Open 30 - Fire and Ice (Game Over!) - before 470

[Guardian]

Some time has gone by
People have made a few votes
I arrive to count them

Official Vote Count #5.

xyzzy[2] (Mert, Sefer)
AutumnEvenings{AE}[2] (Stewie, CTD)
PBuG[2] (Wizardcat, AE)
Crub[2] (MBL, Glork)
CTD[1] (LML)
Sefer[1] (xyzzy)
Glork[1] (Crub)


Not Voting[1] (Vendagoat)

With 12 alive, It will take 7 to Lynch.

---

Notes:

Deadline in ~60 hours

. At deadline, 4 votes will be required to lynch. First come, first serve, in case of a tie.

For the above vote count, I was a nice guy. A great guy, even. You all love me even more.

From now on, though, I

will not

count new votes that are presented without an unvote, much preferably in the format I specified. You have been warned.

EDIT

(as no one had posted after me yet):

mneme replaces in for Wizardcat, who requested replacement, effective immediately! Thanks mneme, and welcome!

[mneme]

Just replaced in. I've re-read, but I'm still not really feeling my feet.

That said, I understand we're under a deadline, so

vote: crub

[LoudmouthLee]

Some time has gone by
People have made a few votes
I arrive to count them

Official Vote Count #5.

xyzzy[2] (Mert, Sefer)
AutumnEvenings{AE}[2] (Stewie, CTD)
PBuG[2] (Wizardcat, AE)
Crub[2] (MBL, Glork)
CTD[1] (LML)
Sefer[1] (xyzzy)
Glork[1] (Crub)


Not Voting[1] (Vendagoat)

With 12 alive, It will take 7 to Lynch.

---

Notes:

Deadline in ~60 hours

. At deadline, 4 votes will be required to lynch. First come, first serve, in case of a tie.

For the above vote count, I was a nice guy. A great guy, even. You all love me even more.

From now on, though, I

will not

count new votes that are presented without an unvote, much preferably in the format I specified. You have been warned.

EDIT

(as no one had posted after me yet):

mneme replaces in for Wizardcat, who requested replacement, effective immediately! Thanks mneme, and welcome!

@Mod,

please change PBug's name with mine.

Just replaced in. I've re-read, but I'm still not really feeling my feet.

That said, I understand we're under a deadline, so vote: crub

Looking at the vote count, there are 3 players with 2 votes or more. Why Crub over AE, Myself (as PBug) or Xyzzy?

[mneme]

Didn't see much substance to your bandwagon, nor xyzzy's, nor AE's.

Crub's looks like it's at least based on an OMGUS vote. Actually, more than one; he OMGUSed xyzzy, too.

(that said, I don't get MBL saying crub protected xyzzy. Is there reasoning there?)

[Vendagoat]

I'm a bit confused, because "buddying up", in the traditional sense, is not something done between two scum players on the same team.

Look I'm new to non newbie games, but when there are two teams of two mafia it looks a bit odd. To me at least, can't speak for anyone else.
and your buddy goes from

No reason not to finish off Xyzzy now.

to

Actually,

Unvote, Vote: Crub

... there really isn't a heck of a lot to go on, but I think that CTD could serve to be useful one way or another, regardless of his alignment.

when you two get called on it. Now while crub has been acting "strangely". why the flop after LDL calls you guys on it. I'm just having trouble here is all.

[LoudmouthLee]

when you two get called on it. Now while crub has been acting "strangely". why the flop after LDL calls you guys on it. I'm just having trouble here is all.

I'm going to assume you meant LML (not LDL) and I agree with you entirely.

[Vendagoat]

sorry LML yes.

[Crub]

How is my vote OMGUS? Because glork FoS'd me? I voted for him because as has been noted and as I said at the time of my vote, when LML pointed out the relationship between glork and CTD the first thing glork did was back down and swap votes to follow LML. Now he's OMGUS'd me ... wow good reasoning mneme.

Also I assume MBL said I was protecting xyzzy because as soon as he went below 4 votes (when I unvoted) his neck was no longer on the chopping block. However apart from acting strange, which I assume is normal for xyzzy, there was no real reason to be voting for him in the first place.

[Glork]

Seriously. Anybody who honestly thinks that CTD and I are scum together is a complete moron.

[Stewie]

1. You yourself said later that it was actually the second vote, so I can't understand why you didn't delete it and start again, abandoning that point. It's not as if it was a simulpost, and I would have been the third but MBL beat me with the unvote, so it was the second. There were hours between his unvote and my vote.

2. Ok, next time I'll vote and then I'll say "I'm voting for you because I want to see if I get a reaction" and see if that works.

3. There wasn't much going on, and I wanted to get the game going. A reaction vote seemed like a good idea.

#1) The point still stood. It wasn't that you were exactly the third vote, but you were the third person to vote for AE. Once a person votes for someone, they do not have the same hesitation to vote for them again. I can only speak for myself. Once a case has been made that I agree with, I am more apt to vote for that person, whether or not my vote is currently there.

#2 and #3) So.. you prefer the "Reaction Vote" over the "Make a Case" idea. Very interesting. Sometimes, the cases overanalyze... But I feel much more comfortable making a case and seeing how they respond to allegations rather than a simple vote.

1. What has being the third person to vote AE have anything to do with being scum? Other than that, I'll have to ask you to reword that, as I can't understand what you mean to say.

2-3. I don't prefer it, but I didn't see a case, so I went for the reaction. If you like to force a case to see their reaction, that's fine. I like to just switch my vote without explanation and see what they say.

[LoudmouthLee]

Seriously. Anybody who honestly thinks that CTD and I are scum together is a complete moron.

Dude. WIFOM.

I have seen two excellent scum run a similar gambit on the GL. They were all buddy buddy, and when one turned up to be scum, I said there was "no way they'd be that obvious..."

I have learned to take actions at face value. I call it as I see it. I am unsure that BOTH of you are scum... but I feel that 1 of you *probably* is.

[Vendagoat]

Seriously. Anybody who honestly thinks that CTD and I are scum together is a complete moron.

I'm not exactly going to say wifom. I'll just say, freaking lame defense.

[Glork]

Meh. I am in no danger of being lynched. Incidentally, I would find those who tack onto the bad attack more suspect than the bad attack itself.

A question for you, LmL: What, from my end, makes you believe that I am CTD's scumbuddy? Why do you feel that his posting could be indicative of scumbuddies rather than, as I suggested earlier, a simple buddy-up tactic?

Vendagoat, I would encourage you to answr the same.

[Glork]

And by the way, LmL, I certainly don't think I would qualify as "excellent scum." I'd say that I've only recently broken the threshold of "decent scum." Also, as aggressive as I am when pro-town, my internal tactics are far more conservative as scum. Gambitting has never been my style.... but then again, as I don't think you've ever played a forum game with GlorkScum, I wouldn't expect you to know/believe that anyway.

[Vendagoat]

Look I'm new to non newbie games, but when there are two teams of two mafia it looks a bit odd. To me at least, can't speak for anyone else.
and your buddy goes from

I said it was odd.

Now if you would please answer this.

Now while crub has been acting "strangely". why the flop after LDL calls you guys on it. I'm just having trouble here is all.

the whole rest of your two posts is a dodge.

[Glork]

If you're asking why I didn't move to CTD until after LmL's post, I've already answered that question. Pay attention.

[xyzzy]

...Glrok's defense is getting more unusual as the minutes pass. He has a pretty consistent style, and this isn't it.

[LoudmouthLee]

Unvote: CtD. Vote: Glork

[Guardian]

1.5 Days Left. The end of the... day, is nigh.

Official Vote Count #6.

xyzzy[2] (Mert, Sefer)
AutumnEvenings{AE}[2] (Stewie, CTD)
LML[2] (mneme, AE)
Crub[2] (MBL, Glork)
Glork[2] (Crub, LML)
Sefer[1] (xyzzy)

Not Voting[1] (Vendagoat)

With 12 alive, It will take 7 to Lynch.

---

Notes:

Deadline in ~35.5 hours

. At deadline, 4 votes will be required to lynch. First come, first serve, in case of a tie.

Remember, I will not be counting new votes without an unvote.

[LoudmouthLee]

Just replaced in. I've re-read, but I'm still not really feeling my feet.

That said, I understand we're under a deadline, so

vote: crub

@Mod - Mneme came into the game and made this vote

[Vendagoat]

You answered? With what? this?

Seriously. Anybody who honestly thinks that CTD and I are scum together is a complete moron.

This?

Meh. I am in no danger of being lynched. Incidentally, I would find those who tack onto the bad attack more suspect than the bad attack itself.

A question for you, LmL: What, from my end, makes you believe that I am CTD's scumbuddy? Why do you feel that his posting could be indicative of scumbuddies rather than, as I suggested earlier, a simple buddy-up tactic?

Vendagoat, I would encourage you to answr the same.

or this?

And by the way, LmL, I certainly don't think I would qualify as "excellent scum." I'd say that I've only recently broken the threshold of "decent scum." Also, as aggressive as I am when pro-town, my internal tactics are far more conservative as scum. Gambitting has never been my style.... but then again, as I don't think you've ever played a forum game with GlorkScum, I wouldn't expect you to know/believe that anyway.

So one is name calling, another is wifom and the last is a logical fallacy.

VOTE:GLORK

[Glork]

LmL: Mneme didn't unvote, though, so it didn't switch over.

Anyway, I won't be around much at all over the next two days.

Xyzzy: How many games have you played with me? How many games of mine have you read? What on earth could

possibly

suggest to you that I have a "pretty consistent" playstyle? What exactly *is* your meta towards me? How does playing differently than you're used to affect my chances of being scum?

All this game has been so far is "Make a shallow observation and decide X is scum." I will freely admit that I am guilty of such terrible tactics, but I am very unimpressed with the way D1 has progressed. Considering there can't be any crosskills, lynching scum is at an absolute premium. I would like to see significantly more input from several players, including (but not limited to) AE, MBL, Sefer, and Xyzzy. Guarantee that at least one undercontributer is scum... distinctly possibly two of them.

I would also like LmL to answer my question as to why he thinks CTD's buddying implicates me. I'm waiting, Lee.

[LoudmouthLee]

I would also like LmL to answer my question as to why he thinks CTD's buddying implicates me. I'm waiting, Lee

It's not that.. it's a bunch of things that rub me wrongly... as a short list..

And by the way, LmL, I certainly don't think I would qualify as "excellent scum." I'd say that I've only recently broken the threshold of "decent scum." Also, as aggressive as I am when pro-town, my internal tactics are far more conservative as scum.

How strikingly odd, since agressive Glork would have called CtD on his buddying. Yet, you "didn't magically notice it."

Meh. I am in no danger of being lynched.

Well, now you are. People tend to use the power of suggestion... "I'm telling you that I'm in no danger of being lynched, so the weaker players won't even bother voting me." It makes me want to fight for you lynch harder...

A question for you, LmL: What, from my end, makes you believe that I am CTD's scumbuddy? Why do you feel that his posting could be indicative of scumbuddies rather than, as I suggested earlier, a simple buddy-up tactic?

Well... I dont know if you guys are together, but the more and more I listen to you., the more and more sure I am that you (and / or CtD) is/are scum.

Actually, Unvote, Vote: Crub... there really isn't a heck of a lot to go on, but I think that CTD could serve to be useful one way or another, regardless of his alignment.

If there's ANY reason why I would think you and CtD are linked, is the quote that I just gave you. You cast a vote on Crub for NO reason besides the fact that you want to keep CtD around.

You gave no reasoning for Crub (and he already had votes on him). It looked opportunistic and... well.. scummy.

I stand by my vote.

[LoudmouthLee]

I would like to see significantly more input from several players, including (but not limited to) AE, MBL, Sefer, and Xyzzy. Guarantee that at least one undercontributer is scum... distinctly possibly two of them

I take issue with this too, Glork. Without Metagaming you WAY too much, it is fairly known that AE is without access for a few more days. It's even been SAID in the thread. How can you get blood from a stone?

Or is it the fact that AE also has vbotes and you're trying to throw some more suspicion on her?

@Mod:

Generally, when a replacement comes into a game, they are not responsible for the other person's vote. Was Meneme's vote not counted because of Wizard's previous vote?

[Glork]

[quote="LmL"How strikingly odd, since agressive Glork would have called CtD on his buddying. Yet, you "didn't magically notice it."[/quote]I didn't "magically" not notice it. I get "HAY, LET'S FOLLOW GLORK" alarmingly often because people

expect

me to "magically" find scum out of nothing. When I first saw CTD's post, I figured it was mostly a joke, so I responded with a post that was mostly a joke. The possibility of buddying-up honestly didn't even cross my mind until you mentioned it. I can't offer any further explanation than that. Either you'll choose to believe me or you will not.

Well, now you are. People tend to use the power of suggestion... "I'm telling you that I'm in no danger of being lynched, so the weaker players won't even bother voting me." It makes me want to fight for you lynch harder...

*shakes head*
It's bad tactics to try to snuff the weaker players when I'd know that the stronger players would have equal incentive to vote. If I'm scum, does it matter if I convince the new/weak players not to vote me if somebody like MBL or CTD or Mert or AE ends up putting a lynching vote on me?
No. Not at all. Bad tactics.
Incidentally, I find it deliciously ironic that you can suggest that CTD/Glork are "excellent scum" pulling a gambit while also implying that I'd make a novice play scuh as this.

Well... I dont know if you guys are together, but the more and more I listen to you., the more and more sure I am that you (and / or CtD) is/are scum.

Funny thing, that. The more I listen to you, the more obtuse and arbitrary your reasons for suspecting me. While I can accept the "lots of small things add up to something bit" explanation in general (heck, that's how I do things myself when appropriate), I'm not buying it this time around. Perhaps you're strategically trying to push a lynch on me near deadline because you know it'd eliminate the strongest player in the game other than yourself. Sadly, it ain't gonna happen, sir. I suggest you go hunt for your mislynch elsewhere.


I already stated that my reason for suspecting Crub was in the manner and timing of his vote for Xyzzy. To assert that I have not given any reason is an outright lie. If you wanted explanation of that reasoning, you could have just asked for it.
Anywho... just after CTD removed a vote from Xyzzy, putting him back down to three, Crub put a new 4th vote on Xyz with this post:

unvote

vote xyzzy

Until you start making sense

Hardly a shining example of solid pro-town reasoning... and it put the pressure

right

back on Xyzzy for what had only been a completely pointless wagon.

Less than 24 hours later, and only five posts later, Crub's next post:

You guys do realise that this day is deadlined for a little under 3 days right?

...served to remind us that there was a deadline, and we needed a lynch. If that doesn't put us in a bandwagon mentality, I don't know what will. And, considering he had just put the spotlight right back on Xyzzy, it definitely made me wonder about Crub's intentions.