and Awesome... well idk about them yet.

[cloudocean]

@Thor665

1. Your accusation doesn't make any sense. In my opinion, I haven't misquoted anyone taken something out of context. Prove me wrong.
2. I'm glad you brought this up. I didn't think me re-voting would be that big of a deal - and even if it were, I figured I could just explain my thought process. I prolonged my explanation because I hoped that people (read: you) would get a hint and wait until I had finished my attempts to get a newb BW going (to draw better reactions). I'd love to attack your reasoning but it doesn't exist... you called my explanation "silly" and "obvious" but that just ignores it without actually refuting it. Nice try though.
3. I find it interesting that you have admitted it's not optimal scum play. I think that the relevance of this questioning is quite blatant and obvious. I'm not saying that I'm the perfect player, but it doesn't really take an IQ of 200 to not attract attention as scum.
4. It took me 3 hours to come up with an explanation? If I were scum then wouldn't I have an explanation prepared to give right away - just in case? I'd like to point out my explanation isn't exactly unbelievable. It seems pretty logical to me. Do you think that an IC-scum would probably know how to react to a BW more than a newbie?

Your line of reasoning seems pretty weak to me. I also find it interesting that you don't FoS Awesoma, considering he buddied you and is making decisions based upon previous games. Looks like you're trying to push an "easy" lynch to me.

[cloudocean]

@Thor665

.............. His contradiction is interrelated to his buddying ..... I'll break it down for you:
- Awesoma says that he'll reserve his vote until he gets more information
- A couple of posts later, he votes me for the sake of joining the BW
- This is opportunistic (<-- Do I have to explain that to you?)
- His reasoning contradicts the statement he made before. (i.e. "We should be careful!" --> "Welp, might as well vote!"

@Hellhound1

I. Gave. A. Read. Where. I. Said. I. Thought. They. Were. Scum.

You still haven't show me how I've twisted your words.

Show me how Thor didn't contradict himself.... and how do you not have a read on Awesoma yet? Do you think making decisions based on previous games is townie?

[Thor665]

.............. His contradiction is interrelated to his buddying .....

Earlier you said he was scummy because he was buddying. Are you saying now that his buddying isn't scummy...or is it? This is a simple question I would think.

Show me how Thor didn't contradict himself....

I already did this.

Here is you explaining the "contradiction."

you said that I wasn't scummy until after I refused to explain my revote.

Here is what I actually said.

it wasn't that scummy until you couldn't explain it right away. Now it's more scummy.

In your version I "said" you weren't scummy until you refused to explain.
In my version I said you were scummy in a lesser way that became more scummy when you refused to explain.

Totally different meaning.
You made up my contradiction in your own head by either lying to us, or not reading carefully enough. Let me know which it was.

[Hellhound1]

Lemme refer you to post #27
and for your second point, to post #60

As far as im concerned, Awesoma is leaning town, Thor IS town, and you're leaning scum. Although im waiting for ninjacheese and the others who havent yet posted, to post.

[startransmission]

Well, a brief RVS. Didn't get to participate, but oh well. Nice to have things underway early. Don't have the ample time I thought I would, but a few things.


The argument between cloud and thor is a bit ridiculous. I need to read it again to form a better opinion and explain my thoughts on each player in a decent amount of detail. I will say that skimming through is painful, and either they are both town or they are both scum. I might change my POV upon a more in depth read through, but it seems we have a huge debate based off of some RVS shenanigans. Mountains out of molehills. Meanwhile I see some newbies presenting some fallacious arguments, and cloud reaching L-1. While the activity is healthy, this game needs a collective deep breath.

Christ, by the time I get home and have a little time to catch up fully we'll probably be on page 9 and I'll really be fucked.

[ninjacheese]

That's an awkward question to ask in a newbie because so many new players actually are pretty bad at sending out proper town vibes early because they're still trying to even figure out how to play the game - much less play it well. I don't have a town read I would be happy to call town right at this stage. If you twisted my arm I'd probably say...hellhound as long as I'm right about cloudocean? Meh. Stay tuned, I usually just shout out my town reads as I get them anyway -

yours went away the instant you unvoted

, nobody else has generated one, when I get a new one I'll let everyone know.

Unvoted because my cloudocean vote was random and i wanted to read through the posts.

Could you explain as too why it went away?

[Thor665]

@ninja - in a regular game I would say no, because there's no value to it, but here's the breakdown.

1. I call something scummy.
2. You hop in aggressive and hot.
3. If I was correct in #1 and ocean flipped scum, you would be obv. obv. obv. town because the chance of you bussing a buddy like that is next to nil.
4. You unvote - this destroys the bus energy and makes you not obv. town now.

@starttransmission - when you present a post that is not filled with caveats I'll probably have some questions for you. I look forward to this happening.

[ninjacheese]

@ninja - in a regular game I would say no, because there's no value to it, but here's the breakdown.

1. I call something scummy.
2. You hop in aggressive and hot.
3. If I was correct in #1 and ocean flipped scum, you would be obv. obv. obv. town because the chance of you bussing a buddy like that is next to nil.
4. You unvote - this destroys the bus energy and makes you not obv. town now.

I see your point, it would look bad.

I feel like i should vote so.

VOTE: Cloudocean
Because your the scummiest person here.

[Scumhunter]

Holy balls, can we not quick lynch anyone.

[Awesoma]

I have some questions for people

@cloudocean- Why do you keep taking things out of context? you seem to be delibratly miss-quoting people so that they seem scummy. You have done this with Hellhound and Thor. could you say why?

@Awesonna- You have exsacly the same chance of getting a role as someones else, its basic rules of proberbility.
Also what do you gain form evaluating yourself? We are more likely to catch scum if you evluate other people.

@Thor- Who are you greatest town reads at the moment? I believe you to be leading town as all your posts seem constructive.

Thats all for now. Im going to wait for the answers before I Vote, if there is a reason to.

I have evaluated myself because some people had some questions for me and that answered some of them. In addition, it added even more questions.
Not that It shouldve. And yes, I do know that roles are picked randomly. Have I not said that enough?

[Awesoma]

Ninja was buddied by Thor literally three posts in... Awesoma buddied Thor by BW'ing a few posts after saying "I think we should be careful!" (i.e. Awesoma's buddying was contradictory to a statement he made before and opportunistic) ... notice the statement in #3 - "so early on."

So...is it Awesoma's buddying that is scummy...or is it the contradiction that is scummy? What am I missing?

I dunno anymore. Im just learning the basics of FORUM mafia. I have played many mafia games offsite in similiar environments like Epicmafia or Starcraft2 mafia.
The only thing I can rely on right now is reading and not psychological analysis of the person, as that is all I know atm. In addition, if someone were to pressure me
to reveal my role, Id gladly reveal it, but right now, since it is still early in the game, Id rather keep myself anonymous. And also, I thought cloud was really reading in, sometimes too far into people, especially early in the game. No that everyone is in the same mood and we have actual suspicions to back up our votes, thus fair voting, I unvoted cloud.

I buddied Thor because there was nothing suspicious about him at that time, though I do have my reasons to start pointing a finger at him now. YES, I did contradict myself and I am not denying it. I am in to fair voting, and not into troll voting, yet I pulled an OMGUS on Hellhound, which if you read a few posts back, I declared Imature and not a very smart move to pull in my analysis of myself to clear some blurred things up.

[Awesoma]

@Thor665

.............. His contradiction is interrelated to his buddying ..... I'll break it down for you:
- Awesoma says that he'll reserve his vote until he gets more information
- A couple of posts later, he votes me for the sake of joining the BW
- This is opportunistic (<-- Do I have to explain that to you?)
- His reasoning contradicts the statement he made before. (i.e. "We should be careful!" --> "Welp, might as well vote!"

@Hellhound1

I. Gave. A. Read. Where. I. Said. I. Thought. They. Were. Scum.

You still haven't show me how I've twisted your words.

Show me how Thor didn't contradict himself.... and how do you not have a read on Awesoma yet? Do you think making decisions based on previous games is townie?

On the previous games thing, No that was ignorant and stupid. It was random voting. A great example of random voting (Voting with no apparent GOOD reasoning) is Hellhound's first post on a vote against me.

[Thor665]

I buddied Thor because there was nothing suspicious about him at that time, though I do have my reasons to start pointing a finger at him now. YES, I did contradict myself and I am not denying it. I am in to fair voting, and not into troll voting, yet I pulled an OMGUS on Hellhound, which if you read a few posts back, I declared Imature and not a very smart move to pull in my analysis of myself to clear some blurred things up.

How is that pointing any type of finger at me in any way, shape, or form?

Holy balls, can we not quick lynch anyone.

Holy feet, why, will we miss out on awesomely constructive posts like this?