Mini 496 - Wild West Mafia. Mod Abandoned

[SirWario]

Theres definitely no bandwagon on Twomz at the moment. If thats considered a bandwagon, then 7 other people also have bandwagons on him. Though, suggesting a No Lynch can lead to an easy wagon that scum will eagerly join to draw suspicion elsewhere.

[pdcakes]

godofwine: that sentence was my fault. i meant to say if we were just going to vote for a random player than why dont we just vote adam. it would probably provide us with more information than just killing a random player.

like if it turns out to be false and we killed a townie then at least we would know not to trust the notes.

but if it turns out he is scum then hey we killed scum.

the way i see it it provides a little more information then just a straight up random vote. but thats only if the other option is to pick a random player

[Twomz]

If the notes were dualistic (is that even a word?) in nature than i might agree with...

like if it turns out to be false and we killed a townie then at least we would know not to trust the notes.

but if it turns out he is scum then hey we killed scum.

But, since we don't know if there's just 2 clear cut choices, and since we just have 1 note, there's no reason to test it yet. Even if Adam is scum, that doesn't say that the note(s) are 100% accurate, it may be a scum ploy to sacrifice a player day 1, then they'll say Mafia member #2 is innocent, then random townie 1 is guilty and by that point in the game it may be enough to sway the votes away from the rest of the mafia and give them the 2 or 3 mislynches they need to win.

[curiouskarmadog]

If the notes were dualistic (is that even a word?) in nature than i might agree with...

like if it turns out to be false and we killed a townie then at least we would know not to trust the notes.

but if it turns out he is scum then hey we killed scum.

But, since we don't know if there's just 2 clear cut choices, and since we just have 1 note, there's no reason to test it yet. Even if Adam is scum, that doesn't say that the note(s) are 100% accurate, it may be a scum ploy to sacrifice a player day 1, then they'll say Mafia member #2 is innocent, then random townie 1 is guilty and by that point in the game it may be enough to sway the votes away from the rest of the mafia and give them the 2 or 3 mislynches they need to win.

I do not actually buy this. I am not saying I think the letter is scummy or noble, but if it is scummy I do not think it is scummy for these reasons. Really the "ploy" would only work once. Lets says we end up lynching Adam one day and he is scum and we fall into this "mafia trap"...the next day the mafia leaves a note with a townie's name on it...we lynch that guy and he turns out town....we would no longer believe the notes...I do not think the mafia would trade one of it's members for just one townie..

hmmm...

.....Ok, as I was rereading your post (in the preview), I see your point...the next note could say "x" is town, we would believe the note and look over that person, so it could possibly lead to 2-3 mislynches....

like I said, we should see what tomorrow brings. We should treat Day 1 like every other Day 1 in this game...Adam should fall under the same amount of suspicion (no more no less) that everyone else has to...he should be judged on his actions not this note (YET!) That also means if he displays scum type behavior "today"...he should be lynched like the rest of us.

[GodOfWine]

I agree with you wholeheartedly curiouskarmadog. What I was trying to get across to pdcakes was that we really shouldn't single Adam out unless his behavior warrants it. The note should not buy him a free pass thru Day1 nor should it cause an automatic lynch.

[Adam The Amazing]

Drat, and I was hoping for a free pass!

In all actuality, though, I read the daybreak post and thought, "I'm going to be dead on page one." I'm glad I was wrong.

If nothing else than a misleading note, it sure is a conversation starter! eek.

Other than that, my behavior... I haven't posted a lot in this game (this is only the fourth and we're on the fourth page now), and I hope to rectify that a tad. I'm not a big fan of the one-liners that have no substance to them, and I feel that I have been doing a bit of contributing, substance-wise.

IMO, putting pressure on people who are saying to trust the note isn't a bad call (specifically pdcakes). I just say this because I believe that A) they wrote the letter, B) they're scum, or C) all of the above. Voting me rather than a random player would only lead to confusion D2, plus I don't believe any lynches in this game are really going to be 'random.'

the way i see it it provides a little more information then just a straight up random vote. but thats only if the other option is to pick a random player

What I don't like about this is he's trying to push a lynch because the only other option is to select "at random." I've said how I feel about this, and there's one more thing in this post that bothers me. It's sounding like he's implying that he wants a cop to come out and give us what's known as "concrete" information. This isn't really scummy, IMO, he's not asking for it to happen now and he's not rolefishing. What I'm getting from it is that he doesn't like the idea of a random vote and he'd gladly go with the cop. Barring that happening, I'm the next best bet.
@Pdcakes: is this interpretation right, or am I seeing more than is there?

[pdcakes]

adam you are seeing more than is there. all i am saying in my post is

IF

(this is the key word here) people were going to vote at random wouldnt it make more sense to lynch you?

I dont want to lynch you because i personally suspect the note was left by mafia but if it came down to just randomly lynching someone at least lynching you would give us some sort of information. (if the note is true then we killed scum. IT DOESNT MEAN we have to listen to a note on day 2(if there is a new note). If it isnt true then we just pretend like we are playing without the notes because we cant trust them. and i know this could lead to whoever leaving the notes to putting a true statement in there hoping we disregard it but if the first note comes out false lets ignore the notes entirely and make our own decisions).

And adam I hadnt even considered a cop coming out and giving information AT ALL. I hope this clears up confusion

[GodOfWine]

Okay, I think I have realized what the general problem is here. At least it would explain the confusion between me and pdcakes.

Pdcakes, it's not that I don't understand what you are trying to say (if we were going to end up voting randomly, then why not just vote Adam because there would be at least some reason for it) but I just don't AGREE with it. What I am saying is that Adam hasn't done anything to protect or condemn himself yet, so it would only be counter-productive to lynch because of the note.

I think it is just a clash of two irreconcilable theories.

[Paradoxombie]

I see some significance to the fact that Twomz was not bandwagoned for suggesting a No-Lynch. I'd think any decent scum would jump on that instantly. Although I suppose the fact that there wasn't much of a bandwagon to jump on might've contributed to scum's decision not to go for it, it is also possible that it's because Twomz is scum himself. He's said it himself that he's been lynched in other games for his pro-no-lynch stance where he was townie, what makes this game different? I think overall it's a pretty solid tell.
I think I'll upgrade my FoS, but I don't plan to vote on just this.

HoS: Twomz

[Twomz]

Para, is the palm of your Hand of Suspicion up, down, or sideways?

[Paradoxombie]

Facing up, but tilted forward, I'd say. Fingers spread.

[Twomz]

I accept your age old gesture of showing me you have no weapon in your hand (or if was your left, no shield, showing that your defenses are down) and offer my own act of nonaggression.

<3

(Fingers are more aggressive than hands )

[curiouskarmadog]

(blink blink)

get a room

[Aimee]

I see some significance to the fact that Twomz was not bandwagoned for suggesting a No-Lynch. I'd think any decent scum would jump on that instantly. Although I suppose the fact that there wasn't much of a bandwagon to jump on might've contributed to scum's decision not to go for it, it is also possible that it's because Twomz is scum himself. He's said it himself that he's been lynched in other games for his pro-no-lynch stance where he was townie, what makes this game different? I think overall it's a pretty solid tell.
I think I'll upgrade my FoS, but I don't plan to vote on just this.

HoS: Twomz

Actually, if he does it in all games, it isn't a tell at all.

[ryan]

You've been pretty quiet (especially for you) hiding something?

[Paradoxombie]

I see some significance to the fact that Twomz was not bandwagoned for suggesting a No-Lynch. I'd think any decent scum would jump on that instantly. Although I suppose the fact that there wasn't much of a bandwagon to jump on might've contributed to scum's decision not to go for it, it is also possible that it's because Twomz is scum himself. He's said it himself that he's been lynched in other games for his pro-no-lynch stance where he was townie, what makes this game different? I think overall it's a pretty solid tell.
I think I'll upgrade my FoS, but I don't plan to vote on just this.

HoS: Twomz

Actually, if he does it in all games, it isn't a tell at all.

When I said I felt it was a pretty solid tell, it was in relation to the lack of any significant backlash to Twomz suggesting a no-lynch.

[Adam The Amazing]

Well, that interaction was... interesting, to say the least.

My bad on the over-analyzing, pdcakes. It just seems like you're the only one who's still talking about following the note, and I wonder why. I understand your stance on it, but like GOW, I don't really agree with it. Since I like living, this seems understandable.

[Twomz]

Putting out alternate tactics and ideas isn't a scum tell... trying to quelch innovative and out of the box thinking by labeling it "anti-town" regardless of how good or bad it is for the town is a scum tell... at least imo.

Suggesting something different, new, or high risk shouldn't be looked down on... doing the same thing every game and being completely predictable should .

Besides, it's irrelevant, I included it on a list of 4 or 5 other options, because I was trying to think up all the different approaches for the current situation... I never pushed for it, nor did I backlash when other people shot down the idea. I only wanted us to keep the option open... now that I know that even if I think it is the best option (which I don't right now, I'm just saying "Hypothetically") it probably wouldn't go through, so I gave up on it.


BTW, if you do want to attack me... making a case based on the idea that OTHER PEOPLE DID NOT ATTACK ME is probably a bad place to start.


I'll try to do a full reread sometime tomorrow and see if anything big jumps out (it shouldn't take that long with 4 pages, possibly 5 by tomorrow).

[GodOfWine]

BTW, if you do want to attack me... making a case based on the idea that OTHER PEOPLE DID NOT ATTACK ME is probably a bad place to start.

I didn't see why what Para was saying was so stupid. I do find it weird that after everyone had the impression you were pushing for a No-Lynch (Im not saying you actually did see?), that hardly anyone jumped on you about it. Either the scum thought that would be too small of a wagon to actually get away unnoticed, or that you are scum, so the scum knew not to jump on you.

Personally I don't really find Twomz that scummy right now, but I think we can learn something about the mafia from what Para was saying. I know I run the risk of over-speculating here, but the failure of a wagon against Twomz's No-Lynch might mean we are dealing with a more cautious than aggressive mafia.

And just to clarify (because I see where it got Twomz) these are not my beliefs. These are just possibilities that have not been disproved, thus still have to be considered.

[SirWario]

Using the argument "I'm suspicious of you for people not attacking you for it" to attack someone is stupid to me.

[GodOfWine]

You took that out of context SirWario. So you're saying that it is entirely normal for someone who proposes a No-Lynch on Day 1 not to suffer a wagon. I think thats unusual. But I'm also not accusing anyone. I was just trying to use what we've got to get as much information as possible.

[GodOfWine]

suggesting a No Lynch can lead to an easy wagon that scum will eagerly join to draw suspicion elsewhere.

[Adele]

Either the scum thought that would be too small of a wagon to actually get away unnoticed, or that you are scum, so the scum knew not to jump on you.

Or

the scum decided not to jump on him so that he'd appear scummy for the reasons covered. If you follow. My point is that the whole thing's vulnerable to wifom.

I think that arguments flawed but not ridiculous, so it itself is also a null tell.

Oh, hello, mr square one. How have you been?

[SirWario]

Just because I said it "can lead" to a wagon doesn't mean it has to. I never said its entirely normal. I was just saying that I don't like paradox's argument against Twomz. You shouldn't have a case against someone for others no having a case against that same person.

Anyway, Twomz was just saying it was one of the options(which I don't agree with). He wasn't really pushing for a No Lynch, so there was really no need for a wagon.

[Twomz]

Dear Adele... I drank all the wine, it is no longer in front of me. Everything is clear to me now!!! If just a little bit hazy... and why does SirWario have 3 heads? *hic