Mini 1211: Murder in Sicily [Over]

[Bub Bidderskins]

Vote count 1.2

(4) Whiskers: Friend, Substrike22, monk, LTP Mafia [L-3]

(1) bobsnox: iamausername [L-6]

(1) monk: Noramp [L-6]

(7) Not Voting: Panacea, crappy, Scumhunter, bobsnox, Whiskers, MusicNinja, Tovarish

With

13

alive it will take

7

to lynch

[Whiskers]

I think this is the game where I said that I would simply NOT try to defend myself anymore.
I stand by that-- come at me bro. If you have a good case, make it. I still think my Daykill freakout was not wholly unjustified.

And I like the reads imusername has given to the wagon on me. Perhaps this whole thing will be more useful that I'd hoped.

[MusicNinja]

I think this is the game where I said that I would simply NOT try to defend myself anymore.
I stand by that-- come at me bro. If you have a good case, make it. I still think my Daykill freakout was not wholly unjustified.

And I like the reads imusername has given to the wagon on me. Perhaps this whole thing will be more useful that I'd hoped.

You cannot simply not defend yourself. IF you are town, we need you too survive. Not defending yourself is pretty much admitting you're scum. Almost positive you're mafia now.

[iamausername]

You cannot simply not defend yourself. IF you are town, we need you too survive. Not defending yourself is pretty much admitting you're scum. Almost positive you're mafia now.

Wow, not a single one of these statements is true.

Except maybe the last one, I guess.

[Substrike22]

So far, Whiskers seems the most scummy to me. However, I do NOT like the bandwaggon that is starting to form on him. It's way too early in the day to lynch somebody. We need to give him a good chance to defend himself. Hasty votes lead to loses. We also need to decide what we should do IF we lynch Whiskers and he flips town. Who is the next suspect? What if he flips scum? Who do we think his parters are? As scummy as he seems, we should not hammer whiskers yet. There is still much work to be done today as far as scum hunting.

Setting up chain lynches isn't a great strategy either, if that's what you're implying. I don't like statements clearing someone if someone flips a certain way, leads to problems in terms of scum picking NK's.

That being said, suspect discussion is quintessential to town play.

Also, Whiskers, you never answered my legitimate question the on the other page...

The first doesn't serve any purpose, the second would be harmful to town and I won't do it anyway, But If I do something so obviously scum-telling as that, I would not resist a lynch. I'd hang my head and cry.

@ Whiskers, yes or no to what I quote there? If you don't know what I'm talking about the answer is probably no. Just trying to see if I'm reading part of that quote correctly.

[bobsnox]

Didn't have internet for most of today. I am going to make good on my promise now though.

[bobsnox]

52+ hours in which he has made 23 posts onsite outside of this game, too. I guess he forgot about us again.

Nope just wanted to make sure my next post in this game was worthwhile. ISOing everyone right now

[bobsnox]

Friend

- leaning town

I don't have much to say other than I like his style. Seems genuine and focused.

iamausername

- leaning town

Seems to be putting genuine effort into this game.

LTP Mafia

- null

I need to see more than his one content post. Voting Whiskers because Whiskers stands out is either scummy or a VT who doesn't care a ton. Maybe that's his play style.

monk

- leaning town

I rarely see scum call someone else out for not scumhunting. Usually they find something else to harp on.

MusicNinja

- leaning town

Seems levelheaded, tries to consider all angles with regards to Whiskers.

Noramp

- leaning scum

Feels disingenuous with all those questions. Could just be his playing style, but that stuff always pings my scumdar. He doesn't seem to touch on the Whiskers stuff other than saying he doesn't like the speed of the wagon. But what about the play of Whiskers? Possible buddy or possible scum trying to avoid what he knows to be a mislynch? Not sure, but his monk vote doesn't sit right with me in context.

Panacea

- null

Can't tell if she's genuine or not. Honestly, I have a hard time reading female players. Some of her analysis is good but I agree that her reluctance to vote is odd.

scumhunter

- null

where is he? I know it's hypocritical but really... he has tried less than I have, which is saying something. null until he says something

substrike22

- town

he's just obvtown. scum don't call that kind of attention to themselves, and I don't get any scumvibes from his posts.

tovarish

- leaning town

I don't like his unvote on Whiskers, but 118 seems genuine.

Whiskers

- leaning scum

I agree with the scumreads people are getting on her, but the fact that she is trying keeps her on the leaning side instead of obvscum. Not a protown attitude generally speaking. Good that she recognizes the scumminess of only defending herself and not scumhunting. Analysis seems forced though.

Summary

: Not sure if Whiskers is the best place for my vote yet. If the deadline were soon I would vote her, but I need to look at her wagon more closely. Leaning scum on Noramp.

[monk]

Cool, more stuff happening, also nice ISOs there whiskers, a bit more IIoA than I like but it's enough for me atm. You're squirming in the right way for me to think you're town
UNVOTE:

Um, noramp what?

Bobsnox from what you've said you are lumping noramp as scum partly because of his vote on me and partly because of a seeming connection to whiskers. I don't like this, though is this more or less a summation of the two people you've labeled as scum? At the moment I'm thinking it's more likely that the scum would be in your null or stronger town reads.

[Whiskers]

I don't like it either: only I and the only player who hasn't loudly attacked me are scum, on his list.

Although, I have to applaud him: He's playing the game now! What a big improvement!

[Tovarish]

IAM- in what way was Whiskers' "last post" (not sure if you meant 120 or 113, and I apologize for the delay) more indicative of him being Town.

Also, could I bother you to make more salient your defense of Whiskers.

[Scumhunter]

I think Whiskers is a bad lynch today. The case on her is overblown. Whiskers is an odd cookie, but that doesn't make her scum. She's clearly trying hard this game and standing out which is essentially why the wagon is forming. The case essentially is "Whiskers posts a lot and is annoying". Both of things could be true, but neither is indicative of whether Whiskers is likely to be scum (In my opinion quite a bit less so than your average player).

Plus when one person has like 25% of the posts on d1 in an inactive game (yes, I know I'm a culprit of inactivity) it generally doesn't make much sense to lynch them today. If Whiskers is actually scum, we will have plenty of time to pin him on it as the game progresses with his level of activity.

Tovarish, if you don't like the wagon on Whiskers what wagon(s) would you like?

Friend if you think someone on the Whiskers wagon is scum...that implies you think Scum are bussing? Why do you find this a likely bussing scenario? Your vote seems firmly placed at the head of a wagon headed for a mislynch most likely and that makes me go -________-.

I think Panacea is town. I had initially had thought she was scum but have since changed my mind.

Town reads: Whiskers, Tovarish, Panacea, Noramp
Lean-town: iamausername, Monk
Null: Substrike22, LTP mafia (vote on whiskers and explanation is very bad, however I think mafia would be a bit more self-aware tbh), crappy (0 posts whatsoever)
Slight Lean Scum: Friend
Lean-scum: MusicNinja, bobsnox

[Scumhunter]

unvote, vote: bobsnox

Not a fan of his latest reads.

I'd also support a vote on MusicNinja potentially, but prefer Bob at this time.

LTP and crappy have contributed nothing. I wouldn't be completely opposed to lynching one of them either.

[Scumhunter]

Eh, just because I don't agree with Bob's reads or the logic behind them doesn't neccesarily make him scum. MusicNinja's trying to think ahead on lynches there reeks of scum to be honest. Townies are taking the game 1 lynch at a time particularly on day 1, while only scum are already having to really think ahead about night kills and future lynches.

unvote, vote MusicNinja

MusicNInja or Friend would be my top two choices for today. Giving Bob a slight pass for now.

[Friend]

Friend if you think someone on the Whiskers wagon is scum...that implies you think Scum are bussing? Why do you find this a likely bussing scenario? Your vote seems firmly placed at the head of a wagon headed for a mislynch most likely and that makes me go -________-.

Yeah, I think that this is a highly likely bussing scenario. Whiskers played pretty badly at the beginning of the game and attacking his actions are a perfect way for scumbuddies to distance themselves from one another.

What worries me, Scumhunter, is that you say this:

Eh, just because I don't agree with Bob's reads or the logic behind them doesn't neccesarily make him scum.

But according to the above quote there, you only think I'm scum because I'm leading Whiskers' wagon towards what YOU think is going to be a mislynch. Why the double standard?

[Noramp]

monk you have done nothing but vote people so far.

your first vote was because panacea didnt vote someone while others weren't voting and your second was because whiskers wasn't scumhunting which you also weren't doing. Your vote on whiskers just seems very opportunistic.

[Scumhunter]

Friend, why do you think one of the people voting Whiskers is scum (and that Whiskers is also scum)? That is what gives me willy-nillies.

Also the reason I suspect you is not just because I disagree with your vote. I don't feel like you

actually

think Whiskers is scum as much as its the easiest target today. Have a hard time putting myself in your shoes with a town perspective. You are active, but talking in generalities like (one of the people on this wagon is scum), but you really haven't expounded the case as to why Whiskers is for sure scum and why those of us not voting Whiskers should lend you your vote. Basically doesn't seem to me like your position on the Whiskers wagon is as much a vote for a strong scumread as much as for convenience.

It's "convenient" to point out little inconsistencies in people's behavior (like you did with me just now) but you don't seem too interested in actually taking it to the next step and thinking about what it means about people's alignments

If you very strongly think Whiskers is scum, try to convince me to vote with you, ya? Doesn't seem like you are interested in doing that to me though. Not necessarily trying to be antagonistic here, just trying to understand how your thought process is working here a bit more.

[Scumhunter]

How did Whiskers "play badly"?

[iamausername]

OK, I think it's time to stop being obtuse.

Here is a recent experience I have had involving dayviging. This was just the threat of an early daykill, rather than a (fake) submitted kill, but still, I think the situations are comparable.

Guess what alignment the people going "what the fuck! what are you thinking!" etc. are? I'll give you a clue; it's not scum. Scum are the ones who weren't sure how to react, and so kept on posting normally as if nothing had happened. Which, in this game, would be equivalent to not posting at all, because the game hadn't officially started.

Whiskers' pregame behaviour is entirely consistent with someone who is used to playing on a site where people actually would make daykills on the first page for the lulz, and I know these sites exist. His behaviour is not consistent with someone trying to score town points by affecting outrage at a premature kill on a possible townie.

In particular, this:

Because of I'm upset about Substrike22's softclaim?

reads strongly as a town reaction to me. I think scum faking the outrage would focus entirely on shouting "that could be a townie you just killed!" and not even consider any other possible downsides to the town, because that's where the 'reward' would come; the townflip of poor dead daykilled Scumhunter, vindicating Whiskers and showing his fake outrage to be 'justified'.

Post #102 is the further posting that has me convinced that Whiskers is town - specifically, his responses to my unexplained town read on him, which are clearly paranoid about my motives.

If you call scum town, and don't explain why, they tend not to question it. They're just happy to have fooled someone. If you call town town, and don't explain why, especially when everybody else is calling them scum, they tend to think "What makes this guy different? Does he know something the others don't?" and they'll probably suspect that you are scum looking for town cred by defending them without actually stopping their lynch.

[iamausername]

bobsnox continues to be scum. He has paraded an astounding litany of excuses and apologies for not posting, considering how young the game is. Unlike Whiskers, his self-flagellating is actually overblown and artificial.

Speaking of artificial, take a closer look at bob's reads. In an obvious display of attempting to placate his attackers in the hopes of persuading them away, he calls me town for "putting genuine effort into this game". If all you had to do to find scum was lynch the people not putting in effort, I think town winrates would be a lot higher than they are. But, more to the point, if bob thinks putting effort in is a town tell, how does he end up with Whiskers as one of his only two scumpicks?

He also says Panacea is null because "her reluctance to vote is odd" and yet makes no vote himself. He dislikes Tovarish unvoting Whiskers because the wagon is building too quick, but then MusicNinja being reluctant to vote because the wagon is building too quick makes him town because he "tries to consider all angles with regards to Whiskers."

Hows about we lynch bobsnox, guys?

[Whiskers]

Suits me fine.

[Whiskers]

Sorry, for some reason all my posts today seem to be oneliners.
__[preedit]
I was about to vote bob. I'm not super conf. he's scum, let the feeling I get ferment for a few hours, then I'll vote him. Who I don't like is LTP, but I guess he's a null because he's posted so little? Here's who I really don't like: Musicninja. Yep, enough of this is OMGUS, but we have a lurker starting out his playerslot, then we have a scum read on players who were (at the time) aligned with me-- although I'll admit I'd forgotten that iamusername had declared me town with no explanation at that time (so was technically aligned with me, too). Then the whole bit about Townie-survivability.

Now, I have a few strong reads on who I'm confident about their being town-- Three that I'm strongly confident, including me-- and Musicninja isn't one of them.

Vote: MusicNinja

, so you know where my mind is.

[Scumhunter]

iamausername, i can get behind a bob lynch.

unvote, vote bob

[MusicNinja]

HoS @ Scumhunter. Stop vote jumping. Create a real case and stick with it. Your vote for me made absolutely no sense. Because I didn't want to lynch someone right away? Because I want to have a plan to beat the scum? Seems that you don't want anyone getting in your way....

@wiskers, Care to elaborate on why you voted for me? No case at all? Remember, when you're town, you're doing real investigating and making real cases, but when you're scum, you have to manufacture votes from thin air. Seems like that's what you just did, unless you can make an ACTUAL case against me, other than the fact that I suspected you, so you automatically don't like me.

[MusicNinja]

Also, I could support a bob lynch today, but not yet. We need more evidence. Always good to start the game off with a scum lynch.