Mini 1198 - Marketplace Mafia - Game Over

[Ethos]

Vote Ghost

[ChaosOmega]

I agree with #103 for the most part. The only thing I'm not entirely keen on is the public stating of transfers. I understand that it's meant to try to link scum to each other, but since auction winners are anonymous, it seems difficult to verify if someone got an influx of money without claiming so. In addition, even though the amount isn't necessarily given in the claim, that information lets scum know who has more money than they should, which gives them a target.

Cop, Extra Vote, Last Will, Neighborizer and Vote Nullifier should grow their business, as this abilities become more important every Day/Night.

I understand the logic behind this, but I don't really agree with it. Especially in this sort of setup with limited use powers. The cop can make 2 quick investigations and then claim them with no real drawback. An extra investigation is nice, but it's not very useful if they're dead.

[Ghostlin]

You guys all seem to be forgetting one thing. We don't KNOW which abilities will be up for auction tomorrow. You're all discussing things as though every day will be like today.

Cop/Doc should not claim. That makes them targets. Cop SHOULD disclose their result straightaway D2

.

Only on a guilty, there is no guarantee, unless we advertise that Cop will be availble for bid Day 2--and claiming a cop result is a way to go 'Here I am!' to the scum.

[hiphop]

Transfer of funds don't actually occur until the next day therefore there's minimal town motivation to transfer funds at this point in the game so any transfer of funds done by town need to be stated openely in the thread sooner rather than later.

I disagree, if a transfer is claimed scum now know that that person has more money than anyone else, also scum can transfer money between themselves, and nobody would be the wiser.

That's why the Doc should protect the Cop and the Cop should have Last Will.

Impossible. Because of all the hype for last will and cop. I doubt anyone would have enough funds for both. Scum could easily take them both though.
2. If the cop claims, what makes you so sure the scum don't have the doctor? If scum do, nobody would be the wiser, since nobody knows who actually has the doc.

Furthermore, if there are 3 scum, any 3 items can be scums. Or scum could just bid on 2, and the third guy save his money for tomorrow.

Don't be so naive.

Your basically saying scum have absolutely no motivation to acquire Investigation Immunity- when they are the the only roles it that it would even remotely be useful to. Townies, and even the proverbial TP, would have no use for it, other then to keep it from the mafia- because Cop Results come back, "Mafia" or "Not Mafia".

Also, don't be so presumptuous.

Mafia will be far more concerned with getting the NK, then any other ability.

Oh I know. Because I have the high bid for investigation immunity. In fact I am the only bid on Investigation immunity. Therefore scum have no intention of getting it. You may of course outbid me if you want, if you truly think I am scum. And yes I am saying that the cop should not waste an investigation on me(if I somehow get it), because an innocent will not prove anything, but anybody else, I guarantee a correct result.

Also what part of 3 scum can pick any 3 abilites do you not understand?

unvote

[RedCoyote]

Players should claim what they're bidding on, and should not bid on more than one ability per day, except for Last Will, which should go to somebody with a high-risk town ability (cop or doc). Nobody should bid against a claimed town bid.

This is a really risky strategy that I don't think I want to support. We're giving up a lot of information with this. Like Reg says, we're effectively telling the scum who will have what power. If you ask me, townies competing amongst town & scum > not competing at all. The scum will just inherently have more organizational skills than us here, especially prior to getting the Neighborizer.

---

You guys all seem to be forgetting one thing. We don't KNOW which abilities will be up for auction tomorrow. You're all discussing things as though every day will be like today.

I don't know if we should necessarily err on the side of a small Marketplace tomorrow. You're probably right, but this is just one of those things where we don't need to cross this bridge until we get there. I would not bother wasting money on advertising until we know for sure that it will be beneficial.

---

I understand the logic behind this, but I don't really agree with it. Especially in this sort of setup with limited use powers. The cop can make 2 quick investigations and then claim them with no real drawback. An extra investigation is nice, but it's not very useful if they're dead.

Grow you business is a largely individual decision. If you think you don't have a good chance at being NK'd, then I see no reason why you shouldn't try to take advantage of it. I trust everyone here to thoughtfully make this decision on their own.

---

You may of course outbid me if you want, if you truly think I am scum. And yes I am saying that the cop should not waste an investigation on me(if I somehow get it), because an innocent will not prove anything, but anybody else, I guarantee a correct result.

...did you just claim that you bid on Investigation Immunity?

---

Unvote

;

vote: bobsnox

He's unreadable so far, and at this point it's perhaps purposefully so.

[malpascp]

Sorry for not being that active this past few days.

Seacore: that was just joking, despite we were discussing the setup and other ideas we had, we were still on RVS that time. At least that's what I think.

About #103: I agree with most of it, but the Cop growing business is really risky. That should only happen if Cop was Doc-protected from the night after we makes the first investigation claim.

IceGuy: the Governor particullarity you mentioned is awesome, but only if everyone sticks to that plan. Also, scum may immunize a townie to make him being linched next day.

Agreed on cop claims, although unless you have a guilty I might be a bit more in favor of waiting with claiming til D3 so you could've used both your cop uses.

This way, if noone claimed, we knew that cop didn't get scum.
This would be a very good idea, unless cop gets killed for other reasons besides claiming. Maybe we should consider to make the cop uses vig-voted-style too.

With that being said:

Unvote.
Vote:malpascp

I mentioned the SK because it was in another Mini I played in. However, it shouldn't really affect how we play this game, as they would be vying for the Nk against the mafia. However, you seem keenly interested in the subject- unnaturally so. Can you please explain why?

The SK thing: well I really hate SK, but in this setup, wouldn't 10vs3 or 9vs4 be unbalanced? Remember that scum doesn't have a faction-kill. I am really not that good on doing those maths, but I think yes, it does afect the game. Do you have any particular reason that I might not be seeing to say that it "doesn't matter"?

[IceGuy]

Cop, Extra Vote, Last Will, Neighborizer and Vote Nullifier should grow their business, as this abilities become more important every Day/Night.

I understand the logic behind this, but I don't really agree with it. Especially in this sort of setup with limited use powers. The cop can make 2 quick investigations and then claim them with no real drawback. An extra investigation is nice, but it's not very useful if they're dead.

Don't forget we aren't guaranteed to have Cop powers at auction at any time. This could literally be the last time Cop powers are auctioned off.

2. If the cop claims, what makes you so sure the scum don't have the doctor? If scum do, nobody would be the wiser, since nobody knows who actually has the doc.

If the doc doesn't die and doesn't protect the cop, we've got confirmed scum.

Furthermore, if there are 3 scum, any 3 items can be scums. Or scum could just bid on 2, and the third guy save his money for tomorrow.

Also what part of 3 scum can pick any 3 abilites do you not understand?

Why shouldn't scum be able to bid on more than one item per person? I'm almost tempted to vote for you since you seem to be that certain what scum can and can't do.

IceGuy: the Governor particullarity you mentioned is awesome, but only if everyone sticks to that plan. Also, scum may immunize a townie to make him being linched next day.

Yeah, but it costs them a mislynch.

[Ethos]

Advertising is bad due to the fact that someone can spend great amounts of funds advertising to assure that a particular item is up for grabs the following day only to have mafia outbid us for it wasting the money spent on advertising. A possible suggestion I was toying with earlier is asking our leading suspects to spend their funds on advertising potentially draining money from the scums fund pool however I haven't worked out if it's optimal yet or not.

Seacore has the leading bid on Setup Info for $41 and Hiphop has the leading bid on Investigation Immunity for $25. No one should attempt to outbid either of them on these items unless they openly state suspicion of these playesr in thread, any outbid of these items right now will be considered to be from scum.

[Magua]

Vote Count 1.4

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

malpascp (4): Ghostlin, ChaosOmega, Seacore, PeregrineV
Seacore (2): WeyounsLastClone, malpascp
hiphop (1): Midnight's Sorrow
WeyounsLastClone (1): bobsnox
Ghostlin (1): Ethos
bobsnox (1): RedCoyote

Not voting (3): HellloooNewman, IceGuy, hiphop

V/LA: Seacore (July 4th)

Deadline is July 12th, 2011, at 1:00pm EST (site time).
Countdown to deadline:

(expired on 2011-07-12 13:00:00)

Most Advertised Ability:

None

#	Name	Minimum Bid	Current Bid	Auction Length	Countdown
1	Cop x 2	$50	$50	7 days	(expired on 2011-07-05 13:00:00)
2	Doctor x 2	$40	$40	5 days	(expired on 2011-07-03 13:00:00)
3	Extra Vote x 2	$10	$40	3 days	(expired on 2011-07-01 13:00:00)
4	Governor x 1	$30	$30	5 days	(expired on 2011-07-03 13:00:00)
5	Investigation Immunity x 4	$25	$25	5 days	(expired on 2011-07-03 13:00:00)
6	Last Will x 3	$25	$25	3 days	(expired on 2011-07-01 13:00:00)
7	Neighborizer x 3	$20	-	5 days	(expired on 2011-07-03 13:00:00)
8	Night-kill x 1	$50	$50	7 days	(expired on 2011-07-05 13:00:00)
9	Oracle x 2	$10	$20	3 days	(expired on 2011-07-01 13:00:00)
10	Setup Information x 3	$10	$41	3 days	(expired on 2011-07-01 13:00:00)
11	Vote Nullifier x 1	$25	$26	3 days	(expired on 2011-07-01 13:00:00)

I will be slightly LA this weekend. I'm expecting to update the vote count / auctions twice a day, but you may have to wait 'till evening to receive anything from a winning auction today. We apologize for the inconvenience.

[WeyounsLastClone]

a) how would scum know what other people would bid any more than town?
b) bidding non 0/5 numbers is a great way to just get over people's heads.

Remember the price is right? "I think that the vacuum cleaner is worth $400" "I think it's worth $401", "Fuck you, buddy"

At a), that's exactly it you wouldn't know what town bid, but you could've worked something out with one of your scum buddies if you were scum. I just don't believe someone bidding exactly $40 and you bidding exactly $41 dollars.

[HellloooNewman]

He could've bid $50 as his max. Someone else bids $40 as their max, so that would make his current (winning) bid $41. Like on ebay.

Also, re: cop claims. For some reason I read that Cop was x1, not the x2 that it is. IMO, cop should declare a guilty read on D2, otherwise staying silent. Then, after using the 2nd shot, inform the town of both results.

[WeyounsLastClone]

He could've bid $50 as his max. Someone else bids $40 as their max, so that would make his current (winning) bid $41. Like on ebay.

True, but from his statements I believed he had bid exactly $41. Seacore, can you confirm?

[malpascp]

IceGuy: the Governor particullarity you mentioned is awesome, but only if everyone sticks to that plan. Also, scum may immunize a townie to make him being linched next day.

Yeah, but it costs them a mislynch.

Actually, the most likely is the 2nd best lynch to be a townie too. In that case, town gets lynched anyway, and the next day the immunized townie is lynched. Unless we are smarter than them, of course.

[Ghostlin]

He could've bid $50 as his max. Someone else bids $40 as their max, so that would make his current (winning) bid $41. Like on ebay.

True, but from his statements I believed he had bid exactly $41. Seacore, can you confirm?

Why is that so important? I had thought we had all agreed to let Seacore have Setup Information for the reasons Seacore listed in the post where he claimed the bid.

[Ghostlin]

Advertising is bad due to the fact that someone can spend great amounts of funds advertising to assure that a particular item is up for grabs the following day only to have mafia outbid us for it wasting the money spent on advertising. A possible suggestion I was toying with earlier is asking our leading suspects to spend their funds on advertising potentially draining money from the scums fund pool however I haven't worked out if it's optimal yet or not.

Seacore has the leading bid on Setup Info for $41 and Hiphop has the leading bid on Investigation Immunity for $25. No one should attempt to outbid either of them on these items unless they openly state suspicion of these playesr in thread, any outbid of these items right now will be considered to be from scum.

A few questions:

1) I believe that either Doctor or Cop should be advertised everyday we're playing to max the opportunities to use those abilites since it's almost guaranteed that I do not think they'll be up for bids otherwise. Do you think it's worth advertising those abilties?

2) Why do you think Hiplop is town since he bid on II?

[Ethos]

1. We both believe that advertising and oracle are both relatively useless at this point in the game however I am very much entertaining the idea of the scummier players spending funds on advertising cop and doctor for the sole reason for removing likely mafias fund pool.

2. Our town read on hiplop revolves around his attitude towards investigation immunity and his curiosity of investments mechanics in his first post. Also, mafia want to attain investigation immunity to be falsely cleared by the cop, this doesn't work if they claim they hold it inthread. Town on the other hand want to prevent mafia from attaining investigation immunity therefore want to claim they have it proving any innocent or guilty to be confirmed.

[malpascp]

I think that every bid on Investigation Immunity should be claimed. It's usefull information to town and it is useless to scum, right?

Please don't ignore me

[Ethos]

You are correct in stating that there's very minimal downside to investigation immunity bids being claimed however there should be no reason for anyone else to outbid hiplop in investigation immunity at this point.

[bobsnox]

I like Ethos's idea in 132.

RC - I'm just trying to make sure I understand what's going on. The best way to do that is to read a lot and speak little. I do, however, still think WLC is scummy and would like to see more pressure in that direction.

[HellloooNewman]

I like Ethos's idea in 132.

RC - I'm just trying to make sure I understand what's going on. The best way to do that is to

read a lot and speak little

. I do, however, still think WLC is scummy and would like to see more pressure in that direction.

I've been in a few games with you, and that has not been your MO before. Why the change?

[bobsnox]

Usually I have some good idea of what's going on or at least I mislead myself into thinking I do. But that is not the case in this game. We haven't played together in a game like that before. But tell me this since I have your attention - would you ISO WLC and give me a read?

[HellloooNewman]

After looking it over, I don't see anything particularly scummy. He does seem to have a minor hard on regarding Seacore's $41 bid, but other than that, it is pretty null.

[PeregrineV]

Advertising is bad due to the fact that someone can spend great amounts of funds advertising to assure that a particular item is up for grabs the following day only to have mafia outbid us for it wasting the money spent on advertising. A possible suggestion I was toying with earlier is asking our leading suspects to spend their funds on advertising potentially draining money from the scums fund pool however I haven't worked out if it's optimal yet or not.

Seacore has the leading bid on Setup Info for $41 and Hiphop has the leading bid on Investigation Immunity for $25. No one should attempt to outbid either of them on these items unless they openly state suspicion of these playesr in thread, any outbid of these items right now will be considered to be from scum.

Without advertising, we have no way of knowing what will be up for auction. Unless the Oracle person shares their results with us.

@Magua- Can Oracle winners share their results without it being considered quote a mod PM?

If they can't, then we can probably work around it, but let's see what Magua says.

[PeregrineV]

Why MS?

Because Ms thinks that me wanting the investigation immunity, is scum motivated. When it is far more likely that they would take the cop instead, since nobody could possibly outbid them. Essentially making investigation immunity null. All ms is doing is digging for something that is not there.

Don't be so naive.

Your basically saying scum have absolutely no motivation to acquire Investigation Immunity- when they are the the only roles it that it would even remotely be useful to. Townies, and even the proverbial TP, would have no use for it, other then to keep it from the mafia- because Cop Results come back, "Mafia" or "Not Mafia".

Also, don't be so presumptuous.

Mafia will be far more concerned with getting the NK, then any other ability.

======================================================

Regfan

- I don't understand why you continue to feel like Advertising is not to the Town's best interest.

Do you not understand that only the NK ability is guaranteed everyday?

We have every reason to use it- especially with Doctor and Cop abilities, simply because the ones today won't last forever, and then where will we be?

That said I agree with most of what you said, with the exception of Advertising and stating of transfers.

@Midnight- I would like to know where in the OP you read this, or failing that, how you came by this information (the bolded part). Thanks.

[HellloooNewman]

If quoting the oracle is disallowed, perhaps asking yes/no questions is an easy way around it.