~~Mini 1216: S.M.H. (A.S.N.P.T.) Mafia GAME OVER!!! WOOO~~

[Captain Haoala]

haoala here.

Hellhound, do you know why I voted you? If you can explain satisfactorily why I voted you for using random.org, I might be inclined to unvote.

[Hellhound1]

Haoala, im not bothered about you voting me for using random.org, it was sleuth voting me.

He sheeped you, and if he has no experience playing mafia, then he knows nothing about using random.org in mafiascum, in which case he's only buddying you, which IMO is scummy.

[Captain Haoala]

I want to know what you know. You've only got one completed game on this site.

[Captain Haoala]

But sure I can wait for Sleuth's reply, I'm curious too.

[Hellhound1]

I want to know what you know.

Eh? Game wise, the same as any other town player.

Random.org wise, well i could be saying im using random.org but im not? Scum obviously know who is and isnt town. Theres hundreds of possibilites as to why YOU think its scummy. Im not a mindreader and dont plan to become one anytime soon, so err.. Ill stick to using a genuinely random vote during a random voting stage.

[Captain Haoala]

Ill stick to using a genuinely random vote during a random voting stage.

My vote stays on you. I'll see what Sleuth has to say.

[Hellhound1]

I see someone isnt into random numbers.

[Captain Haoala]

Ohaiguise
Captain Corporal here, back from an unexpected absence. My modem died or something, so I couldn't access the internet (we borrowed a modem until we can get a new one).

Off topic for a second, may I say that I'm looking forward to playing, no-one here seems mentally unstable, like in the recent games I've played. That's a good thing.

Now, onto reads.
I don't really have any. I don't agree with Haoala's view on Hellhound, as I don't think random.org spells scum, but since I've never been scum on Mafiascum, I'm going to go with what he thinks is best.
A couple of people jumped on two wagons on the last page with no justification whatsoever - this isn't good. If there's one thing that gets a scumread from me, it's sheeping. (Sorry I'm on a mobile device and it seems to die while flipping through pages. Plus it's quarter past midnight.)
Tomorrow I should have some better reads up and some more posts too.

[teamsleep]

This is the first time I've seen anyone imply random.org was a scumtell.

[ALinebacker]

Where to start.

Killer is obvscum because, well, anyone who doesn't know how this site works must be, right?

I am very much enjoying the alien's chatter. They're funny.

d_j, yes, innuendo is all part of the game,

if you know what I mean...

@Mod:

Are you honestly telling me that you can't figure out who I mean when I type "vote: lurkonics"? Are you going to be tiring and require that all playernames be perfectly spelled properly and correctly? Because if so, I will make damn sure that you don't count ANY votes that aren't perfectly spelled and punctuated. Work with me, here

if you know what I mean....

That said, my vote stays, if the Mod will deign to actually COUNT IT THIS TIME.

[ALinebacker]

This is the first time I've seen anyone imply random.org was a scumtell.

You're new here, aren't you?

[Sleuth]

I wasn't sheeping - I think using Random.org is scummy. It's not ALWAYS scummy, but scum go to it naturally, IMO.

[Hellhound1]

Naturally, random numbers are the most scummiest of numbers. I mean, if i were to use, for example, www.psychicscience.org/random.aspx, that wouldnt be scummy at all. After all, you're implying visiting the site and using the generator is scummy.

Still, care to link to other games where the use of random.org has been proven to be scummy?

[don_johnson]

this type of thing could require evidence. though i agree in theory that random voting is a difficult endeavour for scum, i am not sure if "random.org" has ever been used by scum in my experience. i see no issue with the argument other than if it is being used fallaciously, i.e. "i have seen random.org used by scum," ok, provide evidence, "uh, well i don't have any...". in other news,

2birds: are you implying that you were wary of ansering the question for fear that

someone else

might fall into a trap?

[teamsleep]

this type of thing could require evidence. though i agree in theory that random voting is a difficult endeavour for scum, i am not sure if "random.org" has ever been used by scum in my experience. i see no issue with the argument other than if it is being used fallaciously, i.e. "i have seen random.org used by scum," ok, provide evidence, "uh, well i don't have any...". in other news,

Well, one time I was playing mafia and the scum was using google, so google is scummy, true story!

I wasn't sheeping - I think using Random.org is scummy. It's not ALWAYS scummy, but scum go to it naturally, IMO.

Curious, do you have any personal experiences to games where scum was using Random.org? Or a link to any game in general with scum using the website.

This is the first time I've seen anyone imply random.org was a scumtell.

You're new here, aren't you?

I know mods are told to use it when distributing roles, for one.

I feel like this whole "random.org = scum" case is horribly forced and nitpicky, but that's just me.

[Sleuth]

Still, care to link to other games where the use of random.org has been proven to be scummy?

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=17529

[teamsleep]

He asked for other game

s

. Plural. More than one.

This whole random.org=scum idea sounds arbitrary to me. I'm willing to bet that town/anti-town roles that use that website are at a 50/50 split of usage. That and random.org sounds theoretically better in RVS than "lol i vote ___ bc silly reason!", provided it is supplemented by any way to start a discussion, which in this case kinda was, if you think about it

[2birds1stone]

2birds: are you implying that you were wary of ansering the question for fear that someone else might fall into a trap?

Um, no actually, I'm not implying that. The strawman trap I suggested earlier could have applied to my answer just as easily as any other answer.

[killerX029]

UNVOTE: 2Birds
VOTE: Sleuth
Your way too silent on forum, could be a sign that your a mafia trying to keep a low profile or a normal townie.

[Captain Haoala]

haoala here.

The logic regarding random.org is simple, really. Scum want to leave as few tracks as possible. By using any RNG, they separate themselves from their vote and take no responsibility for it. As a result, they leave no track so they cannot be incriminated. In using an RNG, their vote contributes nothing to the RVS, which is to start discussion and possibly catch scum.

Oh, the irony.

[Captain Haoala]

Noticed that JAMFTW has not been here for quite sometime, even though he is quite active in another game. Benmage too.

Come back, people. Otherwise.

[Sleuth]

69 is right on.

[JAMFTW]

Otherwise, what? Last I checked, there hadn't been too much more in the way of action. There has now.

Also, and this will be more than a little of the pot calling the kettle black here:

Sleuth, add more to the discussion. My vote was on you initially because you hadn't talked at all. And my confidence in you as a possible scum to lynch has increased since then. Your contributions thus far have been...lacking. My vote is staying where it is until a better target rears its ugly head.

As far as this whole "RNG IS TEH BAD!" vs "NUH UH!" debate goes. It's silly. And pointless. I was witness to this just awful game over on Myth-Weavers where a good many pages had devolved into some type of "statistics as the best way to hunt scum" debate that was mind-numbingly painful. Not to mention the guy espousing the view that randomly picking targets was a good way to hunt wound up as scum (at least, I'm pretty sure that's how it shook out). So any discussion that closely resembles that (in this case, the whole RNG thing) makes me wary. And anyone that argues too hard for RNG as a good way to scum hunt is immediately scummy in my eyes (can't help it. gut reaction).

Having said that, this conversation hasn't gotten that far. It's only in reference to the initial vote, so not nearly as bad.

Haola has a good point as to why it would be scummy, but overall I think if scum is paranoid about being found out due to their initial vote, they would just refrain from voting until more substance showed up (though I don't feel that this is a die-hard, be-all/end-all way to hunt scum. Just an idea).

[Lurconis]

Since I haven't piped in on the random.org situation yet.

On the subject of Random.org I have no opinion, it doesn't seem particularly scummy to me but maybe I haven't been around long enough.

As far as my killer vote goes, it stays. I thought his essentially posting I agree and adding a vote was suspicious but then his asking to have another vote removed from him does show paranoia as others have said. Then he votes sleuth who he says is either mafia or a normal townie. I would hope we were just voting for people we thought were mafia, not people we thought were mafia or townies.

[Captain Haoala]

Then he votes sleuth who he says is either mafia or a normal townie. I would hope we were just voting for people we thought were mafia, not people we thought were mafia or townies.

Yes, that caught my eye too. Furthermore, why does silence = normal townie?