Open 53: Near-Vanilla - Game over!

[ClockworkRuse]

Neko: I thought that Korlash was the doctor because he was obviously laying back in the pocket and trying to seem like an unhelpful townie for a reason. And as I said before, I thought I found the crumbs but I wasn't sure.

And just to point out, it's mislynch and lose. So we have to be careful with anything we do.

I can not comment on Shanba's play earlier in the game, obviously I am not him, but I can say that I did not miss that deadline on purpose. I was mulling over who I would vote during the night and when I woke up I would have had enough time to get a vote in. But, girlfriends complicate things when they are having bad days. Enough said, we aren't going to derail discussion with that.

With Neko cleared, that means I have to concentrate on K7 and Romanus. We should be able to nail scum today.

[killa seven]

Many great and humble apologies to ClockworkRuse for the misspelling of his name.

I believe there is about 6 hours to deadline. I wish ClockR would have at least expressed his intentions.

I will give ClockR a chance to vote, hammer Al J if that is what he wants to do. If he votes other than Al J, I am going to hammer Al J.

My reasoning is simple enough. I don't want a deadline lynch. We, the town, need to lynch. At most the wagon has one scum on it. If Al J comes up town, I am pretty sure

I know who the scum is on the wagon. We do have a mislynch in our pocket.

I predict the doctor is going to die tonight

, which will clear someone else.

I'll have access throughout the day.

I'm saying IF this is a mislynch.

Time to go to sleep

UNVOTE

vote: Alabaska J

I bolded where these 2 posts contradict themselves first you say "we do have a mislynch" then right after you say i mean if we have a misylynch, then right after in the next sentence you say "time to go to sleep" like you are 100% certain we didnt lynch right.
it seems to me you were tryna set up a "told you the alabaska wagon was wrong im obv town now"
im tempted to vote you now. but i wanna make sure we get this right today.

[Romanus]

What I meant by going to sleep was that day was over, that's all. Whether we won or not, it would be night since the end of day is the lynch.

What I meant by having a mislynch in our pocket was that we wouldn't lose if we mislynched.

I thought that if Al J came up town and Korlash lived through the night, Korlash would be obv scum.

And if I thought the Al J wagon was obv wrong I would have said so. I didn't. In fact I stated that I was ok with the Al J wagon.

I'm blaming Korlash for all this nonsense. His doctor crap just confused everyone and took our focus off of scum hunting.

I do not like the fact that CR was able to cruise and not get a vote down or even declare himself. At best -- anti-town. At worste -- Scum.

Right now ClockworkRuse is my lynch candidate.

[neko2086]

What I meant by going to sleep was that day was over, that's all. Whether we won or not, it would be night since the end of day is the lynch.

There wouldn't be a night, actually. Night only happens when there will be another day, and scum and power roles need to make choices. If AJ were scum, it would've just been over, like

vote: AJ

Mod- Yay, town wins!

Game over


This very well could have been an honest mistake, but combined with the rest of your statements, it does sound like scum knowing it's not over yet. The statement that is most telling to me is "the doctor is going to die tonight" part. The IF that came afterward somewhat accounts for it, but it seems like an afterthought.

I'm blaming Korlash for all this nonsense. His doctor crap just confused everyone and took our focus off of scum hunting.

I wish he would have just claimed as well, and I really felt like just outing him, but I felt certain that AJ/EL was scum. Anyway, blaming him isn't going to help us at all right now, so shifting attention to him is not a good plan.

I do not like the fact that CR was able to cruise and not get a vote down or even declare himself. At best -- anti-town. At worste -- Scum.

This I mostly agree with. Considering this:

I was mulling over who I would vote during the night

CR hadn't committed to anything by his last post, and apparently he didn't feel he needed to make a decision until he would vote right before deadline. Part of being a helpful townie is having a well-informed vote by deadlines, which CR may indeed have been trying to do, but the other part, which CR doesn't seem to have concerned himself with, is adding to discussion well before deadline so that

everyone

has heard every point of view and can make the best collaborative decision.

k7, what do you think of the possibility of CR being the last scum? I don't think I've heard you say much, if anything, about him.

[Romanus]

The addition of the IF was because someone brought up that point before.

If people don't post, there is no way we are going to win this game. If you are a townie, please, please, pretty please, post. It is way too easy for scum to stay under the radar right now.

[neko2086]

Rom, is your suspicion of CR based primarily on his skipping out on the last deadline? You said that Shanba "pinged pretty hard" for you. Anything specific?

Also, what do you think of k7?

k7, I still have a question for you.

CR, looking forward to hearing anything from you.

Let's not let the discussion die at endgame, ok?

[Romanus]

Shanba did ping for me earlier. The non vote at deadline also concerned me. I'm going to have to go back and see what exactly pinged for me. Not sure when I am going to be able to do that, but soon.

K7, I just don't know about. I reread is in order.

[ClockworkRuse]

Shanba did ping for me earlier. The non vote at deadline also concerned me. I'm going to have to go back and see what exactly pinged for me. Not sure when I am going to be able to do that, but soon.

K7, I just don't know about. I reread is in order.

I would like you to answer the rest of that question. Is the only reason you have for voting me that I missed a deadline vote?

I'm looking forward to hearing a bit from K7, I'd love to hear any cases he has to make. I believe earlier he said that if El wasn't mafia, then I would have to be. So I would be very interested in hearing what myself or my predecessors have done to make a bleep on his radar.

As far as my reading on K7 and Rom...

K7 has been playing the 'I'm noobish!' card throughout the game. From voting with poor or little reason to vote jumping, we've excused it to him being new here. There comes a point where me must look at it and say, 'Is it newbie scum actions? Or town?'
The newbie veil needs to fall and we all need to take a serious look at him.

Rom has been iffy with me, I really to re-read on him. He was pretty set on Korlash being scum however.

Rom, did you even attempt to find the crumbs left by the doctor?

[Romanus]

No, I did not, and I explained this before all the crap went down. I demanded that he just come clean with all of it.

[killa seven]

@cr .. u r saying i was playing the noob card, well i never did that on purpose, this is the first game i joined on this site and i never played mafia before so early on i really was kinda lost, but its been 6 f'in months and i think i know what im doin now. also im not a fan of the "noob card" thing.
@ neko sorry i answered ur question a few days ago i dunno what happened to the post, but basically i thought shanba was town the way he played, he was the one person i was sure was town, but now i dunno he coulda just been bussin with his big case on skitser and then the next day he opened up with " i could see a klebian lynch" that had the town all over him and got him lynched while he never put forth any other effort to lynch him, seems like bussing to me.

My feeling on romanus/ross/jt, if u re read, u can see i thought ross was total scum and was pushing to get him lynched his whole pushing for a no lynch when a wagon arose on him really stood out as a scummy move. jt played more town and kinda got me off of him for a while, CR has kinda layed low and let the town take themselves out, poppin in here and there and droppin comments but not really presenting strong cases or voting so we tend to forget he's here.
Im still on the fence who to vote right now.

[neko2086]

I don't remember seeing k7 ever try to pull the newbie card. I'd say his play has improved considerably, and he's been around awhile now, so I haven't considered him a newbie for some time. Maybe that's just me, but I think you're misrepresenting k7 there, CR. If you have some examples to prove otherwise, though, that'd be nice to see.

[ClockworkRuse]

I don't remember seeing k7 ever try to pull the newbie card. I'd say his play has improved considerably, and he's been around awhile now, so I haven't considered him a newbie for some time. Maybe that's just me, but I think you're misrepresenting k7 there, CR. If you have some examples to prove otherwise, though, that'd be nice to see.

I'm not saying that he came out and said 'I'm new, excuse that please! It was just a mistake.' It's more my read on him throughout the game. K7, I didn't mean your playing style right now was noobish at all. I meant that your play style from when you replaced into this game and on. While you never came out and said 'Oh, my bad. I'm new,' I feel that it was just assumed by most players.

Expect a few quotes to come in my next post.

Rom- If when it was apparent that the doctor was not going to out himself, why did you not hunt for those crumbs to prevent us from lynching our doctor? I fail to see how that is pro-town.

[ClockworkRuse]

The K7 re-read;

Keep in mind that this is going to be my thoughts as I read through his posts, I'll add a little summary at the end.


The second post K7 makes in the game:

unvote, vote: RossWilliam

Killa seven: have you read the thread yet?

Not feeling the RW bandwagon atm..

im trying threads kinda slow, most posts are complaints about it being slow lol, and a quick question yes im a newbie but what does rw bandwagon atm mean?

While this isn't scummy at all, I would like to note that he announces that he is new here. There's nothing wrong with that and I'm glad to see that rather than jumping into the game headfirst without
asking for help that he asks about things he doesn't know.

why was there a rw bandwagon in the first place?

This post is iffy for me because he's basically asking for a summary on a case when he could easily re-read and form his own opinions.

unvote, vote: nolynch

right now, I don't know who is scummy. But I also think, though it sounds selfish, that lynching me right now would be a mislynch. You don't have enough on me to lynch me yet. I'd appreciate it if some people voted nolynch with me, or even if the people on me unvoted. it would be a shame for the town for me to die without more evidence.

PS: there is no more evidence to be had, so we're all good

way to try to save yourself, probably wasnt the right one, as soon as the mod lets us vote no lynch u jump right on it? explain to me further why i shouldnt vote u and should vote no lynch u didnt really explain it much...

I like this post for town, he's being inquestitive and if he was scum he might've gone along with the No lynch and tried to use the newbie card had anyone attacked him and got away with it.

im here tryna decide who to vote for melodyman or tsn

vote j dodge

fuck it.

Bad posting, seems lurky and scummy.

well j dodge hasnt posted anything in ages except, 2 one sentance posts, and tsn atleas tries to defend himself and answer questions.. cant say the same for j dodge, and mm seems like a new guy making a few mistakes, he should atleast get another day to redeem himsef.
however im not completely commited to my vote.

Here's another post where I get some strong Town-Vibes from K7. He votes for J Dodge for lurking and attempts to stop the mm lynch, which to me was a very bad lynch.
At the same time, he could be scum knowing the MM was town and saying that so he could use this to appear more town;

i knew mm was town....

fos

at that whole bandwagon... oh and

vote

j dodge

we shoulded lycnhed that guy instead

ok i dont like how tsn earlier in the day had voted for j dodge, and then on page 25 both j dodge and tsn gang up on crub near the deadline, and on page 26 post 638 jdode asks why we are voting tsn instead pf crub, all this seems shady 2 me, i dont feel like quoting it all just go look for your selvs.

vote tsn

This post is a little hard to follow and I found it extremely unhelpful, to be honest.
Could be just unhelpful townie behavior or it could be scum trying to confuse/derail town.


There are a bunch of filler posts, going after TSN and Kleb.

He then talks about the doctor a bit, even after being told to shut-up about it all.

Overall, 64 posts in the game.

And my overall feeling on K7 is more Town then Scum but I need a re-read on Rom to be more sure of that feeling.

Toward the beginning some of his play was a little newbish and that's what I was refering to in my earlier posts. But reading over it, it seems more Town newbish then scum.


I will say that K7 did not look at Kleb or Skitzer as much as he could have and that is seems that he mentions Kleb once or twice but never really attacks them more then voting for them by jumping on the wagon.
That's a little suspicious.

I'm going to mull this all over and then after a re-read on Rom, I'll have my informed vote.

[ClockworkRuse]

EBWOP: Excuse the spelling errors in there, I wrote that all in notepad during my re-read and forgot to fix the spelling. D=

[ClockworkRuse]

So.... bump? I'd love to see some discussion going on.

[neko2086]

Same here. I'm especially interested in hearing more from Rom. Also, were you still rereading rom?


I guess I do have a couple notes on your k7 reread:

I never liked his "I knew mm was town," and FOSing an entire bandwagon is lazy at best unless there is a specific reason to suspect each one.

His interactions with kleb and skitzer are interesting, especially considering that skitzer went after tsn saying that his notes on k7 were "semi-positive," and then there was this:

What irks me a minor bit is that he has played more to aid the town in this game, which maybe just experience showing, but it's something I want to keep my eye on.

which is so backwards, it just blows my mind.

Then again, I think klebian tried to use a similar argument, and that may well be how this was brought to my attention in the first place. So, that makes me lean a bit more toward town on that issue.


That aside, I'm still not entirely convinced by his kleb vote. He was on his scum list- well OK. He got crub lynched- didn't really make a difference, but I suppose at the time that wasn't certain. Anyway, jtdyer's vote wasn't any better. All things considered, I would still put k7 as more town than rom, but I'm still waiting to hear more from him.

[Romanus]

I am reading. Going back to my original notes, during my first readthrough, Shanba, now CR, pinged very hard. I'm going to have to find what it was I was seeing.

Right now, I put him at the top. The lack of a vote by deadline only more so puts him up there.

K7 just looks townie to me.

Actually, I'm going with ClockworkRuse.

It's between K7 and CR. CR is much more scummy to me.

My vote is unofficially on Clockwork Ruse.

[killa seven]

im unsure who to vote for, but im leanin CR.. maybe.. couple of weird reasons, the night TSN was killed i remmeber jtr saying he was going to camp and then he never returned, the mod never replaced him untill i brought it up, dunno for sure tho but shanba was replaced in the night phaze so near woulda been able to pick a kill. thats just crazy thoughts tho.
Also im pretty sure the scum knew korlash was the doc yesterday there is no way they didnt and im not sure rom woulda been pushing for his lynch if he knew he was the doc(well myabe to get a claim). and CR has down nothin but lurk untill today poppin up and askin for discussin gets a major FOS. seeing as how its end game and hes jusr now ready to hunt.
Willl vote soon.. maybe
anyone have a completed shanba game?

[ClockworkRuse]

im unsure who to vote for, but im leanin CR.. maybe.. couple of weird reasons, the night TSN was killed i remmeber jtr saying he was going to camp and then he never returned, the mod never replaced him untill i brought it up, dunno for sure tho but shanba was replaced in the night phaze so near woulda been able to pick a kill. thats just crazy thoughts tho.

Also im pretty sure the scum knew korlash was the doc yesterday there is no way they didnt and im not sure rom woulda been pushing for his lynch if he knew he was the doc(well myabe to get a claim

). and CR has down nothin but lurk untill today poppin up and

askin for discussin gets a major FOS

. seeing as how its end game and hes jusr now ready to hunt.
Willl vote soon.. maybe
anyone have a completed shanba game?

Hold on for a second. Whoa.

First of all, since he's missed it once.

Rom- if when it was apparent that the doctor was not going to out himself, why did you not hunt for those crumbs to prevent us from lynching our doctor? I fail to see how that is pro-town.

Second of all K7, look at your post for a second are realize how WIFOM that argument is. Rom could have known who the doctor was and lied about it easily. Scum could easily push for a lynch of the doctor under the guise of 'I didn't know! He didn't claim! Which is stupid of him...'

Explain how asking for discussion and hunting at end game is scummy? Because I honestly don't see the correlation there.

[ClockworkRuse]

I am reading. Going back to my original notes, during my first readthrough, Shanba, now CR, pinged very hard. I'm going to have to find what it was I was seeing.

Right now, I put him at the top. The lack of a vote by deadline only more so puts him up there.

K7 just looks townie to me.

Actually, I'm going with ClockworkRuse.

It's between K7 and CR. CR is much more scummy to me.

My vote is unofficially on Clockwork Ruse.

How'd Shanba ping hard? If it pinged hard the first time then you should be able to find that same thing that he said again.

Why does K7 look like a town, with your own reasoning and words.

Put it this way, it's pseudo-endgame. I don't want these bland statements of your opinions. I want explanations. I want to see proof and I want you to answer questions.

Everyone should be explaining their theories in full, not just posting 'I think it's XXXXXX' without any reason behind it.

If I'm "much more scummy" prove it. Provide posts and support it. Otherwise you get a major

FOS

for not contributing anything substantial to the discussion.

[Romanus]

You can't answer for anything nor defend anything. I really don't have to explain anything because this is endgame.

If I had really solid evidence then I would present it. I really don't. I don't feel like sitting here and debating conjecture and a whole lot of WIFOM.

I can't PROVE anything. There is no proof to be made. All I have is my best guess, and you can FOS all you like.

This isn't page 4, it is endgame. Your FOS means nothing and sounds desperate and even more scummy.

As for what you want. About not liking my bland opinions. Oh well. It isn't my opinion as much as it is my vote. It may be bland but it counts just as much as any other, whether I give bland or spicy opinions.

The time for explaining theories is over. Townies need to make up their own damn minds.

Vote: ClockworkRuse

[Romanus]

Oh, and you want me to answer that question of yours.

The breadcrumb means nothing. A scum can just as easily leave a trail as a doctor considering the scum know who they tried to kill just as much as the doctor knows who he protected.

As far as I'm concerned, I was the only one acting pro-town by demanding the doc out himself so we could have an open air discussion of the matter. Now we look like a bunch of idiots.

That is all I have to say on that matter.

[ClockworkRuse]

You can't answer for anything nor defend anything. I really don't have to explain anything because this is endgame.

If I had really solid evidence then I would present it. I really don't. I don't feel like sitting here and debating conjecture and a whole lot of WIFOM.

I can't PROVE anything. There is no proof to be made. All I have is my best guess, and you can FOS all you like.

This isn't page 4, it is endgame. Your FOS means nothing and sounds desperate and even more scummy.

As for what you want. About not liking my bland opinions. Oh well. It isn't my opinion as much as it is my vote. It may be bland but it counts just as much as any other, whether I give bland or spicy opinions.

The time for explaining theories is over. Townies need to make up their own damn minds.

Vote: ClockworkRuse

This post is the

scummist

thing I've read all game.

You've blatantly said "At endgame, I don't have to explain anything. Your suspicions mean nothing and make you nothing but seems scummier."

Be responsible for your vote at end game then.

Tell me how discussion at endgame is less important then any other time in the game.

To me, this post confirms my suspicions that you are scum.

[Romanus]

Everyone is suspicious. An FOS at the end of the game? What kind of non-committal stuff is that?

I'm suspicious of everyone. A Finger of Suspicion is laughable. Makes you look like you are coming after me, but not without a vote. It is a wishy-washy tactic that just makes you look even scummier.

Confirm Vote: ClockworkRuse

I really don't have anything else to contribute. I will be reading. If I change my mind I will certainly let you know.

Others need to make up their mind instead of casting suspicion and hoping others jump on before they commit.

[ClockworkRuse]

Everyone is suspicious. An FOS at the end of the game? What kind of non-committal stuff is that?

I'm suspicious of everyone. A Finger of Suspicion is laughable. Makes you look like you are coming after me, but not without a vote. It is a wishy-washy tactic that just makes you look even scummier.

Confirm Vote: ClockworkRuse

I really don't have anything else to contribute. I will be reading. If I change my mind I will certainly let you know.

Others need to make up their mind instead of casting suspicion and hoping others jump on before they commit.

It's not non-committal. I'm being responsible for my vote, especially since this is end-game. I would much rather use a FoS without a vote and not worry about my vote while I re-read you and your predecessors then vote you right away with little reason at all.

To me, it looks like you are deliberately trying to stop discussion and that is beyond just being anti-town. It's so much worse than that.

So to answer you;
Why an FoS? - Because I want time to form a case on you. I'm more suspicious of you than everyone and rather than just vote and leave it I'm actually going to hunt.

I suppose you aren't going to cooperate with that? Or will you be answering questions that I have?