Mini 1198 - Marketplace Mafia - Game Over

[RedCoyote]

So, Mod, in other words, if I were to buy, like, a Vig power, not use it during the current day I buy it or the succeeding night, I would have two shot the next day? If that's not true, could you give an example of this for me?

You have the idea correct; however, it is not true in this specific case because of the "you possess that has

more than one

use remaining" clause, which would keep it from working if you only had Night-kill x 1.

I'm sorry,

Mod

. I'm still confused. Could you give me an example, please? Just from any random power.

---

In regards to Regfan's post 31, I agree 100% with his Efficiency Bonus and mostly with his other comments. The town does not need to drag its feet about lynches, and Transfers should be fairly open. I mean, if you think a player is town enough to transfer funds to, then you should be able to state that in the thread. I'm not sure if we should be completely open with how many funds are being transferred, but that should be decided on a case-by-case basis.

Investing should mostly be left up to the individual unless we're really planning something. I doubt most players are going to decide to invest if only because there is probably a good split between people (as we can already see with the bidding) who are aiming for early powers and those who aren't.

I have no opinion in regards to advertising. I mean, if you're considering putting money towards advertising, then I'm sure you have a reason to do so. My initial impression of it is that it does seem unnecessary because there are so many powers on the list already to choose from. But, you know, that's just me.

Nightkill should be only aimed at if you're willing to place all your funds on it and aiming for nothing else, this is something I would only recommend for people considering the back-up of investment. The perfect thing with this occuring is that the players who missed it but recieved full investment will likely be able to snatch this from the mafia tommorow.

Another thing to consider is that spending money on NK bidding may drain money from the scum's collective fund pool. If someone felt they weren't very confident in their abilities as a PR, this may be a good way to spend money (also Transfers should be considered).

---

really who the heck is bidding for setup information?

As Pere noted, there's a lot of information we can gather with this. Size of the scumteam. Funds of the scumteam. Whether there is a third-party role or not. etc.

It probably won't be quite as useful as we start to learn more about the setup later in the game, but it can be really helpful right now. Remember that the scum knows a lot more about the setup than we do right now.

---

We should somehow coordinate our bids to not overbid ourselves. I propose claiming of what we're bidding on, so every ability is only bid on by one player.

I tentatively support this until/unless someone thinks of an issue with this. IceGuy is right about the idea that the town should NOT be having bidding wars over the same powers if at all possible.

---

I would like to nominate Red Coyote to bid $99 for the NK. If he has already bid on something I'd like him to nominate (and recommend Reg)

I don't mind doing something like this. Remember that scum can probably transfer funds between themselves though, so I doubt that we'll be able to pull this off. That being said, it will force to make a decision to drain a significant portion of their funds on it (keeping them from being as competitive elsewhere in the Marketplace).

---

If we do somehow manage to grab hold of night kill today it should be claimed out loud and then vig-voted to determine who should be shot.

No, I will not accept this. If you guys want me to do this, then I will not necessarily be listening to any winner of a "vig-vote". I would take it into consideration, but the kill would be decided by me. I would also be willing to inform the town

who

I killed after the fact, of course.

The reason I won't submit to a vig-vote is twofold. First, I don't want the scum/any other anti-town faction(s) to know who I am going to kill. Second, it would be better on the town in regards to how they're going to be able to read my alignment through my kill. Third, scum will have an influence on a vig-vote, but they wouldn't have an influence on a kill left ultimately up to me. Obviously the rest of you don't know that to be true, but then we go back to my second and first points: I plan to inform the town who I shot after it happens and my taking full responsibility for the shot would be more valuable in the town gauging my alignment than if I were to leave it up to a vig-vote alone.

So, you know, if you don't accept the above, then you don't want me to be bidding on the NK.

---

- Forgot who brought I up, but a SK is highly unlikely in this setup. Considering he'd have to buy his kill and all.
- Random thought. Mass claim amount of starting cash?

- I would not rely on the likeliness/unlikeliness of a third-party until we have more information.
- No, not interested in this. This is one of the few things we have over the scum. Let's just assume everyone has 100 dollars for the time being.

[RedCoyote]

Oh, I forgot...

Vote: Midnight's Sorrow

I surprisingly get good vibes from everyone here at the moment, but I'm sure this will change as the game goes on. MS would be the person I'm least sure of as town right now.

[Magua]

I'm sorry,

Mod

. I'm still confused. Could you give me an example, please? Just from any random power.

Certainly. I have spoilered the explanation for length.

Spoiler: Grow Your Business Examples

Assumption:

Magua is an Entrepreneur with the exact same Role PM as listed in the Setup Rules (rule II.1)

Assumption:

During D1, Magua won auction #1, Cop x 2.

Magua now possesses two usages of the Cop ability (that is, two investigations). Since this is a Targeted ability (because it says so in the Ability Glossary), it can't be used during the Day, so no worries there (rule VI.6).

Someone is lynched, and now it's Night 1. Magua has two options:
1) Magua can activate the ability to investigate someone. Magua can't investigate two people, because you may activate any given ability only once per phase (rule VI.4). This costs Magua one of his usages (Cop x 2 becomes Cop x 1). Magua will start D2 with Cop x 1 and the results of his investigation.
2) Magua can activate no abilities. In this case, since Magua is an Entrepreneur, "Grow Your Business" would allow him to get an extra usage of Cop (Cop x 2 becomes Cop x 3). Magua will start D2 with Cop x 3, but will not have performed any investigations that Night.

Assumption:

Magua went with option #1 and investigated someone. Magua has Cop x 1.

Someone is lynched, and now it's Night 2. Magua has two options.
1) Magua can activate the ability to investigate someone. This uses up his last usage of Cop (Cop x 1 becomes Cop x 0, which is just removed), so Magua will start D3 with no abilities and the results of his investigation.
2) Magua can activate no abilities. Even though Magua is an Entrepreneur, he will not get an additional usage of Cop (he will not go to Cop x 2) because "Grow Your Business" specifies that it only works on abilities that have "more than one use remaining", and Cop x 1 does not meet this requirement. Magua will start D3 with Cop x 1.

[RedCoyote]

Gotcha. That's what I thought, but for some reason it wasn't clicking.

[Seacore]

Hehe, that makes Cop + Last Will even more awesome.

[hiphop]

Grow Your Business:

Once per Night, if you activated

no abilities during the previous Day

and you activate

no abilities during this Night

, you may choose one ability you possess that has more than one use remaining; you gain another use of that ability.

I think it is important to note the bolded, where if one uses any of their abilities, one cannot grow their business on any of the others. Essentially saying that if one uses the cop, they cannot grow their business on Last will.

And I agree with Rc

Vote: Midnight's Sorrow

[Magua]

Vote Count 1.2

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

malpascp (2): Ghostlin, ChaosOmega
Midnight's Sorrow (2): RedCoyote, hiphop
hiphop (1): Midnight's Sorrow
Seacore (1): WeyounsLastClone
HellloooNewman (1): IceGuy
WeyounsLastClone (1): bobsnox
ChaosOmega (1): PeregrineV

Not voting (4): Regfan, HellloooNewman, Seacore, malpascp

Deadline is July 12th, 2011, at 1:00pm EST (site time).
Countdown to deadline:

(expired on 2011-07-12 13:00:00)

Most Advertised Ability:

None

#	Name	Minimum Bid	Current Bid	Auction Length	Countdown
1	Cop x 2	$50	-	7 days	(expired on 2011-07-05 13:00:00)
2	Doctor x 2	$40	$40	5 days	(expired on 2011-07-03 13:00:00)
3	Extra Vote x 2	$10	$29	3 days	(expired on 2011-07-01 13:00:00)
4	Governor x 1	$30	$30	5 days	(expired on 2011-07-03 13:00:00)
5	Investigation Immunity x 4	$25	$25	5 days	(expired on 2011-07-03 13:00:00)
6	Last Will x 3	$25	$25	3 days	(expired on 2011-07-01 13:00:00)
7	Neighborizer x 3	$20	-	5 days	(expired on 2011-07-03 13:00:00)
8	Night-kill x 1	$50	$50	7 days	(expired on 2011-07-05 13:00:00)
9	Oracle x 2	$10	$20	3 days	(expired on 2011-07-01 13:00:00)
10	Setup Information x 3	$10	$41	3 days	(expired on 2011-07-01 13:00:00)
11	Vote Nullifier x 1	$25	$25	3 days	(expired on 2011-07-01 13:00:00)

[bobsnox]

Why MS?

[WeyounsLastClone]

I would like to nominate Red Coyote to bid $99 for the NK. If he has already bid on something I'd like him to nominate (and recommend Reg)

Why RC? Not saying wrong or right, but if we let something bid for NK, I think it should be a consensus, not a one or two-person thing.
The more I think about the set-up, the more I'm intrigued. Still playing scenario's in my head, should be some way we can make sure we'll be able to get something out of day 1/night 1.

Does anyone want to claim current bid on NK? If it's a town bid, I think this should be clear.

Also, with this being mini-theme, I doubt investing and grow your business are worth the risk, compared to getting good stuff day 1. What's everyone's stance on this?

[malpascp]

Vote: Seacore

In this game, nominations is mafia stuff.

I'd rather like everyone to give their guesses about the setup, especially the existence of a SK.

[malpascp]

EBOWP: sorry didn´t saw WLC question.

This is a small game, so I think it isn't worth it.
And there are some actions, like "setup information", that don't make sense to keep, unless you want to ask more than 3 questions. Although, if you have more "heavy" actions and no idea how to use them, "grow your business" is better than screwing the game.

[Regfan]

Weyoun, I touched on investing earlier which I still believe is something that should only occur when aiming for Cop/Doc/NK with all your funds and missing. As for growing your business, it makes some sense to do as cop and to a degree doctor however I recommend against attempted to do so with anything else. I also recommend against the person who currently has the highest night kill bid claiming because it just lets mafia know who isn't aiming for doctor/cop and so forth which likely isn't the best move at this point.

[malpascp]

So what actions should be claimed, and when?

The setup questions stills unanswered. Is the SK a possibility?

[HellloooNewman]

Why do you feel an SK is a possibility? Seems almost too obvious to me that there isn't.

[Midnight's Sorrow]

huh...

Wonder why some people are so quick to dis Advertising- From what I can understand from the rules, with the obvious exception of the Night Kill, no ability is really guaranteed to be in the auction the next day, because it seems like new ones are added as the game goes on, but whatever. I guess having the Oracle ability and wanting to Advertise seems like a good combo.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Why do you feel an SK is a possibility? Seems almost too obvious to me that there isn't.

Well, could be a third party with a load of money I guess trying to make it on his/her own.

@MS, hmm, maybe we're too optimistic with what's being offered day 1, in that advertising might be useful to make sure for example cop/doc will return day 2, still feel though it might be waste of your money, especially since I guess the expected average time you stay in the game would be somewhere around day 3/4 in a mini.

[IceGuy]

UNVOTE:

Enough random voting for now. Also, please stop pushing a MS lynch THAT early. The efficiency bonus isn't worth having no coherent strategy and no bidding possibilities.

these should all be claimed, as they are stronger in the hands of an unknown scum than in the hands of an unknown town.
The rest, should stay hush hush.

No, they shouldn't. I can imagine two situations for an important power, such as cop:
1. Everybody thinks somebody else has already bid, and nobody actually bids on it. While probably hilarious in hindsight, it would hamper us quite a bit.
2. Several people bid on it, everybody thinking he's overbidding scum, and we have to pay a fuckton of money although scum bid much less.

We should just try to win as many powers as possible and also give nobody more than one power (except for Last Will). Scum can only kill them off one at a time, and only if they win the night kill.

Also, people to claim those abilities will help us know who has what money.

Governor goes for $80? Then a town should finish the day on $19. But then that person claims the next day to buy something with $60... hang on.. etc

We don't know what starting capital and wages everybody has. It's only a sample PM in the first post, maybe some townies got PMs with different amounts?

- Forgot who brought I up, but a SK is highly unlikely in this setup. Considering he'd have to buy his kill and all.

I can imagine a kind of SK with a lot of money and maybe some special abilities. But it's not too likely in this setup.

- Random thought. Mass claim amount of starting cash?

Not now (too much information for scum, too little for town at this point), but we should definitely consider a starting capital/wage/transfers claim later on.

I have no opinion in regards to advertising. I mean, if you're considering putting money towards advertising, then I'm sure you have a reason to do so. My initial impression of it is that it does seem unnecessary because there are so many powers on the list already to choose from. But, you know, that's just me.

They might not be available next Day.

As Pere noted, there's a lot of information we can gather with this. Size of the scumteam. Funds of the scumteam. Whether there is a third-party role or not. etc.

This.

I don't mind doing something like this. Remember that scum can probably transfer funds between themselves though, so I doubt that we'll be able to pull this off. That being said, it will force to make a decision to drain a significant portion of their funds on it (keeping them from being as competitive elsewhere in the Marketplace).

+1 for vig vote. Even if the person who claims NK is scum, he can't use his NK other than we direct him to if he doesn't want to be exposed.

Also, with this being mini-theme, I doubt investing and grow your business are worth the risk, compared to getting good stuff day 1. What's everyone's stance on this?

I'm going to invest some money. Mostly because being a Cop on N1 is nice and all, but being one on N4 or N5 can win us the game.

[Magua]

Breaking News

Amongst the general brouhaha of who was to blame and who stole the last doughnut and who killed Andrius, someone was obviously streaming some internet news site. During a lull in the conversation, a particular snippet stood out:

"...officials at

the Marketplace

say they have no leads on the perpetrator, who managed to make off with literally tens of dollars earlier today, in what is being described as a brazen Dillinger-esque robbery..."

And then the brouhaha resumed.

Event:

$50 was taken from

the Marketplace

.

[Ghostlin]

Vote: Seacore

In this game, nominations is mafia stuff.

I'd rather like everyone to give their guesses about the setup, especially the existence of a SK.

This is a horrid post with horrible reasoning for a non-RVS vote. I don't think it's horrid for anyone to make a suggestion of a particular person to raise the price of NK.

As for the breaking news: talk about a miscarrage in the capitalist system for you. It seems someone has an ability that allows them to rob from the marketplace, and I think that person is probably not town, unless someone wants to step forward and claim it.

[Seacore]

I'm assuming robbing from the marketplace is not affecting the bids, otherwise we'd have an update?

Vote malpascp

At first I thought this post was too heavy handed to be scum. But then I remembered I hadn't voted yet and this seems like a good place to start.
"nominations is mafia stuff"
Nominations? Like how I just nominated you for a lynch? What would have been better, me saying "hey, somebody should totally win that Night Kill" and then left it up for people to sort out themselves?
Or maybe you'd prefer a bidding war between 2 or 3 town members, costing them $1 each time. Personally I'd prefer a $99 bid and then just wait for the scum to trump it.

Iceguy, did you even read which powers I was referring to by who should claim? Cop and Doc weren't on the list. Only ones that are stronger in the hands of scum.

[IceGuy]

Iceguy, did you even read which powers I was referring to by who should claim? Cop and Doc weren't on the list. Only ones that are stronger in the hands of scum.

I read it and explained why we should claim all powers, including Cop and Doc.

[Seacore]

Ah, you're talking about claiming on bidding, I'm talking about claiming outcome. Slight but important difference.
The problem is, we don't want the scum to know who has won Cop or Doc.
There's no problem with nobody bidding, because we can see that.
Everybody increasing their bids slowly and competing with each other is a risk. That's why I suggest that people make single large bids, instead of competing.

I'm going to try something risky.
I'm the guy who has bid $41 dollars on the Set Up info.
I think I'm the man for the job. I've written complex set ups before and I think I'll get us some useful information. My first question will be about win conditions, so even scum will want to keep me alive for N1 because that's interesting info for them too. After that, I'll likely be trying to narrow down questions about the scum, which means they might want to start aiming at me.
I would like nobody else to compete with my bid.

[Ghostlin]

Ah, you're talking about claiming on bidding, I'm talking about claiming outcome. Slight but important difference.
The problem is, we don't want the scum to know who has won Cop or Doc.
There's no problem with nobody bidding, because we can see that.
Everybody increasing their bids slowly and competing with each other is a risk. That's why I suggest that people make single large bids, instead of competing.

I'm going to try something risky.
I'm the guy who has bid $41 dollars on the Set Up info.
I think I'm the man for the job. I've written complex set ups before and I think I'll get us some useful information. My first question will be about win conditions, so even scum will want to keep me alive for N1 because that's interesting info for them too. After that, I'll likely be trying to narrow down questions about the scum, which means they might want to start aiming at me.
I would like nobody else to compete with my bid.

Dumb question completely unrelated to that, and maybe it's my lack of understanding on how I should bid. I have thought to place bids in $5 or $10 demonination...why $41?

[Seacore]

Yep, so that when you bid $40 as your max, guess which one of us wins?

[Regfan]

I'm going to attempt to refrain from stating my overall reads on everyone at the moment. I want everyone to voice in on the setup mechanics and what they agree and disagree with in terms of bidding tactics before we progress. Claiming the amounts theat everyone has bidded on every item is sub-optimal and should be avoided until later in the game as it gives mafia a list of players to night kill however I have no problem with the list that Seacore suggested claiming when they recieve the item or even when they have the leading bid as it gives us a chance to prevent town bidding wars.

~~

Seacore, has the leading bid on Setup Info for $41 therefore no one else should bid on that unless they have serious doubts on Seacores allignment which should be brought up in thread.