Open 41-Quicklynch Nightless GAME OVER!, before 492

[ryan]

"And the votes come in" Vote Count

(3) kaosfere (DeathSauce, Khelvaster, IH)

Not Voting: Jdodge, kaosfere, scmp, paradoxombie, rj20876, groinhammer, Sir Tornado, Adam the Amazing

With 11 alive it takes 4 to lynch

[ryan]

rj20876 has been given a prod.

[Sir Tornado]

I agree with IH. I will hammer Kaosfere if he doesn't reply my last post within in 24 (more) hours.

AtA: It is "

She

who was lynched"... not "He"

[MCHammer]

FOS: IH

although may be coming across proactive 'cando'ness, I'm seeing the super quick voting/wagon-jumping as scummy a whole lot more than not.

p.s. could someone give me a translation on

IGMEO

- couldn't spy it in the wiki

kaosfere wrote:

But even should that occur, we will still have more "lives",

This seems to me to be insinuating that it doesn't matter if a few townies die b/c we have so many to start with. I think I'm going to have to hear a pretty good explanation from kaosfere for me not to vote for you at this point (this is assuming someone else doesn't hammer you first).

I'm thinking kaosfere is scum here & IH is sacrificing him so that suspicion is removed from himself due to the lynch participation

[kaosfere]

I don't get this. If you are claiming to be a townie, why did you hammer someone without a proper reasoning?

I had proper reasoning, which I have now fully explained above. At this point anyone who fails to see it isn't going to, I'm afraid.

Hammer away. After you kill me, put in a little thought and you should be able to figure out who the real scum are.

[IH]

You can FoS me all you want, but the reasoning stands. If we allow Kaosfere to live, we are giving scum a very important tool in this game.

[Sir Tornado]

I don't get this. If you are claiming to be a townie, why did you hammer someone without a proper reasoning?

I had proper reasoning, which I have now fully explained above. At this point anyone who fails to see it isn't going to, I'm afraid.

Hammer away. After you kill me, put in a little thought and you should be able to figure out who the real scum are.

That was your actual reasoning for lynching her? Well, then, let's see...

Town still has more lives than scum, and will even if I get lynched. DA's reckless play was disconcerting. I believe that given enough time and rope, scum will self-identify, and I'd rather see us have more time for arguments so that the scum can out themselves than end up with truly discordian actions throwing the dialogue for a complete loop.

Of course the town has more lives than the scum. That is the whole point of this game. I really don't think DA's play was reckless actually. It was a bit silly, yes, and it was confusing for me; but she did not cause the town any actual damage by self voting. But you, sir by hammering her on page 2 caused an awful lot of damage. I don't think the scum would "self-identify" if we go on playing the way we have right now, with all the self voting, early hammering, a strong dose of WIFOM logic.

I look at it this way. The most fundamental aspect of the game is in townies trying to ferret out scum, while the scum are attempting to hide their identities. Scum have something to hide. Townies, barring edge cases, have nothing to hide. It would take an incredibly talented scum to maintain a perfect townie facade for an indeterminate length of time.

The first part is the general game theory which you have got correct. However, I don't think it would take an "incredibly talented scum" to win this game for them. This is an open game, and open games tend to be rather balanced.

DA claimed he voted for himself in an attempt to demonstrate his point: that scum would hammer him even in this game. As such, if a townie, he was offering himself for sacrifice in order to cast heavy suspicion upon those who hammered him -- clearly in the expectation that some scummer would be stupid enough to pull the trigger, be instantly lynched, and keep scum from hammering for the rest of the game.

The flaw with this logic is that he's right: only an idiotic scum would hammer in this position. All that would have to be done would be for them not to cast the lynching vote, and it would appear as if DA had been proven wrong -- all scum would now be in much less danger when hammering. Allowing this to happen would clearly be detrimental to the town.

This is a very bad reasoning. Hammering isn't actually a scum-tell in this game. Hammering for crappy reasons is. You hammered DA for crappy reasons (which is what I feel this is). No one hammering DA would not have meant that scum would never hammer -- I don't believe ANYONE (except possibly you) would believe that. What would put the scum in danger is hammering for silly reasons, or leading a bandwagon which is clearly opportunistic in nature, or for anomalies in reasoning/behavior, contradictory statements and actions, or for leading a very anti-town agenda, and lots of other things that you can't actually state, but you know when you actually encounter them.

The only scum who would have hammered DA would, indeed be a very stupid scum. No hammer on DA would not have meant that scum won't hammer anytime in the game. It would only mean that scum weren't stupid.

The only beneficial outcome, at that point, would be and some idiot scum did off him, which would not take any heat off the scum. Against this, there were two possibilities: DA was a scum, and would live, clearly a negative. Or, he was innocent and I could cast the killing vote, which would definitely not be as positive, but would be alot less negative than allowing scum to prove him wrong. The absolute worst case scenario would be that DA gets lynched and an innocent party gets lynched the next day. But even should that occur, we will still have more "lives", as noted above, and by that point remaining townies should have a very good idea who is or isn't scummy, based on what's been posted in the discussion that would be sure to ensue.

Or, you miss the third outcome: Some person (probably scum) makes a slip, we move on from DA to that person. I wonder why you did not consider this possibility. That would be certainly positive, wouldn't it?

And, if you are town, you should sit back and reflect on exactly what you have done. You have handed the scum a free pass through 2 days. Of course, we have more lives. But, is wasting away "lives" really a good play, in any game? And, FTR, I really have no idea who is really scum and who isn't right now.

[Paradoxombie]

Okay, this is stupid. The simple fact is, unless Kaosfere is scum, we're back to square one.

Vote:Kaosfere

[ryan]

"Another one bites the dust" Vote Count

(4) kaosfere (DeathSauce, Khelvaster, IH, Paradoxombie)

Not Voting: Jdodge, kaosfere, scmp, rj20876, groinhammer, Sir Tornado, Adam the Amazing

(A very quiet night as kaosfere walks down main street and suddenly a mob rushes him)

A voice rings out: We've got you scum!!!

kaosfere: Wait a second I'm just a............

(The town doesn't allow him to finish as he's strung up and quickly hung. An insepection of kaosfere's pockets reveal a harmonica, a yo-yo and a book "How to lynch a mafia member in 10 Days")

kaosfere was a TOWNIE

With 10 alive it takes 4 to lynch

[IH]

Ok. Now that should make it clear. Any other speed lynches will be dealt with as such.

[DeathSauce]

We need to take a deep breath here or we'll lose this game in 6 pages. I certainly did not expect kaosfere to go down so quickly. The worst part is that we really have not learned much. The only thing that absolutely stands out is that Khelvaster and IH were in on both lynches.

Obviously I thought kaosfere was scum, too, so I can't really fault them for voting for him. Still, the chances of 2 players out of 12 being in on two quicklynches are kinda slim, I think.

FoS: IH and Khelvaster

[IH]

Mmk Deathsauce.

First of all DA wanted to test it out. She called out the policy about quicklynches (which I am still unsure why.)

Kaosfere then violated it by hammering. For some unknown reason he also felt the need to test the policy.

Now discussion should theoretically be able to go on unhindered by random speedlynches. Town should not do it regardless. Scum will be discouraged by it, as they will be lynched.

I didn't expect we'd have to lynch someone to get this through someones head, but with the special voting rules of this game, I felt after someone hammered, we should instill this even more.

[Adam The Amazing]

Well, this is just a nice little learning strategy, seems like.

IGMEOY, Khelvaster!

(means I got my eye on you)

Although, I've got to say I've never before read IH being condescending or sarcastic, this is a new thing to see.

[IH]

I'm not trying to be condescending = ( I'm trying to explain why something happened.

I'm also very annoyed someone actually made the play that they did.

Though you've never seen me be sarcastic?

[Adam The Amazing]

Not in the other games I've read of yours (and the one we played in... although that was a newbie game, so maybe you didn't want to be snarky).

[Sir Tornado]

Ok, I seem to have missed something... why are IH and Khelvaster on the scumdar of a few people? Can someone please state the case against them?

[IH]

Well I try not to be sarcastic in newbie games, because they take you too seriously.

Here I was being neither though. ;_;

[ryan]

Gatorguy91 replaces rj20876

[DeathSauce]

Ok, I seem to have missed something... why are IH and Khelvaster on the scumdar of a few people? Can someone please state the case against them?

I wouldnt go so far as calling it a

case

, I'm just calling it

suspicious

that we have had 2 lynches in a very short amount of time, and 2 players in this game are 50% responsible for them.

The votes for Discordian -

IH, Khelvaster

, discordian, kaosfere
The votes for kaosfere - me,

Khelvaster, IH

, paradoxombie

[Gatorguy91]

Hi all. I agree with DS, IH and khelvaster are suspscious, but i think that the scum might want to take a stand back and watch approach and WIFOM their way to victory in a game as so.

FoS: IH, and FoS: Deathsauce

[JDodge]

Are we trying to set records for quickest lynches?

I feel any meta-policy that states someone MUST be lynched if x happens is scummy in and of itself. I also find it somewhat odd that nobody has gone after Paradox after he hammered a townie in much the same way kaos did, so I'm going to

FoS: IH and Paradoxombie

.

[IH]

JD. Now look at the situation. Now look at the precedent that has been set. So we should let people who speedlynch live? Just wondering where you're coming from there.

Also, I feel that Deathsauce is most definitely stating raw facts, but not looking at the situation. He has pretty much ignored what happened.

I'm also unsure about JD and Gatorguy.

Vote:Deathsauce

[MCHammer]

I wouldnt go so far as calling it a case, I'm just calling it suspicious that we have had 2 lynches in a very short amount of time, and 2 players in this game are 50% responsible for them.

Wouldn’t you call that looking at the situation? I think you’re just trying to start another wagon (seeing as how twitchy everyone seems in this game)

I agreed with the reasoning, but post 55: the thing is, you didn’t actually respond to my FOS on you, apart from to be slightly churlish a/b it…& now I see you seeming to do the same thing that I accused you of! In a game where people are getting lynched _way_ too quick – that is why I’m freaking out over you.

I wouldn't consider anyone hammering DA to be scum atm

So you were assuming that the kaosfere was pro town – isn’t this like a major scumtell???

[DeathSauce]

Also, I feel that Deathsauce is most definitely stating raw facts, but not looking at the situation. He has pretty much ignored what happened.

Are you saying it

isn't

suspicious that you and Khelvaster both happened to be on quicklynch wagons? Are you trying to make us go through this whole WIFOM argument again? I can not believe the pace of this game, there is no reason for us to be down two players on page three, and two players in this game hold the majority of the responsibility for that.

Wouldn’t you call that looking at the situation? I think you’re just trying to start another wagon (seeing as how twitchy everyone seems in this game)

Maybe I just have a different interpretation of the word 'case', to me it implies certainty. Yes, I am trying to start a wagon, that is how I hunt scum, I look at thier behavior and I build a case against them. But, I have specifically stated that everyone needs to "take a deep breath", in other words, stop being so "twitchy". That is why my vote is not on anyone at the moment.

[MCHammer]

Apologies - my post 72 was actually aimed almost completely at

IH

rather than DeathSauce - thought I'd included that when typing, but there was alot of cut+paste going on & I think the first line or two might have gotten cut & then never pasted.

Incidentally, the due to the twitchyness of this, that's exactly why I haven't laid any votes yet also