camn's temperamental - Mini 1232 - GAME OVER

[Fishythefish]

I think it's quite likely that scum confirm later on average.

Why the vote?

[BBmolla]

Hello everyone!

I'd like to ask everyone a few questions just to learn a bit about everyone's experience and philosophy. Now this isn't required, but I'd appreciate it and it'll help me read you earlier.

1 -

Experience

- What is your prior experience with Mafia? How many games have you played at Mafiascum? How many games have you played elsewhere?
2 -

Philosophy

- If you were a cop and got a guilty on night one, would you out the guilty that day(not knowing if there is any protection of course) or would you try to get more scum before outing?

I'll give my philosophy after I see some of yours.

[Parama]

1. I have been here for about 2 years now and have played over 9000 games.
2. Out the guilty, because I already lynched one scum the day before and had the third scum pinned as well.

[Twistedspoon]

Hiya
Of course it's nice to see my old compadrés, Haylen, johog, BB, etc.
Nice to meet the rest of the cast too of course :3

looking at BB's questions:
1) I've played a lot of MS games. I discovered mafia through smogon and then emigrated here at the end of last year. I can't stand chat mafia. I've played about 8 newbie games, 3 large games and 20+ of the mini and open games on MS. i've recently been cutting back on games and hydraing to improve my quality of play. I may be busy at the start of september as my 6th form term begins and such but hopefully this can be prioritised.
2) I would crumb my result and try to get the player lynched, but would not claim if I knew there were more scum to get. Crumbs are just as good as it's good cop protocol to crumb results imho. (that being said I've never been a cop expect for one time i was quicklynched d1 in a newbie game :s )

^you have an awesome username :3

clearly parama is playing RBS, Random Buddying stage

VOTE: parama

and in retrospect i realise you asked for a vote anyways, so here you are

People still believe in that stuff?

it works as well as anything for rvs though

[Zang]

1. I joined a little more than a year and a half ago. I think i've played in about 30 games all on this site, mostly mini themes.
2. I would try to lynch him without actually claiming, if that doesn't work then I would claim.

Fishy- Unless scum can daytalk during the confirm stage, I do not see how it helps them.

[Fishythefish]

1. See join date. Have been on and off ever since, I'd guess 50 odd games in total. Not so many recently.
2. If he was very lynchable indeed, I might breadcrumb heavily and try to lynch him. But almost all the time I'd just claim.

Zang - here they almost certainly could (mod's "opening the day" post told them to stop, and it's also in the scum example PM).

[Zang]

Ok, I didn't think that included the confirmation stage.

[Sathoris]

Looks like I'll have to rely on the results of the theta group to determine my strategy.

Kudos if you get the reference.

1. Played about 10 games on MS in an 11 month period. Still play on a different forum with a similar tempo. Altogether I'd say I played about 40 games.
2. Out the scum. Even if you got redirected it's better to know before you get your target lynched without using your cop result.

I'll have to run the numbers and see where my vote has the best impact.

I think it's quite likely that scum confirm later on average.

Why do you think that?

[PeregrineV]

I found it on the WOTC website and started playing there. I joined MS in February and have played about 30 games here and about 30 elsewhere.

I'd try to build a case on the person without claiming, but would claim before allowing them to live another night.

[Fishythefish]

@Sath: as explained above, since scum have daytalk during the confirmation stage it is to their advantage to have a longer confirmation stage. I imagine that occasionally this leads scum to confirm later than they otherwise would.

However, I think there's something better to vote on now:

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Twistedspoon
His vote for Parama gives an actual reason (buddying), which he then immediately undermines by saying he's voting because Parama asked for a vote. Smacks of not wanting to actually be involved in conflict. His comment to Haylen seems to do nothing but draw out the RVS further by trying to downplay the importance of what little content there is at this stage of the game.

[Sathoris]

@Sath: as explained above, since scum have daytalk during the confirmation stage it is to their advantage to have a longer confirmation stage. I imagine that occasionally this leads scum to confirm later than they otherwise would.

How do you know scum can daytalk dying the confirmation stage? I read Camn's example role PM carefully: "During the NIGHT cycle ONLY, you may talk with your fellow Mafia". Confirmation stage isn't a night cycle.

[Zang]

Fishy- I don't think twistedspoon meant that he voting Parama because he asked for it. Instead, he's probably just refering to it.

Sathoris- The example role says they can talk in night 0.

[Twistedspoon]

His vote for Parama gives an actual reason (buddying), which he then immediately undermines by saying he's voting because Parama asked for a vote.

it's not undermining, it's an addition (hence why I said in retrospect)

conflict doesn't matter anyways; It's RVS. Who develops conflict over an RVS vote?

[Fishythefish]

* You may communicate privately via QuickTopic with your fellow Mafia up until the game thread is opened (this is called Night 0). Once the game begins, all outside communication must cease until the night cycle.

DAY ONE BEGINS!

For anyone talking out of class: stop now!

[BBmolla]

VOTE: Fishy

Something about this guy seems fishy(hur hur), mostly his degree of seriousness during RVS, which to me is always a bad sign.

[Fishythefish]

Ninja'd.

@Spoon: what I mean is that the first of your reasons seems semi-serious, and the second thrown in to make it clear your vote is totally random. And serious votes early in the game develop conflict.

@BBmolla: why do you think seriousness during the RVS is a scumtell?

[Twistedspoon]

@Spoon: what I mean is that the first of your reasons seems semi-serious, and the second thrown in to make it clear your vote is totally random. And serious votes early in the game develop conflict.

i am of the opinion that no vote is truly random in RVS. Most of my random votes seem semi-serious but they're still random votes in RVS
if I'm to vote anyone it will be for something with a micron of suspicion, but still a random vote if that makes sense

the second part was just an observation which i found interesting and decided to include

[kanyeknowsbest]

Hello everyone! :D

I'd like to ask everyone a few questions just to learn a bit about everyone's experience and philosophy. Now this isn't required, but I'd appreciate it and it'll help me read you earlier.

1 -

Experience

- What is your prior experience with Mafia? How many games have you played at Mafiascum? How many games have you played elsewhere?
2 -

Philosophy

- If you were a cop and got a guilty on night one, would you out the guilty that day(not knowing if there is any protection of course) or would you try to get more scum before outing?

I'll give my philosophy after I see some of yours.

1. I have played something like 8 or 10 games. I haven't really been keeping track.
2. Both schools of thought, claiming vs not claiming, have some merit. I think it is largely circumstantial and situation specific though: there are many factors to consider when deciding to claim immediately or claim at a later date. For recent discussion on this topic please see this thread. Additionally, remember that there is usually basic discussion on these topics in the wiki.

[BBmolla]

Hello everyone!

I'd like to ask everyone a few questions just to learn a bit about everyone's experience and philosophy. Now this isn't required, but I'd appreciate it and it'll help me read you earlier.

1 -

Experience

- What is your prior experience with Mafia? How many games have you played at Mafiascum? How many games have you played elsewhere?
2 -

Philosophy

- If you were a cop and got a guilty on night one, would you out the guilty that day(not knowing if there is any protection of course) or would you try to get more scum before outing?

I'll give my philosophy after I see some of yours.

1. I have played something like 8 or 10 games. I haven't really been keeping track.
2. Both schools of thought, claiming vs not claiming, have some merit. I think it is largely circumstantial and situation specific though: there are many factors to consider when deciding to claim immediately or claim at a later date. For recent discussion on this topic please see this thread. Additionally, remember that there is usually basic discussion on these topics in the wiki.

Er, you're misunderstanding the question, it's more of a question to see if you're a risk taker or you play it safe. A risk taker would not claim, and would try to get numerous scum before outing. Someone who plays it safe would out it right away.

@Fishy: Town are much more relaxed as the worst that can happen to them is getting lynched, and even so, their team still has a good chance at winning.
Scum are more on edge, them getting lynched hurts their team severly considering they are(in this setup I think) 33% of their team. That's the equivalent to 3 townmembers dying in one night.

The above knowledge applies to RVS mostly.

[kanyeknowsbest]

I believe that I understood the question, and I definitely support its discourse.

You should not be so quick to make assumptions though. Not all of your town peers will feel too comfortable even in random voting stage. While it is ideal that all town should be willing to play optimally and be unconcerned with their lynch if it promotes the town win condition, that is not always the case. Some players will be anxious about "fitting in" with their fellow town regardless of whether they are scum or not. Now, I don't think this is a poor angle to pursue in ferreting out players with exceptional win cons, but please keep in mind that this is a diverse setting.

[Chair]

Zang is town for 31. Sathorsis might be town for 30.

@BB:
1) started in EM, migrated (thankfully) here. I have maybe 10-15 completed games here, and like 3 or 4 forum games off site.
2) breadcrumbs, push, etc. Don't claim if unnecessary.

VOTE: Twistedspoon

While it is ideal that all town should be willing to play optimally and be unconcerned with their lynch if it promotes the town win condition,

In what situation would the lynch of a town member promote the town win condition?

-implosion

[Lurconis]

Seems like I missed the RVS while at work

@Fishy that is a very weak reason to believe scum have day talk also (and I do realize the irony as I am committing the same crime right now) I don't like that you skipped RVS and immediatly jumped into a serious vote and then started either guessing about something only scum would know for sure and sticking by it so passionately this early on.

For that

Vote Fishy

BB

1. I have played dozens of games of real life mafia probably around 80 or 90, online I just started. I haven't completed any games on MS.
2. It would depend on the setup in a mini I would claim immediately after a night one scum read (I may wait until later in the game to see if they budeied or distanced from anyone first) in a large game where the is much more scum I would try to get the scum lynched but wouldn't flat out claimed unless I thought I was going to be NK'd anyway as I feel I could possibly find more scum while alive.

[Lurconis]

EBWOP I apologize for the misuse of the word irony above please substitute it for hypocrisy

[kanyeknowsbest]

In what situation would the lynch of a town member promote the town win condition? -implosion

I guess I misspoke, thank you for catching that. What I meant to say, and was referring to, was the nature in which a town member will win in the end with town, even if they are lynched. Some players will, instead of trying to catch scum, focus primarily on preventing their own lynch.

[kanyeknowsbest]

@Fishy that is a very weak reason to believe scum have day talk also (and I do realize the irony as I am committing the same crime right now) I don't like that you skipped RVS and immediatly jumped into a serious vote and then started either guessing about something only scum would know for sure and sticking by it so passionately this early on. For that Vote Fishy

Vote: Lurconis

There is nothing wrong with skipping the random voting stage if you have a read. This is the entire point of the random voting stage, creating information from which you can start to form reads and move the game along. Clinging to the random voting stage is not in the best interests of town.