8:4 Vanilla Nightless [TM2015] - GAME OVER

[ooba]

Ooba has arrived!

What's up gentle folk?

[ooba]

Hi ooba!

Once again I am conftown and you are not!

You have some time to convince us why we shouldn't lynch you to high heavens!!

This is easy.

I'm town.

[ooba]

ooba!

I am town!

The epic re-read will reveal all!

[ooba]

Votecount 2.17

Kagami (2) - Zar, ZZZX
Pirate Mollie (2) - Sotty7, wgeurts
Nachomamma8 (2) - Albert B. Rampage, Metal Sonic
Sotty (2) - Nachomamma8, GreyICE
GreyICE (1) - Pirate Mollie


Not Voting (2) - Kagami, Ooba

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

Deadline is 4/18 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-18 18:00:00).

I'm reading far too slowly for my own liking right now. MS is my only strong town read at around page 18.

I didn't like Silver Wolf and Kagami's posting is also distinctly different in tone from the Touhou game we played.

[ooba]

ZZZX is NOT confirmed town.

Agree with this.

ZZZX posting rates are 10x from the town games I've played with him. Not to mention tone\seriousness etc. This could be just because it's team Mafia and the playlist, but there's no particular push\post so far that's made me go 'Town'.

[ooba]

Hey Seraphim! I think you're the person in my scumpool that I'm wrong about!

What do you think of Kagami and Sotty votes?

At 28 now.

I'm sorry - but there's no way that Nacho's scum this game.

Kagami\Sotty\???\???

(Probably wgeurts for that Nacho vote)

[ooba]

What makes you so

sure

?

Posting. And his suspicions.

This is where I am right now: Sotty\Kagami and 2 from {Zar, Wgeu, Mollie}

Nacho-scum would have never pushed Sotty\Kagami\Zar.

---

^Pedit: Agreed that the Nacho wagon {ABR, MS} is town. But it's also wrong.

[ooba]

My entire team agrees Nacho is scum. There's no lone wolf tunnel vision with blinders on in this game. We are all getting feedback in the background.

Have you discussed who's scum with Nacho?

[ooba]

Ok. Done with Day 1. Here are my thoughts:

- Kagami, Sotty, Eddie, Zar literally just lurked out the end of the day
- Kagami used GreyIce suspicion as a crutch to literally comment on nothing else throughout the entire day.
- This is similar to wgeurt's MS suspicion at the start of the game - but his play improved as the day continued - I liked the Kagami vote when Hoopla's wagon looked like it might die down.

-

Nacho and GreyIce are the towniest of town

. I'm no expert scum hunter, but I am good at town hunting. Their conviction is extremely genuine. People hold Nacho to some godlike town standard but there are many nuggets of town here:
a) His reads look spot on
b) The "I don't know how many scum bodies I have to drop"
c) Saying this is good to GreyIce's "Let's lynch Kagami today. If she flips town, I'll help you with Nacho tomorrow" to ABR

I'll drop this now and will update after Day 2.

Vote: Sotty

[ooba]

Can we flash wagon ooba?
Then lynch nacho?

On Page 43.

I'm town.

Plus if
a) Either of Nacho or GreyIce are scum
b) If at least one of Sotty or Kagami is NOT scum
I'll stop playing Mafia forever.

[ooba]

Want to make a deal on it?
I'll vote whoever you wish for two days if greyICE/Nacho both flip town?

There's no way I'm for voting or lynching either of these two players. We need scum flips faster. Want to make a reverse deal?

Lynch Sotty today. Should flip scum. If not, lynch Kagami tomorrow. If both flip town, you have my vote for the rest of the game - including a self vote on me.

[ooba]

Sorry went to take a bath.

I don't care if it makes my reads look stronger. Nacho is flipping town for sure. The logic also works the other way around, a scum sotty flip also clears Nacho\GI.

[ooba]

Explain your logic behind your last statement.

Nacho\GI have been pushing Kagami\Sotty for most of the game. It doesn't feel like a bus from either person.

[ooba]

Want to make a deal on it?
I'll vote whoever you wish for two days if greyICE/Nacho both flip town?

There's no way I'm for voting or lynching either of these two players. We need scum flips faster. Want to make a reverse deal?

Lynch Sotty today. Should flip scum. If not, lynch Kagami tomorrow. If both flip town, you have my vote for the rest of the game - including a self vote on me.

If both flip town... There won't be a game to play

What is this dude?

Because it's 5:4 on D4?

Exactly why I don't want to agree to lynch GreyIce\Nacho today and tomorrow.

And I've already said I'll stop playing if both Kagami and Sotty are town - so I'm pretty confident it won't be 5:4 if that's what happens.

[ooba]

Explain your logic behind your last statement.

Nacho\GI have been pushing Kagami\Sotty for most of the game. It doesn't feel like a bus from either person.

What do you think of Eddie/MOLLIE

Eddie is scummy because he lurked out end of D1 and the GI vote\Hoopla hop on was bad.

Haven't got to mollie's replace in yet.

[ooba]

Are you going lurking = scum?

This is literally the reasoning for all your scumreads :/

By your definition your slot is also up for the game!

No I'm not fucking going lurking = scum.

I'm going PoE. Strong town reads and sort out the rest by looking at who pushes whom.

Here are instances where Nacho is town:
a) His reads look spot on
b) The "I don't know how many scum bodies I have to drop"
c) Saying this is good to GreyIce's "Let's lynch Kagami today. If she flips town, I'll help you with Nacho tomorrow" to ABR

Here are instances where GreyIce is town:
a) I haven't been lynched as town in four years
b) I should stop playing if we don't get at least 2 scum flips in these four people
c) Plus he's been pushing scum all game long

You can't fake town belief.

Anybody who thinks that the scum team is Nacho\GreyIce\me\?? is in la-la land.

[ooba]

Screw phone posting

That's why I write on the com


ANYWAY "kagami, Sotty, zar, Eddie lurked the hell out of day 1"

Magically all of them became your scumreads

Correction: They were scum reads and I pointed out their lurking.

This is sort of where I'm at right now. Let me finish\refine this.

{Sotty, Kagami, ???, ???} - Not Zar, wgeurts
{Sotty, Zar, wgeurts, ???} - ZZZX?

[ooba]

I am probably in la la land now

Then you're wrong. A Nacho lynch is not happening. Stop handing the game over to scum.

[ooba]

I may be wrong about nacho

But the risk of letting him live as scum is too high.



I am most probably not wrong about GreyICE. GreyICE is scum by the way!

This is a nightless game - you're still going to be alive to push against Nacho-scum if needed.

The way I see it - it's so hard to get a lynch on *obvious* scum today - it's only going to get harder as town numbers are whittled down.

Also, you should note the conviction of my reads when I said I'll stop playing if either is scum.

[ooba]

Lynching nacho town is hard

Lynching nacho scum is harder!!!!

Mollie I would like you to refer to joss whedon mafia. Nacho HYDRA with f16 almost slaughtered the town till Lylo. And it's a hydra with Mara and krew who (may weigh nacho scumgame down). This is the pure nacho goodness. No more extraneous scumslips from Mara's fake replace out which I caught immediately.

There are major benefits regardless of what he flips and I think that resisters are just scum. Because real town would be "ok". Or perhaps believe him and not lynch him.

I'm sorry but I'd like to lynch scum today and blow the game wide open.

Ok - we lynch Nacho today and he flips town. Where are we placed for tomorrow?

[ooba]

Why would scum be obvious.

Because in my eyes they are obvious once you remove the obv town from the lynch candidates.

I removed:
You
ABR
GreyIce
Nacho

We're left with:
Kagami Silverwolf (The Hitmen)
Pirate Mollie EddieFenix (The Leftovers)
Sotty7 (The Kliq)
wgeurts (Young and Beautiful)
Zar Empire (The Westeros Circlejerk)
ZZZX (TEAM WITH NO NAME)

- I'm at 44. Eddie calling Nacho town is probably town tell.
- ZZZX calling this {sonic/ABR/

wgerts

} the town block
- wgeurts arguing today why I voted Sotty over Kagami
- Zar looking for a {Nacho\Sera} case while voting Kagami which had Nacho on the wagon
- Zar, wgeurt voted Kagami - still haven't got to that point yet - but third point and him voting Kagami at the end of the day is possibly one against Kagami scum

So you have {Sotty, Zar, ZZZX, wgeurts}

It's obvious to me. But feel free to throw the game.

[ooba]

Want to make a deal on it?
I'll vote whoever you wish for two days if greyICE/Nacho both flip town?

There's no way I'm for voting or lynching either of these two players. We need scum flips faster. Want to make a reverse deal?

Lynch Sotty today. Should flip scum. If not, lynch Kagami tomorrow. If both flip town, you have my vote for the rest of the game - including a self vote on me.

Also note the hypocrisy in the following thought.

He's voting me currently because "Metal, can we please lynch him? He full well knows two mislynches will screw town badly.". From my perspective, Nacho\GI lynches are EXACTLY the same thing.

[ooba]

You seriously think that's the only reason I'm voting you?
Also, why are you voting sotty and not kagami? You ignored this.
(Nacho also put me in the town bloc as well, I do believe he was "super-town" so how is ZZZX doing it wrong?)

The answer is literally there two posts above.

You, Zar voted Kagami. Haven't read it to see if it's a bus yet - but double scum voting other scum seem less likely.

^pedit: You keep saying this. We start D2 with a Nacho town flip - where exactly does this put us?
"sotty/kagami flip whatever alignment they flip" - Really? GreyIce and Nacho have LITERALLY been pushing these two slots the whole game. A scum flip from them should clear GI and Nacho. But you already know this.

[ooba]

You must be pretty naive to think that Sotty and kagami flipping scum would clear grey and nacho

AND simultaneously believe that there is a lesser chance of it the other way round

Sure Nacho and\or Grey Ice flipping scum would clear Sotty\Kagami.

But there's a much lesser chance of Nacho\GreyIce flipping scum than those two slots.

[ooba]

If nacho flips town we will lynch kagami right?

Jesus.

@MS: Because Nacho's been pushing the scum right from the start. {Sotty\Kagami\Zar. I'm wrong about one in that bunch.} You're just too blind to see it.

[ooba]

Finished reading the thread.

There was NOTHING - not even a wiggle in D2 that made me shake the Nacho\GreyIce town reads. The discussion of who to lynch after their deaths.

They aren't reverse psychology geniuses. I've played with Nacho scum - I know how he operates. This was genuine town posting.

I've never played with GreyIce before (I think?) - but his posting resonates with me on every level. Again - the "I'll give you four names, you can lynch me"

- I hated that mollie retracted her town read on Nacho after replacing in. But posting's at par with what I've seen of mollie town.
- Kagami feels like mislynch bait
I'll have to ISO stuff again and see if this fits, but this is where I'm standing at right now. Their mutual read lists all fit the profile.

So you have {Sotty, Zar, ZZZX, wgeurts}

[ooba]

@ABR\@MS:

While I respect your wishes to vote Nacho, I also think you're wrong and going to be doing my best to get an actual scum lynch today. I will need one of you to switch at deadline.

@Mollie:

You're (and your team) are wrong about GreyIce - Please vote Shotty.

@Kagami:

I'll need you to vote.

[ooba]

Want to make a deal on it?
I'll vote whoever you wish for two days if greyICE/Nacho both flip town?

You want a real deal?

Vote Sotty today, if he flips town, I'll vote Nacho or whoever the hell you want tomorrow.

[Chances of Wgeurts accepting: 0%]

[ooba]

- I hated that mollie retracted her town read on Nacho after replacing in. But posting's at par with what I've seen of mollie town.

Mala also brings up the point that she can never see mollie replacing into a scum slot.

[ooba]

@MS:

What I read from Vezo’s statement is a lot of paranoia.

My town game is simple - find scum, lynch them. My reads are my shield.
- Capcom, pressured by a lot of slots - dayvig asks for a shot. I give them adorable. Shoots him - flips scum. I’m Conf town - die to a nightkill that night.
I see a Sotty lynch in the same light. Sotty flips scum - game breaks open.

If I was scum, a Sotty lynch does nothing for me
- with Nacho, I would have milked the bus for all it’s worth. A town Sotty flip would only make Nahco\me even more scum in your\ABR eyes. There’s no long term value there.
- and Nacho is town - I would have taken the Nacho mislynch. I don’t want a town player of his caliber staying along.

@ZZZX:

I’m scum reading you for the interactions amongst those I don’t have as town. Wge read. The three scum reads who I have as possibly town {def. Nacho, Grey}. Plus a lot of D2 not spent talking about game that much. ('Can you put reads in this format?')

[ooba]

The resistance to his lynch has been astronomical. Lynching him will blow the game wide open.

Ooba, like seriously, do you want to get mislynched to protect your Nacho townread? Sotty, same thing?

We're doing this.

I have close to 5% paranoia on the slot right now.

I don't think anybody can fake what he's posted - then, so be it - I'm casting my fate along with his.

MS - didn't reply to this - so I'll ask you. Where do we stand tomorrow with a town Nacho flip on our hands?

[ooba]

and yea putting the read as that format to build a block is the right thing. and if you dont do it I am voting you .

My reads are all on the table.

I have a scum team of four already declared from a PoE of six people. I'm willing to lynch Sotty because he has the best bet of flipping scum from all angles and is a lynch I can get today.

[ooba]

MS - didn't reply to this - so I'll ask you. Where do we stand tomorrow with a town Nacho flip on our hands?

Let me answer this for you. Me and my team already agreed on one thing: If nacho was town the only reason he wasnt quickly lynched was because his reads were accurate. so I will be lynching the hell out of eddie(whos not eddie anymore) / kagami for a first step

Nacho's already called both those slots town.

Why don't you ask Nacho what his venge shot will be?

[ooba]

is your "dont lynch at all unless hell breaks" : Metal / ABR / Nacho?

And Grey

[ooba]

also why didnt u feel anything about kagami's mid game's random lists - not doing nothing AT ALL all game long yet you go for me because I didnt talk about the game "much"? I dont mind being scum read but i can see hyprocrity here. Even at my day - 2 non-perfect play I am better than half of hte player list here.

Isn't tis similar to Grey's point on Sotty's 'Why not Hoopla'?

---

I don't do scum hunting by chatting. I've read a 70 page thread with enough conversations as an unbiased observer. [Slightly biased since I knew Sera was town and Hoopla was a D1 mislynch]. That's the power of the replacement. You get new thoughts that avoids group think and breaks the game open.

[ooba]

Ok. Cant type while eating. Gimme 10.

[ooba]

@ABR: "I'm not voting Sotty, that's who Nacho wanted to lynch D1."

I think we're both coming from the same place with different assumptions.
- I'm reading Sotty as scum -> Hence Nacho who pushed him on D1 has to be town
- You're reading Nacho as scum -> Hence his D1 push is town

---

@ZZZX: You're fourth on a list which I'll surely reevaluate after flips.

Also tell ika I'm sad I replaced into a vanilla game.

---

If we are mislynching Nacho, I want us to follow the vengeful lynch route.

He's clearly changed his reads on mollie.

I'm townreading her because normally when I vote her and that vote is correct, she crumples like a paper bag. That is clearly not happening here.

I'm actually scared we're heading for another mislynch tomorrow.

\inb4 ooba-scum with mollie

[ooba]

It's not going to be a mislynch.

Well, if it isn't, I actually will have to stop playing!! (Overconfidence has been my Achilles heal so should teach me something about life)

But if it is, let's make it vengeful. I'd like Nacho to state in thread who tomorrows lynch should be.

[ooba]

Hoopla's lynch was nobody's fault except her own. We were so close to hammering Sotty (or was it Kagami) - would have been an infinitely better lynch.

[ooba]

It's not going to be a mislynch.

Well, if it isn't, I actually will have to stop playing!! (Overconfidence has been my Achilles heal so should teach me something about life)

But if it is, let's make it vengeful. I'd like Nacho to state in thread who tomorrows lynch should be.

I, on the other hand, do not want Nacho to state this until we're at the edge.

Because that tells the scum to hop on or back off.

Like this guy.

By 'Like this guy' do you actually mean you like my play?

or Like this guy in conjunction with the previous sentence? "Because that tells the scum to hop on or back off." If it's this - I really wouldn't have disrupted the thread this much as scum. I hate playing scum and have zero motivation. I would have probably lurked out the day as scum with a token vote.

Nacho, however, seems to excel at reading me as either alignment so he should be able to tell the difference.

[ooba]

Like you. I think it's extremely extremely important for scum to know who Nacho is vigging prior to the "vigging plan" occurring. In fact I believe that that sort of thing is EXACTLY what they want.

Can see your reasoning - sure, he can keep the info with him till the 'edge'.

Also, I would still give anything for a Sotty lynch. Make it happen!

---

@MS:
I think good town replacements in general have much better reads than in thread people if they take the time out to read it in its entirety.

Also, I'm tired of town reads being lynched in game after game. The most recent experience has soured me in this regard. (You\Vezo should know)

Plus Nacho really has been *obvious* town this game. Scum cannot resonate thoughts on that level even if they play like their town selves would play it.

[ooba]

I would have probably lurked out the day as scum with a token vote.

There is no way you can survive like that with Seraphim's almost-Hoopla-level play. A moot point. Why are you raising this?

Because it's what I would have done as scum.

Like I said - lack of motivation. I don't think I've ever survived to an endgame as scum.

On the other hand, I fight tooth and nail as town. I've also never been mislynched in the last x years as town.

---

@MS: You are really letting paranoia get the better of you.

^pedit: The most recent experience

[ooba]

MS - didn't reply to this - so I'll ask you. Where do we stand tomorrow with a town Nacho flip on our hands?

Let me answer this for you. Me and my team already agreed on one thing: If nacho was town the only reason he wasnt quickly lynched was because his reads were accurate. so I will be lynching the hell out of eddie(whos not eddie anymore) / kagami for a first step

This is so true. Lynching Nacho will reveal everything to us.

We are wasting so many pages and time talking. Let's not make this so painful.

Are you seriously 100% that Nacho is scum? Like not this weak-ass Hoopla shit we got yesterday where you wouldn't even give me your vote (I COULD DO SO MANY GOOD THINGS WITH IT).

Can you like summarize why in one sentence even?

I knew Nacho was scum when he over-committed to his Kagami suspicion. It was very subtle, but it proves he's scum.

That's another read he's rolled back his suspicion on though.

[ooba]

I don't see why Ooba isn't voting Nacho if he's town. Even if he's right about Nacho, falling on his sword and getting mislynched today, and Nacho gets lynched tomorrow regardless, it's just a bad plan. Doing the vengekill is stupid. MS and I are as much confirmed town as Hoopla, yet no one save wgeurts wants to sheep us because "town can be wrong". That line of thinking is incompatible with the vengekill idea.

I meant I'll be happy to be mislynched tomorrow if Nacho is scum today.

Think of it on a strike basis.
- You and MS are town who pushed Nacho. Nacho flips town. You lose your chance.
- Nacho gets his chance.
And so on.

It avoids game loss if you're totally wrong.

[ooba]

VOTE: Ooba

I'm not one to snub the town block, as opposed to everybody else here it seems.

The town bloc is just town - it can (and in this and Nacho's case, is.) be wrong.

I get my vengeful lynch tomorrow.

[ooba]

Frankly I have zero desire to switch a wagon onto Ooba at the 11th hour. It won't succeed if he's scum, it might succeed if he's town, and that's that. Too easy for this town to just lurk out the deadline if he's scum, it's not going to give us a scum lynch. Fuck most of them don't post anyway (it is now 46 hours since the last Kagami post, and that post contributed jack shit)

Excellent reasoning.

^pedit: What's 'Dont front' mean?

[ooba]

Whether or not Ooba flips scum, my vote is on Nacho tomorrow.

Congrats - you've just lost the game for town.

If our wagon is 5 or more, and idiot town are not on the counter wagon, we *should* push through.

Two idiot scum already on the counter wagon to scum.

[ooba]

*two idiot town

[ooba]

Well I can compromise on Zar.

I feel like he's scum.

Anyone want to vote Zar today?

Fuck yes. Miles ahead of Nacho. (and me obv)

The thing with Sotty is that - even in your 'Nacho is scum' scenario, Sotty has good chances of being scum buddy because of Sotty's apparent town read on Nacho.

Add:
And D1 voting shows Zar voting Sotty - so that slot might be town. Why do you oppose a sure scum flip in Sotty?

[ooba]

Ooba do you want to lynch Grey Ice or Zar today?

Out of those - obviously Zar.

[ooba]

Sotty lynch tells us fucking nothing.

It has all the worst people on it.

Pirate and Greyice and nacho and ooba. What a joke, that wagon has guaranteed scum on it.

Mollies at most the only scum there.

[ooba]

Sotty lynch tells us fucking nothing.

It has all the worst people on it.

Pirate and Greyice and nacho and ooba. What a joke, that wagon has guaranteed scum on it.

Give me my four names then, and get as many as you want on my wagon.

Also why would Wguerts/ZZZX/Sotty/Kagami be a bad team choice

I ask this seriously.

Wgeurts setting up a 'If Nacho town, then Kagami tomorrow' gives me pause.

Those two slots are not scum together.

[ooba]

Ooba are you down for voting GreyIce?

No. It's equal to the Nacho read.

[ooba]

Ooba are you down for voting GreyIce?

No. It's equal to the Nacho read.

Don't take this as a falling on sword comment though. If it's between me and him, I'd vote him obviously.

But I hope we never *ever* get there.

[ooba]

Zero paranoia in ooba's posts. Wont consider grey or nacho. Wont follow town block. Eliminate him!

I'm more fucking paranoid about you\MS since we're getting so much opposition than I would ever be about Nacho\Grey. They are 100% on the reads.

ZZZX's 'Lets not lynch Sotty' 'What about Kagami' is right there in front of you.

[ooba]

VOTE: Ooba

I'm not one to snub the town block, as opposed to everybody else here it seems.

The town bloc is just town - it can (and in this and Nacho's case, is.) be wrong.

I get my vengeful lynch tomorrow.

No you won't. Me and Sonic will oppose any vengeful vote if you flip town. Don't front.

I will get my vengeful lynch tomorrow. Don't oppose it. You'll know your reads aren't spot on when I flip town.

I nominate Grey\Nacho to carry out my wishes. Townie's who are wrong (or scum with A++ game) don't get to be kings when they've let the people down.

[ooba]

If you're joined the game from the start, we would have had huge trouble weeding you out.


The black mark of your predecessor, Seraphim, WAS a factor that I considered.

Seraphim was useless. He's apparently a philosophy major.

This was my most recent game where I replaced into a scum slot. Zero fucking fight.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=60869

But all that is moot. I actually don't care if I get lynched this game. I do want a vengeful lynch that comes along with that.

[ooba]

By meta dive, you'll actually tunnel in with a view that I'm scum.

Answer me this:

I flip town, you admit you've screwed up and I get the vengeful lynch. YES\NO?

[ooba]

By meta dive, you'll actually tunnel in with a view that I'm scum.

Answer me this:

I flip town, you admit you've screwed up and I get the vengeful lynch. YES\NO?

NO.

That deal only applies to GreyICE

If these three conditions apply:
a) You're town
b) Nacho's town
c) You lynch me and ignore my vengeful instructions

expect me to single handedly tank your player ratings because you lost this game for town.

[ooba]

By meta dive, you'll actually tunnel in with a view that I'm scum.

Answer me this:

I flip town, you admit you've screwed up and I get the vengeful lynch. YES\NO?

NO.

That deal only applies to GreyICE

If these three conditions apply:
a) You're town
b) Nacho's town
c) You lynch me and ignore my vengeful instructions

expect me to single handedly tank your player ratings because you lost this game for town.

Obviously also applies to ABR. (with same conditions)

If you're scum, well played. If you're right about Nacho too, I'll back down.

But otherwise, you're both screwing up big time.

[ooba]

By meta dive, you'll actually tunnel in with a view that I'm scum.

Answer me this:

I flip town, you admit you've screwed up and I get the vengeful lynch. YES\NO?

NO.

That deal only applies to GreyICE

If these three conditions apply:
a) You're town
b) Nacho's town
c) You lynch me and ignore my vengeful instructions

expect me to single handedly tank your player ratings because you lost this game for town.

YES.

I will accept responsibility if I lost this game for town.

But I want to add another clause:

d) GreyICE's town.


Give me a lower player rating than Hoopla if that ever comes true.

Deal.

[ooba]

My personal death list is:

Sotty ---> Kagami ---> GreyICE ---> Zar.

Are you going to follow those names when I flip town, Grey?

Just made it to the thread. Let me guess: ABR is opposing the Sotty wagon,am i right?

[ooba]

because you read the previous part. Duh.

Because he's scum.

Sotty's scum and ABRs been opposing that wagon every single step of the way.

Vote: Sotty

{Sotty,ZZZX,ABR,Wgeurts}

Kagami is mislynch bait and you're the town who's being played. Anyway, you agreed to Nacho's plan - stop being an idiot now and vote Shotty.

[ooba]

Not to mention the absolute refusal to listen to any sort of Gladiate plan and 'Don't snub the town bloc'.

The "He was subtle when pushing Kagami but overextended" - bullshit
Calling four townies various villain names - bullshit

I had an ephinany of sorts yesterday when high. And was sad when thought I was lynched (Day 3 in title).

Him not supporting the Shotty wagon

WHEN IT WAS NACHOS VENGEFUL CHOICE

and going after Kagami who is mislynch bait is the last nail in the coffin.

[ooba]

I am thinking about MOLLIE + GreyICE. Their slots have been voting together for all of the game and all appear on town wagons.

But I always read nice MOLLIE = town mean MOLLIE = scum. I can't help it.

We know what you thought about Nacho - how did that turn out?

Now, vote Sotty.

[ooba]

My personal death list is:

Sotty

---> Kagami ---> GreyICE ---> Zar.

Are you going to follow those names when I flip town, Grey?

I'm just going to spam this in thread until scum sotty dies.

[ooba]

My personal death list is:

Sotty

---> Kagami ---> GreyICE ---> Zar.

Are you going to follow those names when I flip town, Grey?

I'm just going to spam this in thread until scum sotty dies.

I will help you.

I am town.

in no world wld I have replaced into a game with this amount of animosity directed towards me if I knew about it before hand.

I ca't blame any1 for not being a part of this game tho.

Again I know you are. What we need to is to galvanize the other town people to actually vote Sotty.
- Zar
- Kagami
- MS

[ooba]

Enough.

This discussion about interpersonal stuff lets scum coast.

Tall about Sotty. VOTE SOTTY

[ooba]

MS, I need you to get your head into the fucking game.
- D1, Shotty wagon builds up. Who offers resistance? ABR
- D2, Sotty wagon viable alternative to Nacho. Gets shot down. Again, who's there?
- D3, Who fails to uphold Nachos dying wish? Again, same guy.

Pedit: The fact that you keep taking about a distraction instead of the game is annoying and scummy.
You cannot be 'oh if nacho dies - his reads are 100% and then ignore his sotty vengeful'

I need all fucking townies to be on game here. 6 town - 6 to lynch. If you're town, man or woman the hell up and join the sotty wagon.

[ooba]

Want to make a deal on it?
I'll vote whoever you wish for two days if greyICE/Nacho both flip town?

You want a real deal?

Vote Sotty today, if he flips town, I'll vote Nacho or whoever the hell you want tomorrow.

[Chances of Wgeurts accepting: 0%]

Deal, as long as Metal Sonic agree's along with the rest of the town bloc.

Pedit: Dammit wgeurts. You ninjad my post. I'm proud of you.

[ooba]

48 hours don't hammer.

In the highly unlikely event that Sotty is town, I'd like a vengeful lynch from him too.

[ooba]

48 hours don't hammer.

In the highly unlikely event that Sotty is town, I'd like a vengeful lynch from him too.

you don't make me feel good about you

You'll feel better once Sotty flips scum.

[ooba]

why the fuck are metal and abr in a town block that anybody is listening to when they just lynched hoppla and then nacho? and took great pains to interfere with my process to sort out nacho?

They haev done a lot of bullshit. I know.

But they are town. That much havent changed. Do you think one of them is scum?

Clearly.

- Both lynched Nacho by creating an air of fear, uncertainty and doubt about that player slot
- When faced with opposition, they reaction with "But a town Nacho flip will tell us lots. We can use that in the days going forward"

- ABR in particular is guilty of the following things:
a) When I pressured him as to who exactly we lynch when Nacho flips town, he replied with Kagami to which I pointed out that Nacho changed his reads
b) Even when Nacho explicitly put Sotty at the front of the list, he tried changing that with a "So Nach do you prefer Sotty or Kagami lynch tomorrow?"
c) And voting Kagami today is just hilarious

- MS
a) Suddenly he wants Sotty to come in - town it up and "doesn't want to follow Nacho's plan"? After all that bullshit about Nacho being the best player on site and how it'll help us if his reads are "100% confirmed"


Both aren't scum - but my intuition says one is. This analysis is obviously predicated on Sotty being scum. I'll figure it out after the flip. Either way - I'm going after this bunch last. Lots of other scum to fry.

[ooba]

also because greyice is on sotty and that is suspicious. something is brewing.

If Sottys town, we lose because it will be trivially easy for scum to get a mislynch tomorrow.

I still stand by statement that greyice is town.

Scums best chance of winning this game is to push mislynches down our throat and win outright. Every scum lynch swings momentum back town side. A scum sotty flip should all but clear that dude since he's been on his case since D1.

[ooba]

MS, I've provided nuggets or highlights of why I think nacho was and grey ice is town. I don't do very big cases because it usually involves taking minor points and using them in an argument either way.

I will give you a bullet point about what my reads\highlights are for each person in the playerlist. However, all my analysis and reads are built on the foundation of sotty scum. So ill do that after the flip. I don't want to waste a lot of work only to fall flat on my face if its wrong.

[ooba]

I think that your points for GI-town in the above quote are weak and I think that you know it!

I wouldn't feel this strongly if they are weak. Dude's mirrored my thought process throughout. But I'll try and list it down

Don't quicklynch Kagami tomorrow. (Well, we can if Sotty flips town).

But if Sotty flips scum, I'd like to have my say on who the scum are. I have Kagami as town.

[ooba]

i have a duty to preserve the legacy of nacho


even if i strongly disagree with them!

Nacho was wrong about all other three names on his list. You'll see why once I show you the light.

[ooba]

Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!

Nobody's doing any fucking lynch before I have my say. Unvote now.

Kagami is town.

[ooba]

Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!

Nobody's doing any fucking lynch before I have my say. Unvote now.

Kagami is town.

No lynch her with us so we can be sure of that.
Please do it so I can factor you in when she flips.

I don't want this to become another one of 'his reads are too perfect' when Kagami flips town.

I want to highlight my thought process behind who I think is scum now - what town reads are and why I came to the conclusions I did.

If possible, I would like to use this particular series of posts to move the lynch to actually scum.

Scum really wanted to push it to 5:4 with a mislynch yesterday. Analyse everything from that - you will arrive at the truth.

Similary, we are at 6:3 they want to push today's mislynch ahead too. Let's analyse the sotty flip. Let's look at interactions.

Discussion people. And I will lead it.

[ooba]

OOBA SAY


WE SLAY!!!!!!!

I see.

this lynch wont wait more than 24 hours or else I will start going insane.

i swear

I'm not sober enough right now to even attempt making that post, so you'll have to wait.

Plus we just had a scum flip.

What are you guys afraid of?

That scum are so good that they're going to talk town out of a scum kagami lynch.

Or is more likely that this lynch pace is dictated by scum who just want to push this through.

Townies on the wagon - THINK!!

[ooba]

OOBA SAY


WE SLAY!!!!!!!

I see.

this lynch wont wait more than 24 hours or else I will start going insane.

i swear

I'm not sober enough right now to even attempt making that post, so you'll have to wait.

Plus we just had a scum flip.

What are you guys afraid of?

That scum are so good that they're going to talk town out of a scum kagami lynch.

Or is more likely that this lynch pace is dictated by scum who just want to push this through.

Townies on the wagon - THINK!!

Frankly Nacho's choices are not the only reason i want this. its more of the 2nd reason i want to do this

i wanted kagami dead from page 5

What do you mean 2nd reason? "Or is more likely that this lynch pace is dictated by scum who just want to push this through. "

a) So Kagami-scum partner to Sotty-scum just hammered fellow partner in Team Mafia?
b) Why did yesterday's nacho-sotty lynch take SOO much coercion from some sides? While today's is SOO fast?

[ooba]

Kagami is flipping town.

- D2: I wanted to lynch Sotty when Nacho was the play
- D4: I want to present my lynch choices when Kagami is the play
See any similarities?

You WILL GODDAMN WAIT AND LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY.

[ooba]

@ooba deposit something for me within 8 hours.

overnight weekend morning material

Wrong time zone for me. It's 10 PM here so I'll probably sleep in four hours. Then not wake up till about 8 AM. I have to go out on Sunday morning - that'll be about 5 hours.

I'll start my post 14 hours from now. It will take about 2-3 hours to finish. You will have my post 17 hours from now.

This game has my full and undivided attention.

[ooba]

That was not difficult to decipher!

I'm not sober enough right now to even attempt making that post, ...

[ooba]

It's coming to 1 am now and I want to fruit ninja your post on the Sunday morning

You got to approach it with a fresh perspective man. Unbiased.

You can be the first one to see the light. Together, we will bring down the evil and scummy.

[ooba]

Kagami is flipping town.

- D2: I wanted to lynch Sotty when Nacho was the play
- D4: I want to present my lynch choices when Kagami is the play
See any similarities?

You WILL GODDAMN WAIT AND LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY.

See the differance is this:
while nacho was obvtown and very contenful kagami was not and a lurksack + the "follow the plan" is in motion so that affects the situation too.
Thus your analysis is misguided.

We're past the point where isolated scum tells such 'Kagami is a lurksack' is valid reasons enough to push for a lynch.

You have a scum flip. You now have proved scum-??? interactions. You analyse them - you find scum and you lynch.

When pushing for a lynch - you now have to keep asking yourself 'Who the hell is scum with this person. So Sotty + Kagami + ??? + ??? - those other two'

Ok - you say GreyIce as a possible third? You analyse 'GreyIce' ~ 'Sotty' interactions. You'll come with the feeling that "HEY - THATS NOT A BUS" - and you'll know Grey is town.

So Grey is town? Who else can it be?
- wgeurts: Improbable because he had already made comments to the tune of 'Hey if nacho flips town lynch Kagami' on D2. Not going to do that with a scum partner.
- ZZZX: "Hey Guys what about Kagami?" on D2 and the pace of voting now - impossible to be a scum partner
- ABR with his instant vote on Kagami D3? - Nope
- Zar voted Kagami D2 when bussing was the best and far superior option. - Nope
- ooba? My first entry of the game was "Nacho-Ice sure town. One of Sotty\Kagami def scum" -> Really a double bus first post? Nope

That leaves MS and mollie. I can't remember anything from memory that particularly counters these pairings.

So could be {Sotty, Kagami, MS, mollie} - literally the only pairing that makes sense with Kagami scum. But when you have a town lean on mollie - but a 'at least I townread this slot before; I shouldn't question my early town reads' on MS - you realise even that is kinda not probable.

Hence your initial assumption was wrong. The building comes crumbling down - and only one thought survives the chaos that ensues. 'Kagami is town' and you are pretty certain of it.

[ooba]

Why is busing not a valid option? as long as a town block is in order the only way for scum to win is to bus like WTF

Sure bussing is a valid option.

So which interaction did you think was the bus in the above post?
a) GreyIce - Sotty
b) Ooba - Sotty\Kagami
.. Any of the other ones

Lets dig up arguments on both side of the 'Did wgeurts really bus? Read the shocking details in this post!' vs 'No way! Dude's town pushing on scum Kagami!'. We argue.

Whichever way Kagami (or our eventually lynchee) flips - we have far more information and a far more informed choice.

Discussion - this is how you win games. Not 'This is the plan! I wont think at all' way.

We are not lemmings. We're here to play the game.

[ooba]

I never said not to discuss, But it wont change today's lynch. but it will affect other day's lynches.

Why is this?

On D2, I pushed the hardest I ever have to lynch Sotty instead of Nacho. And faced stiff resistance because 'It's better this way. We'd know he's town for sure'.

So what?

A sotty SCUM lynch would have broken the game wide open and CLEARED a (STILL WOULD BE LIVING) TOWN nacho.

So you'll know Kagami's true alignment tomorrow? She flips town, what exactly is going to change?

You lynch <Scummy person> today and they flip SCUM.

You know who those interactions and vote patterns will clear? Kagami.
You know what else we gain for every scum lynch? A mislynch.

Just because we lynched scum yesterday doesn't mean we don't lynch our best candidate to be scum with Sotty.

[ooba]

also we are following the plan of the conf town. and i find that the most vaible option,. straying from that (and breaking promises) is anti town at best

I didn't make any single promise to Nacho. I've always wanted just the single vengeful lynch to go through.

If we are mislynching Nacho, I want us to follow the vengeful lynch route.

But if it is, let's make it vengeful. I'd like Nacho to state in thread who tomorrows lynch should be.

Every new flip gives you new info - you use that new info - something the conf townie didn't have access to on D2.

---

Just a random thought: If it is {MS, Mollie, Sotty, Kagami} - it's pretty funny that MS started lisetening\being nice to me only after I made this post.

i have a duty to preserve the legacy of nacho


even if i strongly disagree with them!

Nacho was wrong about all other three names on his list. You'll see why once I show you the light.

[ooba]

You know what - the more I think about it, the more this makes sense.

I thought it was ZZZX\Wgeurts\ABR - but somethings did make me pause on that today:
- Wgeurts sudden turn around - I really cannot see scum making a dramatic turn around like this. Plus I would have pegged ABR to be the one they select to slaughter their own team mates.
- Read back on ZZZX's promise. He seems incredibly calm to following Nacho's lynch list - even with Sotty leading the list. Now, the other three names would be town in that scenario - but he knew town would have stopped at town-kagami.

So let's go ahead with Kagami
- A Kagami scum flip would clear all of these - ABR\Wgeurts\ZZZX for me
- And on a town flip - I can tell you why I thought ZZZX\Wgeurts\ABR makes sense as a team

Vote: Kagami

[ooba]

yeah if you have any changes to your plan because of that shitty opportunistic wagon composition (note: mollie + grey on the same wagon, sotty not even voting you) you really should give them before your heart stops

The funny thing was it may possibly come from town!


You can get a low player evaluation too!

Guys what about kagami?

@Gray/Metal what do you think about kagami?

Focus.

The nacho group ran over to Kagami too right just now.

You should come to ooba.

Lol. Yes, I would like to really see the Kagami flip now.

Now i'm impatient for the flip! SLAAAY!

[ooba]

Sorry the second quote is about the hammer, not third.

[ooba]

Well, Kagami's flipping town as Zar's scum.

Not sure on whether Zar is scum or not.

But a Kagami scum flip clears all of you who I thought were setting up for a D4 Kagami mislynch (ABR\ZZZX\you) and confirms MS scum read to me. There's so much fodder there that I can literally rip him to shreds. I'll just have to find out who the partner is.

[ooba]

Now before you vote Zar, I need you to consider two things:

a) First, Zar was on the Kagami wagon before. I don't remember the exact reasons as to why he got on etc. I'll analyse this - but it should give you pause.

Votecount 2.2

Kagami (4) - GreyICE, Nachomamma8, Zar, wgeurts
Nachomamma8 (2) - Albert B. Rampage, ZZZX
GreyICE (1) - Metal Sonic
Seraphim (1) - Sotty7

Not Voting (3) - EddieFenix, Kagami, Seraphim

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

Deadline is 4/18 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-18 18:00:00).

b) Second, just ISO Metal Sonic. Start with after Nacho comes up with his list for best results. I think its obvious - I'll highlight every single piece of associate evidence.

@ZZZX: Tell ika this is like the Om-Klazam ISO in the Lost Room Mafia. It's painfully obvious.

[ooba]

GreyIce is town ZZZX. Work with me here. ISO wagons.

ISO GreyIce - he literally pushed Kagami and Sotty so hard.

Ok. Done with Day 1. Here are my thoughts:

- Kagami, Sotty, Eddie, Zar literally just lurked out the end of the day
- Kagami used GreyIce suspicion as a crutch to literally comment on nothing else throughout the entire day.
- This is similar to wgeurt's MS suspicion at the start of the game - but his play improved as the day continued - I liked the Kagami vote when Hoopla's wagon looked like it might die down.

-

Nacho and GreyIce are the towniest of town

. I'm no expert scum hunter, but I am good at town hunting. Their conviction is extremely genuine. People hold Nacho to some godlike town standard but there are many nuggets of town here:
a) His reads look spot on
b) The "I don't know how many scum bodies I have to drop"
c) Saying this is good to GreyIce's "Let's lynch Kagami today. If she flips town, I'll help you with Nacho tomorrow" to ABR

I'll drop this now and will update after Day 2.

Vote: Sotty

[ooba]

Ooba if we listened that much yesterday we wouldnt have lynched kagami. would we?

I will follow and read.

but this game is on auto win right now.

Actually you can literally see the gears in my head churning in these posts. I laid out every single step.

I didn't vote Kagami because I wanted to follow Nacho's list.

I voted Kagami because I removed the assumption that the three of you were planning a mislynch on her. Then MS-Kagami became obvious.

Spoiler: Workings

Kagami is flipping town.

- D2: I wanted to lynch Sotty when Nacho was the play
- D4: I want to present my lynch choices when Kagami is the play
See any similarities?

You WILL GODDAMN WAIT AND LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY.

See the differance is this:
while nacho was obvtown and very contenful kagami was not and a lurksack + the "follow the plan" is in motion so that affects the situation too.
Thus your analysis is misguided.

We're past the point where isolated scum tells such 'Kagami is a lurksack' is valid reasons enough to push for a lynch.

You have a scum flip. You now have proved scum-??? interactions. You analyse them - you find scum and you lynch.

When pushing for a lynch - you now have to keep asking yourself 'Who the hell is scum with this person. So Sotty + Kagami + ??? + ??? - those other two'

Ok - you say GreyIce as a possible third? You analyse 'GreyIce' ~ 'Sotty' interactions. You'll come with the feeling that "HEY - THATS NOT A BUS" - and you'll know Grey is town.

So Grey is town? Who else can it be?
- wgeurts: Improbable because he had already made comments to the tune of 'Hey if nacho flips town lynch Kagami' on D2. Not going to do that with a scum partner.
- ZZZX: "Hey Guys what about Kagami?" on D2 and the pace of voting now - impossible to be a scum partner
- ABR with his instant vote on Kagami D3? - Nope
- Zar voted Kagami D2 when bussing was the best and far superior option. - Nope
- ooba? My first entry of the game was "Nacho-Ice sure town. One of Sotty\Kagami def scum" -> Really a double bus first post? Nope

That leaves MS and mollie. I can't remember anything from memory that particularly counters these pairings.

So could be {Sotty, Kagami, MS, mollie} - literally the only pairing that makes sense with Kagami scum. But when you have a town lean on mollie - but a 'at least I townread this slot before; I shouldn't question my early town reads' on MS - you realise even that is kinda not probable.

Hence your initial assumption was wrong. The building comes crumbling down - and only one thought survives the chaos that ensues. 'Kagami is town' and you are pretty certain of it.

Just a random thought: If it is {MS, Mollie, Sotty, Kagami} - it's pretty funny that MS started lisetening\being nice to me only after I made this post.

i have a duty to preserve the legacy of nacho


even if i strongly disagree with them!

Nacho was wrong about all other three names on his list. You'll see why once I show you the light.

You know what - the more I think about it, the more this makes sense.

I thought it was ZZZX\Wgeurts\ABR - but somethings did make me pause on that today:
- Wgeurts sudden turn around - I really cannot see scum making a dramatic turn around like this. Plus I would have pegged ABR to be the one they select to slaughter their own team mates.
- Read back on ZZZX's promise. He seems incredibly calm to following Nacho's lynch list - even with Sotty leading the list. Now, the other three names would be town in that scenario - but he knew town would have stopped at town-kagami.

So let's go ahead with Kagami
- A Kagami scum flip would clear all of these - ABR\Wgeurts\ZZZX for me
- And on a town flip - I can tell you why I thought ZZZX\Wgeurts\ABR makes sense as a team

Vote: Kagami

It's not auto win because you have MS in your town pile\bloc\whatever.

I want him lynched today.

[ooba]

Guys just do me this favour and look at MS ISO with the knowledge that Kagami is scum.

[ooba]

@ooba i cant trust you enough to break hte block right now. if we hit one more scum we should survive even if he was scum anyway. shouldnt we make this our current goal?

MS is scum - I know this now. We really need to not waste mislynches since I literally don't have that much confidence in 'Who's his partner?' read.

I'll say this though - Grey's town.

He has been since I read part of D1.

And I have to ask this - do you really see me making this post with a scum alignment and partners with Sotty and Kagami?

Can we flash wagon ooba?
Then lynch nacho?

On Page 43.

I'm town.

Plus if
a) Either of Nacho or GreyIce are scum
b) If at least one of Sotty or Kagami is NOT scum
I'll stop playing Mafia forever.

[ooba]

You said kagami would flip town ooba, let us have another lynch on grey.
If she flips town I'll listen and follow your vote as it's then probably more trustworthy than any other.
If grey flips scum we continue.
We have 3 mislynches, is this a deal?

I changed my mind as soon as I removed the assumption that she's a mislynch.

Let me just point out what I see. Then you'll vote MS with me.

[ooba]

actually ooba i want to ask you something interesting.

what is your top TOWN read outside of the blok?

GreyIce - miles ahead top town for me.

[ooba]

just as an extra safety net i need one mroe guy to build a semi 2ndary town block,

reason is simple

if there is a scum in the block and we have a safety net we can ensure things work out.

You see unless both town block and the person we vote for the 2ndary blok is scum we cant lose that way.

thoughts?

I don't understand this secondary bloc thing.

[ooba]

actually ooba i want to ask you something interesting.

what is your top TOWN read outside of the blok?

GreyIce - miles ahead top town for me.

another guy other than grey btw?

Wgeurts - The 'If nacho town, then kagami' lynch
ZZZX - for reactions yesterday and the random 'What about Kagami guys?'

All of the above are town.

[ooba]

Got this interaction from Metal's ISO - does this really look like Kagami-scum talking about GreyIce-scum buddy?

I'm reading Sotty as town because GreyIce wants to lynch him?

GreyIce was Kagami's crutch. She literally talked about nothing else D1 to avoid talking about others. [Exactly - like her lynch day]

Kagami, got anything to say that's especially interesting? Why are you into the vengeful thing?

Because sotty is going to flip town, and it will make this game infinitely simply when day 2 begins with a theory discussion between greyICE and hoopla about why it's important to follow our hearts and how we shouldn't let dead townies tell us what to do.

Why do you think sotty will flip town?

In large part because greyICE wants to lynch him.

Why do you think he's scum, and why do you think grey is town?

I read that, serephim. It's not compelling. I agree that sotty's play isn't amazing, but I've seen far worse from town being tunneled into the ground.

GI's posting is bizarrely inconsistent, which is ironic given he says the same of sotty. The best point he makes is the token thing.

He complains that sotty is willing to town block with players who haven't even posted against, pointing to a list that is probably just people sotty likes/has played with before. Later hoopla shows up later saying she'll sheep GI and ABR and just gamble that they're town. Hoopla gets a solid town for that because hoopla understands the need to town-block.

He should have had hoopla as town at 114, given his suspicion of sotty. Instead, there are sprinkles of "hoopla might be scum" in the token conversation and hoopla's opening is "deliberately uninteresting." He decides hoopla is town at 272 for whatever reason. I asked him about it, and apparently GI doesn't do pre-flip associations. Meanwhile, Eddie is revving a chainsaw in 258.

sotty is apparently pathetic and the worst liar ever. And is a legendary scum player in the next post.

There are other little things too. I don't believe town greyICE would ever utter "scum caught for the wrong reasons." He's just too smart to believe that. 277 is another ridiculous thing I don't think town-GI would say. "One of my townreads is scum" reads as "I'll have to 180 on one of my townreads once my scumreads are all dead."

And yes, a lot of this oddly revolves around a greyice-hoopla interaction. I think they're scum together. The early hoopla-scum sprinkles might indicate town-hoopla, but it looks like it was just distancing that grey decided not to bother with since he inexplicably has a townread from everyone.

So on to that townread. Why is greyICE town, seraphim?

[ooba]

Ooba please explain the MS, I'm interested.
However please vote grey, we're following a plan and if grey flips town then we can look into wagoning MS or Zar.
The last scum are in Zar/Grey/Mollie/ABR in order of likelyhood.

This time you're asking me to vote a very strong town read vs what is an obvious scum read.

Let me post that MS case and let's see what you think of it first.

[ooba]

Who's replacing out. Sotty is town and apart of our ideal town block (MS, Kagami, ZZZX, Zar, and Myself).

Lol

[ooba]

So both my town reads of mollie and metal are crumbling atm....

Welcome to the light my friend!!

[ooba]

This talking\interacting thing is great. I literally stumbled upon this because we had this chat.

I wanted to point how literally impossible a Kagami scum grouping was to you.

Then
- I actually got a group
- I actually got a wiggle it might be right
- Then confirmation!!!

Spoiler:

Kagami is flipping town.

- D2: I wanted to lynch Sotty when Nacho was the play
- D4: I want to present my lynch choices when Kagami is the play
See any similarities?

You WILL GODDAMN WAIT AND LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY.

See the differance is this:
while nacho was obvtown and very contenful kagami was not and a lurksack + the "follow the plan" is in motion so that affects the situation too.
Thus your analysis is misguided.

We're past the point where isolated scum tells such 'Kagami is a lurksack' is valid reasons enough to push for a lynch.

You have a scum flip. You now have proved scum-??? interactions. You analyse them - you find scum and you lynch.

When pushing for a lynch - you now have to keep asking yourself 'Who the hell is scum with this person. So Sotty + Kagami + ??? + ??? - those other two'

Ok - you say GreyIce as a possible third? You analyse 'GreyIce' ~ 'Sotty' interactions. You'll come with the feeling that "HEY - THATS NOT A BUS" - and you'll know Grey is town.

So Grey is town? Who else can it be?
- wgeurts: Improbable because he had already made comments to the tune of 'Hey if nacho flips town lynch Kagami' on D2. Not going to do that with a scum partner.
- ZZZX: "Hey Guys what about Kagami?" on D2 and the pace of voting now - impossible to be a scum partner
- ABR with his instant vote on Kagami D3? - Nope
- Zar voted Kagami D2 when bussing was the best and far superior option. - Nope
- ooba? My first entry of the game was "Nacho-Ice sure town. One of Sotty\Kagami def scum" -> Really a double bus first post? Nope

That leaves MS and mollie. I can't remember anything from memory that particularly counters these pairings.

So could be {Sotty, Kagami, MS, mollie} - literally the only pairing that makes sense with Kagami scum. But when you have a town lean on mollie - but a 'at least I townread this slot before; I shouldn't question my early town reads' on MS - you realise even that is kinda not probable.

Hence your initial assumption was wrong. The building comes crumbling down - and only one thought survives the chaos that ensues. 'Kagami is town' and you are pretty certain of it.

[ooba]

I'm town.

ABR is scum.

Give me 48 hours.

I can see where you're coming from.

Do me a favor and help me with his D3 Kagami vote? Why really prefer Kagami to sotty there? That's why I'm town reading him currently.

Also let me know what you think about MS. Read after when Nacho builds his list.

[ooba]

So Nach do you prefer Sotty or Kagami lynch tomorrow?

Also here - why even ask for a preference amongst two scum buddies?

[ooba]

Ok. The case against MS is based on two things
a) First his voting when scum wagons were a good alternative
b) His reaction to Nachos list.

a)

Wagoning and Defense of scum

Spoiler:

D1 softy push

- Voted sotty but immediately afterwards
- #599: "I am going to state that I would prefer Hoopla or Seraphim dead today rather than Sotty."

D1 Kagami push when Hoopla was a counterwagon

- First calls all the votes on the Kagami push “fucking scum theatre”
- Vezo suddenly comes out to say “Was Kagami in organic chemistry? I don't remember her. Vezokpiraka would like to say that he has Kagami as town because of orgo chem”

#991
Defending sotty against GreyIce’s “If Sotty returned for a last hurrah, it's very easy to think that she would select scum for it. “

D2 Kagami push when Nacho’s also on the block

“nacho wagon magically off the hook.

i dont like the smell of this. i think that kagami is mislynch bait.”

Followed by tons of defense

Our wagons today never went above 4.

Meanwhile troll wagon on kagami hits 4 every since time

Want to make a deal on it?
I'll vote whoever you wish for two days if greyICE/Nacho both flip town?

There's no way I'm for voting or lynching either of these two players. We need scum flips faster. Want to make a reverse deal?

Lynch Sotty today. Should flip scum. If not, lynch Kagami tomorrow. If both flip town, you have my vote for the rest of the game - including a self vote on me.

If both flip town... There won't be a game to play

What is this dude?

Guys what about kagami?

@Gray/Metal what do you think about kagami?

Focus.

The nacho group ran over to Kagami too right just now.

You should come to ooba.

b)

Nacho's list reactions

Nacho's death list had two scum at the start of the list. Now I re-read ZZZX's reaction and it was painfully calm - didn't act like how a scum dude would react to two scum buddies heading the list. Now just see MS's reaction:

Spoiler:

My personal death list is:

Sotty ---> Kagami ---> GreyICE ---> Zar.

Are you going to follow those names when I flip town, Grey?

Step 1: Ignore Nacho directions - set up a grey mislynch.

I really want to be lynched guys.

Not happening. You just town cleared yourself and we're about to lynch your scumread Nacho.

can we then lynch grey?

cos that is what my team terribly wants.

Yes. Grey after nacho

#2205: Nacho specifically quotes MS above post and says “No. Follow the plan.”

#2207: MS specifically asks about the “Did you discard page 56 plan cause that one was actually the plan I was going to follow! I think you know that I dislike dynamic plans!”

Then there’s the Kagami hammer and even more defense of the slot

The funny thing was it may possibly come from town!


You can get a low player evaluation too!

#2215: Nacho reiterates “Follow the plan.”

#2216: MS: “But you changed reads! I can't follow a read changer!!!!!! HELP ME ASDGHHJKKLL”

#2219: Nacho: “This is my dying breath, my time taken away by a scum quickhammer. Do not deviate, do not delay, do not get distracted.”

#2220: MS: Talks about other plans Nacho came up with

#2225: “OKAY I WILL FOLLOW YOUR PLAN SENPAI”

Starts setting up a “Oh what if Nacho is wrong angle” that he pursues on D3

#2226:

EVEN THOUGH I THINK GREYICE SHOULD DIE IN A PIT FIRE FIRST



BUT NACHO TOWN IS ALWAYS RIGHT YAS?

#2235-8: He fucking pleads with Nacho for any changes to his list.

LAST WORDS! LAST WILL! ANY CHANGES???? (I KNOW YOU WILL)

EVERYTHING YOU SAY IS VERY IMPORTANT

IF WE LOSE IT IS ON YOU.

YOU WILL LEAD US TO VICTORY.

BE THE KING AND LORD FOR ALL OF US AND BRING US TO VICTORY

yeah if you have any changes to your plan because of that shitty opportunistic wagon composition (note: mollie + grey on the same wagon, sotty not even voting you) you really should give them before your heart stops

D3:
He votes for Sotty but suddenly descends into an *Argument* with mollie

#2339: Suddenly he wants Sotty to come into the thread and town it up so that they don’t have to follow Nacho’s plan. Remember, tis is the same person WHOS been on every single scum list of his, along with a detailed case on why GreyIce-Sotty are scum together.

#2341: You have the ‘What if Nacho is wrong’ series

this is like jumping off a building and hoping that jesus nacho will carry us to the heavens!


let's not think about what happens if this goes wrong!

#2347: “i was talking to myself about what if sotty was town.”

MS’s interactions with me are also particularly telling
- When I’m certain in Nacho\Grey town reads and Sotty\Kagami scum reads
—> Replies with "My conviction is so high, its shocking"
- When I post my meta and state how different my town and scum games are (which anyone who’s played with me more than twice will no)
—> Replies with "Meta suddenly shouldn’t apply in team Mafia games"
- Wgeurts mentions how a Sotty scum flip would help my town cred
—> Replies with "Supposedly my reads are “Too perfect”"

The first post in which he literally turns around? The one where I express the view that Kagami might be a mislynch set up by scum.

i have a duty to preserve the legacy of nacho


even if i strongly disagree with them!

Nacho was wrong about all other three names on his list. You'll see why once I show you the light.

you intrigue me.

i like your play ooba. I like it too much.

I am going to have high expectations.

[ooba]

I'm going 1:1 with Metal Sonic. Your town bloc is broken and I need to take steps to fix it.

Lynch him. If he flips town, you can kill me tomorrow.

Vote: MS

Just literally open the tab where he pleads to Nacho to change the lists and tell me you don't see scum partner with Sotty\Kagami written all over it.

[ooba]

Here's the main posts where its obvious for those who don't have the time to go through other points.

#2235-8: He pleads with Nacho for any changes to his list.

LAST WORDS! LAST WILL! ANY CHANGES???? (I KNOW YOU WILL)

EVERYTHING YOU SAY IS VERY IMPORTANT

IF WE LOSE IT IS ON YOU.

YOU WILL LEAD US TO VICTORY.

BE THE KING AND LORD FOR ALL OF US AND BRING US TO VICTORY

yeah if you have any changes to your plan because of that shitty opportunistic wagon composition (note: mollie + grey on the same wagon, sotty not even voting you) you really should give them before your heart stops

[ooba]

pssst. pretty sure my bf can read me!

and no1 better hand me that nonsense about he wldn't vote each other cos nacho and I will each other every single time if we think the other is scum! the only time you shld be worried if we are scum together and well obvsly we are not.

Mollie, if you're town - lets work together.

Vote MS with me. You've already mentioned suspicion about that slot.

[ooba]

Hi ooba. You have been attempting to subvert the nacho plan at every point after the single Sotty flip! Why would you use it as a valid point!

Haha!!

Who pushed through the Sotty lynch?

I'll let the other people decided.

Who tried to get Nacho to change his lynch with two scum in it not once, twice but thrice? Never before have posts screamed alignment to me in MS like these three.

Here's the main posts where its obvious for those who don't have the time to go through other points.

#2235-8: He pleads with Nacho for any changes to his list.

LAST WORDS! LAST WILL! ANY CHANGES???? (I KNOW YOU WILL)

EVERYTHING YOU SAY IS VERY IMPORTANT

IF WE LOSE IT IS ON YOU.

YOU WILL LEAD US TO VICTORY.

BE THE KING AND LORD FOR ALL OF US AND BRING US TO VICTORY

yeah if you have any changes to your plan because of that shitty opportunistic wagon composition (note: mollie + grey on the same wagon, sotty not even voting you) you really should give them before your heart stops

[ooba]

Clearly this is following Nacho's plan:

also sotty you actually have meta on me now so you better come haul ass so that if you are town we can um.

not follow nacho's plan? i dunno. if sotty is town we are p much screwed.

i dont think her words are useful at all even if she is town!

[ooba]

Do you no longer have doubts that grey is scum? I think I wanted his head ever since d1 but maybe the flips change things


Then again we have achieved our goal of 2 scum dead

What do you mean 'no longer'??

I've always read Grey as town since I read the goddamn thread. Sotty was obvious scum, Kagami fairly too.

---

@ABR

, I can quote posts for days too. You'll lose in this game.

Hey Seraphim! I think you're the person in my scumpool that I'm wrong about!

What do you think of Kagami and Sotty votes?

At 28 now.

I'm sorry - but there's no way that Nacho's scum this game.

Kagami\Sotty\???\???

(Probably wgeurts for that Nacho vote)

What makes you so

sure

?

Posting. And his suspicions.

This is where I am right now: Sotty\Kagami and 2 from {Zar, Wgeu, Mollie}

Nacho-scum would have never pushed Sotty\Kagami\Zar.

---

^Pedit: Agreed that the Nacho wagon {ABR, MS} is town. But it's also wrong.

Ok. Done with Day 1. Here are my thoughts:

- Kagami, Sotty, Eddie, Zar literally just lurked out the end of the day
- Kagami used GreyIce suspicion as a crutch to literally comment on nothing else throughout the entire day.
- This is similar to wgeurt's MS suspicion at the start of the game - but his play improved as the day continued - I liked the Kagami vote when Hoopla's wagon looked like it might die down.

-

Nacho and GreyIce are the towniest of town

. I'm no expert scum hunter, but I am good at town hunting. Their conviction is extremely genuine. People hold Nacho to some godlike town standard but there are many nuggets of town here:
a) His reads look spot on
b) The "I don't know how many scum bodies I have to drop"
c) Saying this is good to GreyIce's "Let's lynch Kagami today. If she flips town, I'll help you with Nacho tomorrow" to ABR

I'll drop this now and will update after Day 2.

Vote: Sotty

[ooba]

I'm going 1:1 with Metal Sonic.

Your town bloc is broken and I need to take steps to fix it.

Lynch him.

If he flips town, you can kill me tomorrow.

Vote: MS

Just literally open the tab where he pleads to Nacho to change the lists and tell me you don't see scum partner with Sotty\Kagami written all over it.

MS, I've already thrown down the gauntlet.

It's already too late.

[ooba]

Ooba super lurk active.

I will not lynch: ABR, wgeurts, GreyICE,

Kagami

I am willing to lynch: Nacho, ZZZX, Zar
I want to lynch: Metal, Mollie, Ooba

Towniest being ABR, Scummiest being Ooba.

This list is fucking interesting. Interesting as fuck. Why does she want to lynch Metal, Mollie and Ooba?

We can say "shitty list" all we want, but why is metal there? It wasn't a realistic lynch for the day and Sotty isn't an idiot.
Ooba/Seraphim she laid it heavily on... don't think he's scum.
wguerts again is a strange one to see in the super town read. Why?

If I theorize two scum in the "Will not lynch" and one in the "willing to lynch" then it's Wguerts/ABR and ZZZX/Zar?

Yes aware this points to me to. As I said, am fine with dying here.

Personally it could be one in the "want to lynch" today. MS being pasted there is just weird.

There's no reason to lynch you today - your play speaks for itself.

Please give me the MS lynch - I'm certain of this.

[ooba]

Ooba, I caught Sotty at #210 and you predecessor pulled all the breaks in the world to stop me from getting Sotty lynched. Tried to shift the lynch to Grey Ice. At the time, I pointed out exactly how bizarre it was for him to go from a Sotty vote with reasons, to an unvote three hours later for bad reasons. Your meaningless catch up post at 1868 comes

without any scumhunting, observations, quotes

. You just posted a blank reads list.

We can all just piggyback on all the legwork I've done in this game, which will be ignored by most players in this game, and praise Nacho the martyr for coming to the exact same conclusions I was going to come to (although I would lynch Kagami > Sotty > Ooba instead of Sotty > Kagami > Ooba like him). I did more than Nacho did for this game but he will be remembered for his sacrifice and I'll be remembered for blowing up and losing interest in the game after Pirate replaced in.

It's okay.

I'm a results guy. We win this one.

Lol. Blank scum hunting?

I needed you on D2 when I was pushing the Sotty lynch through. I don't need you today because this is my town.

Well I can compromise on Zar.

I feel like he's scum.

Anyone want to vote Zar today?

Fuck yes. Miles ahead of Nacho. (and me obv)

The thing with Sotty is that - even in your 'Nacho is scum' scenario, Sotty has good chances of being scum buddy because of Sotty's apparent town read on Nacho.

Add:
And D1 voting shows Zar voting Sotty - so that slot might be town.

Why do you oppose a sure scum flip in Sotty?

[ooba]

I'm going 1:1 with Metal Sonic.

Your town bloc is broken and I need to take steps to fix it.

Lynch him.

If he flips town, you can kill me tomorrow.

Vote: MS

Just literally open the tab where he pleads to Nacho to change the lists and tell me you don't see scum partner with Sotty\Kagami written all over it.

MS, I've already thrown down the gauntlet.

It's already too late.

And here's the kicker ABR.

I've already 1:1 with a slot. Scum aren't going to do that with two members down.

You're that sure I'm scum? Surely a townie mislynch followed by a scum lynch is still "mop up".

Vote MS - if he flips town, you can have my lynch tomorrow.

[ooba]

Exact. Same. Reads.

Way ahead of him realizing and coming to the same conclusions as me.

He followed me.

He recognized it. He said it himself.

I'm better than him. He made more mistakes than I did. I'll prove it by the end of this game. And I still won't be liked, people will avoid my games (I'll be avoiding you too pirate), and my name will be dragged in the mud. It's a blessing, really. The groupthinking mass will keep low expectations of me and allow me to thrive unencumbered.

- You pushed Nacho on D2 over everything else when Sotty was a viable wagon.
- Should I remind you of the Bane, Joker, Bane's Girlfriend post you made about {Nacho, Grey, me, Mollie} when we were on the wagon
- You literally were absent the last two days when scum were lynched except a solitary post on D3

[ooba]

I don't need you today because this is my town.

HAHAHAHAHA

The townblock is Sonic + me + ZZZX + wgeurts + Pirate +

Grey Ice.

Suck it.

Oh. Now GreyIce is in the town block?

So whats my strategy as scum?
- Come in to the thread - Declare both Nacho and Grey as townies town
- Then implicate my scum buddies

^pedit: Cant figure out if still hilariously bad at this game or scum.

[ooba]

Ooba > Zar = ggwp

Lol. Obviously.

Second post during catchup.

What makes you so

sure

?

Posting. And his suspicions.

This is where I am right now: Sotty\Kagami and 2 from {Zar, Wgeu, Mollie}

Nacho-scum would have never pushed Sotty\Kagami\Zar.

---

^Pedit: Agreed that the Nacho wagon {ABR, MS} is town. But it's also wrong.

[ooba]

Nothing fucking matters more than Seraphim placing a third vote on Sotty as Grey Ice and wgeurts were pushing it, then I place a fourth, he quickly unvotes with no reasoning, is asked to explain, shifts to Grey Ice, and lurks the day out while Hoopla hangs. Nothing beats that. It's the most telling piece of the game. Nothing else fucking matters, Ooba. Critical mistake. I pointed it out in 5 posts immediately as it happened. Are you aware of the word contemporaneous? It's a word Titus would use.

You are nothing. You're a nobody. Nothing you say matters. You're voice is shaking and shriveling and I'm about to make you my victim in this game to the benefit of this town. WELL PLAYED, GOODBYE SCUM.

Nothing fucking matters? Because you set up a weak ass associative on a weak ass slot?

Nothing fucking matters because I obvtown'd the minute I entered the thread?

Here's my ISO - I stopped at #10 - because it is so clearly WRITTEN IN CAPTIAL LETTERS that I'm town town town.

#5:

“Nacho is town.” “Kagami\Sotty\???\???“

#6:

Nacho-scum would have never pushed Sotty\Kagami\Zar.

#7:

Have you discussed who's scum with Nacho?

#8:

“Nacho and GreyIce are the towniest of town.”
“- Kagami, Sotty, Eddie, Zar literally just lurked out the end of the day
- Kagami used GreyIce suspicion as a crutch to literally comment on nothing else throughout the entire day. “

#9:

“I'm town.

Plus if
a) Either of Nacho or GreyIce are scum
b) If at least one of Sotty or Kagami is NOT scum
I'll stop playing Mafia forever.”

#10:

There's no way I'm for voting or lynching either of these two players. (GreyIce\Nacho) We need scum flips faster. Want to make a reverse deal?

Lynch Sotty today. Should flip scum. If not, lynch Kagami tomorrow. If both flip town, you have my vote for the rest of the game - including a self vote on me.

[ooba]

It's super easy to come in and say this person is town and that person is scum. Any monkey can look at the scum PT and follow instructions like that. Doesn't erase all the scummy things Seraphim did, does it? Die scum.

No its suboptimal in this setup.

I decided to call one mislynch on the table town (Nacho) - pushed against his lynch so strongly - and went after Sotty.

You did the same fucking thing you accuse Sera of doing on D2. Who stonwalled the wagon on D2 when it was a four votes?

[ooba]

Ooba too, probably should die. It's easy to state how townie people are at the 11th hour. He wanted to go off message yesterday. But you did the day before even that.

What are you talking about?

Every since I joined the thread - I've been on Sotty's case.

The 11th hour thing is bullshit because we literally got a substantial wagon on Sotty on D2.

D3 - pushed fully on Sotty.

ZZZX's not scum with Kagami - his 'Hey Guys What about Kagami' is unlikely to come from a partner.

[ooba]

Grey, what do you think of these three posts where MS tries to get Nacho to change his list that leads with {Sotty, Kagami....}

Here's the main posts where its obvious for those who don't have the time to go through other points.

#2235-8: He pleads with Nacho for any changes to his list.

LAST WORDS! LAST WILL! ANY CHANGES???? (I KNOW YOU WILL)

EVERYTHING YOU SAY IS VERY IMPORTANT

IF WE LOSE IT IS ON YOU.

YOU WILL LEAD US TO VICTORY.

BE THE KING AND LORD FOR ALL OF US AND BRING US TO VICTORY

yeah if you have any changes to your plan because of that shitty opportunistic wagon composition (note: mollie + grey on the same wagon, sotty not even voting you) you really should give them before your heart stops

[/quote]

[ooba]

Vote: ABR

While play has been hilariously bad, I can actually see him being town.

It's either {MS, mollie} or {MS, ABR}.

Better to go with MS first.

[ooba]

Grey, I can see a universe where ABR-town convinced himself on Nacho scum (with help from his team mates) and stonewalled us on D2 for Nacho. It might even be this one.

I cannot see any universe where those posts of MS come from a town alignment. Or at least somebody who didn't like Sotty, Kagami leading those lists - hence, scum. He had {Sotty\You} as a scum team. Why would he unhappy with that list?

I think this might be an incorrect course of action where both town you, ABR die.

MS is a great "risk mitigation tactic." - I'm certain he's flipping scum. I wouldn't have switched on Kagami yesterday if this wasn't as clear as the light of day for me.

[ooba]

Ooba, do you think I will survive today after Nacho gave 2 scum
Why are you hard buddying me

I expect you to survive today because
- Wgeurts sort of saw the truth yesterday
- ZZZX has moved towards the light today. He's already called your voting record 100% town.

I don't see you getting lynched today - if town just critically evaluate game state and wagons.

I need you on board for my five votes I need for a scum MS lynch.

[ooba]

By meta dive, you'll actually tunnel in with a view that I'm scum.

Answer me this:

I flip town, you admit you've screwed up and I get the vengeful lynch. YES\NO?

NO.

That deal only applies to GreyICE

If these three conditions apply:

a) You're town

b) Nacho's town
c) You lynch me and ignore my vengeful instructions

expect me to single handedly tank your player ratings because you lost this game for town.

YES.

I will accept responsibility if I lost this game for town.

But I want to add another clause:

d) GreyICE's town.


Give me a lower player rating than Hoopla if that ever comes true.

Deal.

Acknowledged.

i have to suck ooba's dick if you are town

Don't worry - the bolded condition sets you free.

[ooba]

scum need to change tactic since our townblock is now at critical mass and the remaining scum (2) aree critically low mass

So who is scum and what strategy are they changing?

If your certain I'm scum, take me up on my offer. Your town death would crucify scum-me.

I'm going 1:1 with Metal Sonic. Your town bloc is broken and I need to take steps to fix it.

Lynch him. If he flips town, you can kill me tomorrow.

Vote: MS

Just literally open the tab where he pleads to Nacho to change the lists and tell me you don't see scum partner with Sotty\Kagami written all over it.

[ooba]

MS - never before in my Mafiascum career have posts screamed alignment to me as these posts do.

You think I can be reasoned with and shaken off - I cannot.

If ABR is your scumbuddy, he thinks I can be lynched - I cannot.

You're going down - it's just a matter of time.

Grey, what do you think of these three posts where MS tries to get Nacho to change his list that leads with {Sotty, Kagami....}

Here's the main posts where its obvious for those who don't have the time to go through other points.

#2235-8: He pleads with Nacho for any changes to his list.

LAST WORDS! LAST WILL! ANY CHANGES???? (I KNOW YOU WILL)

EVERYTHING YOU SAY IS VERY IMPORTANT

IF WE LOSE IT IS ON YOU.

YOU WILL LEAD US TO VICTORY.

BE THE KING AND LORD FOR ALL OF US AND BRING US TO VICTORY

yeah if you have any changes to your plan because of that shitty opportunistic wagon composition (note: mollie + grey on the same wagon, sotty not even voting you) you really should give them before your heart stops

[ooba]

ooba, you want to 1:1?

here is my accept your duel

VOTE: ooba

Excellent. Let's tango.

I already see you're setting up a defense in case I lose. (and flip town)

in our most recent experience you also pulled this bananas against conftown me

i'd be even more of a moron than i am now to go down with you!

[ooba]

If ABR is your scumbuddy, he thinks I can be lynched - I cannot.

seriously? this is on the table now?



amusing

i want to see what good stuff you have

The stuff is already out there on the table.

Those three fucking posts! Those three goddman posts where Nacho says "Sotty -> Kagami -> Grey -> Zar" and you go: "yeah if you have any changes to your plan because of that shitty opportunistic wagon composition (note: mollie + grey on the same wagon, sotty not even voting you) you really should give them before your heart stops"

I don't if your partner is mollie or ABR but I know you are scum.

So let's do this.

[ooba]

I already see you're setting up a defense in case I lose. (and flip town)

correct. i'm not getting lynched regardless of what you flip. it has always been that way.

Really.

I, ooba - as town, am perfectly willing to get lynched today to see you flip tomorrow.

[ooba]

Your three main pushes this game have been:
- wgeurts in the initial stages
- GreyIce FOR ALMOST THE ENTIRE GAME, where you set up an associative with Sotty
- And my slot

You hard defended Kagami wagon on multiple occasions.

if you're town, i want to slap you into sense that metal sonic is town

I'm sorry - I'm not wavering.

You've already lost this game.

It's 6:2.

If I get you lynched, it's 6:1 tomorrow and its trivially easy to lynch your partner across two days.
If somehow town screw this up and lynch me today (5:2), my vengeful lynch will be you for tomorrow. (5:1) And again game over.

So your best bet is try and get me lynched today. And spread up the FUD so that they don't honour my Vengeful choice.

[ooba]

Ooba, I would rather lynch GreyICE I've decided. The reason, I still don't trust you.

Wgeurts, how many scum bodies do you want me to drop?

This is just the start of my ISO when I replaced in.

Whats my endgame as scum here?
- I come to the thread on D2. Call Nacho town. Shit on my two scum buddies?
- I come in to the game today and do a 1:1 vs someone on the town bloc? I'm not going to survive tomorrow if I'm scum.

Also, when I defended Nacho I was scum with him. When I categorically, have been stating that GreyIce is town, I'm scum with him.

ISO GreyIce, ISO me - it is very clear we have been pushing scum.

Here's my ISO - I stopped at #10 - because it is so clearly WRITTEN IN CAPTIAL LETTERS that I'm town town town.

#5:

“Nacho is town.” “Kagami\Sotty\???\???“

#6:

Nacho-scum would have never pushed Sotty\Kagami\Zar.

#7:

Have you discussed who's scum with Nacho?

#8:

“Nacho and GreyIce are the towniest of town.”
“- Kagami, Sotty, Eddie, Zar literally just lurked out the end of the day
- Kagami used GreyIce suspicion as a crutch to literally comment on nothing else throughout the entire day. “

#9:

“I'm town.

Plus if
a) Either of Nacho or GreyIce are scum
b) If at least one of Sotty or Kagami is NOT scum
I'll stop playing Mafia forever.”

#10:

There's no way I'm for voting or lynching either of these two players. (GreyIce\Nacho) We need scum flips faster. Want to make a reverse deal?

Lynch Sotty today. Should flip scum. If not, lynch Kagami tomorrow. If both flip town, you have my vote for the rest of the game - including a self vote on me.

[ooba]

if greyice is indeed the good scumhunter that he is, and town

then he should invoke that power that his reputation is known for.

this is what the lynch will do for us:

a)

CLEAR ALL PARANOIA, 100%, OF HIS READS.

b) he's going to fuck over the last 2 scum.
c) we follow nacho's plan that have netted us half the scumteam, even me or you individually couldn't hit that score
d) focus away from the distraction that is ooba
e) we have full support of the true town
f) there is no more doubt seeding by any player, town or scum.

When have we heard this fucking logic before?

When Sotty was pushed as an alternative to the Nacho wagon.

[ooba]

MS himself agrees that he fought the Nacho list. (Because the evidence is too clear to ignore in his ISO)

Now he's all out for following it again? "Nacho could have been wrong right?" becomes "Nacho is god again"?

Why?

Because the other two names in that list are town.

Grey is Town, Zar is Town.

[ooba]

You seriously think this post came from someone who is scum buddies with Sotty\Kagami?

Want to make a deal on it?
I'll vote whoever you wish for two days if greyICE/Nacho both flip town?

There's no way I'm for voting or lynching either of these two players. We need scum flips faster. Want to make a reverse deal?

Lynch Sotty today. Should flip scum. If not, lynch Kagami tomorrow. If both flip town, you have my vote for the rest of the game - including a self vote on me.

Want to make a deal on it?
I'll vote whoever you wish for two days if greyICE/Nacho both flip town?

You want a real deal?

Vote Sotty today, if he flips town, I'll vote Nacho or whoever the hell you want tomorrow.

[Chances of Wgeurts accepting: 0%]

At some point you've got to look past the paranoia and make a call. Am I scum or am I town?

If I'm scum, vote me.

If I'm town, vote MS.

[ooba]

Ack, ooba.
How is zar town?

I'm lynching ICE today.

How about another deal, you vote ICE today with me. If she flips scum, I continue to lynch Zar.
If she flips town, you gain my vote to use on who you wish tommorow.

Deal?

Wgeurts, why am I always on the other end of the deals?

Why don't you help me out with a Metal vote today? And if he flips town, I'll give you my vote even to self vote myself tomorrow.

If you had actually gone along with the Sotty deal, Nacho would be alive.
Likewise with the current MS read. His scum flip will clear Grey beyond measure.

[ooba]

MS, if I'm wrong about you and you are town, me and my team are willing to take any hit in ratings as applicable.

But I'm not wavering. Because I'm not wrong.

[ooba]

MS, if I'm wrong about you and you are town, me and my team are willing to take any hit in ratings as applicable.

But I'm not wavering. Because I'm not wrong.

yeah buster i'll get all my teammates to give all your team low ratings if you are the cause of this fuckup

i am the team captain. i am responsible for all my team

Whatever.

[ooba]

Also, if you don't give me your vote tommorow I'll lynch you.
(If he flips town)

You have my word.

If he flips town, my vote is yours.

[ooba]

@ABR\@MS:

While I respect your wishes to vote Nacho, I also think you're wrong and going to be doing my best to get an actual scum lynch today. I will need one of you to switch at deadline.

@Mollie:

You're (and your team) are wrong about GreyIce - Please vote Shotty.

@Kagami:

I'll need you to vote.

you have my sword.

VOTE: sotty

Mollie, once I called and you answered.

I call upon your sword again. I will not lead you astray.

[ooba]

oh actually one more thing

ooba I don't care what your alignment is

and I don't care about what you think of me

you have hit me in a very bad place

as long as town wins in the end, I think that is the goal. and my team will get 1 point

otherwise, since "giving your team bad ratings" is not even a good leverage at all apparently,

i will think of something nasty that won't get me banned

What is this?

I have nothing personal against you. You're a good player.

I even commented that if you're scum - it was an A++ game.

[ooba]

it is not personal

you commented earlier when you were talking to me like I was town that I was gamethrowing

you later tell me when you were talking to me like scum and lined up exactly how I was gamethrowing and peppered in a lot of scum intent.

it does not end well for me regardless!

Well the game throwing bit was when you were about to lynch me. You also said you wouldn't honour vengeful lynches.

If this is about ratings in general, please note I also added this. This never happened so ratings won't be affected?
"c) You lynch me and ignore my vengeful instructions"

As Nacho's lynch has proven, a vengeful lynch strategy is a good one for this setup.

---

You keep saying slaying Sotty and Kagami and riding the cred from that is the best strategy.

It ins't. Scum's best play is to win it on D4 with 5 town:4 scum, and four straight mislynches.

Because the extra mislynches from the lynched scum start adding up. This is today's player list:

Albert B. Rampage (Blue, Meth, Blade and Associates)
GreyICE (TBD)
Metal Sonic (team nocaps)
Ooba Seraphim (The Unviggable Vegetables)
Pirate Mollie EddieFenix (The Leftovers)
wgeurts (Young and Beautiful)
Zar Empire (The Westeros Circlejerk)
ZZZX (TEAM WITH NO NAME)

There are far too many non-bus interactions with flipped scum to clear\remove people from the lynch pool.
- I've mentioned my reasoning about why ZZZX, wgeurts are probably not scum with Kagami
- I think my ISO speaks for itself
- And we'll just have to disagree on GreyIce-Sotty being a bus

So town has 4 mislynches and very little candidates. After two mislynches here, it starts looking at the town bloc. So dragging out the game is bad for scum - even with associated town cred of bus'es and joining the town bloc.

[ooba]

*I have no idea what i should do right now*

*cries in a corner*

Cant trust anyone at this stage

ZZZX, I'm not asking you to trust me.

Give me a conditional lynch - flip me tomorrow if he flips town.

I think I've earned at least that much cred with you?

[ooba]

Nacho explicitly said to follow whoever flips town in reads.

Dont you agree?

I don't. Grey's been pretty town right from the start. Nacho overthought himself on that one.

I will try to form a new town blok - rebuild the game to make sure things do not go wrong.

Before i start is there anyone who doesnt agree to the fact that I am town? Because if that exists I cant really go ahead.

I believe you are town. Also, wouldn't you be better served building the new block after you see this flip?

I'll be honest - I want to push for the win.

I pushed for Sotty D2 because I wanted Nacho by our side to figure stuff out. I push for MS now because his flip has two effects - lynches scum, clears GreyIce.

If we lynch GreyIce today and he flips town, I don't envy trying to get four votes for MS while being bombarded by ABR's (either misguided or scum) push on me + MS's own efforts.

ZZZX, there's no angle for me as scum here. Join the righteous wagon!

[ooba]

Howabout we strike a deal. If grey ice agrees we push for him and if he flips town we go for metal.

Is that fine with you?

frankly ooba i dont trust you but the points you put against metal are pretty valid.

p-edit: This is cool with me.

The 'Lynch MS today. Grey\Me tomorrow plan' is much more solid?

What advantages do you see in a Grey flip? (which IMO is going to be town)

[ooba]

ooba, since you asked me if I was town (even tho it was a bit of a loaded question) and you seemed to want help on the metal wagon can you plz tell me who your other scumspect partner is if it isn't me?

also zar is skating under the radar has any1 else noticed this

If it isn't you, it's ABR all the way.

Although to be frank, I really haven't analyzed Zar. I just feel good about that slot because they voted Kagami sometime in D2 + Empire was the one to bring about the whole 'You lied about tokens' thing on MS - so a MS scum-Zar scum doesn't make that much sense.

[ooba]

ZZZX, let whoever we choose to lynch post their death lists just before they're lynched.

I'm not in favor of both of them posting these lists beforehand. In the unlikely event that both flip town, I don't want scum choosing which mislynch to jump on based on what their vengeful list looks like.

It's not going to be a mislynch.

Well, if it isn't, I actually will have to stop playing!! (Overconfidence has been my Achilles heal so should teach me something about life)

But if it is, let's make it vengeful. I'd like Nacho to state in thread who tomorrows lynch should be.

I, on the other hand, do not want Nacho to state this until we're at the edge.

Because that tells the scum to hop on or back off.

Like this guy.

[ooba]

ZZZX, would you be willing to form a new town bloc with me, you and ooba?
Not today possibly, but tomorrow or even if needed the day after that.

Lol yeah. You're jumping the gun - let MS flip first.

But I like your proactive style

[ooba]

Here's the main posts where its obvious for those who don't have the time to go through other points.

#2235-8: He pleads with Nacho for any changes to his list.

LAST WORDS! LAST WILL! ANY CHANGES???? (I KNOW YOU WILL)

EVERYTHING YOU SAY IS VERY IMPORTANT

IF WE LOSE IT IS ON YOU.

YOU WILL LEAD US TO VICTORY.

BE THE KING AND LORD FOR ALL OF US AND BRING US TO VICTORY

yeah if you have any changes to your plan because of that shitty opportunistic wagon composition (note: mollie + grey on the same wagon, sotty not even voting you) you really should give them before your heart stops

This is not "thoughtful" - this is a scum equivalent of a panic attack.

[ooba]

I'm not too comfortable with that plan as the only alternative I have to {MS, Mollie} is {MS, ABR}

ooba, since you asked me if I was town (even tho it was a bit of a loaded question) and you seemed to want help on the metal wagon can you plz tell me who your other scumspect partner is if it isn't me?

also zar is skating under the radar has any1 else noticed this

If it isn't you, it's ABR all the way.

Although to be frank, I really haven't analyzed Zar. I just feel good about that slot because they voted Kagami sometime in D2 + Empire was the one to bring about the whole 'You lied about tokens' thing on MS - so a MS scum-Zar scum doesn't make that much sense.

ZZZX - we lynch both scum - we win the game. I'm certain MS is scum - the game becomes trivially easy to win tomorrow - all I ask for is one conditional vote.\one-day etc.

[ooba]

also we are following nacho's for this mment

Vote: GreyIce

I need you to talk to me.

Why the change? Do you think I'm scum?

[ooba]

do you trust me enough to let me try to do this?

I trust you enough to call you town.

However, I have more faith in my scum reads than yours right now for particular reasons:

a) I'm a replacement this game. That means I've not been biased towards particular reads\players since I was never part of a major portion of the game. Usually, I tend to have good reads - especially if I replace in after D1.

b) My reads are also firing this game

Can we flash wagon ooba?
Then lynch nacho?

On Page 43.

I'm town.

Plus if
a) Either of Nacho or GreyIce are scum
b) If at least one of Sotty or Kagami is NOT scum
I'll stop playing Mafia forever.

c) Your Zar seems very "one of these have to be scum so let me lynch them" types. I'd like you to consider possible partners and interactions with flipped scum. Right now, you're putting forth no argument forward that makes me go 'Oh damn. I might be wrong about MS. This Zar guy might be scum'

The last two scum are Metal and mollie. Or Metal and ABR. I implore you to sheep me on this. If I'm wrong about this, I'll give wgeurts my vote - I'll even shut up for the rest of the game if you want me to.

[ooba]

UNVOTE:
Sonic you are town right?
If you were town and accept to be killed for the good of town then write down your venge if you were town and self vote? If you were town i will not change on that . and will do what i can to win this game for you.

I saw that in pedit.

But didn't feel like wasting the effort to type all that!

[ooba]

VOTECOUNT 5.2

Metal Sonic (2) - Ooba, wgeurts
GreyICE (2) -

Metal Sonic, Pirate Mollie

Ooba (1) -

Albert B. Rampage

Not Voting (3) - Zar, ZZZX, GreyICE

With 8 alive, it is 5 to lynch.

Deadline is 4/28 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-28 18:00:00).

We're, likely, not going to get any of these three votes.

@Zar,@Grey: I need you to vote MS. If he flips town, you can kill me tomorrow. Thanks.

[ooba]

Yes clearly you're not scum with MS.

Mollie, we can win this.
Are you town?

yes. and I wanna lynch metal but ugh grey.

mollie my beloved princess!

I am sorry for yelling at you this morning! I was suffering from a terrible case of the mood swings and your posts greatly offended me... especially when I know that your posts are coming from town and are not just scum posturing it hurts every1!!!

I just want you to know that I love you and I hope that we can be a loving pair together again !


can we please play nice tia

^ this post is pretty disgusting when you think about what abr said earlier.

this is the same exact shit you have been doing all game in which I wld rather die than be within a ten foot of a town block radius with you in it.

why the fuck are metal and abr in a town block that anybody is listening to when they just lynched hoppla and then nacho? and took great pains to interfere with my process to sort out nacho?

They haev done a lot of bullshit. I know.

But they are town. That much havent changed. Do you think one of them is scum?

I think metal might be and I asked you if his play in this game reminded you of organic chemistry and you ignored it.

oddly I have faith in abr we might not like each other but I actually trust in him being town. hence why I am lynching sotty with him at this point.

But when

@ABR\@MS:

While I respect your wishes to vote Nacho, I also think you're wrong and going to be doing my best to get an actual scum lynch today. I will need one of you to switch at deadline.

@Mollie:

You're (and your team) are wrong about GreyIce - Please vote Shotty.

@Kagami:

I'll need you to vote.

you have my sword.

VOTE: sotty

Mollie, once I called and you answered.

I call upon your sword again. I will not lead you astray.

You go...

metal is doing my head. he is aTeing a lot and I keep getting these niggles and gut wise he just feels like scum but eh, I put stock in nacho's read on him and I dunno he seems like he genuinely believes that I am scumreading him cos he let abr and grey beat up on me and plus his reasoning for letting it happen cos he didn't know what to do looks genuine as fuck. it once happened with notty and notty gave the exact same response and they are in the same age range with similar thinking processes so after thinking about it and trying to get into metal's head I can see his motivations coming from town.

[ooba]

greyIce, call the shots.

so I am going to stick with nacho's plan cos I think in that moment the game became pretty crystal clear and I know how that can happen especially in the face of a lynch.

VOTE: grey

Scum's game plan is lynch Grey according to 'Nacho's plan' and Grey's vengeful lynch is ABR. That's the only way they get to 4:2 and somehow pull something off. It's not too hard to see.

I'm town.

ABR is scum.

Give me 48 hours.

[ooba]

okay so through "poe" you had it down to metal and I, but there has been no contingency that if metal flips scum I wld somehow magically be town in your mind. this is the first time that I have heard you say this and it seemed from your posts that you had and metal and I as BOTH scum cos you said, "metal and mollie are the final scum".

so at what point did you decide that we cld not be scum together?

Lol. I was being sarcastic when I said "Yes clearly you're not scum with MS."

[ooba]

Honestly nobody should resist this except for scum, as they know loosing one member is game over.

Wgeurts 10/10 yet again!

Can you see who's resisting?

[ooba]

You can not break your honour actually putting your vote on me but eventually we lynch real scum then your deal is not valid the next day

Lol.

Wgeurts -

"If MS flips town today, my vote is yours for D6. Even if I'm scum with GreyIce - I will sheep you if you vote GreyIce. I will sheep you - even if you vote me. This is my promise to you"

[ooba]

okay so through "poe" you had it down to metal and I, but there has been no contingency that if metal flips scum I wld somehow magically be town in your mind. this is the first time that I have heard you say this and it seemed from your posts that you had and metal and I as BOTH scum cos you said, "metal and mollie are the final scum".

so at what point did you decide that we cld not be scum together?

Lol. I was being sarcastic when I said "Yes clearly you're not scum with MS."

why do you keep dodging my questions?

cos you totally are and you still have not explained my motivations for being scum in this game?

Your motivations or lack thereof for being scum will be clear with an MS flip.

If he flips scum, your entire D3\D4 of reading him as "Oh this person is scummy", "I wouldn't touch a town block with him with a 10ft pole" contrasted with D5's turnaround is all the evidence I need.

[ooba]

if greyice is conftown to you

BECAUSE greyice's reads resonate with you on all levels (this is the vaguest argument you have given for GI-town. It was like magic. Like all of your reads, apparently),

then you should give your vote to GI

even if he is not lynched,

he dictates your vote.

why are you not doing that?



the town thing is to let him decide rather than you strongarming everything like an oracle

do you think he's stupid?

do you think he's scum?

do you think you're better than him?

I think he's conftown. But why in gods name would I give my vote to him?

I think my read on you being scum is more on point than his own opinions.

You've clearly run out of options:
- First, it was ratings - apparently if you're town, mine are going to be down - yeah sure
- Then, it was "Why don't you consult team mates?"
- Now it's "If GreyIce is conftown to you, why don't you listen to him?"

There's no scenario where I change my vote from you today.

[ooba]

Why don't you go ahead and lynch me today then?

Vengeful lynch choice: MS

[ooba]

While I don't appreciate your framing of my answer as "i am better than GreyICE" - I just think my game state read makes more sense seeing whats happening here.

---

@Mollie

: You replaced into Eddie's slot at a time where it was being scum read by Nacho for you calling Nacho 'town' out of nowhere. I can see the scum motivation there. You can throw numbers around like "Nacho reads me as town 99% of the time" - but in this game - nobody is that accurate.

But it gives you this exact WIFOM defense. "Would I really replace into a game in such a situation"

MS is pushed by me.

You've read that slot as scum over the last two days.

- I've posted a case on MS. You haven't interacted with me over the case at all. Or even commented on it.

- Your first instinct is to be more concerned with who I thought were other possible scum buddy choices with MS
- And when called to vote said scum, your team suddenly reads him as "Conf town" and ooba who reminded you of town-me in "Lost Room" Mafia suddenly became scum for "inorganic reads"?

This isn't just your "waffling on my metal read" - Scum have nearly lost if they lose another scum member. What I see is a partner who was mild bussing before - now pulling every stop to make sure an imminent lynch doesn't happen.

[ooba]

I am asking you to explain the exact scum motivation for replacing into this slot in a game that some1 who can read me 99% of the time in like 50 games and you are completely unable to do so.

Eddie was being scum read by Nacho for the throwaway comment that you called Nacho "town".

A wagon was building up - you might have been lynched. There's scum motivation.

Votecount 2.9

Nachomamma8 (3) - wgeurts, Metal Sonic, Albert B. Rampage
EddieFenix (3) - Nachomamma8, GreyICE, Sotty7
Kagami (2) - Zar, ZZZX
GreyICE (1) - EddieFenix

Not Voting (2) - Kagami, Ooba

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

Deadline is 4/18 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-18 18:00:00).

---

If we're talking about scum motivation - what's mine for doing the 1:1 vs MS? When I've just had two partners lynched back to back?

I have an airtight case against MS. I know he'll flip scum.

If you're town, I'll know for sure tomorrow. I haven't looked at why Sotty voted you and your replace in and reactions yet. Because - I already have one scum and I'm going to get him lynched.

But even you can see why I find your resistance to the wagon and total about turn on both MS\me scummy.

[ooba]

Mollie twice wgeurts has reached out to you and twice you have not responded.

I'm not having this day shift from 'MS is scum' to why 'Mollie could be scum'

I'm getting MS lynched. He is going to flip scum. Feel free to hop on.

If you think I'm scum, feel free to vote me. I'm going to vengeful lynch MS.

[ooba]

I've explained how
- Your turn around on MS is scummy
- Your replace in could have had scum motivations
But, yes, I am dodging your questions.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=200

Ooba, I don't think you answered this.

ooba - i've asked this like three times and apparently you can't see what I type. So, mind telling me why you've been town reading skitty since early on?
please and thank you.

Ooba is bullshitting his reads and it's more obvious than obvious.

edit: I think that ooba is bullshitting his reads. I think it's the most basic way to determine ooba's alignment and he proved it in his posts in day one.

@ ooba

why are you ignoring me. I am asking you point blank.

ooba it is me, mollie. whom you have ignored.

19. ooba = Ryu Hazuki - Town Mason Cop via night kill N2

12. Southern Belles (pirate mollie + Tammy) = Mech Zangief - Mafia Macho Bulletproof via night kill N2

[ooba]

no, you have not explained how my turn on metal is scummy, all you keep saying is that it is scummy w/o ever giving reasons as to why.

You've read that slot as scum over the last two days.

- I've posted a case on MS. You haven't interacted with me over the case at all. Or even commented on it.
- Your first instinct is to be more concerned with who I thought were other possible scum buddy choices with MS

- And when called to vote said scum, your team suddenly reads him as "Conf town" and ooba who reminded you of town-me in "Lost Room" Mafia suddenly became scum for "inorganic reads"?

This isn't just your "waffling on my metal read" -

Scum have nearly lost if they lose another scum member. What I see is a partner who was mild bussing before - now pulling every stop to make sure an imminent lynch doesn't happen.

[ooba]

still noting that you are failing to demonstrate how I can be scum with

sotty.

or metal since that is your current scumread.

I'm sorry. Did you not read the last post? I coloured it too.

"X has been scum reading Y on D1, D2, D3, D4.

A big Y wagon\suspicion is building up - X suddenly does an about turn on Y - calls him town and calls Y's attacker scum."

I keep pointing this out and you keep saying "But you haven't shown how X and Y can be scum toghether"

---

MS, I am obviously pussyfooting about.

I'm going 1:1 with Metal Sonic. Your town bloc is broken and I need to take steps to fix it.

Lynch him. If he flips town, you can kill me tomorrow.

Vote: MS

Just literally open the tab where he pleads to Nacho to change the lists and tell me you don't see scum partner with Sotty\Kagami written all over it.

I've convinced half my town. I'm confident on convincing the others. Let's get you lynched today.

[ooba]

@MS:

b)

Nacho's list reactions

Nacho's death list had two scum at the start of the list. Now I re-read ZZZX's reaction and it was painfully calm - didn't act like how a scum dude would react to two scum buddies heading the list. Now just see MS's reaction:

Spoiler:

My personal death list is:

Sotty ---> Kagami ---> GreyICE ---> Zar.

Are you going to follow those names when I flip town, Grey?

Step 1: Ignore Nacho directions - set up a grey mislynch.

I really want to be lynched guys.

Not happening. You just town cleared yourself and we're about to lynch your scumread Nacho.

can we then lynch grey?

cos that is what my team terribly wants.

Yes. Grey after nacho

#2205: Nacho specifically quotes MS above post and says “No. Follow the plan.”

#2207: MS specifically asks about the “Did you discard page 56 plan cause that one was actually the plan I was going to follow! I think you know that I dislike dynamic plans!”

Then there’s the Kagami hammer and even more defense of the slot

The funny thing was it may possibly come from town!


You can get a low player evaluation too!

#2215: Nacho reiterates “Follow the plan.”

#2216: MS: “But you changed reads! I can't follow a read changer!!!!!! HELP ME ASDGHHJKKLL”

#2219: Nacho: “This is my dying breath, my time taken away by a scum quickhammer. Do not deviate, do not delay, do not get distracted.”

#2220: MS: Talks about other plans Nacho came up with

#2225: “OKAY I WILL FOLLOW YOUR PLAN SENPAI”

Starts setting up a “Oh what if Nacho is wrong angle” that he pursues on D3

#2226:

EVEN THOUGH I THINK GREYICE SHOULD DIE IN A PIT FIRE FIRST



BUT NACHO TOWN IS ALWAYS RIGHT YAS?

#2235-8: He fucking pleads with Nacho for any changes to his list.

LAST WORDS! LAST WILL! ANY CHANGES???? (I KNOW YOU WILL)

EVERYTHING YOU SAY IS VERY IMPORTANT

IF WE LOSE IT IS ON YOU.

YOU WILL LEAD US TO VICTORY.

BE THE KING AND LORD FOR ALL OF US AND BRING US TO VICTORY

yeah if you have any changes to your plan because of that shitty opportunistic wagon composition (note: mollie + grey on the same wagon, sotty not even voting you) you really should give them before your heart stops

D3:
He votes for Sotty but suddenly descends into an *Argument* with mollie

#2339: Suddenly he wants Sotty to come into the thread and town it up so that they don’t have to follow Nacho’s plan. Remember, tis is the same person WHOS been on every single scum list of his, along with a detailed case on why GreyIce-Sotty are scum together.

#2341: You have the ‘What if Nacho is wrong’ series

this is like jumping off a building and hoping that jesus nacho will carry us to the heavens!


let's not think about what happens if this goes wrong!

#2347: “i was talking to myself about what if sotty was town.”

[ooba]

@Mollie:
Lets talk about thought progression:
- You've scum read MS all throughout
- I post a case on him
- Even if you did heed your team's words on MS - you haven't approached the particulars of the case at all. It's obviously something that can help you make up your mind better on that slot.
- Alternatively, if you think I'm scum - that's the first thing you should have taken a look at - because a scum-me's case on town-MS should have some gaping holes in it.

Instead:
- You accuse me of ignoring questions I have already answered.
- You accuse me of "lynchable candidates instead of trying to sort the game", when I have chosen MS - a person nearly everyone had as universal town before the case.
- You accuse me of not sorting the game, when I've already analysed who can and cannot be scum based on interactions

Just because you keep repeating 'thoughts are bullshit' or 'thoughts don't have progression' doesn't make it true.

And both this and the 'ignoring' bit are an exact repeat of your scum MO from the last game we played together.

If think I'm scum, why don't you vote MS now? A town MS flip would guarantee you being able to get me lynched tomorrow

Why do you keep ignoring wgeurts?

[ooba]

MS is scum.

ZZZX, resolve the issue now.

The Zar lynch is stupid for many reasons: His first action on D4 was to analyse Sotty interactions - clear me and call Grey Conf town? Whats his endgame at this?

[ooba]

pp-edit: ooba shut up and think: if metal is scum we can weed out his partners easily now. if not then we already won., also what if you both were town? what if the lurkers are scum? stop and think about it, my plan is mainly put so if any of you is scum they cant win

so follow now.

Don't ask me to shut up.

If you want to weed out his partners, at least START WITH THE MOST PROBABLE ONE FROM INTERACTIONS TODAY. Vote Mollie - not Zar.

[ooba]

If you want to weed out his partners, at least START WITH THE MOST PROBABLE ONE FROM INTERACTIONS TODAY. Vote Mollie - not Zar.

mollie is towny and is active. zar is not. keeping mollie alive can help if she was scum. keeping zar is fucking useless

Why not just lynch via least-most posts then?

Zar as MS scumbuddy literally makes ZERO sense.
- Empire brought up the whole "lied about tokens" thing

[ooba]

VOTE: zar

can mollie and abr be the ones who vote PLEASE it makes me feel safe

He's been clutching at straws - making threats - stupid arguments - ATE.

And you hand some stupid plan on a silver platter.

And as soon as you vote zar - he votes zar.

Come on ZZZX. This person is not town.

[ooba]

Okey I am not killing anyone but zar right now,. if he flips scum then we lynch ooba as a 100% partner

You go ahead and do the following

Lynch Zar: Will flip town
Lynch Grey: Will flip town
Lynch Wgeurts: Will flip town

Call me back when you want to lynch scum.

[ooba]

please do you think my really simple and short zar case is wrong?

Zar is town.

The only non MS vote you will get from this slot today is mollie - and that too I'm not 100% because of ABR.

[ooba]

Lynch Grey: Will flip town

this is hte only one i am sure of.

wge is leaning town

zar? dont give me that shit here. unless you are directly whiteknighting you have no other proof

No proof. Look at his goddamn ISO.

Stop with this simplistic "He's not posted much. He's scum" bullshit.

TOWN
ABR
Metal Sonic
GreyICE
wgeurts
ZZZX
Nachomamma
Hoopla
Kagami/Silver
Eddie
Seraphim
Sotty
SCUM

These are the only fucking votes in his ISO.

VOTE: Sotty

VOTE: Kagami

Vote: Kagami

Tier 1: ABR, GreyICE, Metal Sonic
Tier 2: ZZZX, wgeurts, Nacho
Tier 3: Kagami, Sotty, ooba, mollie

Who the fuck is he scum with?

[ooba]

listen I am not lynching with relationship to be a scum partner to a living person. I am doing it for someone who is as useless as crap in a nightless. a town will never do nothing in a nightless unless he deserves to die. See hoopla

also do you think his lurking is fine? guess who the 2 lower posts were? Both fucking scum

lets finish this with oen thing: anyone less than 100 posts since hte start of the game deserves to get lynched. its clear as fuck.

p-edit: i have been trying to make him vote zar for half the damn game, i am pretty sure thats not a silver platter. he just follows the plan. so I want YOU to do the fucking SAME.

You come to a 120 page game and vote a slot that is so obviously town on these weak ass activity reasons?

I'm sick and tired of being called scum with every single person I call town because it SHOULD BE OBVIOUS TO YOU IF YOU JUST READ THE FUCKING GAME.

- Nacho was town
- GI is town
- Zar is town

So if Zar flips scum - I'm partners with him?

What if he flips town - do I get your vote for the rest of the game?

[ooba]

p-edit: he is not clearly town, and no you wont get my vote, I will not let my vote be controled by anyone.

Then the same goes for me.

You will get my vote for your stupid Zar wagon.

[ooba]

ooba ill be honest. I town read you BUT

My reasons were 10 times better than yours.

Your reasons boil down to a 'He's lurking. Let's lynch him'

Mine boil down to what can only be described a panic attack to Nacho's list that had two scum leading the list.

One analysis takes into account all interactions with flipped etc. Other is a lazy metric that has no relevance when not taken in context.

[ooba]

i agree about many points you show here.

but for now i want to keep him alive. until either zar flips scum or we flip one scum and we can flip you both (At that case your sacrifice will be for the glory of the town m8)

p-edit :

If you respect my points and my case, and still want to try to lynch scum while keeping MS alive - lynch Mollie, not Zar.

[ooba]

Town is going to win this game since I can't be night killed. But @ZZZX: your actions might have delayed it by about 2-3 days.

I will not join a Zar wagon.

[ooba]

Town is going to win this game since I can't be night killed. But @ZZZX: your actions might have delayed it by about 2-3 days.

I will not join a Zar wagon.

if you know we WILL win then what the fuck are you losing is you followed me who is town.

That works both ways.

You refuse to follow me. You insult me by asking me to 'Shut up' when I put up counterarguments.

I will still be here when you eat humble crow from a couple of town mislynches. Don't expect to me jump into said mislynches though.

[ooba]

Whatever floats your goat then. Its up2you to do what you want to do. The thing I learned in mafia from a few years is to push for what i believe in.

Likewise.

You go do whatever it is you think you have to do.

"The scum team is {MS, Mollie} with a very slight chance of {MS, ABR}" - {D5, ooba}

I'm out of this thread for the foreseeable future.

[ooba]

ooba link me most recent town and scum game

Scum: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=60869
Scum: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=59569

Town: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=60070
Town: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=61141

[ooba]

I think I've had enough of this. I'm not afraid of dying if it gets town the victory.

Vote: Ooba

Lets lynch me and get me my vengeful lynch.

[ooba]

Hello Alchemist - welcome to the game.

[ooba]

Alchemist,
- Sotty and Kagami were lynched
- The next two names in Nacho's list were GreyIce and Zar
- However, if you take a look at GreyIce's voting patterns and ISO - it's clear that he's most probably not scum with either Sotty or Kagami.

- I personally think MS is scum. Please take some time out to read that.

- Nacho's plan is bad because we are lynching someone who should be near conf-town from his ISO - because 'Nacho said it'. Plus I have a feeling he's going to choose to venge your slot.

Grey, I can see a universe where ABR-town convinced himself on Nacho scum (with help from his team mates) and stonewalled us on D2 for Nacho. It might even be this one.

I cannot see any universe where those posts of MS come from a town alignment. Or at least somebody who didn't like Sotty, Kagami leading those lists - hence, scum. He had {Sotty\You} as a scum team. Why would he unhappy with that list?

I think this might be an incorrect course of action where both town you, ABR die.

MS is a great "risk mitigation tactic." - I'm certain he's flipping scum. I wouldn't have switched on Kagami yesterday if this wasn't as clear as the light of day for me.

Now I have as a possible second less likelier scum partner to MS after mollie this game. But if it is {MS, Mollie} - it leaves us in an unenviable 4:2 position.

- ZZZX plan is bad because it has MS in the town block

I'm willing to go 1:1 with MS today with the rider that I will be lynched tomorrow if he flips town.

[ooba]

Cya later
@wge this is what everyone said to me. i have closed my heard and no emotional attack will affect me. i will selfishly do what i please to get whatever chance to win i can get. because i am fucking tired of changing my mind in circles for the whle fucking game.

So you're tired of playing the game of Mafia?

Your plan is the equivalent of an ostrictch burying its hand in the sand.

[ooba]

Are we still on Nacho Plan or ZZZX plan? I'm confused about what just happened.

This is what happened:
- ZZZX wants to lynch Zar because
"before we sort out actives we can weed out lurking scum so we can have a pure scum hunting. we have enough lynches to make sure it works"
"he didnt do fucking shit. he can change his mind and trick if he was scum. esp if he had a team mate. what he said doesnt really mean crap"

When I countered that there are better lynch candidates:
"mollie is towny and is active. zar is not. keeping mollie alive can help if she was scum. keeping zar is fucking useless"

I had a couple of points to say regarding Zar

The Zar lynch is stupid for many reasons: His first action on D4 was to analyse Sotty interactions - clear me and call Grey Conf town? Whats his endgame at this?

Lynch Grey: Will flip town

this is hte only one i am sure of.

wge is leaning town

zar? dont give me that shit here. unless you are directly whiteknighting you have no other proof

No proof. Look at his goddamn ISO.

Stop with this simplistic "He's not posted much. He's scum" bullshit.

TOWN
ABR
Metal Sonic
GreyICE
wgeurts
ZZZX
Nachomamma
Hoopla
Kagami/Silver
Eddie
Seraphim
Sotty
SCUM

These are the only fucking votes in his ISO.

VOTE: Sotty

VOTE: Kagami

Vote: Kagami

Tier 1: ABR, GreyICE, Metal Sonic
Tier 2: ZZZX, wgeurts, Nacho
Tier 3: Kagami, Sotty, ooba, mollie

Who the fuck is he scum with?

[ooba]

@Alchemist

: I don't know if you're the scum with MS.

If you aren't and town, I invite you to read my points on MS. I also want you to particularly go through his reactions throughout the day.

I thought I won't get my lynch because I needed 5 votes and ZZZX feels hell bent on avoiding resolving my suspicion on MS. If you are town, I think we can swing it.

Let me know what you think.

Unvote. Vote: MS

[ooba]

We are lynching zar, and if he flips scum ooba is dying no matter what.

Stop hyping up your own paranoia.

I've called
- GreyICE (TBD)
- wgeurts (Young and Beautiful)
- Zar Empire (The Westeros Circlejerk)
- ZZZX (TEAM WITH NO NAME)
the following people town.

I've even disuaded GreyIce from a possible town ABR
- Alchemist Albert B. Rampage (Blue, Meth, Blade and Associates)

Which leaves:
- Metal Sonic (team nocaps)
- Pirate Mollie EddieFenix (The Leftovers)

What the hell is my endgame as scum here in a 6:2?
- I've also said I'll kill myself if MS flips town.
- I'm also willing to lynch myself if MS flips the next day

[ooba]

If you want to weed out his partners, at least START WITH THE MOST PROBABLE ONE FROM INTERACTIONS TODAY. Vote Mollie - not Zar.

mollie is towny and is active. zar is not. keeping mollie alive can help if she was scum. keeping zar is fucking useless

Why not just lynch via least-most posts then?

Zar as MS scumbuddy literally makes ZERO sense.
- Empire brought up the whole "lied about tokens" thing

you still haven't explained as to how me as a scumbuddy to sotty and if I recollect you haven't even looked at our interactions nor revisited the flow of the attempted sotty lynch on d2. you also haven't explained why metal and i make sense as a scumteam. like I have been waiting for ages for this and all you keep doing is saying "you're scummy" with no actual reasons.

You are a broken record.

Spoiler:

no, you have not explained how my turn on metal is scummy, all you keep saying is that it is scummy w/o ever giving reasons as to why.

You've read that slot as scum over the last two days.

- I've posted a case on MS. You haven't interacted with me over the case at all. Or even commented on it.
- Your first instinct is to be more concerned with who I thought were other possible scum buddy choices with MS

- And when called to vote said scum, your team suddenly reads him as "Conf town" and ooba who reminded you of town-me in "Lost Room" Mafia suddenly became scum for "inorganic reads"?

This isn't just your "waffling on my metal read" -

Scum have nearly lost if they lose another scum member. What I see is a partner who was mild bussing before - now pulling every stop to make sure an imminent lynch doesn't happen.

still noting that you are failing to demonstrate how I can be scum with

sotty.

or metal since that is your current scumread.

I'm sorry. Did you not read the last post? I coloured it too.

"X has been scum reading Y on D1, D2, D3, D4.

A big Y wagon\suspicion is building up - X suddenly does an about turn on Y - calls him town and calls Y's attacker scum."

I keep pointing this out and you keep saying "But you haven't shown how X and Y can be scum toghether"

---

MS, I am obviously pussyfooting about.

I'm going 1:1 with Metal Sonic. Your town bloc is broken and I need to take steps to fix it.

Lynch him. If he flips town, you can kill me tomorrow.

Vote: MS

Just literally open the tab where he pleads to Nacho to change the lists and tell me you don't see scum partner with Sotty\Kagami written all over it.

I've convinced half my town. I'm confident on convincing the others. Let's get you lynched today.

I have four people who I can literally clear as not-scum based on interactions:
- Grey
- Zar
- Wgeu
- ZZZX

I know MS is scum.

Which leaves you, ABR as possible partners to MS.

From memory ABR's D3 Kagami vote and wanting Nacho to start the list with Kagami throw some town points that way so I place him above you.

I need to analyse both for a closer call. I literally have

ZERO MOTIVATION TO DO THIS

before I see MS flip. My energies are now spent on avoiding stupid town lynches and getting scum lynched. I'll do day 6 stuff on day 6. Stop repeating the same questions over and over. I am not going to analyse your-Sotty interactions because I don't particularly care right now.

I have one mission and one mission only: lynch the obvious scum that is MS.

[ooba]

Ooba, lynch zar with us.
If he flips town it'll back up your reads.

I'm not joining something I know for sure is a mislynch.

I've been on point so far. What I'd like is a little faith.

Ok. Done with Day 1. Here are my thoughts:

- Kagami, Sotty, Eddie, Zar literally just lurked out the end of the day
- Kagami used GreyIce suspicion as a crutch to literally comment on nothing else throughout the entire day.
- This is similar to wgeurt's MS suspicion at the start of the game - but his play improved as the day continued - I liked the Kagami vote when Hoopla's wagon looked like it might die down.

-

Nacho and GreyIce are the towniest of town

. I'm no expert scum hunter, but I am good at town hunting. Their conviction is extremely genuine. People hold Nacho to some godlike town standard but there are many nuggets of town here:
a) His reads look spot on
b) The "I don't know how many scum bodies I have to drop"
c) Saying this is good to GreyIce's "Let's lynch Kagami today. If she flips town, I'll help you with Nacho tomorrow" to ABR

I'll drop this now and will update after Day 2.

Vote: Sotty