Open 23 - Masons and Monks (GAME OVER) - before 458

[dylan41985]

i'm easily convinced by other people's arguments.

Don't draw the suspicion towards me if others are also voting for the same person. They;re just as guilty of voting so don't make me feel so guilty.

[J-man]

lets just take a brief gander at my accuser before i put up a point for point defence why his accusation is garbage;
these are all the posts by Sweenytodd in order with explainations as i feel needed, i will try my best to keep them in context and not judge them unfairly.

Post 1 (pg1)
Vote: beanbagboy ... I don't take too kindly to alliteration = ).
<i assume random nothing signifegant to say.>

Post 2 (pg1)
^picture that i assume is supposed to represent bandwagon jumping^
All aboard!!Unvote:beanbagboy, Vote: OJ
<his very first bandwagon... oh isn't that cute?>

Post 3 (pg2)
Unvoting is scummy... Can we lynch Oj please?
<this post was in response to ojpower unvoting his random.(post #27)>

Post 4 (pg2)
Soooo... what's Adel doing that strikes you as so scummy LSU?
<post in response to #29 from LSU Tiger Josh; this is his first post where he asks a question to another player.>

Post 5 (pg2)
Um... Lynch -1? Bad idea... Unvote: OJ, Vote: NAR
<another unexplained unvote vote by Sweeny, just incase im wrong -1 is nothing to be afraid of in a C9 game why is it such a bad idea now?>

Post 6 (pg2)
^little picture with a sign that says 'good Posting'^
<hardly good i was thinking at that point... it had been nearly a WEEK with about 1 1/2 pages of writing... not very good at all...>

<NOT ONE POST ON PG. 3>

for referance the stuff inside the <> were my editorial and between the ^^ were my best descriptions of his 'pictures'.

we move onto pg 4... and he posts the stuff that we are presently so sure that is true.

ok im not sure about you guys but just from looking at his posts if we took out all the posts that had no content in them he would have....depends how you decide whether or not his votes are 'content' worth but ill give him 2 posts besides the latest so a whole 4 posts which we can then say since it was a double post we shall make that 1 so 3 posts.... in 10 days.... since when does that make som1 so highly regarded... :S


since you guys are clearly eager to get some reading material ill post this then post the remainder of my defence, it im the process now will be out soon.

[J-man]

well first of all i don't know how any of you can be convinced by Sweeny that post was a half mash of twisted truths and unasked questions...

lets actually 'look at the cases when i voted on these 'bandwagons'
heres my first vote the 'random' one as most people call it;

Vote: Adel

for not following protocol and unvoteing before revoting

oh yes thats me jumping on a bandwagon alright... remember the the first vote was ADEL... lol i and i was pointing out the fact that he had unvoted.
I'll consider that first 'bandwagon rebuffed.

now on to the 'second'

lol people if your planning to Lurk you could atleast make an apparently useful post rather then the garbage that you haave posted... ROFL

well since i dont want to be hypocritical i guess i have to do something; and to that extent im going to Unvote Adel and Vote: ojpower since im not seeing Adel as scum atm and my vote makes people think that thats where im leaning but in fact is was pretty much random... and why OJ you ask? eh we gotta bandwagon someone

now this post could very well have been my death if you guys were trying to single me out and run for a quick lynch before anyone looked at the facts but thats why i am here.
lets, just for a little context look at the post right after mine

NAR wrote

unvote, vote Ojpower

Let's act scummy and start beastly bandwagoning Ojpower!

this is putting my vote in context, we were both being light hearted about our original votes and this bandwagon started out inoccently enough.. and me being a bandwagon jumper my post also explains my first vote some.

and the third vote.

unvote, Vote:now a ranger
NAR is at -1 to lynch DO NOT vote unless you have a dang good reason.

nar are you trying to br the most OMGUSy person ive ever played with? because your statements and else are completly useless OMGUS

that is what you call a well placed pressure nudge against NAR i completly realized that i was over exsagerating and as such i wanted to sound irrational, to apply pressure to NAR, but ofcourse that was quicly wrecked since our group has yet to understand the importance of the pressure differnce of -1 lynch then -2
and that is his most flawless accusation of me... i can't believe that you would think that it was good... did you not even check out the posts for youself? or just go on his sporatic some might call lurking word?

all i can say is that there is 4 OMGUS vote on me and i cant understand how you can all be so inactive but so ready to vote on moments notice...

[J-man]

plz forgive spelling mistakes it is late and im tired i wont be able to repond for about 20hs from this post tommorow is busy

[Sweenytodd]

Since you took exception to my posts to this point, allow me to explain a bit. I'm a new player and so I decided to try out a different playstyle in this game... Something influenced by Babyjesus and Fritzler (i.e. pushing bandwagons and using cute little pictures because they make me smile = )...) The reason I have been my OJ bandwagon vote was easy... The first person with a second vote on him I decided to place the third, I like bandwagons because I analyze them and see who is willing to vote for who on what reasoning and to see how people react to those bandwagons...

The NAR vote was because I found putting someone 1 vote away from a lynch in pst 35 on page 2 to be careless at best and scummy at worst... As my previous vote was random I moved my vote to suit my suspicions. The question about the Adel vote was because I thought it was random but if I had missed something from Adel I wanted to see what it was... The "Good Posting" pic was just an image I wanted to use so I used it to highlight someone voting for NAR who I saw as the most suspicious at the time...

When I went back and looked at my notes (mostly voting patterns so far) you were on the most bandwagons and always a late position, always following people onto a bandwagons rather than starting your own. I provided my reasoning on my vote for you and now have explained my posting... Sure it's had some non-content posts but its the first 4-5 pages so what do you expect? A detailed PbP analysis of everyone?

Since you were so kind to analyze my posts, I shall return the favor on you...

Post: #1

An arbitrary vote for Adel based on Pg. 1 logic. Happened to be 3rd vote, no problem there, its similar to my OJ vote.

Post: #2

Encouraging the lynching of Adel because she has over 100 posts on the site... Obviously not serious...

Post: #3

Laughs at Adels post and says she was lurking. Says he is hypocritical and changes his vote to OJ cause "eh we gotta bandwagon someone". Doesn't seem like terribly sharp logic but its only page 2 so I'm not overly concerned...

Post: #4

Accuses Adel of going after the inactive (which I don't believe she was) and tris to vote for her but forgets to unvote first...

Post: #5

Apologizes for his previous post. Says it was based on events from another game.

Post: #6

Votes for NAR, putting him at lynch -2 (though he thought it was -1) Accuses him of being OMGUSy (I'll re-read and count how many OMGUS votes/comments he makes because I haven't done so yet.)

Post: #7

Asks people to hold off on voting till he can provide a defense.

Post: #8

Analyzes me (because I joined LSU on his bandwagon but actually provided reasons...)

I am not sure how he decided which of mine to call "content posts" so I won't bother arbitrarily deciding which of his are content posts or not... I just thought I would give my analysis of his posts so far since he was kind enough to do so for my posts. My overall feeling is that he felt Adel was scummy early though I don't recall him giving a concrete reason. After that he hopped onto the two largest bandwagons. And now he has analyzed my posts. I am looking forward to the rest of your defense, if anything this discussion you and I are having will provide more content for people to analyze as the day and the game progess. = )

[LSU Tiger Josh]

Considering my vote was really just random and the metagaming reason is as good of a reason as any to do a random vote I really had nothing much to add there. In regards to the Lurking comment NAR I had my reunion last weekend and wasn't on much. I did a courtesy glance around and that was it. When people are tied up in real life events they don't spend a ton of time playing mafia at least i know I don't . Since then I check once or twice a day just to see what's been said and if I have something to say will say it.

[JDodge]

Vote Count:

J-Man - 4 (LSU Tiger Josh, Sweenytodd, Stewie, dylan41985)
now a ranger - 1 (J-Man)

Not voting (5): ojpower, now a ranger, The Greg, beanbagboy, Adel

6 to lynch.

[J-man]

When I went back and looked at my notes (mostly voting patterns so far) you were on the most bandwagons and always a late position, always following people onto a bandwagons rather than starting your own. I provided my reasoning on my vote for you and now have explained my posting... Sure it's had some non-content posts but its the first 4-5 pages so what do you expect? A detailed PbP analysis of everyone?

you say that BECAUSE its the first couple pages thats

why

you dont have any content posts? hmmm ok... silly excuse but ill let it slid, and so following that logic you decide that a lynch at this point is a good thing? Because that is what i assume you are going for, sinc eyou have convinced 2 people to vote on me atm and others before hand, in the game of mafia i am scared of 2 things:
1. An early lynch
2. A vocal Mafia that can pull it off

now i can see that in this game people have become scared of -1 aswell... why? I would like somone to explain to me why -1 is soo taboo, and yes the -1 lynch is a tightrope to walk and it does apply a whole new type of pressure then even -2 so i think we need to understand this for other games we play, if we learn this early bandwagons can draw that much more content, there are two things that go along with a -1 tho first a warning it is

YOUR

( the voter) responsibility to ensure that everyone is sufficently warned that to vote is to hammer, very very dangerous early game.

and to move along from that i want to address two things that never should have went unadressed/ underadressed
1. Dylans -1 lynch on me, that would speak volumes to me about mafia(his innocence) whether i was on the block or not.

FOS(tupidity):dylan

2. Adel jumping on my bandwagon
this post specifically:

That is an amazing clear argument. I wasn't even considering him seriously, now you have me convinced.

unvote: NAR, Vote:J-Man

i would like you to explain why me changing my vote several times is such a scummy thing to to and convinced? pah that post merited no such esteem, all you have to do is look at the voting patterns of the general pop. and you find that my voting isn't unusual in the slightest.

FOS(tupidity):adel

[dylan41985]

beanbagboy has been flying under the radar a little too much for me... I'd like to hear more from him, because right now he looks like scum.

[Adel]

J-man: the little show you just put on isn't convincing, or very distracting.

*shrug*

vote:J-man

I think you are the one that needs to do some explaining. If other players are voting in a pattern that fits the profile of scum attempting to join bandwagons without attracting attention, the onus is upon

you

to prove it. Or try providing a decent case in your own defense.

Until you do I am perfectly happy seeing you at

-1 to lynch

[Sweenytodd]

Because that is what i assume you are going for, sinc eyou have convinced 2 people to vote on me atm and others before hand

So you assume that because my case has convinced two people to vote for you that I am aiming to quick-lynch? How is that logic?

BECAUSE its the first couple pages thats why you dont have any content posts?

I never said I don't have any... But seriously in the first 3 pages how many content posts am I supposed to have? What CONTENT is there to analyze... Random votes?

now i can see that in this game people have become scared of -1 aswell... why? I would like somone to explain to me why -1 is soo taboo

It has more to do with where the -1 comes how I am going to react to it... If it is on page 2 or 3 I am going to throw a fit because I don't like people getting that close... Now if it were page 15 I would react differently because we have had more discussion and thus more info to work with than before.

and yes the -1 lynch is a tightrope to walk and it does apply a whole new type of pressure then even -2 so i think we need to understand this for other games we play

Please explain this to me. Whaen you say it is more pressure than -2, what sort of pressure do you mean? Pressure to claim? And what sort of reaction are you looking for/what information have you gotten from your 2 -2 votes? I ask this because I am still learning and would honestly like to know how much info you have gotten from that.

[J-man]

Adel wrote:

J-man: the little show you just put on isn't convincing, or very distracting.

*shrug* vote:J-man I think you are the one that needs to do some explaining. If other players are voting in a pattern that fits the profile of scum attempting to join bandwagons without attracting attention, the onus is upon you to prove it. Or try providing a decent case in your own defense.

Until you do I am perfectly happy seeing you at -1 to lynch

thats fine adel put me at -1 if you really think it is neccisary but could you atleast not ignore my questions? give me somthing to defend my self against... these last couple plays of yours are looking quite scummy.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
glad to see the post Sweeny lately ive been trying to post more clearly and yet again i fail... but atleast i know where i fell short:
about you pushing for a quick lynch; i meant for the amount fo people that you have convinced and you opushing for a quick lynch to be seperate points related i guess but not directly like it appears you thought i meant, ill try again to make that clearer:

i was pointing out that several people had voted with you without apparently readressing the situation, then my next point about what i was afraid of was intended to be a unrelated point more game theory then anything.

again the next point you adress about me saying you have no content within the first three pages was welll adressed and in the way you interpted it was corrected properly; this again was aimed more at game theory(somthing im going to have to stop doing) i was also trying to draw attention to how you had really very little content and then no post at all on pg 4, i was also trying to decide how people could find your post so convincing.

your third point that you addressed is got one flaw in it imo i think its even more important early on that we apply erroneous amounts of pressure for minor scum tells BECAUSE there is so little content to go on. By responding overdramaticly you can draw out much more content from players that normally wouldn't have to defend themselves, mabye people don't like this but i think it has a great advantages.

the fourth thing you pointed out is very closly tied to the previous point, and yes in this game there has been an appaling shortage of content, why? well i think ine of the reasons is that we havn't really had a town leader(

**I DO NOT mean role claim**

) come forward yet, and this game is going painfully slowly

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in a seperate point i think we need to deal with adel, (yes im about to metagame) this game is an oddity for him imo, his first -1 lynch vote there is not a mention about im at -1 i find that odd coming from Adel then he unvotes... indescition?? then he ignores my questions and calls them a show and disraction somthing that has very little wieght, what else am i supposed to do.. when there is very little agianst me and im still on the lynch block? I would like to hear from Adel very much, about why he is sure im mafia and why Sweenytolds post was so convincing.

we also need to get Dylan to talk, im just as new as you Dylan, but you dont see me always posting one line ro less... give us somthing anything just throw a bone plz.

[J-man]

Dylan wote:

beanbagboy has been flying under the radar a little too much for me... I'd like to hear more from him, because right now he looks like scum.

you need to be more focused, i agree that BBB is flying under the radar, but why am i mafia Dylan? You need to explain your votes and w/o that people are going to keep pushing you and wasteing there time where it is not needed.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
i just wanted to say that however much Sweeny is fishing for a target(imo), at this point ill give him the benifit of the doubt and say that hes just trying to move this game forward
and until Adel saites me im going to try to make people think for themselves,

Unvote; Vote: Adel

[Sweenytodd]

Sweeny is fishing for a target(imo)

Call it fishing for a target if you wish, I am trying to get information the same as any other day 1... That said I am going to

Unvote:J-man

These wagons go fast in this game.. Time to re-read. = )

[Adel]

now i can see that in this game people have become scared of -1 aswell... why? I would like somone to explain to me why -1 is soo taboo, and yes the -1 lynch is a tightrope to walk and it does apply a whole new type of pressure then even -2 so i think we need to understand this for other games we play, if we learn this early bandwagons can draw that much more content, there are two things that go along with a -1 tho first a warning it is

YOUR

( the voter) responsibility to ensure that everyone is sufficently warned that to vote is to hammer, very very dangerous early game.

{snip}

i would like you to explain why me changing my vote several times is such a scummy thing to to and convinced? pah that post merited no such esteem, all you have to do is look at the voting patterns of the general pop. and you find that my voting isn't unusual in the slightest.

Are the previous question you refer to buried somewhere in these paragraphs?

Try asking me an explicit question if you want a response from me.

Here is one for you: You stated that the town needs a leader, who do you think that leader should be?

[J-man]

ok i guess your right i haven't asked you any specific questions but then again i never expected to have to pull teeth either >.<

here are a couple questions for you:
1. Are you mafia? (if no continue)

2. Could you explain why Sweenytodds post is convincing?

3. Why did you not Alert that i was -1 the first time you did?

4. Who do you think the town leader should be?
(well my answer to this is i hope to god it doesn't become you, i don't trust you any father then i can throw you[@adel])

5. what do you think of Dylan's erratic posting and one liners?

there i made it easy for you now ignore these and i will only have 1 conclusion to draw.

[Adel]

in a seperate point i think we need to deal with adel, (yes im about to metagame) this game is an oddity for him imo, his first -1 lynch vote there is not a mention about im at -1 i find that odd coming from Adel then he unvotes... indescition??

The last time I voted for you was the first time I voted you to -1 to lynch, and I even bolded that you were -1 to lynch.

Does "indescition" = "indecision" or "indiscretion"

It is pretty clear that I unvoted you because down from -1 because dylan's vote was so suspect. I voted you back up to -1 because I feel it is probable enough that you are scum to warrant it.

Here is me meta-gaming you: J-man is capable of typing out a coherent post, yet he is choosing not to. Is appearing incompetent and confused part of his defense? It is possible. The repeated finger pointing and votes directed at me are interesting, when you aren't jumping on another's bandwagon you are trying to get one started on me. You've voted "Adel" three times in five pages. Why should anyone think your grudge against me has anything to do with my alignment in this game? I read your case against me and I see

@#!$!@%@!%$ vote for Adel because I do not like her #@!%#@#$@^%#@

...not very convincing.

[Adel]

ok i guess your right i haven't asked you any specific questions but then again i never expected to have to pull teeth either >.<

here are a couple questions for you:
1. Are you mafia? (if no continue)

i'll take the syntax of that question to mean that you are a werewolf.

Major Scum Tell

and no, I am not mafia.

2. Could you explain why Sweenytodds post is convincing?

He pointed out you voting pattern, and it that matches what I expect the active scum player to do.

3. Why did you not Alert that i was -1 the first time you did?

I put it in bold. That is the warning.

4. Who do you think the town leader should be?
(well my answer to this is i hope to god it doesn't become you, i don't trust you any father then i can throw you[@adel])

No-one independent thought is the best. The only people who can be 100% confident of another alignment are the mafia, and you and the other werewolf.

5. what do you think of Dylan's erratic posting and one liners?

Horrible play. Earned my vote already. There is a good chance that he is just a newbie who isn't very good at banging at the keyboard yet. I would like to see more pressure on him, after you are lynched. There is a chance that he is a mason or a monk, and I would like to get the good lynch out of the way before we risk outing any more power roles.

there i made it easy for you now ignore these and i will only have 1 conclusion to draw.

Now that I've answered them I expect you'll collect your next vote pretty soon.

[J-man]

>.< lol since when have i not liked you? there is a difference between not liking somone and repecting there skill.. ie watching them closer which in my games with you is what ive decided.

i can't understand how you can decide that im mafia so quickly and sorry to burst your bubble but bolding your vote... somthing that you have to do is not enough of a warning for a -1 vote...

your so convinced that i am mafia JUST by examining my vothing patterns? that is bull... an early lynch like this needs much more thought and discussion then a couple posts over a couple hours, your being silly AND scummy at the same time Adel, and about you reading into the syntax of me asking if you are mafia, to assume that i am a werewolf... cmon you can do better then that, pathetic, your only weakening your own case by saying things like that.

[J-man]

EBWOP: Im at -2 now that Sweenytodd has unvoted fyi
Adel wrote:

Now that I've answered them I expect you'll collect your next vote pretty soon.

[Sweenytodd]

i'll take the syntax of that question to mean that you are a werewolf

Just so ya know... I thought the SAME thing when I read his postings.

[Adel]

what am I supposed to wait for you to say "I'm a werewolf"? Voting patterns and little slips are all we ever have to go off of day 1. I missed that you are at -2, but I'm very convinced of your guilt. Go ahead & meta-game me on this, it is very unusual thing for me to do, but I am sold thanks to your questions so I am pushing for an early lynch.

Until you do I am perfectly happy seeing you at

-1 to lynch

That is the warning in bold I was referring to. Did you miss it or are you trying to sow more confusion as a defense?

[JDodge]

Sir Tornado replaces beanbagboy.

[Sir Tornado]

Ok, first of all, I don't think Adel's self vote at the start of the game was anything more than random vote. I am a bit intrigued by the bandwagon it seemed to have started though, and am particularly unhappy with this post by dylan41985

This is turning out to be a very interesting vote! I could switch my vote to Adel, but I need some convincing.

It seemed very strange. I mean, why would anyone justify their first day vote? It looked like Dylan was trying to transform the random bandwagon on Adel to something with some substance in it.

OJ unvotes, and Sweenytodd, for some reason feels it is scummy (Why the unvoting of a random vote seeems scummy, beats me)

LSU comments on OJ and Adel looking scummy to him (don't get that either). The comment is followed by a mini bandwagon on LSU. This is followed by some pretty random votehopping by Adel, NAR and Greg. At this point, I get the feeling that NAR is trying to be too be too much in the limelight.

Then, J-Man votes and unvotes Adel claiming meta-gaming. Later, NAR goes on -1, and then gets unvotes. This is followed by a bandwagon on J-Man. Dylan then quietly puts J-man on -1.

This is followed by analysis of Sweeny by J-Man, and a counter analysis by Sweeny and Adel.

Personally, I think J-Man and Dylan have looked pretty scummy. So,

Vote J-Man

FOS: Dylan

[ojpower]

I am convinced that J-man is scum by other people's words. So

Vote:J-man

.