Mini 1219 - Bedtime Stories Mafia - Game Over!

[Rainbowdash]

Well you need to watch more MLP:FiM then. That is fan named Derpy Hooves which orginiated from animation error with the eyes all screwed up like that. Now that character is included with eyes like that as an animaitors joke quite often.

Doesn't change the fact that you are probably wrong about this. He actually isn't saying that Neruz is obviously town or anything, I think im actually pushing my town reads harder than Thomith is pushing his. If you look at what he has said;

Tbh i don't find Neruz scummy for not voting me, it seems like a town instinct to not vote if there is only one or two scumpoints on them but to rather wait untill someone with major scum points pops up.

sure but i'm not going to believe Neruz is scum for this, as i don't see the reason why Neruz is getting bandwagoned for this reason.

Well of course i am trying to convince them not to because i don't agree with the reasoning. How is this scummy again?

This is somepony who thinks that Neruz is being attacked for BS reasoning, not somepony who thinks that Neruz is obviously town. Why are you so into what he is doing here while you really seem to take little issue with me already calling Thomith and EB town? This Thomith wagon if its really based primarily on the above post chain just makes no sense, especially since it ignores some things that actually can be construed as scum tells yet ponies ignore them for something like this just screws around with my reads since there are some tells there but no one pays attention which I would normally think exaggerates them, yet I really can't believe this is a mostly/all town wagon that lucked onto a scum lynch which is what it would need to be so...

Thomith is a bit of a town read still, this whole attack on him is harping on an at best null tell.

[Neruz]

@Neruz - Explain how the exchange between Thomith and VM cannot come from town v town

I cannot, such absolutes do not exist in Mafia.

Fine. Explain why the exchange between Thomith and VM "probably" cannot come from town v town.

Being snide will get you nowhere.

Because i cannot imagine a town mindset that would result in an escalating shouting match to that degree. The kind of fear that leads one to attempt to back-justify like that does not come from town, in my experience.

Third party talk from Neruz bugs me a bit since I could nearly guarentee you that there is no third party in this game and its a great scum scare tactic to throw that in.

GreyICE advertised this game specifically as being the first normal game to be approved with three cult leaders. I have no idea if he was serious or just dicking around though.

Unless I fail to understand the definiton of normal, cults are not normal, and cannot exist in a normal game. I still can basically give you that "absolute" that there is no cult. Stop trying to spread paranoia.

Take it up with GreyICE, not me. I'd quote the PM he sent me (and presumably others), but i think that technically violates Rule 1. Regardless, GreyICE explicitly stated there were three cult recruiters in this game, that it had been rejected over 11 times by Vi and Hoopla, called a travesty to the concept of balance and fair play and winner of the most explicitly non-normal role submissions that will be explicitly blacklisted on the wiki as soon as the reviewers find their jaws.

How much of that is true i have no idea, but given this is GreyICE we're dealing with i'm going to assume it's all true unless i get some compelling evidence to the contrary.

[hiphop]

Well you need to watch more MLP:FiM then. That is fan named Derpy Hooves which orginiated from animation error with the eyes all screwed up like that. Now that character is included with eyes like that as an animaitors joke quite often.

I knew was forgetting something I was supposed to watch.

Why are you so into what he is doing here while you really seem to take little issue with me already calling

Thomith

and EB

town?

Quote where you said bolded, then tell me you are flailing(facepalm if you would like), and then I would like to know why. I'll get to the middle of your posts later, while you dig for the above.

[Rainbowdash]

@Neruz - Games need to be approved. Three cult recruiters would not be approved, especially since I don't think that can even balance with just 13 ponies playing.

@hiphop

Going to say Thomith and EB are probably town at this point.

There is your quote

I already explained Thomith last post, EB is town for his post against VM and that he also is defending Thomith against crap attacks.

Give me something harder to answer.

[hiphop]

Tbh i don't find Neruz scummy for not voting me, it seems like a town instinct to not vote if there is only one or two scumpoints on them but to rather wait untill someone with major scum points pops up.

So town should vote someone who they don't have many points on. K.

Again i will say, i don't think Neruz is scum because they didn't vote for me, Town usually want to find more than one reason to vote someone so i don't see how this is scummy.

Town don't usually vote for no reasoning apart from in RVS, why would town vote for someone who they can't prove are scum? Wouldn't town want to find evidence before actually voting?

There are your fixed quotes. I hate it when people iso someone instead of actually reading what the posts pertain too, which is exactly what you did Rainbow. Obviously he is attempting to state that Neruz is town when there is little to go on, which results with him scum defending a townie. Even you state to Thomith.

Town usually will vote for somepony with little to no reasoning. What type of poines have you been playing with?

And, the fact that you now flip your view is disturbing. There is no reason as to why Thomith defended Neruz, if he wasn't scum, and didn't know his alignment.
And here you say

When Thomith is making very few attempts to push action elsewhere in the game, attempts to detract from the other existing wagon, even in early game, is something to look at.

Which should show you that Thomith is more likely scum, not knowing where to look to find other scum. But apparently not. And then there is this

Thomith is a bit of a town read still, this whole attack on him is harping on an at best null tell.

Calling Thomith town because 4 people are pushing for his lynch, really? First, ever heard of bussing, A.k.a Voided. Second, there are more townies then scum(more than 4 townies), or does your role state otherwise? I really do not see how you cannot label Thomith as scum.

[hiphop]

Example 1--->My very first game as scum. I defended a townie day 1, for the simple fact that a bandwagon was put on him for the sake of bandwagoning. Absolutely no case. The bandwagon was started by Hoopla for the very sake of catching scum attacking it. I was lynched day 1.
Example 2--->GreyICE(the lone scum) defended me, when every single townie left voted me and I was lynched.
Example 3--->Every single townie said that Thomas was scum at one point, but not Thomith(scum). He fought against the lynch until Thomas was lynched.

[Neruz]

@Neruz - Games need to be approved. Three cult recruiters would not be approved, especially since I don't think that can even balance with just 13 ponies playing.

Plenty of shit has gotten through the approval process before; it's highly subjective. You can say all you like about balance and approval processes, but until i see definitive proof that GreyICE's PM is outright lies, i am going to operate under the assumption that it is not, purely because it's far too dangerous to assume it is lies if it turns out to be truths.

[Neruz]

I'll also be a little miffed if it does turn out to be outright lies since that PM was basically why i /inned to this game.

[hiphop]

Neruz, the whole pm thing was a joke, get over it.

[Neruz]

*Sadfase*

[Thomith]

when people ought to see it by now.

Ought to see you metaing me for a case? This is your case on me which you can not deny, when i flip town you will look very bad for leading a lynch on me for meta.

So basically hiphop you are using meta against me? You expect to catch scum from meta? Come on hiphop i know you can play better than that.

Again i will say because you obviously can not get it into your skull I am against the Neruz wagon because there is crap logic reasoning behind it.

Bullet has a point about voided, what were your reasons for voting me? Any reasons other than the already stated?


@ most people on my wagon, you are looking at all my actions from a scum perspective, now can you honestly say that there is no way there can not be a town motivation behind them? also weird i have never posted my reads, where did you get those reads from?

[hiphop]

A scumtell is a scumtell.

[hiphop]

@ most people on my wagon, you are looking at all my actions from a scum perspective, now can you honestly say that there is no way there can not be a town motivation behind them?

There is no town motivation behind your posts.

[Thomith]

Hiphop you are using meta ONLY. While i agree that meta can be used to see scumtells for a specific player it is never enough to form a case on them.
I don't believe the wagon is town motivated, however i don't think people like hiphop are the scum on it, hiphop of course isn't a town read of mine he is null but i think the wagon is scum motivated by the sheep following it for no reasons of their own. For this reason
UNVOTE: VOTE: Voided

P-edit- so there is no possible way that i could be defending against a towntell of mine from a wagon that i don't agree with. Ok hiphop whatever you say.

[Thomith]

Also about what someone said earlier that i cannot get a towntell this early i just feel Neruz' posts are town, i don't know why but after reading them the majority seem towny, and i defended against the wagon because i didn't agree with the reasons.

[Neruz]

I don't know about anyone else, but i don't think i've ever said that there is no way your overreaction could be town motivated. I can't

see

a way it could be, but that doesn't mean a way doesn't exist. I'm not omniscient after all.

[hiphop]

i defended against the wagon because i didn't agree with the reasons.

When have you ever seen a strong case on D1? While you look I will get some popcorn, because it will be awhile.

I am dreading time when Parama arrives. Most likely he will make a huge wall, about nearly every single post, completely not making any sense. And I will ask for a tr:dr version, in which he will respond with another wall bigger than the first. Hopefully the above doesn't happen.

[hiphop]

i think the wagon is scum motivated by the

sheep following it for no reasons of their own

. For this reason
UNVOTE: VOTE: Voided

Thank you for providing another reason as to why you are scum(the bolded). And bussing noted.

[Voidedmafia]

Hmm, must've gotten names wrong.

I actually have original points against Neruz, not Thomith, sorry. So, you'd be right in that I'd be sheepvoting...IF I only used other's reasoning and didn't build off it iwith my own, which I clearly didn't do when I voted you. So, your reason for voting me is baseless until you can think of something better.

[deselby]

I still don't think neruz or thomith has explained why he voted for someone else when he had a scummier option.


Rainbow- why are you so certain of the absence of third parties?
Also, are you very attached to using “pony” in place of “person”? It makes the posts slightly less pleasant to read.IMO.

I'm going to answer Thomith's question to Bvoigt for him, as we already discussed this and agree. These are the four motivations you may have for defending Thomith:
1. You are scum defending a townie so that if he flips town, you get townpoints.
2. You are scum defending a buddy, this is less likely due to the obviousness of the defense.
3. You are scum defending a townie trying to fake a reaction, but overdid it.
4. You are town defending someone you legitimately think is town.

Those are the four possible motivations I can think of.

As you can see that's a pretty good chance that you are scum.

This is poor logic, no? Without assigning some kind of probabilities to the listed options, your conclusion is invalid. Having said that:

This seems like a blatant use of my scumplay in newbie 1126 by buddying to thomas. As scum i buddy not defend. Just saying.

I don't like this post. Especially as since then you have taken issue with hiphop using meta.

unvote
vote thomith L-2

[Thomith]

Hmm, must've gotten names wrong.

I actually have original points against Neruz, not Thomith, sorry. So, you'd be right in that I'd be sheepvoting...IF I only used other's reasoning and didn't build off it iwith my own, which I clearly didn't do when I voted you. So, your reason for voting me is baseless until you can think of something better.

Do YOU think i'm scum, if so why?

[Thomith]

How can i defend against meta other than using meta? There is no other way i can see, if i say "you are scum because of (meta reason)" you cannot defend yourself with play in THIS game because you are being labelled scum for annother different game.

It seems like a high possibility that i will get lynched today so i am going to say that hiphop shouldn't be the lynch for tommurrow, if his play still uses meta tommurrow then lynch him but hopefully after my flip he will rethink his scumhunting tactics. You should instead look for people who jump on my wagon for little reason of their own, this could show scum that just want a mislynch so they can start killing.

[Neruz]

I still don't think neruz or thomith has explained why he voted for someone else when he had a scummier option.

I have. It appears that not everyone was willing to accept my explanation, but its there. The simple reality is it was two dozen posts into the game in RVS before everyone had checked in yet and one player reacted in a mildly scummy way to some pressure imposed by another player. I wasn't gunning for a lynch and there was no need to apply more pressure on Thomith because ample pressure was already being applied.

I'm not sure why these basic concepts seem so hard for some people to grasp, but apparently they are.

[deselby]

I still don't think neruz or thomith has explained why he voted for someone else when he had a scummier option.

I have. It appears that not everyone was willing to accept my explanation, but its there. The simple reality is it was two dozen posts into the game in RVS before everyone had checked in yet and one player reacted in a mildly scummy way to some pressure imposed by another player. I wasn't gunning for a lynch and there was no need to apply more pressure on Thomith because ample pressure was already being applied.

I'm not sure why these basic concepts seem so hard for some people to grasp, but apparently they are.

Fair enough, but you didn't actually explain it that way in the post you quote here.

How can i defend against meta other than using meta? There is no other way i can see, if i say "you are scum because of (meta reason)" you cannot defend yourself with play in THIS game because you are being labelled scum for annother different game.

You did not use meta to defend against meta. Your "meta" post was before hiphop's "meta" post.

[Thomith]

he was blatantly using newbie 1126 against me before then, this is why i made that post.