Mini 1198 - Marketplace Mafia - Game Over

[hiphop]

1. I had bid $450 on watcher, not GI. If you want to spend $451 go ahead and take it.

2. If you really think my self-vote was a gambit(first time I have voted myself), why would I send GI $448.(confirm tomorrow), for if I was the sk, then the game would be over? And if I wasn't I would need that money for myself. In fact, why would I have sent the $100 to GI 2 days ago, for if I was the Sk, I am sending money to someone that has a different win condition?

3. Me voting for Hn, instead of you Ethos, even though Seacore(the potential hammerer), supports your lynch, shows what? For if you look at the board, you, who support my lynch, combined with voided, and Hn(who won't vote for himself), could easily put me away. When I need you, or voided, which both of you support my lynch over Hn, to switch over, in order to get this lynch. Yet, my vote remains, because Hn is the SK. Furthermore, Voided holds the Nk, and me as the SK, clearly is showing that I would rather have Ethos-me potential kill tonight, when voided has said, he would rather have me dead then you(Ethos). Compare that to you being lynched, and a hn-me, who Voided has not given an opinion on. Yet my vote remains, because Hn is the SK. Why, Ethos? Exactly, because Hn is the SK.

Now will you please vote with me, for the longer we sit here, the longer the chance the SK has of bidding on an item and stealing the funds.

A few things to note.
1. If the Sk wins commuter, it does him no good, because he can't RB as well, creating only 1 obstacle for hitman to get through.(I just realized that)
2. The Sk most likely won gravedigger, since no one has volunteered, which means he holds DV. So in my opinion if town wake up tomorrow with 4 alive, they should no vote, and get the nk instead. This way, the sk can't have town vote for another town, and then auto-lynch them with Dv.

[Ethos]

Sending money to someone else doesn't confirm yourself as town at all, not sure how you're even attempting to state that it does. Your selfvote as robber would be an attempt to seem town and throw suspicion of you and the transfer of funds follows with the story. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying the selfvote or sending the funds makes you mafia, I'm just saying it's not the town-tell that Slaxx seems to think it is.

Again how is you avoiding my lynch something that shows you as town? You've shown a continual town-read of us, voting us after doing so would be a scum claim. Voided only supports your lynch over mine, I'm sure he has no particular qualms with voting Newman. If you honestly are certain that Newman is the SK you wouldn't give a rats ass about the length of the day because hell even if he stole 1 million dollars he would still be lynched and lose.

I still haven't had a chance to do the re-read I wanted/need to do, having a lot of real life shit commitments bite me in the ass right now but I promise I'll have it done by tomorrow afternoon.

[hiphop]

ok, Ethos, if you say so, though I still disagree. Curious- Have you sent any money to Seacore or Voided before today, if even today? If not, why?

Also, you are still second, whether or not you agree that you should be 2nd on my list. The main reason as to why I believe one of you is the sk, is because of this page. There was less than 30 minutes from the votecount to when the robber struck. There were 3 people who posted between the votecount and the theft. You, IceGuy, and Hn. All of this happened 7am in the morning on a Friday.(I was asleep, who would get up that early, when they don't have to.) Nobody alive, besides you and Hn, posted hours before, or hours after this happened. Granted, of course, someone could have been lurking at 7am in the morning, and saw the bids, stole, and left within 30 minutes, but why shouldn't we look at the obvious first? Now, most likely, you will come back screaming as we shouldn't based the sk on something that has nothing to do with posting, but I am, especially when clearly the SK is most likely one of you 2.

[hiphop]

In fact Seacore was V/la at this time.

[Ethos]

Yes. We did transfer all of our funds today to one of Seacore/Voided the second that we started getting voted so it would start to be transfered incase a blitz occurred though admittedly we didn't have much to send. The cop purchase left us almost broke.

Don't get me wrong, I understand what you mean about the robbing time however what you're failing to notice is two things:

1) Not everyone is from America and therefore it wasn't 7am everywhere.
2) The robber can ask to have the robbing occur at a certain time, ie they could ask to have it done when they're not awake.

[hiphop]

2) The robber can ask to have the robbing occur at a certain time, ie they could ask to have it done when they're not awake.

Really? I wonder if we can mod-confirm this. Though I am not sure why it would not have been simultaneously with the vote count.

[Ethos]

Really? I wonder if we can mod-confirm this. Though I am not sure why it would not have been simultaneously with the vote count.

I read through the OP and I actually can't find it so I'm unsure where I read it. I'll take another look later but yes, Magua confirming if they have the ability not to or to do so would be appreciated though.

[Magua]

I read through the OP and I actually can't find it so I'm unsure where I read it. I'll take another look later but yes, Magua confirming if they have the ability not to or to do so would be appreciated though.

Rule I.21. I will happily accept actions to occur at a specific time.

Your convenience is our #1 priority.

[Ethos]

Your convenience is our #1 priority.

That's what your wife said last night, uh. I mean hi.

[GreyICE]

Hydra bickering is not a town tell, and this set is pissing me off, as is complex night action plans of doom.

You see, seacore? You see where all this talk of mechanical wobbledeedoo leads? Pick Your Power, Seacore. It's not pretty.

[Ethos]

Grey, fuck talking about mechanics then, talk about your actual reads.

We're flipping town whether lynched today or shot tonight and you'll have to reassess your reads then regardless so you may as well start actually doing it now while I'm alive to discuss it with you. You can ignore Voided because he gets cleared/confirmed tonight. That only leaves Seacore, Hiphop and Newman to elaborate into.

[Ethos]

Heck, I won't even play coy. Grey, say you lynch us today, we flip town, Newman gets shot tonight, he flips town. Then who's scum?

[GreyICE]

Heck, I won't even play coy. Grey, say you lynch us today, we flip town, Newman gets shot tonight, he flips town. Then who's scum?

Seriously? At that point I hope night actions deconfirm Voided, because Hiphop is just not scum, and I don't think Seacore is either, for so many reasons.

Why are you asking me why I only have two candidates for scum, with one preferred, when there's ONLY ONE SCUM LEFT?

Seriously, I might have quite a few scummy people day 1 in a large with 5 or 6 scum, but there's ONE SCUMBAG here, why are you expecting players to have 3-4 scumreads?

[Ethos]

I'm not expecting you to have 3-4 scum-reads, far from it. What I am expecting you to have though is differing strengths in your reads. For my example my current reads are:

Town: Seacore -> GreyICE -> Voidedmafia -> Newman -> Hiphop: Scum

[Voidedmafia]

Town Ethos -> GreyICE -> Seacore -> Hiphop -> Newman.

On that note, since I'm getting the sense that neither an Ethos nor a Hiphop lynch is likely,

Unvote, and Vote: Newman

[GreyICE]

If we're doing it that way,

Seacore -> Hiphop -> VoidedMafia -> Newman -> You

I don't really want to imply that each -> represents a linear jump downwards, like you seem to want me to. I especially am not overwhelmed by the idea that the Hiphop case is anything other than 'oh shit we really need to kill someone who isn't HelloNewman stat if we want to live through this.' Voided is still, ever since giving me an early town read, dodging the thread, which adds to be very consistent with a third party who was actually genuinely scumhunting. Not RBing me would make him town if it was anything other than a SK, but the number of bulletproof SKs is fairly high. Still, his luck would have to be running like the gods ('saved' by the doctor, cleared by a bulletproof, decided to not even use roleblocker on the tracker or the guy submitting the night kill, etc.) and that seems farfetched.

I've read everything you've said about Hiphop, read him in the thread, and I still don't see it. I don't see why you think that he's trying to 'make friends' when I don't think he is. He's working with me and the town, but come the fuck on. Just buddying everyone? Oh no. He's poked me hard a few times to see if what I was saying was at all logical, and disagreed with me to boot. That's not so much buddying as working with town reads, I'm getting used to the difference. You don't jab the people you're buddying in the stomach and ask them what the hell they're doing with their logic.

The 'attempts to figure today out' he's doing seem, if not 'exactly what optimal play is,' heads and shoulders above, say, VoidedMafia, Seacore, and HelloNewman, which puts to rest the idea that town absolutely wouldn't play like that. So again, it seems unfounded.

And then we get to this hydra waffle. At the exact time when the SK would need a desperate action to have a hope of winning, hiphop does a desperate action, and now the hydra is all 'welp infighting' and slaxx is like 'later y'all kill everyone lol' and now we're conflicted.

So, overall, yeaaaaahhhhhhh. Not too worried about the game being ongoing after this lynch.

[Ethos]

This is near the end of the game, it's not the time for you to go full out retard especially when it should be automatic win. Heck state you suspect us all you want, state that you believe we're robber but stating that you're near certain the game ends upon our lynch is idiotic at this point in the game because I'm not going to lie, my scum meta is fucking bad. I'm obvious as mafia read Defcon and Mafia Invicitus for prime examples so when someone says that I'm sure-fire mafia when I'm town it literally pisses me of.

The case on Hiphop is a LOT more than us suspecting him over Newman, reading through his actions he HAS undeniably been smooth sailing throughout most of the game based solely on the night-kill he did, he's avoided stating strong reads and when he has he's gone back on them very quickly. Tell me any strong reads he stated he had earlier in the game (As in prior to this day-phase), I dare you to. A key example of this occurring was him literally arguing with you last night telling you that Newman is town, the second the day starts he claims that Newman is confirmed scum yet he doesn't vote him instead pussy foots around. He then attempts to speed up the day stating that there's no reason not to lynch Newman before the robber can do anything which contradicts with his pussy footing around earlier but it's NOT just that he actually states the reasoning he wants to speed up the day is so the robber gets nothing while saying Newman is confirmed scum and the game ends on his lynch.

Slaxxs and my actions were not hydra waffle at all and you were following the quicktopic so you should know this. I've paid a lot more attention to this game than Slaxx and he has a tendency to relax and stand back when a game looks won, he has literally no qualms with us dying and having everyone dead besides Seacore and Voidedmafia whereas I'm different. I don't lie down and do jack shit, I try to push on the people I believe are scum, stand back and reevaluate and a lot more because I want to nail the robber, I honestly do and I want to be alive when the game ends not just say "Lol shoot everyone but X and Y" for lol win.

The more I re-read the more convinced I am that your slot is town, I do NOT see MS bidding on governor and cop as robber nor do I see him flaking and remaining inactive considering SK is his favorite role. I also do not see Seacore as robber and Voided gets confirmed tonight so there's no reason to dwell on his alignment. That leaves me with Hiphop and Newman which is the fucking reason I've been trying to get reads from you because I literally do not understand the strength or even the existence of your town-read on hiphop considering his continual contradictions of attitude throughout the previous few pages.

Knowing you this is all likely to have no effect on your read of us and you won't change your mind and will continue to push us, I know and accept that however I need some form of guarantee that Hiphop is lynched at some point later in the game if not today because if he wins as robber I would rip my hair out in utter frustration.

On an unrelated note to this entire post Slaxx just messaged me asking what else have you done with your shopping spree powers/abilities?

[Ethos]

I'm done walling. This is going back up.

Vote: Hiphop

[Voidedmafia]

The 'attempts to figure today out' he's doing seem, if not 'exactly what optimal play is,' heads and shoulders above, say, VoidedMafia

You know me, Grey. I try in the beginning, and then slack off at the end. that's practically my town meta at this point. <_<

[GreyICE]

I've done NOTHING else with my shopping spree powers because I need an advertised ability, and only two have been advertised. I still have one shot of it sitting in reserve, but the decision not to advertise anything yesterday means that the best I can do is snag a 1 shot of anything that is advertised tonight, and use it tomorrow night.

Which is not optimal, but since I can't advertise beans, well, that's that. I'd rage, since I did ask in the QT for things to be advertised, but it's water under the bridge, and this game has NOT been won using powers (seriously, we caught, what, zero scum on tracker/watcher/cop results?)

[Magua]

Breaking News

The following auction has completed:

#	Name	Minimum Bid	Winning Bid	Auction Length
41	Commuter x 2	$25	$25	5 days

[Magua]

Vote Count 6.5

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

HellloooNewman (3): hiphop, Seacore, Voidedmafia
Ethos (2): GreyICE, HellloooNewman
hiphop (1): Ethos

Deadline is August 19th, at 10:00am EST (site time).
Countdown to deadline:

(expired on 2011-08-19 10:00:00)

Most Advertised Ability:

Tracker

#	Name	Minimum Bid	Current Bid	Auction Length	Countdown
42	Gravedigger x 1	$40	$40	7 days	(expired on 2011-08-12 10:00:00)
43	Night-kill x 1	$50	$50	7 days	(expired on 2011-08-12 10:00:00)
44	Watcher x 1	$20	$200	7 days	(expired on 2011-08-12 10:00:00)

Spoiler: Abridged Ability Glossary

• Gravedigger (Targeted):
  Choose another player who has died. You will receive all of the abilities they had when they died. This activation and the dead player who was chosen will be announced in-thread, but not who activated it or what was received.
• Night-kill (Targeted):
  Choose another player. That player will die unless protected.
• Watcher (Targeted):
  Choose another player. You will be informed which players (if any) visited that player during the Night, but not the nature of each visit. However, other abilities may modify the result of the report. A roleblocked ability activation is not considered a visit.

[HellloooNewman]

I'm town. You guys are idiots. I'm gonna transfer my money to Seacore.

I have Last Will and Medium, so don't bother GDing me.

[hiphop]

I'm gonna transfer my money to Seacore.

Did you do this?

unvote

I think we should no-lynch.

GI- I heard you are a big fan of meta, have you done it on me?

Best game I have ever played. 2 scum dead, day 3. I go from one of Spyrex, Crypto scum to them town, to them scum, to them town again. Spyrex the last scum lynched, I was not part of it. It was not lylo.

scum game
scum game
town game

Last 4 complete games, though the first 1, was last year.

[Ethos]

Hiphop, you state that you're sure that Newman is final scum, he's at L-1 why would you unvote to suggest a no-lynch? Also GI isn't a big fan of meta, GI hates excessive meta.