Newbie 1149 Game Over

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 1.03

ZeekLTK - 2 - Slandaar, themountainclimber
bv310 - 1 - ZeekLTK
Slandaar - 1 - plenty
vilfa_cola - 1 - Thomas

Not Voting: vilfa_cola, Stiaan, bv310, Ythan

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2011-09-07 15:50:25)

[Ythan]

VOTE: bv310

Those questions are just clogging up the thread with useless info.

As opposed to what was going on before?

@Ythan : What do you think of Zeek searching out your opinion on how I have started ?

I don't see how it's so different from what you did in post 35.

It feels like he is a rabbit in headlights desperately looking for help.

I think you're trying to lead my interpretation without waiting for an answer.

If my style has provoked discussion as you say, then why is it antitown ?

If you're scum it's pro-town. If you're town it's anti-town. Regardless it doesn't help your faction.

Why are you thanking someone for 'agreeing' with you?
A mafia thanking a townie makes sense... you are relieved a townie agrees with you and express it with a thank you.
A townie thanking someone who could be mafia? I don't see it, I really don't.

If Zeek = Mafia then Plenty = Town.

What about scum on scum? I don't find this telling of Plenty's alignment.

[Slandaar]

Still not willing to give you opinion on me Zeek ?

Zeek does not like to share his thoughts on people/actions in case the town is not in agreement (he is worried he will view things differently because he is mafia)
This can be seen by the way he asked Ythan 'what he thought about how I have started' without first saying what he thought himself.
It can also be seen by the way he continues to ignore my question.

And as previously said, selectively answering questions suggests he wanted to be seen as compliant with the town but he did not answer the ones which would help the town in anyway.

[Slandaar]

VOTE: bv310

Those questions are just clogging up the thread with useless info.

As opposed to what was going on before?

RVS.

@Ythan : What do you think of Zeek searching out your opinion on how I have started ?

I don't see how it's so different from what you did in post 35.

Difference is, I had stated my opinion on the issue I was asking you about. I saw you were online so thats I asked you to try and get a read on you.

It feels like he is a rabbit in headlights desperately looking for help.

I think you're trying to lead my interpretation without waiting for an answer.

Please view post #41. If you want leading interpretation, its there.

If my style has provoked discussion as you say, then why is it antitown ?

If you're scum it's pro-town. If you're town it's anti-town. Regardless it doesn't help your faction.

I dont believe this, if people want to discuss me thats fine, they can work out im town and move on. Better than the players who are not giving much/any input.

Why are you thanking someone for 'agreeing' with you?
A mafia thanking a townie makes sense... you are relieved a townie agrees with you and express it with a thank you.
A townie thanking someone who could be mafia? I don't see it, I really don't.

If Zeek = Mafia then Plenty = Town.

What about scum on scum? I don't find this telling of Plenty's alignment.

You think Plenty as mafia comes to his mafia buddys aid like that there? seems very unlikely to me.

[plenty]

You're saying that Zeek not answering two of the questions is suspicious, but you haven't answered them yourself. Taken together with how quickly you switched from "the questions are clogging up the thread" to "not answering is suspicious", this looks like the real reason you're voting Zeek is "any excuse to lynch"

What about the other people who have not answered the questions? Slandaar isn't the only person who didn't.

But Slandaar is the only person who criticised the use of questions and then attacked Zeek for not answering all of them.

[Slandaar]

But Slandaar is the only person who criticised the use of questions and then attacked Zeek for not answering all of them.

O RLY ?

VOTE:

vote: bv310

as well. I don't see how those questions will help us catch scum. It just seems like it will help scum avoid detection if anyone actually answered them sincerely - you're basically asking "what are scumtells that you guys look for, so that I can avoid making them?" Nice try!

Yes I 'attacked' Zeek for selectively answering questions, no im not the only one who criticised them.
Zeek clearly criticised them also. But Zeek answered the pointless questions anyway and ignored the ones which may have helped us.

[Ythan]

You sounded as if you were claiming that you intentionally drew attention to yourself to spark discussion.

And I don't see any reason why it must be mafia on town.

[Ythan]

VOTE: Zeek

Not really making any sense right now.

Be specific.

[Thomas]

What is the point of a random vote when you take pains to make it clear how meaningless it is?

All random votes are basically meaningless, my random vote is no different.

Maybe there is a misunderstanding or just difference in definition... to me, RVS means you vote early based on minor things (something small like "I think these questions are designed to help scum more than town") and then progressively the votes get more and more serious. My vote for bv was part of RVS - it wasn't completely random, but as I said, I'm not "certain" he's scum by any stretch either, it's just my best guess at the moment.

No, looking back it looks like you voted for bv310 after Slandaar because you may be scum trying to hide under shadows of other players. So you're not certain enough he's scum but you're certain enough to vote him and risk a mislynch?

Speaking of bv310...

@Mod

Prod bv310 please.

I'm not really sure why Thomas would essentially go backwards though and vote for someone completely at random after a couple of real votes have been cast based on the content of the game so far. There are small reasons to vote for a handful of people (including me, to be completely fair) - why are you ignoring them?

You asked me why I didn't vote for anybody when I stated that I prefer RVS over RQS so to please you I made a random vote. Would it put a smile on your face if I unvote now? I would just like to point out that you still have your 'random vote' on bv310.

But Slandaar is the only person who criticised the use of questions and then attacked Zeek for not answering all of them.

Oh so we shouldn't be scum hunting?

[Nobody Special]

bv310 has been prodded.

[plenty]

Yes I 'attacked' Zeek for selectively answering questions, no im not the only one who criticised them.
Zeek clearly criticised them also. But Zeek answered the pointless questions anyway and ignored the ones which may have helped us.

Sorry, I meant you were the only person who did both.

But Slandaar is the only person who criticised the use of questions and then attacked Zeek for not answering all of them.

Oh so we shouldn't be scum hunting?

I don't know how you came to this conclusion. The reason I am voting to lynch Slandaar is because he said the questions were pointless and criticised Zeek for not answering two of them in under an hour. It does look like he might want everyone to answer the questions but him so he knows what we're looking for but we don't know what he's looking for. The rapid change makes it look like he just wanted to lynch and didn't particularly care who dies, now he's fairly focused on Zeek so I assume he thinks he's onto something.

[Thomas]

I don't know how you came to this conclusion. The reason I am voting to lynch Slandaar is because he said the questions were pointless and criticised Zeek for not answering two of them in under an hour. It does look like he might want everyone to answer the questions but him so he knows what we're looking for but we don't know what he's looking for. The rapid change makes it look like he just wanted to lynch and didn't particularly care who dies, now he's fairly focused on Zeek so I assume he thinks he's onto something.

If you are voting for Slandaar for pointing out the scummy actions of another player then I will conclude that you do not think we should be scum hunting.

[Slandaar]

You sounded as if you were claiming that you intentionally drew attention to yourself to spark discussion.

that is not what i was trying to say, im not sure where you got that idea from.

And I don't see any reason why it must be mafia on town.

It seems way more likely its mafia - > Town than any other scenario. How often do you see townies thanking someone ?

[Slandaar]

Yes I 'attacked' Zeek for selectively answering questions, no im not the only one who criticised them.
Zeek clearly criticised them also. But Zeek answered the pointless questions anyway and ignored the ones which may have helped us.

Sorry, I meant you were the only person who did both.

Zeek is the only one who criticised the questions AND answered them (selectively).
Selectively answering them is scummy IMO, if he had selectively answered the more interesting questions, I would not have thought twice.
He answered the pointless questions and then voted bv for them, it doesn't make sense to me.
Which i find scummy.

But Slandaar is the only person who criticised the use of questions and then attacked Zeek for not answering all of them.

Oh so we shouldn't be scum hunting?

I don't know how you came to this conclusion. The reason I am voting to lynch Slandaar is because he said the questions were pointless and criticised Zeek for not answering two of them in under an hour. It does look like he might want everyone to answer the questions but him so he knows what we're looking for but we don't know what he's looking for. The rapid change makes it look like he just wanted to lynch and didn't particularly care who dies, now he's fairly focused on Zeek so I assume he thinks he's onto something.

I never said not answering ANY of the questions was scummy. So im not sure why you think I want everyone to answer the questions
I dont understand the rapid change... i never called anyone else scummy, only Zeek, why wouldnt I be attacking the player I think is the scummiest?

[plenty]

I don't know how you came to this conclusion. The reason I am voting to lynch Slandaar is because he said the questions were pointless and criticised Zeek for not answering two of them in under an hour. It does look like he might want everyone to answer the questions but him so he knows what we're looking for but we don't know what he's looking for. The rapid change makes it look like he just wanted to lynch and didn't particularly care who dies, now he's fairly focused on Zeek so I assume he thinks he's onto something.

If you are voting for Slandaar for pointing out the scummy actions of another player then I will conclude that you do not think we should be scum hunting.

I am voting for him because I think he was acting scummy. Zeek explained why he didn't answer those two questions at the time and I think that his concerns about answering them were reasonable.

Yes I 'attacked' Zeek for selectively answering questions, no im not the only one who criticised them.
Zeek clearly criticised them also. But Zeek answered the pointless questions anyway and ignored the ones which may have helped us.

Sorry, I meant you were the only person who did both.

Zeek is the only one who criticised the questions AND answered them (selectively).
Selectively answering them is scummy IMO, if he had selectively answered the more interesting questions, I would not have thought twice.
He answered the pointless questions and then voted bv for them, it doesn't make sense to me.
Which i find scummy.

I agree he was acting suspiciously, but I think you were acting more suspiciously.

But Slandaar is the only person who criticised the use of questions and then attacked Zeek for not answering all of them.

Oh so we shouldn't be scum hunting?

I don't know how you came to this conclusion. The reason I am voting to lynch Slandaar is because he said the questions were pointless and criticised Zeek for not answering two of them in under an hour. It does look like he might want everyone to answer the questions but him so he knows what we're looking for but we don't know what he's looking for. The rapid change makes it look like he just wanted to lynch and didn't particularly care who dies, now he's fairly focused on Zeek so I assume he thinks he's onto something.

I never said not answering ANY of the questions was scummy. So im not sure why you think I want everyone to answer the questions
I dont understand the rapid change... i never called anyone else scummy, only Zeek, why wouldnt I be attacking the player I think is the scummiest?

You wanting everyone to answer the questions is speculation on my part.
The rapid change refers to you voting bv then voting Zeek an hour later. As to why you wouldn't be voting the player you think is scummiest either it's you or you're in the mafia and think your partner is scummiest.

[Slandaar]

Yes I 'attacked' Zeek for selectively answering questions, no im not the only one who criticised them.
Zeek clearly criticised them also. But Zeek answered the pointless questions anyway and ignored the ones which may have helped us.

Sorry, I meant you were the only person who did both.

Zeek is the only one who criticised the questions AND answered them (selectively).
Selectively answering them is scummy IMO, if he had selectively answered the more interesting questions, I would not have thought twice.
He answered the pointless questions and then voted bv for them, it doesn't make sense to me.
Which i find scummy.

I agree he was acting suspiciously, but I think you were acting more suspiciously.

Wait, you think I am acting suspiciously for going after a player who was acting suspiciously?

[themountainclimber]

@Zeek Your post 68 answered all the questions that I had, so I'll UNVOTE: Zeek for now.

Mod, I'll have limited access until 8/22.

[plenty]

Yes I 'attacked' Zeek for selectively answering questions, no im not the only one who criticised them.
Zeek clearly criticised them also. But Zeek answered the pointless questions anyway and ignored the ones which may have helped us.

Sorry, I meant you were the only person who did both.

Zeek is the only one who criticised the questions AND answered them (selectively).
Selectively answering them is scummy IMO, if he had selectively answered the more interesting questions, I would not have thought twice.
He answered the pointless questions and then voted bv for them, it doesn't make sense to me.
Which i find scummy.

I agree he was acting suspiciously, but I think you were acting more suspiciously.

Wait, you think I am acting suspiciously for going after a player who was acting suspiciously?

I think that him answering the questions, then voting for bv on the basis of them being asked is suspicious, but you said the questions were bad, selectively answering the questions was bad, you criticised Ythan for not taking a stance, and tried to lead him into criticising Zeek's behaviour. It feels like you're trying to drown out every alternative to your theory about Zeek, rather than rationally disprove them, or prove yours has more weight, which is definitely suspicious.

[Slandaar]

I think that him answering the questions, then voting for bv on the basis of them being asked is suspicious,

OK...

but you said the questions were bad, selectively answering the questions was bad,

yep, I think the questions were pointless, and so did not answer them. Selectively answering them is suspicious to me, if you think the questions are trying to help the mafia, why answer any of them ?

you criticised Ythan for not taking a stance, and tried to lead him into criticising Zeek's behaviour.

His response was very 'well I could see it both ways lets see what happens' once he said the issue was about nothing, I got what i wanted from him and moved on.

It feels like you're trying to drown out every alternative to your theory about Zeek, rather than rationally disprove them, or prove yours has more weight, which is definitely suspicious.

He does not state his opinion before someone else does.
He selectively answered the filler questions
He voted for the person who asked the questions AFTER answering them

His story makes no sense... he is refusing to give anything away that could help us read him, this is my point vs him.
It was my point when he selectively answered the questions, and he has continued to do so, when he asked Ythan his opinion on me before stating his (which was asked in a way that tried to lead Ythan to answer it how Zeek wanted)... he was looking for someones opinion that he could agree with.

he also has refused to answer my questions a couple times now because he does not want to state what he thinks about how I have started.

Give me an alternative to that? Why is not stating his opinion without someone elses backup?

Maybe there is a misunderstanding or just difference in definition... to me, RVS means you vote early based on minor things (something small like "I think these questions are designed to help scum more than town") and then progressively the votes get more and more serious. My vote for bv was part of RVS - it wasn't completely random, but as I said, I'm not "certain" he's scum by any stretch either, it's just my best guess at the moment.

No, looking back it looks like you voted for bv310 after Slandaar because you may be scum trying to hide under shadows of other players. So you're not certain enough he's scum but you're certain enough to vote him and risk a mislynch?

Here is another example of it, he only voted Bv AFTER I had.

[vilfa_cola]

Slandaar clearly you dont like Zeek but he has given many good reasons why he did what he did and even though his reasons seem to be more than likely you still attack him. how can you be so certain that his explanations for what he did are not the true reasons. I mean yes we all get the fact that it was suspisious what he did im not arguing that fact im simply saying that it seems you may be trying to push it further than it can go.

Thomas what exactly did I say that makes you beleive you can't trust me? with everything else that is being said about people being scummy (none of which being about me) why suddenly beleive i am? All Isaid was that bv was just trying to get conversation started and that Zeek seemed like he was scummy and since then I'm not so sure if Zeek is so scummy anymore.
not to say he definitly not but definitly less so then I originally pressumed.

[plenty]

I'm not sure going after Slandaar is a good idea anymore, so I'll UNVOTE: Slandaar, and re-read the thread, to see if I pick up on anything suspicious.

[Thomas]

I am voting for him because I think he was acting scummy. Zeek explained why he didn't answer those two questions at the time and I think that his concerns about answering them were reasonable.

No he's only scum hunting. Zeek's explanation was bullshit saying it will help scum if we answer those questions. Scum probably already know how they can get caught if they read guides on the wiki so it's not a top secret. If Zeek actually thought that answering those questions was a serious concern, he should have at least put as the answer "Won't this give information to scum?" but instead it looks like he made that up on the spot once accused.

I agree he was acting suspiciously, but I think you were acting more suspiciously.

Apparently it's a crime to look for scum.

Thomas what exactly did I say that makes you beleive you can't trust me? with everything else that is being said about people being scummy (none of which being about me) why suddenly beleive i am? All Isaid was that bv was just trying to get conversation started and that Zeek seemed like he was scummy and since then I'm not so sure if Zeek is so scummy anymore.
not to say he definitly not but definitly less so then I originally pressumed.

Calm down. If you re-read all the posts in the thread, I didn't say anywhere that I never trusted you. The vote was a random vote and it's about time to:

Unvote: vilfa_cola

I'm not sure going after Slandaar is a good idea anymore, so I'll UNVOTE: Slandaar, and re-read the thread, to see if I pick up on anything suspicious.

So you don't think it's a 'good idea' or something in his last post made you believe he's town?

[vilfa_cola]

I'm sorry Thomas your right it was Ythan that said he didn't trust me that was my mistake. so allow me to redirect my question.
Ythan what exactly did i say that made you not trust me?

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 1.04

bv310 - 1 - ZeekLTK
ZeekLTK - 1 - Slandaar

Not Voting: vilfa_cola, Stiaan, bv310, Ythan, themountainclimber, plenty, Thomas

V/LA: themountainclimber through August 22

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2011-09-07 15:50:25)

[ZeekLTK]

@Slandaar: The only reason you voted bv before me was because you happened to be logged on when the game actually started and I wasn't. I think I made it pretty clear from my "answers" that I found bv suspicious and I felt that implied that I was going to vote for him immediately. The fact that you beat me to the punch (by simply being online while I wasn't) does not make me scummy.

I'm also not going to waste everyone's time by dragging this game into a pissing match between the two of us by going back and forth with you over the same things over and over. I've already answered all of what you asked previously. Why did I "answer" some questions? I explained that. Why did I vote bv? I explained that. Why did I ask Ythan something? I explained that. I'm not going to continue to repeat myself over and over again and derail this thread into a Zeek vs Slandaar game, especially when there's a chance that we're both townies; I'm pro-town so the way I see our interaction is that there is a 25% chance you are scum pushing for my mislynch or 75% chance that you are a misguided townie who thinks he's "cracked this game" in only 4 pages - unfortunately I'm leaning towards the latter, so if that's the case then we'd just be letting the mafia coast to victory by having such tunnel-vision against each other.

@Thomas: You missed the point of my question - there were already a handful of things going on in the thread, yet you still cast a vote for "no reason"... why were you ignoring everything that was going on? Waiting to see which side would prevail so you didn't pick the wrong one? And then you say you only voted in order to satisfy me because I called you out for not casting a vote... why are you trying to satisfy me? Your play so far seems like scum trying to fit in but doing so awkwardly.

FOS: Thomas

@bv: still waiting on your "top secret" explanation to your questions...