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Post Post #50 (ISO) » Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:12 am

Post by Darkcoffeejazz »

MagnaofIllusion wrote:

DarkCoffee wrote:It's more like you were being an asshole, so why should I fucking give you what you want when you didn't even respect me enough to ask politely.
It has nothing to do with the game itself.


So you are saying your post at 27, where you intimate that you have seen Jily post similarly in 1110, isn’t an alignment indication?

Jily was Mafia in that game. Please explain the Déjà vu comment if it isn’t game related then.



You misunderstand. Viscera said his 'joke' in such a way as to appear an asshole to me. That's what I was referring to. Whether I found him to be an ass or not wouldn't be game related. Saying things like "yeah we get it" just scream "You're irritating me now shut the fuck up, idiot" to me.
And normally I don't get offended by every little thing. I just wasn't in a good mood to begin with last night, so I went to bed.

As a result of last night, I'm going to be ignoring Eyes there. At least for a few days. It's for the best.

As for the Deja Vu comment, I was indeed indicating that the last time I was in a game with her, she flipped Scum. So my gut was trying to decide if she's being the same way as that game or not.
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Post Post #51 (ISO) » Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:25 am

Post by Darkcoffeejazz »

EBWOP: As for the 'ragequit' comment regarding the game Jily and I were in... that wasn't a result of the game or how it was going. It was all because of Hiraki and Katsuki both. I'd had enough so I replaced out, because it wasn't fun anymore. And what's the point in playing if you can't have fun?

I just want to make that abundantly clear.
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Post Post #52 (ISO) » Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:36 am

Post by GenericName »

VOTE: VisceraEyes
malpascp and jilynne1991 are my other top suspects.
Explanations upon request.
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Post Post #53 (ISO) » Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:55 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

GenericName wrote:VOTE: VisceraEyes
malpascp and jilynne1991 are my other top suspects.
Explanations upon request.


Request.
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Post Post #54 (ISO) » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:12 am

Post by GenericName »

For all?
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Post Post #55 (ISO) » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:16 am

Post by Gammagooey »


Votecount #2

jilynne1991(2) Darkcoffeejazz, StefanB
VisceraEyes(2) IH, GenericName
kondi2424(1) MagnaofIllusion
verydark(1) malpascp
GenericName(1) verydark
MagnaofIllusion(1) jilynne1991
Coventry(0)
SigmaEXE003(0)
IH(0)
malpascp(0)
StefanB(0)
Darkcoffeejazz(0)

Not Voting:kondi2424, Coventry, SigmaEXE003, VisceraEyes
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch!


Deadline: Tuesday, July 26th 6:00pm EST


kondi still hasn't picked up his role PM, currently looking for a replacement.
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Post Post #56 (ISO) » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:43 am

Post by VisceraEyes »

@Mod
I believe I should have 2 votes (IH and GenericName), and GenericName should have 1 vote (verydark) , and I should be not voting.

Yeah, I put you as voting generic instead of the other way around. Thanks!

@Generic
I also would like to hear your reasons. Voting with no reason given is super suspicious to me...even if they're "upon request".

@DCJ
Saying things like "yeah we get it" just scream "You're irritating me now shut the fuck up, idiot" to me.

This is not what I meant, and I'm pretty sure you know it. Now stop misrepresenting my intentions, as I feel I've made them abundantly clear. I'll respect the fact that you're just going to ignore me (my daughter is 3 so I understand the logic) and not address you again directly until you "forgive" me or whatever...but regardless of whether that's just your interpretation or not, I won't just sit here and let you put words like that in my mouth that I didn't say. I don't think you're an idiot, I didn't think you were being irritating, and obviously I wasn't asking you to shut the fuck up. NOTHING about your interpretation was accurate, and I think you should know that. Now, as you were.
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Post Post #57 (ISO) » Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:25 pm

Post by Darkcoffeejazz »

Yes, call me 3. I'm sure that makes me feel better.

Also, Generic, yes. FOR ALL.
Now explain. Though I think the reason is obvious.
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Post Post #58 (ISO) » Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:10 pm

Post by Coventry »

StefanB
, if you don’t follow a lynch all liars policy then I would like to tell you that when I typed 2/9 = 3/12 I was making a sarcastic jab at Eyes. If you do…yeah, numbers are hard and I am really stupid. Thank you for pointing it out so kindly.

Eyes
, thank you very much for your answers.

VeryDark
, this is a small thing, but the following quote of yours, joined with your apparent disdain for Eyes' approach in taking us rapidly beyond the RVS (which seems to have largely worked and which you simplified somehow as only an attempt to avoid OMGUS), has made me curious:

verydark wrote:I LOL at people posting their "Top Scum Pick" or are
already
accusing people of being scum. I personally have nothing to base an argument on currently, other than a lot of flared tempers and pointless bickering.


I don't have a "top scum pick" nor have I accused anyone of being scum. But there is more content in the first three pages of this game than in the first twenty of some games I've played. Now it is early on day one and you've only made three posts so far, but your last post was so lacking in helpful content and dismissive of those who seem to be trying to scumhunt, as well as, from my perspective anyway, unrepresentative of what is actually in thread, that I would like to ask its purpose. I would also, I suppose, like to ask how you prefer to go about trying to identify the bad guys.

Thank you in advance for your response.
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Post Post #59 (ISO) » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:19 pm

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

@Viscera
– I’m going to second Stephan’s request that you don’t answer directly within quotes when responding to players. Obviously it is not intended by you as a means of deception but it borders on quote tampering which is pretty consistently scummy. Also it is possible that people could easily misconstrue things you type into the quote as the words of the player you are quoting.

--

GenericName wrote:For all?


Absolutely. I didn’t ask for my health. If you have concrete reasons you suspect those 3 players I want to see them to help develop my read on you.

--

DarkCoffee wrote:You misunderstand. Viscera said his 'joke' in such a way as to appear an asshole to me. That's what I was referring to. Whether I found him to be an ass or not wouldn't be game related. Saying things like "yeah we get it" just scream "You're irritating me now shut the fuck up, idiot" to me.


Thanks for clarifying.

Do you think Viscera, as scum, would be as openly insulting and abrasive as he has been so far?

--

StephanB wrote:Any other policy you wan't to share, where you can vote someone without calling them scummy? I have seen people getting prods that were very active in games normally and clearly not lurking.


1. What games have you seen where ‘very active’ players have gotten prods? I’d like a frame of reference for your stance here.

--

Viscera wrote:I learned to play mafia on the Team Liquid forums, where the games generally follow a 48hr day / 24hr night cycle...so the games were ever-so-slightly faster-paced. But you appear to be asking if I come from EpicMafia I've played on EpicMafia, but I found it to be full of trolls and I HATE how no-lynch is THE policy d1 (specifically because they're so dependent on PRs to do the heavy lifting.)


Interesting response. No, I was in no way asking if you came from EpicMafia. I’ve seen any number of forums sites where Days are compressed (as you describe). In most cases I have found that the level of Non-Power Role scum-hunting on those site is generally much weaker than it is here.

Viscera wrote:I'm simultaneously playing a Newbie Game...forgive my mix-up. This wasn't an intentional mistake designed to mislead town, if that's what you're implying


Did you have this same discussion in your Newbie Game where you might have had reason to copy / paste it into this thread as opposed to retyping? I ask because I find that often in set-ups with known Mafia distributions a tell I’ve discovered is for Mafia members to mix-up that number in responses.

Viscera wrote:You seem very concerned about people depending on the power roles doing all the work...which speaks to me that you yourself have EpicMafia background where that is RAMPANT.


It probably will be a good move in the future for you not to make such rampant assumptions like you have in many of your responses to me.

Viscera wrote:I didn't think that. I was prodding him for information by suggesting it, but at no point did I actually think he was buddying here.


So when you typed “appearing to buddy” you didn’t mean it at all?

What sort of information were you looking for? What was your impression of his posting then if you were smoke-screening about buddying?

Viscera wrote:I was simply pointing out that he had information that he wasn't sharing, I asked him to share it, he didn't.


Given the rather abrasive manner you asked in I’m not surprised he didn’t respond in a cooperative manner.

Viscera wrote:Patience...one at a time sir, one at a time. I single VeryDark out first because I hate his avatar...really, who uses nothing but WORDS in their PICTURE?! I just noticed that he'd posted, but hadn't posted again. Nothing else.


Are you incapable of addressing multiple players at the same time?
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Post Post #60 (ISO) » Wed Jul 13, 2011 5:53 pm

Post by Darkcoffeejazz »

MagnaofIllusion wrote:
@Viscera
– I’m going to second Stephan’s request that you don’t answer directly within quotes when responding to players. Obviously it is not intended by you as a means of deception but it borders on quote tampering which is pretty consistently scummy. Also it is possible that people could easily misconstrue things you type into the quote as the words of the player you are quoting.


Thirded.


Thanks for clarifying.

Do you think Viscera, as scum, would be as openly insulting and abrasive as he has been so far?


Not knowing the guy, I dunno. He knows of EpicMafia, and I can second his views that there are a lot of trolls there, as well as the reluctance to lynch unless they can afford a mislynch, or it is Lylo. This may also explain some of his abrasiveness.
However, being a bit of a jerk at times myself, I know for a fact that inappropriate behavior (such as insults, etc.) doesn't necessarily mean that the person is scum. Just like with anything that's said, you have to view it in the context it is spoken. Obviously, insulting everyone on your wagon when you're getting lynched could be a scum, but more than likely I've found it to be a raging townie.
So really, without knowing the person themselves, I'm not sure I can make a judgment call on that one.
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Post Post #61 (ISO) » Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:11 pm

Post by jilynne1991 »

You guys...I am sooo sorry, but I really need to start cutting the crap out of my life, because I'm going to a math camp soon and then I'm trying to get into a boarding school, I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to leave mafiascum, sorry. :(
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Post Post #62 (ISO) » Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:19 am

Post by verydark »

Coventry wrote:
...Now it is early on day one and you've only made three posts so far, but your last post was so lacking in helpful content and dismissive of those who seem to be trying to scumhunt, as well as, from my perspective anyway, unrepresentative of what is actually in thread, that I would like to ask its purpose. I would also, I suppose, like to ask how you prefer to go about trying to identify the bad guys.


Ok, well, just to point out that you have a whopping FOUR posts, and most people on here have less than five, so I'll dismiss the post count as anything I need to defend.

"Lacking in helpful content" is relative. In my posts I've answered questions directed to me and contributed my thoughts which is that
it is too early to make a top scum pick.


I agree, I've played games that go through RVS for many pages before anything really materializes. But I really don't see how Viscera's questioning has moved us along much further. For instance, malpascp, GenericName, IH, and soon to be replaced jilynne1991, all have less than 3 posts, with minimal content. The fact is, that in mafia games, you'll start to pick up reads and player styles many real-life days into the game. After we have a chance to weed out the replacers and "settle in" to the game, I will have more ammunition to go after scum.

Now, I could jump on the Viscera wagon because, yes, he is abrasive- but there are FOUR players who have yet to have the chance to "slip up" or solidify their "towniness". I'm not going to wager a mislynch on one chatty player. Time will tell exactly how scummy Viscera is.

If I absolutely HAD to make a top scum pick right now, it would definitely be jilynne1991, who basically responded to Viscera's questions in a fashion that leaves her plenty of "reason" to vote for anybody she wants, not based on game theory, but personal preference for play style. This is scummy, but I have nothing else to fuel this fire. She will be replaced soon, so we will have to see what the replacement says/does.

As for how I like to scum hunt...

Personally, I've been habitually accused of "Tunnel Vision" which I don't really consider scummy. If I have my sights on you, I'm going to push and push and push, until you slip-up or until you prove yourself. I'm not blind to other arguments, and if someone brings something new to the table that I can stand behind, I will go that direction. Town needs to work together, and part of working together is having your "hunches" then providing the other players with facts that support it. You may very well catch something I missed, and it's important for us all to throw out any ideas we have.
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Post Post #63 (ISO) » Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:47 am

Post by Coventry »

VeryDark, thank you very much for your answers. You were quite correct, when I mentioned the number of posts you'd made it was to point out that it is early, not that you hadn't posted enough. I quite like your description of how you scum hunt.

I want to be clear about the post of yours which I referenced, however. I was not criticizing you for not having made your own bad guy list or having cast a serious vote. I have done neither of those things myself. It was the disdain you seemed to be showing for both the process so far and the efforts of those who were pushing the discussion. Pushing that discussion is what gives us leads and for many players the placing of an early serious vote or making an early list of who they feel are behaving in the scummiest fashion is their way of applying the pressure that will help them develop their reads. That was the attitude I was questioning, both because it made me wonder about your mindset, because it seemed to discount the scumhunting that was going on, however small the current pool in which it can be done is, and because it seemed designed to having a chilling effect on those who were trying to move the game forward.

Thank you for clarifying.
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Post Post #64 (ISO) » Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:02 am

Post by verydark »

No problem, I never meant to come off as dismissive of anyone's attempt at scumhunting, but I'm just leary of anyone who is already posting their "top scum pick". It's wagon's like these...this early...that get townies killed. I will
not
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Post Post #65 (ISO) » Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:05 am

Post by StefanB »

First
Unvote

Let's give the replacement some room.

Magna:
I will have to search for one, because the one in my mind, I can't link you to. But it is new to you that someone forgot to post that they are VLA and has been sended a prod? Because someone got a prod doesn't mean he is necessary a lurker and has to be lynched, that was my point. But okay I have played in a Game were you could
be proded on playerrequests after 24 hours. (I have never recieved a prod before, to take that thought away)

Verydark: I can see where you come from, but are you not perhaps overreacting a bit? A topsuspect now is not someone who is one at the end of the day. I appload your caution, but why are you so affraid of a waggon of 4 people if we need 7 to lynch? Not quicklynching is a goal but at the moment the town is in no danger to do that. We are coutiness at the moment. I give you that Topscumpick was worded a bit strong.
StefanB:
Also, OMGUS? What is your definition of it? If you take the wikidefinition, it hasn't happened yet.

Any reason you didn't answer that question?

I too am looking forward to meeting the replacments.
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Post Post #66 (ISO) » Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:41 am

Post by GenericName »

I've already PMed the mod, but I'm replacing out.
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Post Post #67 (ISO) » Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:58 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

At this point the thread is moving pretty slowly with two players currently in replacement limbo and Sigma still V/LA. Hopefully Gamma has replacement luck and we can get moving on scum-hunting with a full set of players soon.

--

verydark wrote:"Lacking in helpful content" is relative. In my posts I've answered questions directed to me and contributed my thoughts which is that it is too early to make a top scum pick.


I disagree, at least from a gameplay theory standpoint, that it is too early in the game to have seen something you find scummy. Does that mean said person is certified scum who must be killed ASAP? No, but following up on what you find scummy is the best way to further develop and strengthen reads.

--

StefanB wrote:Magna:
I will have to search for one, because the one in my mind, I can't link you to. But it is new to you that someone forgot to post that they are VLA and has been sended a prod? Because someone got a prod doesn't mean he is necessary a lurker and has to be lynched, that was my point. But okay I have played in a Game were you could
be proded on playerrequests after 24 hours. (I have never recieved a prod before, to take that thought away)


Oh I’m not saying it has never happened. From a general standpoint however I find that players who get prodded tend to be overwhelmingly players who are not active in thread. I myself am on V/LA more or less every weekend so I understand that posting it is sometimes missed.

Regardless someone getting a Prod isn’t grounds for immediately voting the player on that standpoint alone. Had said player been posting all over MS while not being active in thread I would strongly consider pressuring them. In general it is all about the play of the player and the circumstances of their low activity.

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Post Post #68 (ISO) » Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:10 am

Post by Gammagooey »


Votecount #3

VisceraEyes(2) IH, SleepyKrew(GenericName)
kondi2424(1) MagnaofIllusion
verydark(1) malpascp
SleepyKrew(GenericName)(1) verydark
Lady Lambdadelta(jilynne1991)(1) Darkcoffeejazz
MagnaofIllusion(1) Lady Lambdadelta(jilynne1991)
Coventry(0)
SigmaEXE003(0)
IH(0)
malpascp(0)
StefanB(0)
Darkcoffeejazz(0)

Not Voting:kondi2424, Coventry, SigmaEXE003, VisceraEyes, StefanB
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch!


Deadline: Tuesday, July 26th 6:00pm EST


SleepyKrew replaces GenericName, Lady Lambdadelta replaces jilynne1991, and if I'm lucky I'll have a replacement for kondi by later tonight.
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Post Post #69 (ISO) » Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:27 am

Post by VisceraEyes »

Darkcoffeejazz wrote:Thirded


Okay, three was the magic number. I'll refrain from quoting inside others' quoted posts. I can absolutely see the argument against as valid.

Thank you. That is all.
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Post Post #70 (ISO) » Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:28 pm

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Post Post #71 (ISO) » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:11 pm

Post by Lady Lambdadelta »

VisceraEyes wrote:
jilynne1991 wrote:It's not scummy to ask question, but you the reactions like the OMGUS is more likely to lead to a scumslip than asking questions.

Anyways, as for a personal preference, I do like RQS more, don't ask me why, I don't know, I just know I like it better.

1) You're not going to find me voting "No Lynch" unless we're at MYLO. I don't understand why you would no lynch on the first day. Any information is helpful.
You just made you're way to being the first person on my scum list.


2) I'm going to agree with your logic on this one, simply because you'll never find me lurking as mafia. I may very well be inactive as town, because quite honestly, it's as boring as he--.

3) If you got a prod, or I've see you online at least 3x without posting, I'm voting you.


So because you disagree with me, I must be scum. Delightful, I'm sure we're going to get along just fine. /wrist

No, the reason I feel No Lynch is viable in that scenario is because lynching someone based on no scummy behavior gives no information. All it does is diminish town's number by one...and then another at night. If there's no clear candidate, then there's no information to be had from the flip. Sure, there's a 2/9 chance that we'll hit scum...absolutely. But there's a 7/9 chances of hitting a townie that would otherwise be alive to soak up the night-kill that night. And the night-kill gives just as much information if not more than the lynch in that scenario, because then the 1-2 power-roles will have time to do their work. Speaking of power-roles, with no clear lynch candidate there's a 1-2/9 chance of hitting one of THEM as well with a lynch on d1.

The fact that it's an option at all means that there's a reason it's in the game. It's not just an option to give you something to suspect people with.


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Soar on wings of retribution and set the world ablaze
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Post Post #72 (ISO) » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:42 pm

Post by VisceraEyes »

Lady Lambdadelta wrote:
Spoiler: nested quote
VisceraEyes wrote:
jilynne1991 wrote:It's not scummy to ask question, but you the reactions like the OMGUS is more likely to lead to a scumslip than asking questions.

Anyways, as for a personal preference, I do like RQS more, don't ask me why, I don't know, I just know I like it better.

1) You're not going to find me voting "No Lynch" unless we're at MYLO. I don't understand why you would no lynch on the first day. Any information is helpful.
You just made you're way to being the first person on my scum list.


2) I'm going to agree with your logic on this one, simply because you'll never find me lurking as mafia. I may very well be inactive as town, because quite honestly, it's as boring as he--.

3) If you got a prod, or I've see you online at least 3x without posting, I'm voting you.


So because you disagree with me, I must be scum. Delightful, I'm sure we're going to get along just fine. /wrist

No, the reason I feel No Lynch is viable in that scenario is because lynching someone based on no scummy behavior gives no information. All it does is diminish town's number by one...and then another at night. If there's no clear candidate, then there's no information to be had from the flip. Sure, there's a 2/9 chance that we'll hit scum...absolutely. But there's a 7/9 chances of hitting a townie that would otherwise be alive to soak up the night-kill that night. And the night-kill gives just as much information if not more than the lynch in that scenario, because then the 1-2 power-roles will have time to do their work. Speaking of power-roles, with no clear lynch candidate there's a 1-2/9 chance of hitting one of THEM as well with a lynch on d1.

The fact that it's an option at all means that there's a reason it's in the game. It's not just an option to give you something to suspect people with.


What is this shit?


What shit are you referring to?
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As Town: 4-4
As Mafia: 5-0
Total Games Completed: 13


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Post Post #73 (ISO) » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:49 pm

Post by Lady Lambdadelta »

"YOU THINK I'M SCUM BECAUSE I DISAGREE WITH YOU WAA WAA"

No. She thought you were scum because you wanted to NL Day 1.

There is LEGITIMATE reason to suspect you as scum for that, and your reaction to her calling you scum was BAD.

How do you defend your NL proposition?

How do you justify your reaction?
Yes my Lord, but questions are dangerous, for they have answers.

13 heads and counting now, plurality is adaptive. If our experience might help you,
click here
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If you wish to
speak to one of us
, we are Niamh, Rhiannon, Rhea, Aisling, Saoirse, Selene, Aoife, Fírinne, Aurélie, Lyra, Airna, Fiadh and Laoise.
Soar on wings of retribution and set the world ablaze
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Post Post #74 (ISO) » Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:04 pm

Post by VisceraEyes »

First of all, I do NOT propose we no lynch. Not at all. I gave a very specific circumstance in which I would agree to a no lynch, and claimed that there probably exist others that I haven't thought of. I never said we should no lynch d1. I never said I LIKE to no lynch day 1. I said that if there's no clear lynch candidate d1 (which apparently isn't the case in this game because everyone and their mom thinks I'M scummy...whoopidydoo), I would CONSIDER no lynch as a viable option. At no point was I proposing we do it today.

As far as my reaction, I reacted under the impression that she understood what I just stated above. And understanding that, the fact that I was on her scum-list meant that she disagreed with me, therefor I'm scum. It's possible that she, like you, thought I was proposing it. That just wasn't the case at all. I was just asking questions. Which, by the way, would you care to answer the questions? You're a different player than Jily, so technically you haven't responded to them.
Show
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Cataracts close the blinds
Let me let comfort come drown by your side.

As Town: 4-4
As Mafia: 5-0
Total Games Completed: 13


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