Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]
-
-
wgeurts They/ThemPokédexThey/Them
- Pokédex
- Pokédex
- Posts: 4771
- Joined: September 15, 2014
- Pronoun: They/Them
- Location: The Netherlands
You are?
:/
Then I'd go for Gamma with one of the other two?
Who else is confirmed town?"i agree we should have a rule against wgeurts" -Davsto
"let's have 2 rules against wgeurts" -DeathRowKitty
-
-
Gammagooey Glad Hatter
- Glad Hatter
- Glad Hatter
- Posts: 7608
- Joined: October 24, 2009
Also I'm invoking my power as Guy Who Has Opinions to say that the default response to I'm catching up over the next X days should be "Post opinions or fuck off".
Opinions on just recent stuff or just isos or whatever is fine, as long as you don't assume that it's the one truth to rule this game that everyone else should follow, and preventing the game from becoming an apathy-filled wasteland of replacements who never bother catching up is something I'd like to avoid.
p-edit:oh hey things are dead
i'm fine with this.-
-
Gammagooey Glad Hatter
- Glad Hatter
- Glad Hatter
- Posts: 7608
- Joined: October 24, 2009
-
-
hitogoroshi ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- Posts: 3450
- Joined: February 24, 2008
- Location: shiftless layabout
VC 141 (Major Day 3, VC 5)
(6)Formerfish:vezokpiraka, Shadoweh, Cheetory6, singersigner, Gammagooey, Untrod Tripod [Lynch!]
(1)wgeurts:mastin2
(4)Not Voting:AngryPidgeon, Formerfish, ChannelDelibird, wgeurts(Untrod Tripod)
With 11 players alive it's 6 to lynch. Major Day Three will end Tuesday, June 10th, at 9PM CST.
"Don’t buy a dozen eggs if you just want a hardboiled egg. Don’t buy a head of lettuce if you just want a salad. Don’t buy eggs and lettuce if you want egg salad because those are not the right ingredients." -Julius Bloop-
-
hitogoroshi ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- Posts: 3450
- Joined: February 24, 2008
- Location: shiftless layabout
Spoiler: Power and unity.
The second lynch of the day has occurred onFormerfish.
The Third Major Day has ended. The Third Major Night has begun.
PM me your actions by the deadline. If you edit your PM, I use the timestamp of the edit to determine if you made it in by deadline.
Remember, if you have to match Sign for your ability, you need to specify which Sign you're submitting along with the ability.
Major Night Three will end Sunday, June 7th, at 9PM CST.
Last edited by hitogoroshi on Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total."Don’t buy a dozen eggs if you just want a hardboiled egg. Don’t buy a head of lettuce if you just want a salad. Don’t buy eggs and lettuce if you want egg salad because those are not the right ingredients." -Julius Bloop-
-
hitogoroshi ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- Posts: 3450
- Joined: February 24, 2008
- Location: shiftless layabout
-
-
hitogoroshi ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- Posts: 3450
- Joined: February 24, 2008
- Location: shiftless layabout
Spoiler: A final talk in the forest.
Untrod Tripod was killed Major Night Three.
AngryPidgeon was killed Major Night Three.
A win condition has been achieved.Creationhas won the game.Last edited by hitogoroshi on Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:07 am, edited 3 times in total."Don’t buy a dozen eggs if you just want a hardboiled egg. Don’t buy a head of lettuce if you just want a salad. Don’t buy eggs and lettuce if you want egg salad because those are not the right ingredients." -Julius Bloop-
-
hitogoroshi ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- Posts: 3450
- Joined: February 24, 2008
- Location: shiftless layabout
Roles:
Names given are the original recipients of the role.
I think I reworded one or two of these abilities for clarity when I sent out these PMs, so they might not be the canon versions here. Let me know if there's one to update for postgame clarity.
Titusis:Spoiler: Viktor Jarvik, the Skulk
ActionDanis:Spoiler: Perra Sahn, the Prophet
Marquisis:Spoiler: Lem, the Brute
DeasVailis:Spoiler: bladecandlestone, the Nemesis
UntrodTripodis:Spoiler: Alquin ro Said, the Inhibitor
Mastin2is:Spoiler: Brandon Tar, the Savior
Zaris:Spoiler: Adderbine, the Assassin
ChannelDelibirdis:Spoiler: Cepria Rulk, the Harrier
GuyInFreezeris:Spoiler: Kid, the Mimic
Antiherois:Spoiler: Seneca Thalworth, the Scout
Ceetory6is:Spoiler: Fredrick ro Quan, the Seer
Gammagooeyis:Spoiler: Cenna Marigold, the Source
Aronisis:Spoiler: Lonesome Louie, the Empath
Bulbazakis:Spoiler: Veleya Zolotavvi, the Bulwark
Shadowehis:Spoiler: Traig, the Nomad
Tammyis:Spoiler: Teina Foss, the Blacksmith
Espeonageis:
Spoiler: Meidarc of Sulwin, the Prince
T S Ois:Spoiler: Crog Kellind, the Kennelman
fferylltis:Spoiler: Alira Watchwall, the Sentinel
Vezokpirakais:Spoiler: Tyne Woi, the Alchemist
Fakeclaims:
Whilleret Yaidan Algerfaun Tepperdos was chosen randomly from the "VT" PMs. The others were custom fakeclaims.
Spoiler: Eledora Fawn, the Oracle
Spoiler: Carvalos Tiedrich, the Priest
Spoiler: Ki Wyvern, the Warden
Spoiler: Whilleret Yaidan Algerfaun Tepperdos, the Firebrand"Don’t buy a dozen eggs if you just want a hardboiled egg. Don’t buy a head of lettuce if you just want a salad. Don’t buy eggs and lettuce if you want egg salad because those are not the right ingredients." -Julius Bloop-
-
hitogoroshi ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- Posts: 3450
- Joined: February 24, 2008
- Location: shiftless layabout
I was gonna post about more about the setups design but I don't really have it in me, so I'll just unlock this for anyone who wants to talk about the setup / the game.
I could open up the PT where I designed it so you can see how it started, if there's any interest?"Don’t buy a dozen eggs if you just want a hardboiled egg. Don’t buy a head of lettuce if you just want a salad. Don’t buy eggs and lettuce if you want egg salad because those are not the right ingredients." -Julius Bloop-
-
Patrick Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Rantbuddy
- Posts: 7475
- Joined: May 3, 2006
- Location: England
During the game the minor days felt frustrating, but that could just have been due to the length of the game and the lack of early scumflips.
To repeat what others said: the flavour in this game was top notch.Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face-
-
fferyllt Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 20502
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Location: Left Coast
I thought the flavor and the mechanics were amazing. I'd be interested in reading the design notes pt.-
-
hitogoroshi ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- Posts: 3450
- Joined: February 24, 2008
- Location: shiftless layabout
Here it is! I forgot I did the very first design bits in the general mod cabal. Let me quote them here, to show what was on my mind when I started the splinter topic.
hitogoroshi wrote:Normally the aesthetic I like to have scum have power if they're coordinated as opposed to a town with diffuse power that could trip over itself, but I think TM favors an opposite aesthetic. Not having a scum QT is maybe too far, but I think I want that SORT of thing present thematically. I don't want to force people to engage BOTH with their team-team and their scum-team - I'd much rather have some dynamic of limited information AMONG the scumteam that the team-team is desperately trying to help their scum player decode.
Other aesthetic guidelines: a high-kill setup is less bad than usual, because a.) player elimination is less bad and b.) it keeps the gameclock better synced with the rest of TM. Neighborizing/masonzing should be avoided. Logic puzzles and other high-speculation elements are much healthier here than usual (any one player may dislike logic puzzles, but hopefully one player per team at least can engage with them).
This sound about right so far? Other thematic/aesthetic concerns?
hitogoroshi wrote:zoraster wrote:I actually think high-kill setup is a really bad idea for the confines of Team Mafia. Keep in mind that every time a player is eliminated from the game, his or her ability to influence the win or loss of that game is greatly diminished, so having people eliminated earlier rather than later is a bad thing. In fact, night kills are a fundamental weakness of team mafia, but it's one we accept.
Well then, it's not really thekillsthat are the problem as much asearly elimination, then.
If we could find a clever way around the no-flip blues we could potentially have something cool in a poisoning-esque flavored setup that doesn't eliminate players in the beginning but has a lot of players leaving in mid/end game.
Maybe it'll help to format it like this:
Major Design Goals
- The standard ones - fair, as open as possible
- All players can substantially influence the games outcome
- Complex enough to encourage working with the team to "crack the code"
- As a corollary, incentive to NOT share information with the town at large, to really focus on the team as the unit. Ideally, we would see EVERY team topic trying to figure out the same "secret", and not the town-at-large figuring it out.
Minor Design Goals
- Minimal maintained communication burden with other players in the game - one-off messages are fine, but having to maintain and CROSSPOST from one QT to the team QT over and over would be annoying
- If possible, tune the clock to be roughly in line with the other games
- I'd like to pull off no-vanilla if I can.
What would y'all add/change for that list?
hitogoroshi wrote:Then yes, a no-kills-early setup seems like a good start.
The main issue with those setups is making sure the demarcation between each day and each night is MEANINGFUL - even my Open setup that just delayed the flip by one day (Rusty Guillotine) had serious lame duck issues.
Lynching and night kills usually give definitive information you can compare to people's stated views, AND removes a player as an actor from the game. We can split those and have the night/days divided by information alone; but the challenge is that the information CAN'T be about what players alignments are, at least not often, because having a player of confirmed alignment as an agent in the game is not interesting enough to carry the setup alone (and certainly doesn't scale well.)
The first thought that comes to my mind is a setup where players can have "small powers" that can be used every night, "big powers" that can be used on a 'Big Night', or both. And the votes aren't to lynch but to other things that alter the setup; sometimes who to target with something (e.g "roleblock this player next Big Night"); sometimes things that globally change the setup (e.g "Should being double-doctored prevent Strongman kills?"), maybe "Give this benefit to town but this benefit to scum."
And the gameflow is something like: vote Phase, small night, new information revealed publicly, vote phase, small night, conventional lynch, Big Night (of a power level where we expect multiple players to die), repeat.
This is just stream of consciousness and rough around the edges but I think it's lurching in the direction we want.
hitogoroshi wrote:There's a mechanic I've toyed with in a couple of setup drafts but not yet implemented that I think will do very well for the theme.
Essentially you just publicly announce everyone is randomly going to get a modifier a,b,or c (use the theme to inform what these actually are). Players know their modifier, but it has no intrinsic meaning. Instead it's just that many powers (particularly negative powers) need you to either guess the correct modifier (so 1/3rd chance) or pick not their modifier (2/3rd chance) for them to function.
Then throw in a mechanic that gets peoples modifiers out there. Maybe everyone can take a generic night action to learn one of the modifiers you don't have. Maybe you have an incentive to share your modifier with people you trust. Maybe you HAVE to choose a player to reveal your modifier to every night. Who knows?
But that system does a lot of things that I think help the TM goals. It gives a dimension to follow that increases your chances without being completely binary (you can always take that 1/3rd guess!); it gives scum breathing room to not have anything verifiable, and it lets us sneak a lot more power in the game because people will only have 1/3rd odds if they're firing it randomly.
The downside to the system is mostly that it introduces more random swing in night phase, but this pairs nicely with the small-small-big rhythm; by having two informational phases before a big night action phase it makes it more likely you're going for 66/100% odds instead of taking potshots.
It's not enough to carry the whole thing but it's gettin closer, I think?
hitogoroshi wrote:Ugh, I have the thread made to braindump for my setup but work has gotten really horrendous out of nowhere. So I'll just use this thread and not my other one until I have stuff that's a little more substantial.
Some stray thoughts:
- Upon reflection the "small-small-big" pattern will probably suffer from no-flip syndrome even if information comes in from the night. I still want to try to have the delayed start to increase agency but I think I'm just going to go small-big-small-big-etc. Call 'em Minor and Major days/nights. No lynches on minor days or killing actions on minor nights, limit other PRs as needed.
- Similarly, to increase engagement, the minor days will ALWAYS have one of the votes be a targeted negative thing. This allows for something close enough to a lynch to be engaging. My current thought is something like: have two simultaneous votes for WHO to target a negative effect on and WHAT setup change will be enacted, like Maraposza Street in Abarat II. (This means no VC bot but I planned on doing it manually anyway; I quite enjoy my style VCs even if they take a bit longer.) Then, after both votes are complete, it goes to a vote for something positive but that requires choosing (maybe choosing who gets a benefit, maybe choosing which of two similar benefits it will be, etc.) You don't know what the positive vote will be until it actually comes up. This also helps add urgency to the minor days because if the game drags to deadline picking who to do the bad thing to, hey, no benefit.
- I'm thinking of one week deadlines for minor days, 2 day deadlines for minor nights, two week deadlines for major days, 3 day deadlines for major nights. I think this will help keep the game clocks more in sync and really differentiate the minor and major phases thematically.
- Still like the RPS-esque mechanic, still need to figure out the best way to reveal the status. It should be something many players can engage with on minor nights; maybe everyone gets a universal action to check another persons RPS status during night?
- Feels like the mechanic space wants one more universal mechanic to give the minor day setup votes something to engage with and generally mix it up. The RPS mechanic lets us add a lot of power if we're smart about it, so let's do it. Drawing a blank atm but it's always in the back of my mind so I'm sure it won't be long.
I think from there the design topic pretty much takes over as the spot where I worked on this."Don’t buy a dozen eggs if you just want a hardboiled egg. Don’t buy a head of lettuce if you just want a salad. Don’t buy eggs and lettuce if you want egg salad because those are not the right ingredients." -Julius Bloop-
-
hitogoroshi ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- Posts: 3450
- Joined: February 24, 2008
- Location: shiftless layabout
also thanks for the flavor love y'all. I recommend reading the Adderbine/Kid PMs if nothing else, I was able to hint at the broader story in a way that didn't go over the line of letting those two flavor-confirm each other."Don’t buy a dozen eggs if you just want a hardboiled egg. Don’t buy a head of lettuce if you just want a salad. Don’t buy eggs and lettuce if you want egg salad because those are not the right ingredients." -Julius Bloop-
-
Iecerint Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 15766
- Joined: May 13, 2009
- Location: San Francisco
-
-
hitogoroshi ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- Posts: 3450
- Joined: February 24, 2008
- Location: shiftless layabout
yup. started with just wanting an opening scene that sounded epic and worked in the setup mechanics / two revealed roles, just came up with the rest from there.
That was the hardest part about flipping the setup so quickly. I think the flavor turned out okay with the tight deadlines but it left the ability/rules templating not as tight as I would have liked. It was definitely a race at the end to get it all done."Don’t buy a dozen eggs if you just want a hardboiled egg. Don’t buy a head of lettuce if you just want a salad. Don’t buy eggs and lettuce if you want egg salad because those are not the right ingredients." -Julius Bloop-
-
Cheetory6 MS Painter
- MS Painter
- MS Painter
- Posts: 7403
- Joined: September 21, 2014
-
-
Iecerint Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 15766
- Joined: May 13, 2009
- Location: San Francisco
Yeah, it reminds me of that series Percy used to do. RIP Percy.-
-
hitogoroshi ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- Posts: 3450
- Joined: February 24, 2008
- Location: shiftless layabout
Funny enough, I didn't really take any flavor cues from Stars Aligned/Lovecraft, but I DID take some mechanics direction from Stars Aligned. in particular Traces final form of failing on being traced was a page out of Percys book, one that I think worked really well here."Don’t buy a dozen eggs if you just want a hardboiled egg. Don’t buy a head of lettuce if you just want a salad. Don’t buy eggs and lettuce if you want egg salad because those are not the right ingredients." -Julius Bloop-
-
vezokpiraka Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 6034
- Joined: June 17, 2010
-
-
hitogoroshi ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- Posts: 3450
- Joined: February 24, 2008
- Location: shiftless layabout
Aww, thanks.
I had a lot of fun getting back into the modding game and will probably do it again after a sufficient break. Not sure what setup I'll do. Maybe it's finally time for HunterxHunter: Chimera Ant Mafia..."Don’t buy a dozen eggs if you just want a hardboiled egg. Don’t buy a head of lettuce if you just want a salad. Don’t buy eggs and lettuce if you want egg salad because those are not the right ingredients." -Julius Bloop-
-
Tere Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1266
- Joined: February 10, 2015
- Location: Shropshire, UK
Wow, you wrote all the flavour yourself?
I just thought it was from some epic sci fi I had never heard of. Great workMostly V/LA at weekends. GTKAS - Tere
I am also really too busy to play mafia to the quality level I prefer. I should spectate. If you see me in more than one game tell me off! Also invite me to cool games to spectate. I will bring cupcakes! <3-
-
Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
- Posts: 38382
- Joined: June 5, 2009
- Location: Chicago
In post 6844, hitogoroshi wrote:Aww, thanks.
I had a lot of fun getting back into the modding game and will probably do it again after a sufficient break. Not sure what setup I'll do. Maybe it's finally time for HunterxHunter: Chimera Ant Mafia...
!"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
-
Cheetory6 MS Painter
- MS Painter
- MS Painter
- Posts: 7403
- Joined: September 21, 2014
Not really sure what I want to put for the background yet, but I figured I'd share since it's pretty much almost done.
Basically, despite all of the suffering that came with this game, I just felt like the group of people and the mod were really awesome and all around this was a a really memorable experience, so I wanted to have a visual of sorts to kind of commemorate this or something.
[or in other words I just really need to find better ways to spend my spare time..]
I based most people on their avatars, but I took some influence from the game with some of the representations I went with.
I might add more detail at some point, but I've already spent a little more time on this than I feel comfortable actually admitting q.q
So.. yeah.
This is just my way of saying thanks for a fun game to hito and everyone else and hope you guys enjoy it
[if you want me to change anything about how you're shown just let me know and I will hopefully eventually get around to it haha]-
-
fferyllt Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Titan of Trajectory
- Posts: 20502
- Joined: December 28, 2012
- Location: Left Coast
That is awesome.-
-
TellTaleHeart Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 4505
- Joined: August 6, 2014
Copyright © MafiaScum. All rights reserved.