Newbie 1122 (Game Over|Scum Win)

[Ellf]

Right now I'm having a bit of difficulty parsing all the posts. Hooray lack of sleep. However, what I do know is that numberQ hasn't given me any reason to take my vote off of him, and on top of that, he has given me a slight reason to keep it on.

I know it was an RVS vote, but what, you have a 2/9 chance of being right with the RVS?

[Packbat]

Higher than that, unless you self-vote in RVS.

[Ellf]

Oh right, 2/8. Voting for yourself is stupid. No matter when.

[Packbat]

Oddly enough, I just saw a game finish where the last two lynches both involved self-votes. And both were mislynches and town lost. There

are

situations where self-voting makes sense, but they are rare and (I believe) they never arise in newbies.

[zMuffinMan]

What about my post was hard to 'parse' and why?

[Packbat]

"What are the benefits do not 'immediately' lynching the IC?" I

think

you might mean, "What are the benefits of not 'immediately' lynching the IC?", but I would rather be sure.

[zMuffinMan]

Yeah, typo, but it was meant to be 'to', not 'do', as grammatically incorrect as that may still be.

[zMuffinMan]

ebwop:

btw, is that really all you have to say about it?

[ValiliaRei]

zMuffinMan was the first to vote for Packbat. Judging by his join date, he is not a complete newbie, and would realize the benefits to having an IC and not immediately lynching them. This seems unhelpful to the town. In his next post he mentions IIoA and tries to put more suspicion on Packbat, saying that he's spending too much time posting information to the newbies, and says that it's not a problem for the newbies in the same breath. Again, seems unhelpful for town.

What are the benefits do not 'immediately' lynching the IC? Do you think there are benefits to 'immediately' lynching someone else? Do you think Packbat was in danger of being 'immediately' lynched?

And, er, not even sure what you're trying to say with the rest of your post. What was unhelpful for town, exactly?

The main benefit of not immediately lynching the IC is keeping around an experienced player until they show a tell one way or the other. You voted before that happened, saying that the first step to winning was killing the IC.

No, there are no benefits to immediately lynching somebody else. My point is that it is especially not beneficial to immediately lynch the most experienced player.

Packbat got to L-2 barely into page two. An immediate lynch seemed like a possibility.

I am saying that wanting to lynch an experienced player at the beginning of the game when he hasn't shown any tells one way or the other is unhelpful for the town. You also accused Packbat of IIoA, mentioning that while it's not really a problem in this game because of the newbies, it's a bad idea. So is it good for this game, or bad? You contradicted yourself in the same sentence.

Please explain how what you've done so far is helpful for a newbie town, and not as unhelpful as I think it is.

[Packbat]

Well, I focused on that point specifically because that was the grammatical error I was hung up on - and, as ValiliaRei has said, the most obvious way to make sense of it ... makes no sense.

[Robocopter87]

VoteCount coming soon.

[numberQ]

@numberQ, small,

Anything to add?

Just an unvote, and that's it?

What was the point in voting for Packbat in the first place?

I already explained that I only voted for Packbat because it was mostly random, and I unvoted because I didn't look through the topic thoroughly enough to know that he was close to being hammered. A lynch this early, especially on an IC, especially on an IC that I can't read as either scum or town yet, seems like a bad idea to me.

[Panacea]

Panacea, did you mean to remove your vote from smallpeoples343?

Sorry, I missed this yesterday. Well, it wasn't really doing anything where it was, so it didn't seem to matter, either way.

Panacea: Well, I wouldn't say I've been posting information instead of analysis - until recently, there was nothing to analyze; we were in R(V/Q)S.

I can accept this answer as valid, thank you. I'll admit that MuffinMan had me questioning the intentions behind all of your advice, and how you responded to him was going to affect whether or not I pursued it as potential scumplay. However, a massive chunk of this game so far has been your tips an pointers, and it doesn't really look like anyone is reading them, judging from the lack of response... That felt really harsh to say, I'm so sorry! My point is that you might just want to save your (metaphorical) breath. I know longer posts tend to discourage players from reading them through (not to say I'm not prodigiously guilty!), and I've already seen one comment about "parsing" from Elff, and NumberQ admits to not looking very closely at the posts. I'm sorry, I really am not trying to be mean. If it helps, I really wish you'd IC'd my first game, because it took me months to figure out this stuff.

In other news, I'm not really liking NumberQ's backtrack in #44. (Packbat, could you refresh me on how to include the specific link-to-post?) But hasty backpedaling always strikes me as scummy. NumberQ, did Packbat personally do something to alleviate some of his scumminess in your eyes?

The main benefit of not immediately lynching the IC is keeping around an experienced player until they show a tell one way or the other. You voted before that happened, saying that the first step to winning was killing the IC.

ValiliaRei, I can see the rest of your case on MuffinMan, but wasn't his vote pretty obviously frivolous in true RVS fashion? And is there a nickname you prefer? I have a mental block on your spelling, lol.

I am saying that wanting to lynch an experienced player at the beginning of the game when he hasn't shown any tells one way or the other is unhelpful for the town.

A lynch this early, especially on an IC, especially on an IC that I can't read as either scum or town yet, seems like a bad idea to me.

MafiaScum.net is going green! Recycling one statement at a time.

[Panacea]

@Packbat, please scratch my request for post-to-link; just figured it out.

[Packbat]

@Packbat, please scratch my request for post-to-link; just figured it out.

Glad to be of service!

(I'll be less wall-of-text from now on - I've mostly been really enthusiastic about playing my first game as IC.)

[Robocopter87]

__________

:

|

Vote Count

|

:

Oversoul [0]
smallpeoples343 [1] Robin The Boy Wonder
ValiliaRei [0]
Robin The Boy Wonder [0]

numberQ [2] Ellf, PackBat

Ellf [0]
Panacea [0]

zMuffinMan [2] Oversoul, ValiliaRei

Packbat [1] zMuffinMan

:

|

Not Voting

|

:

Panacea, numberQ, smallpeoples343

:

|

Amount to Lynch

|

:

With 9 Alive it is 5 to Lynch.

:

|

Deadline

|

:

Midnight of July, 19^th, EDT.

__________

[Ellf]

Hopefully tomorrow when I'm more awake I'll be able to get some detailed analysis in. I appreciate Packbat's stuff as it's really helpful.

Still, other than a bit of strangeness from muffinman, and numberQ's quickness in RVS, I've not gotten any scum reads just yet. Once I get my mind straight, I think I might end up changing my vote, though to whom, I'm not sure.

[Panacea]

So... Robin. Seeing anything worth your commentary?

[Packbat]

So... Robin. Seeing anything worth your commentary?

(Apropos of nothing: my RL name is Robin. This game is going to be mondo confusing to me.)

[Panacea]

LOL! Noted. Robin will be RBW with me, then.

[Oversoul]

zMuffinMan was the first to vote for Packbat. Judging by his join date, he is not a complete newbie, and would realize the benefits to having an IC and not immediately lynching them. This seems unhelpful to the town. In his next post he mentions IIoA and tries to put more suspicion on Packbat, saying that he's spending too much time posting information to the newbies, and says that it's not a problem for the newbies in the same breath. Again, seems unhelpful for town.

What are the benefits do not 'immediately' lynching the IC? Do you think there are benefits to 'immediately' lynching someone else? Do you think Packbat was in danger of being 'immediately' lynched?

And, er, not even sure what you're trying to say with the rest of your post. What was unhelpful for town, exactly?

The main benefit of not immediately lynching the IC is keeping around an experienced player until they show a tell one way or the other. You voted before that happened, saying that the first step to winning was killing the IC.

No, there are no benefits to immediately lynching somebody else. My point is that it is especially not beneficial to immediately lynch the most experienced player.

Packbat got to L-2 barely into page two. An immediate lynch seemed like a possibility.

I am saying that wanting to lynch an experienced player at the beginning of the game when he hasn't shown any tells one way or the other is unhelpful for the town. You also accused Packbat of IIoA, mentioning that while it's not really a problem in this game because of the newbies, it's a bad idea. So is it good for this game, or bad? You contradicted yourself in the same sentence.

Please explain how what you've done so far is helpful for a newbie town, and not as unhelpful as I think it is.

I pretty much agree with this statement. For once, I actually feel comfortable with my rvs vote. lol.

Anyway, I wanted to point something out that I feel is going to be inherent in most, if not all Newbie Games. One (or more) of the more experienced players is likely going to be a mafia member. It makes no sense to have the blind lead the blind without any sort of direction, unless the mod wants to participate in the Mafia Quick Topic (which I think is disallowed). For now, I have put my field of suspicion on the three experienced players, Packbat, zMuffinMan, and Pancea.

However, I truly do feel that zMuffinMan a scummy player this game. Immediately recognizing the strength the newbie town has in Packbat as an IC and casually trying to play his lynch for something greater.

Muffin's post here:

zMuffinMan was the first to vote for Packbat. Judging by his join date, he is not a complete newbie, and would realize the benefits to having an IC and not immediately lynching them. This seems unhelpful to the town. In his next post he mentions IIoA and tries to put more suspicion on Packbat, saying that he's spending too much time posting information to the newbies, and says that it's not a problem for the newbies in the same breath. Again, seems unhelpful for town.

What are the benefits do not 'immediately' lynching the IC? Do you think there are benefits to 'immediately' lynching someone else? Do you think Packbat was in danger of being 'immediately' lynched?

And, er, not even sure what you're trying to say with the rest of your post. What was unhelpful for town, exactly?

@numberQ, small,

Anything to add?

Just an unvote, and that's it?

What was the point in voting for Packbat in the first place?

Seems particularly scummy when he questions the logic of not immediately lynching the IC when this is clearly a learning game. I think he is a little hotheaded with this post and has forsaken the notion of teaching newbies, like myself, the mechanics of this game and instead is pursuing a win. However, he could be one of those teachers that teaches you by throwing you into the deep end. Also, numberQ and smallpeoples's reactions to the L-2 vote of Packbat indicate nervousness and seem legitimately scared about losing the IC. For all intents and purposes, the IC in a newbie game *is* a power role.

But I did find NumberQ's reasoning a little... flimsy.

I guess that's what I get for not looking at the rest of the posts very carefully. I wasn't aware that I was putting him at L-2, which seems kind of drastic for this early in the day. In my defense, I was kind of hurting for time irl and I wanted to get a post up so it didn't seem suspicious that I wasn't posting. The "senseless" thing was more a joke than anything.

Why do you care if you seem somewhat lurky and suspicious this early in the game? Everyone is bound to look suspicious at one point or another and your post seems overly cautious, which is usually a trait that Mafia members display.

Also, a few of you have alluded to a scum hunting technique (not really a technique, but I don't really know what to call it) called cognitive dissonance. I am fairly new myself, but someone from another game I am in explained cognitive dissonance pretty well. Basically, the fact that the mafia members know who is and isn't scum will seep into their posts subconsciously and townies should therefore be on the look out for players that are seemingly absent from suspicion from each other.

[Panacea]

Oversoul! I thought you'd abandoned us!

Basically, the fact that the mafia members know who is and isn't scum will seep into their posts subconsciously and townies should therefore be on the look out for players that are seemingly absent from suspicion from each other.

Basically, I read this statement and conjured a post to bookmark it for later in the game. Carry on!

[Ellf]

Oversoul, quick comment. In the last game I was in, initially (before one of the mafia dropped out) the scum were made up entirely of newbies. Assuming that one or more of the experienced players is inherently scum is... not really the best. Roles are assigned by RNG. We have three officially experienced here, so there is a 33% chance that one of them is scum. There is no guarantee that two of them are.

I won't rule out that possibility, but until one of them does something scummy, I have no reason to vote for them.

[Oversoul]

Oversoul, quick comment. In the last game I was in, initially (before one of the mafia dropped out) the scum were made up entirely of newbies. Assuming that one or more of the experienced players is inherently scum is... not really the best. Roles are assigned by RNG. We have three officially experienced here, so there is a 33% chance that one of them is scum. There is no guarantee that two of them are.

I won't rule out that possibility, but until one of them does something scummy, I have no reason to vote for them.

Hmm. I did not know that. Thank you for pointing that out, though. Although, I do find that rather odd they would allow an all newbie scum team.

Also, Panacea, my meta is lurky. I am an active reader, but I seldom post. It is just my habit. You can see my activity in other games is basically the same. When I do post I normally get yelled at for being stupid and nooby so I save myself from the ridicule. I guess. I may as well be screwing myself in the end though... if I don't speak up now, how will I ever be able to get better. :\ lose lose lol

[Panacea]

Really..? Nothing about this seems newbish to me. Please feel free to post manymanymany more of those.

My meta is the total opposite= I post quite often. As I'm almost always NK'ed early, I have to assume it's threatening to scum, which only makes me post more. It also makes me hyper-aware of when specific players aren't participating enough, and I tend to politely (then not-so-politely ) encourage them to post more. (RBW was tonight's.)

Ellf, yeah, the likelihood of both scummies being in the SE or IC slots is, while entirely plausible, improbable. However, I do agree with whoever hinted at it earlier in the game: a person's SE or IC status does not exempt them from harboring a chewy scummy center. On a semi-related note, my last game saw a crazy amount of RayFrost fangirlism from me, which I think might have contributed to my downfall. Try not to ever just trust someone coming in, even an IC (or in my case, a player you have reason to idolize. ).