there is no way I can assume you and kuroi are/were town >.>
Because if I was scum the mod would give me a fake claim upon request.
If I was scum I would CLAIM SCUM.
Nobody claims Scum.
It's considered game-throwing and I've seen people banned for it.
Klingoncelt: "The whole scumteam slipped on page 1. It's the new meta. Sheep me because my reads are so accurate that whoever I name gets mod-converted to scum."
*Lays back in a hammock, grabs a beer, and quietly holds a message about the existence of an SK-sounding entity*
I'll have to wade through 30 pages to find out, won't I?
Not unless you use the power of the 3-letter word.
the 3-letter word?
Klingoncelt: "The whole scumteam slipped on page 1. It's the new meta. Sheep me because my reads are so accurate that whoever I name gets mod-converted to scum."
Klingoncelt: "The whole scumteam slipped on page 1. It's the new meta. Sheep me because my reads are so accurate that whoever I name gets mod-converted to scum."
Okay yeah...Remember how I said to keep it in your goddamn pants??!!?!?!?!?!
That doesn't mean add EVEN MORE CLAIMS to the shitstorm. As far as I'm concerned checks can be manipulated. North Empire could just check as Other, humans as wuldens, and maybe Great Lakes checks as Erimos through some sort of bullshit. Each check you do of someone should be in addition to, not in lieu of, how you read people. Furthermore instead of asking someone if their telling the truth, you need to get to the heart of the WHY someone does something. No one is going to say "HEY LOOK I AM A BIG FUCKING LIAR." If you can figure out the WHY someone does something you'll likely find the scum behind it. This is a game of mafia, social deduction, not whose goddamn claim is bigger.
My town and scum thoughts
Spoiler: Long version
All of the night flips on the first page are likely town. Mastin said loosely speaking, that the scum faction has a 50% win condition. None of those PMs I see have that percentage. Based on Titus's flip there seem to be different "champions" of each group. Consider the following:
If they could be turned against their will into undead, into lycans, into vampires, into some sick hybrid of two, what could they possibly do to survive? None of them had the experience necessary. The only action available: as with their ancestors, put their differences aside and bond together, in a desperate alliance against the supernatural creatures of the unknown.
This alliance was to be focused in the strongest remaining of the three factions, the eastern kingdom, but this triggered one final change: overnight, after the signing of the Humanity Treaty, an uprising of slaves rose up. This, because those slaves were secretly undead, hidden survivors of the experiments long-since discontinued, fearing for their lives thanks to their new bad publicity.
The land now divided between humans, wulden, nosferatu, and undead, a four-way factional war is brewing...
...Yet a fifth faction lurks in the shadows...a faction with an entirely foreign motive, one which sparked the war in the first place.
This likely means that race is NOT the likely factor in this treaty. It strongly implies people are shedding their old ways and coming together to try to form a NEW TREATY. Like Dramonic's role PM. As much as I hated that hammer while I was catching up, their flip of a new treaty strongly implies town.
Yet at the same time, Titus's role PM had a night kill yet had a threats to "blah" faction. It DID NOT SAY "THREAT TO HUMANITY IN THE WINCON" but did say "HUMANITY's CHAMPION". In the lore it specifically stated that the northern tribes dabbled in beast stuff, and the southern tribes dealth with the supernatural. Look at Kuroi's role PM. They said "northern faction" and in the first post it said a vampire was a type of beast. This likely means a beast champion from the North is probably a part of that group. I'd also expect something "supernatural" to be a champion of the southern group.
This means I think there are TWO mafia games going on. There's the one that if you have a specific WEST EMPIRE faction that you'd need to eliminate the specific threats to that to have a treaty. Similarly if you are Northern Empire/Southern Empire faction, you'd probably need to eliminate other people for the treaty to take place. Then there are the individual humans which at first may just seem like survive until one of the three groups treaties are met, but you may indeed be someone else's problem. If your card says North, then the West has a reason to try to stop you. This means Titus at a low level was scum, but at a high level was town since they'd need to get the 50% people out.
Now, let's take a look at the Undead flip from Dram. This probably means that one of these three groups must be the only ones remaining. This would make him at a broad sense town because they care about the treaty being signed in general. However, they may NOT care about which one or that any cards with a "human" race exist except for maybe one. This on a broad level would make him town but on a narrow level scum since they probably wouldn't care which humans existed as long as only groups from one nation did. This goes right in line with the paranoia of the first post.
Now the 50% people those are probably outright scum since they don't care about a treaty at all. However, there is nothing saying that anyone of ANY race could choose not to care about the treaty. I'm willing to bet the big bad in the role PM is one of those threats but does that make all Wulden with the big bad? If you think that then that is a scum faction not a cult. If you think that there is a mix, then there can be a Wulden town. This also means scum can be any race...including human. The fact is majority of people are going off of INFORMATION when they should be going off scum hunting.
Then there is also the cult. Of which we know nothing about. Or of what their faction role is. This is probably another problem to the treaty.
I think the main problem here is everyone is assuming we are playing one game of mafia instead of two games of mafia.Quite honestly I don't have an idea how location fits into all this yet, but I'm willing to bet that either it helps this supposition OR it helps to aid detective of the former. Mass claim of a given topic about you may end up with your specific group losing one of the two scum games likely going on. Unfortunately a lot of people are goddamn streaking right now.
What I think the race checker if you are not a human serves as is the ability to know if you could convert someone to your race and faction combination. IMHO it doesn't help to establish whether they want the treaty to succeed or not before they join you. I'm guessing that if you are a town non human that it'd make you want just the humans to quit warring so you could just exist and if scum non human ...well....that doesn't need explanation. This is further evidenced by the "Individual" flip from Kuroi. This implies at least two kinds of vampires if not more.
Therefore I think if you keep assuming a "broad" town and a "broad" scum I think we are all screwed. Yes I would love to find "broad" scum. But I'm guessing that with this setup there aren't going to be that many, especially that it may be that there are three human groups likely wanting to rip each other apart. In a "non bastard" game of mafia there would be around 20-25% scum. Following that logic, we'd either have a group of 7 or a group of 4 and a group of 3.
With everyone's theories as to what is going on, mass claim breaks every single one of them and doesn't take into account a treaty from Dram's flip or that two humans who everyone called town had two different wincons. It's with this hypothesis I'm going to reread all of the claims again and see who I think is scum, if any in that list.
In post 4832, Salt Squad wrote:Question why is LLD scum outside my Wulden race cop result on her?
I am waiting on a VC before I continue playing to be perfectly honest.
I'm still working on a breakdown post but I had a town read on her before the flip and how everyone thought race=faction, which I respectfully disagree with (see prior wall post), I'd think that LLD is likely town. It would be you I'd be more concerned with because "Instigator" doesn't seem to make much sense, read the prior post for me to see why I think the way I do.
In post 4391, MathBlade wrote:Also why are you assuming Kuroi had a recruit function?
Salt already claimed same faction, same win con and a recruit shot that he claimed each member of the faction had independently from the other members.
In post 4463, Nosferatu wrote:factions with "individual" prefix have a wincon of eliminating threats to the human treaty,
Where did you even get this? Like, Individual Humans win when they eliminate threats to their own faction (BBMolla), and Individual Vampires win when they eliminate threats to their own faction (Kuroi). Please double check facts before you post.
In post 4391, MathBlade wrote:Also why are you assuming Kuroi had a recruit function?
Salt already claimed same faction, same win con and a recruit shot that he claimed each member of the faction had independently from the other members.
In post 4463, Nosferatu wrote:factions with "individual" prefix have a wincon of eliminating threats to the human treaty,
Where did you even get this? Like, Individual Humans win when they eliminate threats to their own faction (BBMolla), and Individual Vampires win when they eliminate threats to their own faction (Kuroi). Please double check facts before you post.
Read 4830 Almost50. Not responding to what is there here while I'm trying to do another post explaining my thoughts so I don't make the post count any more insane than it already is.
Klingoncelt: "The whole scumteam slipped on page 1. It's the new meta. Sheep me because my reads are so accurate that whoever I name gets mod-converted to scum."
In post 4248, Stormblade wrote:This is the weirdest game ever. It feels like haunted house instead of legit mafia.
Albert
It feels like Clue with a bunch of other games' rules taped together and all the players are eating LSD.
Klingoncelt: "The whole scumteam slipped on page 1. It's the new meta. Sheep me because my reads are so accurate that whoever I name gets mod-converted to scum."
See, I'm tempted to join you, but could you persuade me just a teensy bit more?
Still catching up...
I'm at the part where SS and Fire&Ice are screaming at each other in all caps.
Klingoncelt: "The whole scumteam slipped on page 1. It's the new meta. Sheep me because my reads are so accurate that whoever I name gets mod-converted to scum."
In post 4832, Salt Squad wrote:Question why is LLD scum outside my Wulden race cop result on her?
I am waiting on a VC before I continue playing to be perfectly honest.
Reaction to accusation is fake, the claim is otherwise fine.
In post 3907, mastin2 wrote:You are an Individual Vampire Doctor.
[REDACTED - FACTIONAL]
dram's PM:
In post 3909, mastin2 wrote:You are an Undead Risen Slave.
[REDACTED - FACTIONAL]
These two players are obviously scum due to the REDACTED - FACTIONAL portion of their PM. The redacted information is almost assuredly factional chat and/or team buddies. Titus and Molla didn't have any such redaction, and both were Humans, so they are almost assuredly town flips. Multi-town game doesn't necessarily indicate that the towns are against each other, even though there flavor might suggest it.
Based on speculation of flips, I want to say dramonic was possibly our cult since his PM is the only PM thus far to state that at least one member is required to be alive to win.
I attempted to scan the location of dramonic last night, but I got a "no result" returned, which suggests I was blocked as I see nothing in dram's flavor to suggest that targeting him would cause a location scan to fail.
"SCUM" are given FAKECLAIMS. When the player dies, the fakeclaims show up in the flip.
Did you see ANY fakeclaims in ANY of the flips?
None of the deceased were Scum.
Did you see "Cult" in Dramonic's flip? No.
Please read. Please.
Klingoncelt: "The whole scumteam slipped on page 1. It's the new meta. Sheep me because my reads are so accurate that whoever I name gets mod-converted to scum."
In post 4316, Toogeloo wrote:Also, as a heads up, I haven't read anything other than Day 2 start flips, the rest of the page that followed the flips, and my results from my night actions.
In a game like this.
VOTE: Toogeloo
Please help me eliminate this slot, everyone.
Klingoncelt: "The whole scumteam slipped on page 1. It's the new meta. Sheep me because my reads are so accurate that whoever I name gets mod-converted to scum."
Each faction, if possessing a non-human race, has a one-shot ability to recruit a human to their faction.
Emphasis "human". This ability will fail if more than one faction attempts this on the same target. This ability does not work on all humans.
Regardless of success or failure, this ability is used up once activated.
Tell me again, so you think each member of your faction can recruit on their own?????
Note: This isn't flavour for you guys who are not buying Wuldens for scum. I say WULDENS AND VAMPIRES are BOTH SCUM!
The Vampire did not flip with a fakeclaim.
Klingoncelt: "The whole scumteam slipped on page 1. It's the new meta. Sheep me because my reads are so accurate that whoever I name gets mod-converted to scum."
In post 4326, Toogeloo wrote:Kuroi is definitely scum for more than just the Redacted - Factional portion of his role pm too. Don't forget he claimed Human Doctor before he was lynched.
Anyone with a PT will have Factional abilities, like, for example, having a PT. Of course this info will be redacted. NAI.
Klingoncelt: "The whole scumteam slipped on page 1. It's the new meta. Sheep me because my reads are so accurate that whoever I name gets mod-converted to scum."
In post 4675, Luna Fox wrote:Also no one messing with my results doesnt mean we're clear of scum (they might have chosen not to mess up with me).
But being messed up with pretty much means there is at least 1.
So if lynching SS yields town we know there's for certain a spy there. And if we lynch scum we dont, but we lynched scum.
How do you even know the Wuldens even have a redirector to begin with?? Mastin's post suggest there might be a redirector in game, but not necessarily in your PT and/or in the spy's faction.
I've come to the conclusion that Luna's faction cop result is not fucked with, Salt Squad really is 'isolationist' - but isolationist doesn't mean scum/cult.
Read about the Individual Vampires - they're outcasts. Read about Kuroi's character Hans Pohl - he's an outcast. They're all
isolated and individual
and hold no particular allegiance to anyone. The 'Individual' factions are somewhat a neutral ground that win with a few different other WinCons. Also, 'isolationism' in political terms is commonly acccepted as meaning that you keep other people's business out of yours and you try to do the best with what you can (roughly speaking).
This all sounds very consistent with the flavour for Individual Vampires/Humans and I'm starting to really think that we've simply been reading isolationist wrong. Luna's result wasn't fucked with - Salt Squad IS an isolationist - but isolationist isn't the cult/scum indicator we thought it was.
This all fits with Mastin's flavour that your enemies are not who you think they are and Mastin has also repeated a number of times that Race =/= Faction. This LLD lynch is shit. I'm tired of listening to people telling me, "Da WuLDeN Are Da sCumMers/CulTers!"
That's not how this particular game works. Cephrir/LLD are off the lynch table. These 3:
A50
Copper
Wayward Thinker
All need to die. A50 is fucking with us with his non-human shit. I think he's most likely human and scum - and the way this anti-human agenda is being pushed I think that would be a GREAT way for scum to get themselves race-read as human and nearly everyone goes, "welp that's Town guys!" - but this game DOES. NOT. WORK. LIKE. THAT.
Copper was doing the same sketchy shit with his Heartless Nation read of 'Other' - as if 'Other' on its own predicts that Heartless is non-human and therefore scum.
Wayward holy shit, nearly everyone seems to agree that they're scummy but not one wants to lynch. Whatever. Lynch A50 or Heartless instead then, but please get the fuck off the Cephrir/LLD/Salt Squad wagons because they're DUMB.
