Mini 1265: Wickedestjr's Mini Normal- Game Over

[ScreamingHawk]

Also should chuck this in UNVOTE: VOTE: Treznor
Wassup son?

[bionicchop2]

Sure, Bionic joined the game by voting and FoSing people who RVS'ed when there was dicussion that occurred which is generally a null-tell and a sign of a weaker player thus an easier lynch to push. Furthermore while he does this he himself doesn't state his thoughts on any of the discussion that had happened.

I guess the crux of your accusation is here, so I will respond to this. I won't get into a back and forth about it, so just take my response and file it away.

Your first assumption is that my vote on trez would be followed with a push to lynch them based on that single action. My vote in conjunction with the prior vote on him resulted in trez explaining himself a little better. If I had another good place for my vote, I likely would have moved it already. I came close to shifting it over to timeater, but they seem to be posting enough that they will give me a good amount of information regardless of a vote at this early stage.

As for "he does this himself", I don't see how you can call my vote on Trez a random vote. I never said Trez had to look at every current conversation and make a comment about each. I just know that when they voted, the game was hopping already and they could have found something of value to discuss.

I don't plan to dissect every back and forth between players and add my 2 cents. I certainly hope that others follow this as well. If I see something that I need to address, I certainly will, but if not I don't need to add clutter to a conversation.

[bionicchop2]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: screaminghawk

Explain your vote on treznor and your flimsy player analysis. You left some active players off the list.

[Odysseus]

Where/why did you almost vote timeeater?

Also I'm sorry but I don't think you will like my playstyle. Believe it or not, I've already had to hold back my two cents like 3 times already. I know MS doesn't like giant walls of text for every post so I'm really trying to dial it down. (Retro)

[bionicchop2]

Where/why did you almost vote timeeater?

Almost voting somebody isn't something I tend to announce. I started typing a post directed at them because they were still pressing hard on a page 1 vote/post and then decided not to. They were already in active conversations with a few people and I didn't think me openly disagreeing with their vote on uphill added anything to the process. Adding a vote to timeater IMO wouldn't have done anything of value, so I decided not to.

In hindsight, I should have just posted it instead of not doing it and mentioning that I almost did. I ended up generating more thread clutter in my attempt to not add thread clutter. I think their case against uphill is rubbish. Does it warrant a vote? I think less information will come from me voting timeater than my current vote on screaming, so no.

[el simo]

Offtopic post of awesome: Hi, DH! Do you remember me? We played awhile ago in a game with Slaxx and el simo. (In case you didn't see it from my wall of text, I'm Retrospective)

I remember this game so vividly but can't find it in my wiki. Do you remember the name?

This. After a long-time inactive, I just completed a newbie game that moved nowhere near as quickly as this one is (el_simo can back that up... the pace was.. painful). I'm trying to keep up but having trouble sometimes

I can vouch, it was painfully slow. I can also vouch that trez ignored a lot of posts, which was incredibly frustrating to scum el simo lol

Having said that: Timeater you are looking too much into this. You can't establish a tell based off events external to posted content. Saying you saw him online and noticed he didn't post doesn't count for much, because a) we don't know that he was online and b) even if he was we don't know what his circumstances were. There are too many unaccountable variables.

Odysseus makes a very interesting case against KB. I'm going to have to review when I get a chance.

And on that note: I have an exam today and tomorrow so don't expect too much out of me for the mo.

[ScreamingHawk]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: screaminghawk

Explain your vote on treznor and your flimsy player analysis. You left some active players off the list.

Filmsy analysis is my meta. Also Soben's analysis in #66 got no remarks from you about being filmsy. That was merely a town/scum list. No reasoning at all.

Treznor seems to be either a weak player - not holding his own values very high - , or scum sheep.

My vote isn't going to stay on el_simo, just wanted to pick on him a bit as we ran into each other in our last game

unvote

In #37 #44 claims Katty town-fighting (i.e. is town) then once called on it something something something #98


I'm going to post this anyway so you can see my train of thought but I was skim reading before and after going through ISO case is very weak. I don't have a strong scum read on anyone really at this point so vote stays.

Also people I missed didn't stick out while I was skimming through. Sorry about that.

[Wickedestjr]

Votecount 1.4:

treznor - [3] - Timeater, DemonHybrid, ScreamingHawk
Katty Bard - [3] - Uphill, Odysseus, Soben
Timeater - [1] - el simo
Uphill - [1] - Katty Bard
el simo - [1] - Gen_Wolf
ScreamingHawk - [1] - bionicchop2


Not Voting - [3] - Yonzy, treznor, redtail896

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch or 7 to no-lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2011-11-09 11:01:07)

[bionicchop2]

Filmsy analysis is my meta. Also Soben's analysis in #66 got no remarks from you about being filmsy. That was merely a town/scum list. No reasoning at all.

I'm going to post this anyway so you can see my train of thought but I was skim reading before and after going through ISO case is very weak. I don't have a strong scum read on anyone really at this point so vote stays.

Also people I missed didn't stick out while I was skimming through. Sorry about that.

1. self-meta is self-meta.

2. Soben had prefaced their list with an earlier post that stated some town reads.

3. I can accept that it was a quicklist off a skim read depending on how your play develops though and if the thoughts go any deeper. IMO, the exclusion of me on the list just struck me as odd since I had been fairly active right before you posted, yet you included redtail who hadn't said much. I feel I am an active enough player in general that other players should get some kind of a read on me - even if it is decidedly null. Excluding players would have also seemed less odd if you didn't have a list of mostly null reads.

[Odysseus]

@el simo; Here you go: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=15298 - If people wanna skim this game for meta: DH was scum, Slaxx was town, el simo was town and I was town

[ScreamingHawk]

@bionicchop2 - I wanted meta on you before I came to any conclusion.

@Odys - ty for game link.

[bionicchop2]

@bionicchop2 - I wanted meta on you before I came to any conclusion.

There is none currently. All my old games don't show up in my post history. The games are either archived or gone or something. I was inactive for like 2 years. In one active game, but no completed games for review.

[el simo]

@el simo; Here you go: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=15298 - If people wanna skim this game for meta: DH was scum, Slaxx was town, el simo was town and I was town

Ah thanks.. I wonder how that one escaped my wiki.. I remember it so clearly!

[Wickedestjr]

The activity is very good... for the most part- I need to find a replacement for Timeater.

[Katty Bard]

UNVOTE:

I've had a migraine all day, so this is going to be very brief and incomplete.

In the current climate, my vote is indeed terrible. My reasoning was that he just straight-up said, "I'm trying to get this person lynched." That doesn't translate into RvS OR generating discussion to me, so I didn't like it. And, as somebody already speculated (sorry, I forget who it was in my skim-through) at the time it was all I had. When I feel better, I'll read deeper into the game and provide a stronger defense than this.

Also, the hypothesis that I'm a semi-weak player but with SOME experience is correct. I've completed a whopping three games off-site and am currently in a fourth.

[Uphill]

Only an inexperienced player would think an earlygame page one vote would lead to an actual lynch, especially one with votes without any stated reasoning. I originally questioned his vote because of the predatory nature of if, which is fine really considering nobody had anything to work with. Wagoning Soben for purpose of wagon would have been entirely acceptable in my eyes. Wagons lead to conflict and information. Conflict leads to tells and reads. Reads lead to good lynches. Saying he's trying to get Soben lynched is false on two accounts: the first being that his vote actually means anything, the second being that he is not actually trying. He is not pushing any sort of Soben lynch.

If I can borrow your phrase for a moment, what the fuckmuffins? My vote pushes towards a lynch, and lynches obviously mean something. How was I not pushing a Soben lynch? I was voting him! What more do you expect, a case on a random lynch?

This falseness is reinforced by his second sentence which is sort of a challenge. Who am I to ask HIM anything when I haven't even voted? How scummy of me! A deflection. Why?

Oh I dunno, maybe FOR THE SAME EXACT REASON YOU ASKED ME THE SAME EXACT THING ABOUT MY VOTE? You know, to start forming reads on people?

My scumread is intensified when he says "lynching an unknown is better than not lynching". I approach this from a newbie angle. Lynching is not in the question right now. Any experienced player knows this. Not lynching is not on the table. This sort of strange wording is indicative of someone who doesn't exactly know whats going but is trying to parry with something that doesn't make too much sense.

Yes, I'm aware that 99 times out of a 100, there's not going to be a lynch decision during the random stage. That still doesn't change the following two facts:

A) At any given point in the game, a player has two choices: lynch, or do not lynch
B) Lynching an unknown is better than not lynching anyone

Therefore, even though I knew full well that Soben was unlikely to get lynched in the RVS, it was still the best play available.

edwop

Unless Uphill says he's actually a Reckoner(insert good mafiascum player here) alt, I'll buy that interpretation

Reckoner is in my other game, so if I said I was him I'd get banned for double dipping. You'll just have to pick some other good MS player for me to claim to be.

Where/why did you almost vote timeeater?

Almost voting somebody isn't something I tend to announce. I started typing a post directed at them because they were still pressing hard on a page 1 vote/post and then decided not to.

They were already in active conversations with a few people and I didn't think me openly disagreeing with their vote on uphill added anything to the process.

Adding a vote to timeater IMO wouldn't have done anything of value, so I decided not to.

In hindsight, I should have just posted it instead of not doing it and mentioning that I almost did. I ended up generating more thread clutter in my attempt to not add thread clutter. I think their case against uphill is rubbish. Does it warrant a vote? I think less information will come from me voting timeater than my current vote on screaming, so no.

So your strategy is let everyone else fight your battles for you? This is even better than Katty

UNVOTE:
VOTE: bionicchop2

[bionicchop2]

So your strategy is let everyone else fight your battles for you? This is even better than Katty

You are right. I should say "me too" if I agree with something just to add another post to my post count. It isn't a battle until I think someone is scum. Until then I am gathering information. If I feel the best way for me to do that in a particular situation is to not disrupt a conversation between 2 or more players, that is the route I will go.

[treznor]

Wow, went from a frenetic storm of posts to.... eerily quiet.

[Soben]

I'm not liking the votes on Treznor at all, his recent posting has greatly strengthened my town read on him and there's much better places for votes to be right now. Oh and Retrospective, nothing prompted me to read Times past games, I was in two and was observing another casually.

Bionicchop2, I didn't mean to say that your vote was random at all. I meant that you yourself avoided commenting on the previous discussion which is essentially the reason behind your vote on Trez in the first place. It just reads as an opportunistic attempt to seem active by picking on the weaker and lurkier players.

Town Reads (S->W):

Timeater, Odysseus, Treznor, Uphill, DemonHybrid.

Null Reads:

Redtail896, Yonzy, Gen_Wolf, ScreamingHawk.

Scum Reads (S->W):

Katty Bard, El Simo, Bionicchop2.

[el simo]

And why am I a scum read?

[Soben]

You've spent more time talking about previous games than attempting to scumhunt while maintaining your vote on Timeater for a reason I don't even understand only to appeal to him saying he's looking into things far too deeply which implies you think he's town.

[el simo]

I've made three references to previous games, two were irrelevant in which I asked for the name, one was game related. This does not constitute to "more of my time."

I don't know how looking into something too much implies he is town. I was suggesting that he is reaching and that it isn't a legitimate tell at all. This is scummy.

[Odysseus]

Ooh, explain your DH read too please

[Soben]

Having said that: Timeater you are looking too much into this. You can't establish a tell based off events external to posted content. Saying you saw him online and noticed he didn't post doesn't count for much, because a) we don't know that he was online and b) even if he was we don't know what his circumstances were. There are too many unaccountable variables.

I was suggesting that he is reaching and that it isn't a legitimate tell at all. This is scummy.

El Simo, I don't get the impression that you were calling him reaching or scummy at all from reading the first quote, it reads more as attempting to give him advice on how to scumhunt which does indeed imply you think he's town. While you're online though I'd love the rest of your reads.

Retropsective, the town-read on DemonHybrid is mostly meta-based and revolves around his attitude towards Timeater when saying "this is completely serious. 22 is so fucking terribad." and "yuck. Go ahead, timeater, you can bus him." but it's a weaker read than my other town reads at the moment.

[el simo]

If I were suggesting he is town I'd have removed my vote.

I'm actually busy studying for an exam tomorrow morning (just finished an exam this afternoon actually) so I don't actually have the time to post anything detailed. I will do a more detailed read this weekend as I'll only have one exam left and ample to study for it.