Mini 520 - Triumvirate Mafia - ABANDONED

[YuanTi]

On a general topic, the town looks weaker than usual here. We

cannot

allow a triumvirate lynch, but must avoid a triumvirate claiming too, as losing the doc for 1 night would kill a triumvirate member.

I'd say that only claiming Triumvirate at -1 would be good, but also say "Don't hammer until they've had a chance to claim."

Thoughts?

[Shanba]

Vote Count Numero Uno:
2: somestrangeflea

(Sir Tornado, phate)

2: Sir Tornado

(Miztef, YuanTi)

1: YuanTi

(FaerieLord)

1: skitzer

(somestrangeflea)

1: someone2

(MoS)

Not voting: Flyinghawk, Spider Jerusalem, someone2, skitzer, TheNinthLayer

[Spider Jerusalem]

random

vote: Miztef

for justice!

[Miztef]

I agree that triumvirates basically have to claim if about to be lynched. The mafia will probably do this every time as well, so we will have an ultra tough time finishing people off. I get the feeling this game will be very long, and probably have some "no lynch" days.

[Sir Tornado]

Unvote

Vote SSF

Voting by dice is bad. It doesn't give any actual information.

Considering the fact that I have started every game with an

identical

post, AFAICR, how is this scummy?

Well, it isn't scummy, actually. I voted you to drill it into you that random voting

using a dice

is bad (although since you do it every game, it is not scummy, especially for you)

The logic behind dice voting being bad is, that if you random vote without a dice, all we know that it is an apparent random vote, which may, or may not indeed be random. That is information. However, when you vote using a dice, we

know

why you voted so and so player. You did it because the dice told you to. It doesn't give the town any information.

For more details, read the first couple of pages of newbie 476 where mith explains this in a much better way.

[Sir Tornado]

And, hoping you get what I mean, I shall

unvote

and

Vote: TheNinthLayer

, for failing at Gravity.

[YuanTi]

I agree that triumvirates basically have to claim if about to be lynched. The mafia will probably do this every time as well, so we will have an ultra tough time finishing people off. I get the feeling this game will be very long, and probably have some "no lynch" days.

Yep, going to be hard.

No counterclaims until the late game will be a good policy here.

[skitzer]

Vote: someone2

because I wanted to vote someone too...

lol, I'm so funny.

[somestrangeflea]

Lynch all liars.

Vote: Ski- Ohwait...

[someone2]

Random vote: Spider Jerusalem

[Flyinghawk]

Random Vote: theninthlayer

[YuanTi]

So hows everybody doing?

Having fun?

[Miztef]

well this game has kinda stalled a bit I see. We need more substantial posts then just random votes.

@somestrangeflea: What do you mean by lynch all liars? I know what it means, but how would we use it in this context, there is absolutely no way for triumvirates to prove they are that (to my knowledge).

Let's say a mafia is at L-1, and claims triumvirate. The 3 actual triumvirates have little power to counterclaim, since they don't even know what their power is, or who has it, or any control over it (I think). Claiming becomes almost mandatory for triumvirates that are about to be lynched, and so imo, the mafia will claim it every time they are close to lynch as well.

Basically, the claims become almost worthless in finding out what someone is. It's WIFOM if there is a claim, or if there isn't a claim.

Triumvirate - Almost certainly must claim, unless they are a very good player.
Mafia - can choose to claim or not, completely WIFOM
Townie - really, really shouldn't claim. However, since there is no way (that I know of) to prove triumvirates, they could claim.


Conclusion: The town is gonna be hard pressed in this game. Our only advantage is that detectives and doctors and roleblockers can claim as such any time during the day, and they are no more likely to die, since they lose that power the next day anyway. Actually... need to get that clarified -

Mod: When exactly are the power roles for the day told they are power roles, and when exactly does it end?

If they are in a position where they can use their power before being NKed, and claiming the day before. Then we have a good advantage in that sense, especially since when a triumvirate is NKed, one of the powers is lost, so by claiming daily, we may be able to tell which it is, depending on if we know roles after death. Also, mafia could claim the extra power role, but since they don't know which it is, I don't think that's likely to be successful, or at least it would only be successful 1 or 2 days at most.


Sorry for the long post guys, I was just thinking through how this theme would work, as I've never played it before. It's really interesting, and I hope I helped bring some insight into how this theme works. Not much else to comment on at this time.

[Shanba]

The power roles are told at the beginning of the night and receive the power for one night only

[somestrangeflea]

@somestrangeflea: What do you mean by lynch all liars? I know what it means, but how would we use it in this context, there is absolutely no way for triumvirates to prove they are that (to my knowledge).

I was talking to skitzer...

lol, I'm so funny.

[FaerieLord]

[quote="Mitzef]Triumvirate - Almost certainly must claim, unless they are a very good player.
Mafia - can choose to claim or not, completely WIFOM
Townie - really, really shouldn't claim. However, since there is no way (that I know of) to prove triumvirates, they could claim. [/quote]

Just saying that this completely sucks...completely. If I was mafia, I wouldn't claim using this table so....dum dum dum! NO RESULTS

[Spider Jerusalem]

I have to agree with the general sentiment that claiming and how to interpret it is going to be somewhat of mess in this setup. I think we'll have to really avoid bandwagoning and try to be especially slow and methodical in our decision making.

Looking over the posts I don't see much to go on at this point, however I've noticed that TheNinthLayer appears to have not posted anything yet, not even a in thread confirmation post. This is more of a lurky not a clearly scummy thing but it's the first major oddity I noticed.

[Miztef]

@SSF: My mistake, doesn't matter all that much though, I wasen't really suspicious of you or anything.

@FaerieLord: Your reply confuses me. Can you clarify your position? Are you referring to the roles are "completely sucking" or how I said the claiming would work?

The conclusion from that table basically is that anyone could claim triumvirate, and the claim itself is almost always WIFOM. However, it is close to necessary for triumvirates to claim, because if they are lynched, the town is in a huge amount of trouble.

[FaerieLord]

The claiming. False claiming will be easy, so our decisions shouldnt be based on role, but on play

[YuanTi]

Perhaps, but IF 1 TRIUMVIRATE IS LYNCHED WE LOSE ALL POWERS.

A cop for the night can investigate a scummy claimed player though.

[Miztef]

As YuanTi said, we can't even afford to lose 1 triumvirate. Therefore, if someone does not claim at L-1 (or at any point close to being lynched) and is a triumvirate, that would turn out really bad (most likely).

That's basically all I was trying to point out.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Unvote

Vote SSF

Voting by dice is bad. It doesn't give any actual information.

Considering the fact that I have started every game with an

identical

post, AFAICR, how is this scummy?

Well, it isn't scummy, actually. I voted you to drill it into you that random voting

using a dice

is bad (although since you do it every game, it is not scummy, especially for you)

The logic behind dice voting being bad is, that if you random vote without a dice, all we know that it is an apparent random vote, which may, or may not indeed be random. That is information. However, when you vote using a dice, we

know

why you voted so and so player. You did it because the dice told you to. It doesn't give the town any information.

For more details, read the first couple of pages of newbie 476 where mith explains this in a much better way.

Unvote, Vote: Sir Tornado

Interesting that you get on SSF's case for dice voting but don't even mention me. Trying to distance from your scumbuddy early?

Basically, the claims become almost worthless in finding out what someone is. It's WIFOM if there is a claim, or if there isn't a claim.

Triumvirate - Almost certainly must claim, unless they are a very good player.
Mafia - can choose to claim or not, completely WIFOM
Townie - really, really shouldn't claim. However, since there is no way (that I know of) to prove triumvirates, they could claim.

Why shouldn't townies claim? I agree it doesn't do much, but how does it help us for them to refuse to claim? It's the same as claiming anyways. And claims are always wifom, get over it. This game isn't any difference from other games. We have 3 "power roles" that can't prove themselves, it's not really any different from normal mafia. There is always WIFOM possible surrounding claims.

Just saying that this completely sucks...completely. If I was mafia, I wouldn't claim using this table so....dum dum dum! NO RESULTS

I can tell you've really thought about what you'd do as mafia...

[YuanTi]

He means don't claim as a Triumvirate Member, because that would be stupid.

I'm almost resigned to lynching a townie day 1.

What should happen is we discuss a lot. Decide GuyA is scum, put him at -1, he claims town or trium. We keep going until we agree on a lynch that isn't Trium, then every night the cop checks a claimed person and we lynch/leave accordingly.

[Miztef]

Horrible plan, if we get 6 claims, and the Cop triumvirate is NKed at some point, the plan goes to hell. Not to mention accidents like the roleblocker hitting the cop. Mathematically, I don't think there's enough days in the game for the cop(s) to find every mafia. There's also fake cop claims.

I could probably name off another 5 reasons why it's a bad idea. So, no.

The only thing I'm sticking with is that Triumvirate's are basically forced to claim when near lynch. We cannot afford to lynch one, especially on day 1 or 2.

(With the townie claim, I was referring to each of those people claiming "Triumvirate" not their true role, in case that was misinterpreted)

Also, mastermind of sin brings up an interesting point about Sir Tornado, but I'm not sure how vote worthy it is.

[Sir Tornado]

Interesting that you get on SSF's case for dice voting but don't even mention me. Trying to distance from your scumbuddy early?

That vote was to make a point, not to necessarily call SSF scummy due to his rolling dice (I did say so when I unvoted).

I wanted to get it across to SSF that using dice to start the game is not a very good idea. The vote on him was to draw his attention to it, because I have found that people pay more attention to what you are saying if you vote them.

Calling that "distancing" from SSF was a bit strange MoS. Why the heck would I specifically say that what he did was not scummy in my next post if I was trying to distance from him?