Mini 480 - Boring Town Mafia *GAME OVER*

[Faeren Lord of Carlisle]

Should we no-lynch then, or should we lynch nano? I support the second possibility.

[Faeren Lord of Carlisle]

Also, if we no-lynch, then we find out whether or not boo is scum. So no-lynching may be right.

[Bookitty]

Okay. The last two posts have pointed something out to me.

One of the biggest scumtells I look for is being overly conciliatory. I was hoping that my lengthy analyses of both my suspects would elicit some sort of response that I could use to test my own theory. That didn't happen, but something else just did.

FLoC, if you are town, then Nano and I are your suspects. (Pete d can't be, even stretching the limits of what's possible, in my view. I see no reason why a scum mason would point out the possibility of his being a scum mason.)

If Nano is a cop, he's going to investigate me if we go to night. Chances are I'll die (I think rule 13, "If you do not submit a night action within a reasonable time frame, no action will occur." may have stopped the NK last night) but if I were scum, I'd have no such fears. If I were identifiable scum (i.e., not the Godfather) then I would have had to be a great fool to leave him alive to investigate me. And I couldn't guarantee that he wouldn't have investigated me, and not you.

Therefore, I'm either town, or I'm the godfather. So saying this: "Also, if we no-lynch, then we find out whether or not boo is scum. So no-lynching may be right" is absolutely an effort to please everyone. I'm town, but then Nano would be scum, and I was already pretty convinced of his guilt. We can't both be town, if you are. So first you say, I'd prefer to lynch Nano (pleasing me) and then you say we could go to no-lynch and Nano the trustworthy cop could find out "whether or not boo is scum", pleasing Nano. That would make us both innocent, wouldn't it? And then who's left?

This changes things materially for me. Why be so conciliatory, if you're certain enough that Nano is scum to put a vote on him? Why trust his investigation of me, unless you're certain Nano is town? Do you have any opinions that don't depend on the most recent argument made?

I'm thinking pete d is right, and I've been wrong. I want pete d, as the sole objective party, to look over my reasoning, and tell me if he thinks I'm reading too much into these last two posts, but this just seems an extreme level of fence-sitting to me. Definitely reason to rethink my opinion.

[Faeren Lord of Carlisle]

I'm a very indecisive player. As such, I was laying out all the options, so that better players than I can decide which course of action would be best. I personally want to lynch nano. But I need 2 other people to agree with me for action to happen. It's a draw if nothing happens. So, If the only way action is to happen, I'll have to compromise with 2 other people.

[Faeren Lord of Carlisle]

2 days without posts makes me a sad panda.

[Nocmen]

2 days without posts makes me a sad panda.

Makes me sad too. I'll check tomorrow for prods. Though also, it's a holiday weekend, so we can't complain too much.

[Bookitty]

I'm here. Waiting for pete d or Nanosauromo to weigh in. I've said my piece, and while I admit to reading and rereading the thread, I'm not coming up with anything I haven't said before.

Nano, do you have any comments on this? I asked pete d to look at my logic because I think his is the only truly objective viewpoint, but I'd like to hear from you as well.

[Nanosauromo]

UnVote

So the time has come to choose between Bookitty and FLOC. After looking back, I think I can safely make my choice.

Vote: Bookitty

There was no kill on Night 4. Since the deadline was not reached, it's safe to say that the doc and scum targeted the same person. FLOC protected pete d. Boo, hoping to kill the only confirmed townie and get me lynched on Day 5, tried to kill him.

If FLOC were scum, he would have targeted pete d, for the same reasons as I stated above for Boo. Pete's presence on the List of the Living proves that this is not true. FLOC is doc, Boo is scum.

Pete and FLOC, I hope you'll agree with me.

[pete d]

NO

Mafia can no-kill. I asked Nocmen. e.g. if FLoC was scum, he couldn't target me cos that would blow his claim, but an endgame with me in it and one other person, given my previous statements, would be pretty unwise.

@boo: I think FLoC's two posts you're talking about have a similar tone to previous "nothing" posts. The suggestion that we could find out "whether or not boo is scum" I've repeatedly refuted, those couple of posts are either scummy or misguided / not paying attention. I find the first one pretty scummy, together they seem a bit off, but then Nano has also said some misguided stuff. The difference with Nano is that he seems to have strength in his convictions, he's said something and then voted accordingly, compare that to FLoC's two posts.

[Bookitty]

On the thought that dead men can tell SOME tales, some analysis on Haschel Cedricson, now known scum:

I'm not on the Faeren/banana wagon for two reasons: I really don't like what little play luna has given us, and I'm not going to run up a replacement for the shady actions of a predecessor, particularly not when the wagon has grown large at a fairly significant speed. Don't get me wrong, I'm going to be watching Faeren closely, but I'm also wary of luna and IH, so I'm not comfortable with voting for Faeren yet.

When FLoC was near a lynch: "Wait a minute, this looks like an attempt to get pressure off of you and onto Daxam." followed by a vote on FLoC. Scum afraid not to be on this wagon?

Unvotes at the doc claim.

Looking back at everyone playing this game, I thought that Nanosauromo had been replaced, but I realized that he's still playing. In fact, he responded to every prod, ensuring that he not get replaced. However, look at his opinions about the masonry, FLoC, and the recent analysis of Daxam by setael. Oh, wait, you CAN'T look at his opinions because HE HASN'T POSTED ANY.

(followed by a vote for Nano.)

Right. I tend to follow the doctrine that the third person on a bandwagon might be scum and the fourth person on a bandwagon probably is scum. Unfortunately, our third Daxam vote was FLoC, who is our claimed doctor, and the fourth vote was Adam, our confirmed mason. Now, I'm surprised that FLoC is still alive, since usually doc's can't self-protect, so IGMEOY, FLoC.

Vote: heatherlou for putting Daxam at -1 so quickly, as her vote looked like bandwagon-hopping to me.

(I replaced heatherlou)

These posts are almost exactly why I voted Nano at the end of the last day; just as soon as all the interesting stuff went down, Nano stopped saying anything to help make sense of things.

Heather and Nano are my two top suspects, although it is suspicious that FLoC is still alive. Damn, WIFOM is hard.

Anyhoo, I would like to hear everyone else's thoughts on heather and Nano, as they seem to be the two best bets for today.

It doesn't look like heather is going to be lynched, but that's okay, because Nano was my second choice anyways.

Votes Nano. Unvotes after the cop claim.

Moves on to FaerieLord with this:

My main three suspects have been you, Nano, and heather. Nano claimed cop, and heather probably won't be here before deadline. That leaves you.

To me, this looks like Haschel distancing from FLoC and actually pushing a case on Nano. So from that reread, I'd be voting FLoC. I'll do Yagami next.

[Bookitty]

Yagami is harder to pry any opinions from. But here's what I gleaned:

Hand Banana, I think that claim is on the fringes of WIFOM, he had no reason to lie to us if he was town, but if he was scum, then he could have claimed anything so as not to make the game harder for his partners.

(FLoC replaced Hand Banana.)

In other news, Heather, your last two posts were a vote on Hand Banana for not talking much, then saying that you admit that you need to be more active. Any reason keeping your vote on Hand Banana, I mean Haut Boy, Inarticulation, Lunalovegood, and you have posted less, plus, at the time there were better reasons to vote, such as Daxam putting someone at -2.

(I replaced Heatherlou.)

Questions Adam the Amazing's (pete d, now) vote on hand banana (FLoC):

Um, you've never voiced any thoughts or suspicions about Handbanana, you've never even mentioned his name until this post, so why are you voting him?

Points out his top three suspects:

Well, Simenon, right now my top three are...
1)IH for what seems to be a Random FoS of a claimed Mason.
2)HandBanana/Farren, for saying he 100% believes the mason claim, and contradicting it with his wondering on why no one questioned the claim (I still do).
3)Heatherlou, though Adam thinks she is playing town, I still don't like her post were she says she likes Daxam for putting the L-2 vote and giving us something to talk about, given that we were talking about it being scummy.

Then consoles FLoC with this:

Your not scummy for anything you did, your scummy for your predecessors actions. There is a point where he said he is 100% sure, and another where he wonders why no one questioned it.

Votes IH:

I'm not on Faeren/banana, but have already commented on it. Also, I'm voting IH because, like I said, I don't like his FoS, without reason, but this is only temporary (until he posts if I like it). And yes, I know he said he would post this week and the week isn't up yet, which is why this is temporary.

Argues a wishywashy case for FLoC:

First, there are three possibly outed Townies, you, AtA, and Faeren. None of them are for sure, until someone dies. You and AtA are definately the most confirmed, but there is still a possibility that you two are scum. Now, Faeren claimed doc, so he may be scum, and that's why he wasn't killed, or they may be tryimng to frame him so we lynch him. With the knowledge of a possible doc, I don't think the scum would go after a claimed mason, because of the doc WIFOM of being protected. So we don't necessarily know if any of that is true.

And this looks bad for FLoC:

Samruc, why are you going after the claimed doc? We really should do as Setael said, and give him a couple days before we decide he isn't.

But then defends Nano when his investigation choice is questioned, albeit weakly.

I agree with TCS about Setael's plan and Nanos, because I think I would investigate one of the Masons, because with both of them claimed no one looked twice at them except me (or so I thought). It is possible for both of you to have been scum TCS, and with you both agreeing, no one would have wanted to lynch the masons, and you could have made it fairly far had you been scum. About Setael's plan, that wouldn't help solve wether he is scum or not because like TCS said, the scum could find it if he were telling the truth, and NK the person, should he be scum, he only has to point it out to his scum mates, and they could decide if they want to let the person live (say he investigated one of them and came up innocent), or kill them and have another investigation on a dead town.

Tries to push for Nano's lynch in preference to his own.

Even though Samruc is second on my list, I have no case for him (and would actually prefer him to live) or bookitty. Right now I agree that it is probably best to lynch someone who is not claimed, but the most scummy to me right now is Nanos, our claimed cop. Which is why I'm not posting a case on him.

His comments on FLOC in a pbpa:

As for Faeren, everything comes from who he replace, HB. The first thing is post 146, after the second quote. Brushing off what Simenon said with the comment about him making stuff up, when Simenon had quoted posts then asked questions/made comments about them. Also, his next post (post 180) where he doesn't even want to read Simenon's post because he is confirmed town. Seems to me that Scum wouldn't want to read them because hey wnt to find scummy behavoir in town that they can lynch, where the town is going to want to know what the confirmed thinks just as much as anyone else if not more (because as confirmed it is known to not be someone trying to remove town). With Faeren himself, nothing really stands out except his doc claim. I personally believe you should give a little leeway to a person, holding them to their predecessors actions, but not as strongly.

And Nano:

Nanos, the last of the people to cover. Up until he claims he lurked. He lurked so bad at one point that he quotes and comments on the mason claim, then his next post he doesn't remeber it. Lurking is not scummy in it's own right, but it does make it hard to get a town or scum read on the person. I'm suspicious of him because both of his targets have wound up dead. It is possible he was unlucky, but it is awfully unlucky. One thing I just noticed though, if he is cop, then he might be naive, as he got innocent with both results.

The dying words of a scum:

And on a serious note, my last word of advice. After I'm gone, look closely at the two claimed unconfirmed. They seem more likely scum compared to Samruc and Boo, and definitely compared to TCS and Setael.

Trying to present us with WIFOM.

And this:

Actually, Samruc's plan makes sense. I think enough of us believe either FLoC or Nano are lying. But something not mentioned Samruc, D4 is going to have more or less the same problem regardless of the plan chosen. The only difference is that in your's, he may give a guilty or innocent result on me instead of you or Boo. The thing is, I feel only one of them has fake-claimed, not both, and that we have one scum in the unclaimed as well.

Warning against leaving Nano alive, so far as I can figure, because he'll give false investigation results on us to win the game for scum.

Hmmm, all of this points to FLoC. None of it really points to Nano, though Yagami avoided speaking to Nano for a long time, which sometimes is a tell. Still, I'm going to admit I was probably wrong about Nano. Which makes me sad, because he keeps voting for me, but I think I'm going to have to

unvote; vote FLoC

I'm still willing for no-lynch if that's what others think is best, but this is the best use of my vote right now, I think.

[pete d]

vote: Faeren

. What say you, Nano?

[Faeren Lord of Carlisle]

I obviously disagree with this case. I'll side with nano here. You're the only uncleared, I don't care how town you are.

vote bookitty

[Nocmen]

Vote Count!

FLoC - 2 (Bookitty, Pete d)
Bookitty -2 (Nanosauromo, FLoC)

4 alive, 3 to lynch.

[Nanosauromo]

It all comes down to this. Either Pete d moves, or I do. If we lynch a townie, we lose. I belive that the remaining scum is Bookitty, so unless one of you can fully convince me that FLOC is scum, my vote stays where it is.

[Bookitty]

Why do you believe I am scum, Nano? I'd like to hear your case against me. I think I've built a pretty good case against FLoC, and as yet no one has built any case against me (even based on Heatherlou's actions, some of which I found pretty questionable).

So, what has convinced you so thoroughly that I'm scum? I've built my cases and put them up here, to be picked apart and analysed. I would like to see your case against me, if such exists.

[Bookitty]

Additionally, I've said I'm willing for no-lynch, if that's the only solution to this impasse, so that you can investigate me. You'll find that I'm town (and probably dead, but I don't mind that so much) but if I survive, then you'll be in the same position of knowing there's a godfather in the game, which I think is the reasonable assumption anyway, and making your decision at that point. So if it's just that you haven't investigated me yet, I'd be happy to submit to that.

Fair enough?

[Nanosauromo]

Pete d can't possibly be scum, and I'm fairly confidant that FLOC is town. Thus, you're the only person left.

You'll find that I'm town (and probably dead, but I don't mind that so much) but if I survive, then you'll be in the same position of knowing there's a godfather in the game

Now that I think about it, going to night is pointless. If you weren't innocent/GF, then I highly doubt you'd risk saying that. Additionally, the scum wouldn't let me live through the night.

If you were a vanilla scum, you would kill me so my investigation results couldn't be made public. If FLOC were, he'd kill me and pin the blame on you.

Pete, any input?

[Nanosauromo]

AND ANOTHER THING:
Look back to Day 3, when Yagaimi was still alive.

Now I'm fairly certain that Yagami is scum. If he was innocent, the real scum would have hammered him by now.

Either that or the two remaining scum are already voting for him. (i.e., Setael and Bookitty)

Yagami turned out to be scum. Setael was town. What say you, Bookitty?

[Bookitty]

I'm vanilla town. I've said so repeatedly. What's your case against me, Nano?

Yagami WAS scum. I pushed the case on Yagami, remember that? Why would I have done that, when I could have pushed a case on Samruc just as easily, using the same logic? You presented it as either or (Yagami is scum, OR scum was voting for him) so why are you changing that now just to make an accusation out of it?

I told you already that an investigation on me was pointless, Nano. I made the same argument that you now have reached about investigation-vulnerable scum not leaving you alive last night. I don't understand why you're currently so certain I'm scum, without any evidence, but I KNOW you're not scum, because if you were you would have hammered FLoC and won the game. So stop, look at the cases presented, and think about it.

If you truly think I'm scum, then you're just wrong. I've done my best for town, and if that isn't enough evidence on my behalf, then I can't magically produce more. At least I'm sure I'm voting correctly now. You just proved it to me, as I said, because you'd have hammered and won if you weren't town.

You're not getting my vote no matter what. Pete d isn't getting my vote no matter what. So FLoC is scum, and I'm sure of it now.

If there's something specific you want answered, I'll happily do so. But I can't answer a non-case on me. I've made my case on FLoC, and I invite you to make yours on me.

confirm vote: FLoC

[pete d]

Now I'm fairly certain that Yagami is scum. If he was innocent, the real scum would have hammered him by now.

Either that or the two remaining scum are already voting for him. (i.e., Setael and Bookitty)

Yagami WAS SCUM. Therefore the second part of your either / or statement is invalid as it assumes that Yagami was innocent.

I say again: MAFIA CAN NO-KILL. If Faeren killed Nano or boo, he'd get lynched by me given my previous statements. Therefore, he no-killed last night.

Nano, please look over my arguments against Faeren. Now we presumably know you are not scum, it's either Faeren or boo. Faeren was completely silent on the Yagamiscum wagon. Yagami and HC were both hesitant to wagon Faeren. The claim is completely overpowered for the town if your claim is to be believed.

Nano: Tell me why you think FLoC is innocent and boo is scum.

[Nanosauromo]

Fuck, I read that wrong. Disregard my last post.

Unvote

I'm not sure what to think anymore. Pete presents a good argument, plus he's thoe only one I know I can trust, so I'm unvoting for now.

FLOC, if you can't convince pete (and re-convince me) of Boo's guiltiness within a reasonable time, then I'm hammering you.

[Nanosauromo]

Ah, screw it.

Vote: FLOC

[Faeren Lord of Carlisle]

Bah. I was indeed scum. I was screwed over by handbannana. We were doing great until haschel got vigged, then his connections to yagami ####ed him over.
Meh, I didn't play well though.

[Haschel Cedricson]

I'm sorry, team. This was my first time playing online as Mafia, and I did a craptacular job of it. I couldn't think of any arguments against other players that made sense, and when Setael announced intent to vig me, I knew I was done for.

Bookitty's pbpa on me was surprising; I didn't think I had been that obvious about tying myself to FLoC.