Neon Genesis Evangelion Mafia (Game Over)

[Iecerint]

PEACE and HAPPINESS~~! <3

<You can have this.>

[GreyICE]

@Greyice-
How about you cut the crap and play the game? Flailing around randomly D1 like an idiot is just going to waste time and peg you for a useless VI

@Nocmen-
There's a difference between stating what you think and asking people if it's ok to think what you think. The "town must vote immediately" mindset is ridiculous and needs to be killed. I think I've been spoiled by playing mostly games

with competent playerbases

where this stuff doesn't need to be explained.

@Ace-
If you're going to bother quoting context, you should take the extra time to read the context.

If you believed the statement in bold why did you feel the need to do the italic statement.

I felt the need because people like you (and I suspect Candlejack as well) are going to be dense and fallaciously claim that thinking someone is joking is equivalent to thinking the person is seriously fake claiming.

@Spyrex-
I'd like more posts from you. A bit more sanity in this game would be great. If you're sane town, that would be even better.

@Zeln1k-
Stevie is playing like a n00b/weak player. He's unfamiliar with basic mafia theory and standard terminology. His analysis and logic are very poor, but nothing in it points scum; rather there's a lot of new/bad player tells.

@Spyrex-
I'd guess scum exist within the bloc in the same ratio that they exist in any randomly selected sample of players. I don't have any particular scum reads on individual members of your/LLD's proclaimed town bloc; most of you have been playing in a pretty neutral/null range.

I specifically named LLD because she is blatantly exemplifying all the negative aspects of any self-declared townie-voting-bloc and is one of the ardent attack dogs of anyone who even hints at disagreement. I'm specifically addressing LLD more in depth than others because she posted a blatantly untrue and clearly unthought through WTF?!?! dismissal of my catch up post. Then instead of being honest and admitting her mistake, she tried pushing BS misrepresentations and anti-town stalling/distractions.

Does that mean she is scum? Not necessarily. She certainly hasn't been as scummy as ace, LC, Noc, or Malthusis. What I've pointed out is more secondary tells; identification of what could potentially be scummy behavior but does not in and of itself indicate that LLD is particularly likely to be scum. I also want to be clear that LLD is NOT the sole participant in such behavior. Part of my focus on LLD is simply a penchant for engaging people who try to engage with BS.

Some wagon analysis-
Lady Lambdadelta- Generally less rational player anyway. She's obviously OMGUSing because I called her out. Doesn't say much about affiliation.
GreyICE- His initial attack on me was due to being a VI and thinking I was fishing without really thinking it through. Since I responded by mentioning a game he was extremely upset and hurt by, he decided to stop playing the game and take out his frustrations pushing after me. It's null.
Antifinity- Potential scum wagon vote. It's been discussed pretty reasonably.
Iecerint- Don't really understand Iec's move. This is one of the key votes.
GhostWriter- This is the second key vote on the wagon. Without Iec and GW, this wasn't moving anywhere.
StevieT92- Opportunistic vote from VI/N00b. Doesn't tell us anything and is consistent with Stevie's play elsewhere.
LobsterCatapult- Opportunistic vote from one of today's lynch candidates. Null.
populartajo- Tajo's been as rabidly tunnelled as GI and also for no apparent reason. It is surprising and uncharacteristic.
ace5993- Returning to his old vote. Doesn't add anything new to his read. His vote being for a lynch rather than for pressure to make me react is a slight change from his previous stance.
SpyreX- Going with the bloc despite your personal beliefs? Exactly the problem with a voting bloc.

@Celebloki-
I don't recall you even being in this game. Iso doesn't show much more than sheeping the leading wagons at the time. More posts of substance would be welcome; particularly thoughts on players with reasons for those thoughts.

I'll keep my 'last words' short.

I've characterized you as an oversensitive douchebag who is happy to dish it out but flips out and cries whenever someone hands him a portion of the same.

You disagree.

The above quotes are left to anyone else to decide if I'm making any sense. You apparently don't want to change.

[GreyICE]

Well played GI. I mean no disrespect, but maaan I wish all the games were this GI.

All in all considering the shenanigans I felt like I was on the right track and watching scum just eat it over and over was awesome. Good game all.

Man I wish that too.

I'm trying

[Kdub]

Balance wasn't that bad. Any game in which the SK gets lynched D1 becomes almost impossible for town to lose. In a large game, killing the SK early gives town an extra 3-4 days worth of mislynching (or modkills) and PR use, and lets town focus better on scum hunting and have a more complete picture to solve the game.

It's true that the SK dying on D1 will tend to help the town more often than not, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it made it almost impossible for the town to lose. The SK needs to kill scum to win as well. If it got to a situation where the town was in trouble and the scum had close to a majority, the SK would have needed to start hunting scum, which could have neutralized things.

I like the mechanic you gave me, but I definitely think it should be modded to what I actually claimed instead of what it actually was (the single night protect is pretty much useless). It's great that CJ revealed himself; given that he was masons with the other supercomputers, it was absolutely the right move to claim and allow use of the ability. The day recruiting as a counter worked perfectly and was a solid balance for that. If I hadn't lied about my ability being day use, it would have been a pretty good balance since scum could have locked me and prevented enabling Noc/clearing LC.

I'm going to disagree, I think the fact that you were outed on D1 and the masons were outed on D1/D2 was what made your ability seem weaker than it actually was. If your ability hadn't been known, you might have protected one of the Magi who otherwise would have been killed.

[Kast]

@Kdub-
Agreed that SKs work well as roles to improve game balance, however, in a large game they're almost definitely going to kill more town than mafia (there's going to be more town than mafia). Eliminating them early game helps town more than mafia, but as the game progresses, it tends to shift to parity and/or mafia benefit.

Definitely agree that the protection aspect of ability being public makes the protection

as it was

essentially meaningless. Independent of that, in any situation in which my ability has been publicly claimed, it becomes better to claim that I grant a 1x bulletproof since it makes mafia unwilling to kill the townie who has been BPed. Similarly, having my ability be night use instead of day use ALSO makes it horrible when publicly claimed (to be clear, I think it

should

be night use, but any townie forced to claim should claim it as day use to avoid roleblocks). Obviously, granting a 1-shot bulletproof is almost always going to be more powerful than the single night doc protect.

Given that many towns are unwilling to take liberties with their roleclaims, having the weaker version becomes a weakness if claiming becomes necessary.

In any situation in which a supercomputer has publicly claimed but is not claimed as a mason, the protection remains meaningless since being a supercomputer alone would not incline scum to kill that player.
If the supercomputer also claimed mason, then it's debatable, but a close tie between a publicly claiming a bulletproof on that supercomputer (thus keeping a conf. town alive into endgame) or publicly claiming the next-day day-cop to force scum to lose a kill trying to stop the day-cop. Not claiming anything about my ability would allow the day cop to definitely come into play the following day; but the protection aspect would be useless, and claiming AFTER the fact that the supercomputer was BP would be much less plausible and thus much less likely to keep the supercomputer cop alive.

Your example situation highlights the only time that the ability

as is

works out equivalently to the ability

as I think it should be

, and then it requires the extremely unlikely conditionals of me correctly guessing a mason AND mafia decide to shoot that SAME mason. With this PR heavy game, it's pretty likely that mafia would be shooting at a claimed non-supercomputer; in which case successfully guessing a supercomputer

still

leaves the protection aspect meaningless.

For reference, with 3 supercomputers out of 22 players, the odds of finding one by chance are under 14% (ie. once in seven games). Having CJ claim and out the other masons early allowed us to clear Noc and keep him until endgame, clear LC who was the top mislynch candidate at the time, and limit/reveal the traitor (essentially resulting in a 1-for-1 trade of Spyrex for CJ). I don't see any realistic situations in which my ability would have been any stronger

without

those claims.

* Programming LLD on N2 would have been an even more powerful move, but also would have been a result of CJ's claim. Sorry town for missing that chance. I originally submitted LLD since that was CJ's obvious reference, but last second changed my mind and submitted Pom instead since I started second guessing whether CJ was even a mason at all or was just messing with town.

[StevieT92]

Good game all