Mafia 74: Minimally Flavoured - Game over!

[Disciple Slayer]

@Bookitty: I was just bandwagoning. I thought there was something against The Fonz, but after a reread, there wasn't anything.

Mills has an easy task. All he has to do is stop being a first-class idiot and we will get along fine.

[Mills]

Oh, and I'm also really curious to see if DS and/or Mills will do what I tell them.

I don't get the scum vibe from egruntz and I have free will so I will not be doing what you suggested.

[liamcool]

These questions open to anyone:

Do you feel egruntz' comments more reflect on his inexperience on this particular site, or on his probable alignment?

I think it's a bit of both, maybe he plays a different style at other sites. Also, he might be scum trying hard to be a townie, or townie trying to affirm his allignment with everyone else. I'm personally leaning towards the latter right now, but not by a long shot (say, 45% for A and 55% for B)

[Snaps_the_Pirate]

I really don't know what to make of Disciple Slayer. His first three posts in this thread are casting blatent bandwagon votes. Then he has this one:

I did a quick reread, and I'm not happy with how Bookitty jumped on egruntz for mentioning the term "No Lynch". egruntz wasn't really pushing for one, he just mentioned it. It seems like the sort of thing scum would do on day one: push for a mislynch on someone for nothing at all, really.

What jumped out was his comment that Egruntz wasn't really pushing for a no lynch. This is because when I read his (Egruntz) post, it seemed to me, that he was in fact pushing for it. However, going back and rereading it, I could see that you could interpet Egruntz post the way Disciple Slayer is suggesting. Disciple Slayer's remaining posts in this thread have been snarking with Mills.

So far, Disciple Slayer, has been pretty unhelpful. The only exception seems to be the above mentioned post about Egruntz, which , at least for me, presented a different way of looking at Egruntz's original post.
Disciple Slayer is far and away the most suspicious player in the game. I hesitate to place my vote just yet, because he seems a little too obvious. I belive a mafia would be far more careful to make his posts non-suspcious. However, I see no benifit to a townie to make himself such an obvious target, so it may all be a double bluff.

I would certainly prefer to see more posts like the one I quoted above, than the unhelpful snarkfest we are currently getting from Disciple Slayer and Mills.

[Mills]

Regarding Disciple Slayer:

My feeling is that he was making useless posts initially. I think his third (?) post was something to the effect of "I'm voting for XXX. Explanations after Christmas." After this came the comments by myself and 1-2 other players about 'mafia hiding in plain sight' and my vote. Then he returns with a

completely

different tone of voice. He votes for BooKitty for a proper reason and calls me an idiot. I find this suspicious for 2 reasons. One: he has failed to explain his vote in the third (?) post which he made seem serious at the time and it would appear as though he changed it instead of explaining it due to the sustained pressure he was receiving. Two: He has become increasingly aggressive towards myself (which is not necessarily unwarranted because I play aggressively too and my reason for voting him was an aggressive one) but I feel that this is a simple way for him to pass me off as an idiot that no one should listen to (thereby relieving a good portion of the pressure on him that came from me).

I will stick with my vote on Disciple Slayer for these reasons. I feel that both are scum-tells.

[Mills]

Regarding Disciple Slayer:

My feeling is that he was making useless posts initially. I think his third (?) post was something to the effect of "I'm voting for XXX. Explanations after Christmas." After this came the comments by myself and 1-2 other players about 'mafia hiding in plain sight' and my vote. Then he returns with a

completely

different tone of voice. He votes for BooKitty for a proper reason and calls me an idiot. I find this suspicious for 2 reasons. One: he has failed to explain his vote in the third (?) post which he made seem serious at the time and it would appear as though he changed it instead of explaining it due to the sustained pressure he was receiving. Two: He has become increasingly aggressive towards myself (which is not necessarily unwarranted because I play aggressively too and my reason for voting him was an aggressive one) but I feel that this is a simple way for him to pass me off as an idiot that no one should listen to (thereby relieving a good portion of the pressure on him that came from me).

I will stick with my vote on Disciple Slayer for these reasons. I feel that both are scum-tells.

Just to expand on both of these briefly:

1. I also do not think that a town-aligned player would have any reason to so

radically

shift their playstyle when called out.

2. It is very convenient for DS that my initial vote for him looked like an attack on him as a person. It allowed him to simply attack back at my character rather than any argument that I have made. If I am not mistaken, he has mostly (completely?) ignored any posts where people have called him out and continues to simply attack my character. This has always been a huge scum-tell to me as a defense tactic. Scum love to attack the man, not the argument when defending themselves.

Sorry for the double post. Hope that clears everything up.

[Sangy]

We have a fixed deadline and I really don't want to rush a lynch in the last week before it hits.

And it's better to rush a lynch now?

[The Fonz]

These questions open to anyone:

Do you feel egruntz' comments more reflect on his inexperience on this particular site, or on his probable alignment?

I think it's a bit of both, maybe he plays a different style at other sites. Also, he might be scum trying hard to be a townie, or townie trying to affirm his allignment with everyone else. I'm personally leaning towards the latter right now, but not by a long shot (say, 45% for A and 55% for B)

45% is a much higher probability of being scum than a random lynch. If you actually believe there's a 45% chance of him being scum, you should be voting him.

[Xylthixlm]

We have a fixed deadline and I really don't want to rush a lynch in the last week before it hits.

And it's better to rush a lynch now?

No, and I think you're smart enough to know that's not what I'm pressing for.

[Xylthixlm]

But I could be wrong.

[thedragonsprincess]

sorry for the lack of posting guys but im back now. I still need to do a re-read but in reading this page Im not sure egruntz is scum.... he may just have a different play style then the rest of us. I've had a different playing style then the rest of the players in my previous game and ive had fingers pointed at me too.

[liamcool]

These questions open to anyone:

Do you feel egruntz' comments more reflect on his inexperience on this particular site, or on his probable alignment?

I think it's a bit of both, maybe he plays a different style at other sites. Also, he might be scum trying hard to be a townie, or townie trying to affirm his allignment with everyone else. I'm personally leaning towards the latter right now, but not by a long shot (say, 45% for A and 55% for B)

45% is a much higher probability of being scum than a random lynch. If you actually believe there's a 45% chance of him being scum, you should be voting him.

45% isn't high enough for me. I prefer to be reasonably sure, y'know?

[liamcool]

Idea: Mills = Lyncher?

(just something that came to me just then)

[Mills]

Are lynchers even possible in minimally flavoured games?

[Bookitty]

Liamcool, what made you think Mills might be a lyncher?

So far as I know minimally flavoured has to do with night scenes and role PMs, not the roles themselves. In a closed setup, who knows?

[liamcool]

The way he has targeted and provoked DS makes me think that DS is his lynchee. I think it's an unlikely possibility but a possibility nonetheless.

[OhGodMyLife]

Mills did try to make a case against DS based on previous games played rather than whats going on here. Also this:

Also he seems to be lynched a lot on Day One so let's not break the trend!

and this:

Are lynchers even possible in minimally flavoured games?

as his reaction to the suggestion make it seem not so outlandish at all to me.

[Mills]

So far as I know minimally flavoured has to do with night scenes and role PMs, not the roles themselves. In a closed setup, who knows?

Sorry I meant "New York" games. I was operating under the assumption that we only had the basic newbie roles from the wiki. Is this incorrect because I will need to look at players in a whole different light.

I am fairly sure you are right that "minimally flavoured" means less hectic themed flavour.

[Mills]

So far as I know minimally flavoured has to do with night scenes and role PMs, not the roles themselves. In a closed setup, who knows?

Sorry I meant "New York" games. I was operating under the assumption that we only had the basic newbie roles from the wiki. Is this incorrect because I will need to look at players in a whole different light.

I am fairly sure you are right that "minimally flavoured" means less hectic themed flavour.

Edit By Way Of Post[/i]

I'm specifically referring to the forum description.

"This forum is for games with basic roles only".

But it looks like I am probably wrong since there are other games in this forum (some of which I have actually read from memory) not adhering to this rule.

[Mills]

^^ Fail at BBCode.

[Xylthixlm]

Games in the New York forum can have a few unusual roles mixed in. Lyncher is extremely unlikely though (it's not fair in a game where people won't expect it).

I was operating under the assumption that we only had the basic newbie roles from the wiki. Is this incorrect because I will need to look at players in a whole different light.

Why would you need to look at players in a whole different light?

[Mills]

Games in the New York forum can have a few unusual roles mixed in. Lyncher is extremely unlikely though (it's not fair in a game where people won't expect it).

I was operating under the assumption that we only had the basic newbie roles from the wiki. Is this incorrect because I will need to look at players in a whole different light.

Why would you need to look at players in a whole different light?

Well, with lynchers for example, they certainly tend to behave in different ways to mafia or serial killers. If you want to hunt for lynchers, you need to be looking out for different things. At least that's how I see it. So it certainly makes a difference to the way that I read posts if I am looking for different tells (as a result of looking for different scum roles).

What kinds of roles are 'more' typical in the New York games?

I'd assume the following are certainly possible:
Vanilla
Cop
Doctor
Vigilante
Mafia
Mafia Roleblocker
Mafia Godfather
Serial Killer

[Sangy]

No, and I think you're smart enough to know that's not what I'm pressing for.

Yeah. I figured, but it really doesn't hurt to ask.

[The Fonz]

These questions open to anyone:

Do you feel egruntz' comments more reflect on his inexperience on this particular site, or on his probable alignment?

I think it's a bit of both, maybe he plays a different style at other sites. Also, he might be scum trying hard to be a townie, or townie trying to affirm his allignment with everyone else. I'm personally leaning towards the latter right now, but not by a long shot (say, 45% for A and 55% for B)

45% is a much higher probability of being scum than a random lynch. If you actually believe there's a 45% chance of him being scum, you should be voting him.

45% isn't high enough for me. I prefer to be reasonably sure, y'know?

Short of a claim that doesn't add up, I don't think you can ever really be more than 50% sure that someone's scum on day one. If a theoretical town had a 45% chance of hitting scum with every lynch, it'd win.

[Snaps_the_Pirate]

What kinds of roles are 'more' typical in the New York games?

I'd assume the following are certainly possible:
Vanilla
Cop
Doctor
Vigilante
Mafia
Mafia Roleblocker
Mafia Godfather
Serial Killer

"Miniamlly Flavored" indicates that there are SOME roles but not many. As we are in the New York thread they will most likely be basic roles. I have to agree with Mills list of possible roles. Though I doubt we have a Serial Killer or Vigilante, we will have to wait and see if we get multiple night kills to confirm if I am correct. Personally, I'm thinking "minamlly flavored" means we have a doctor and a cop.

I think it's a bit of both, maybe he plays a different style at other sites. Also, he might be scum trying hard to be a townie, or townie trying to affirm his allignment with everyone else. I'm personally leaning towards the latter right now, but not by a long shot (say, 45% for A and 55% for B)

Liamcool is starting with the aussumtion that the chances that any one person is a mafia is 50/50. This is incorrect. If there are 2 mafia the odds are only 1 in 8(12.5%). If there are 3 mafia the odds are 1 in 6(16.6%). If there are 4 mafia the odds are 1 in 4.5(22.2%). In other words well below 50%. Like The Fonz says, if Liamcool REALLY thinks there is 45% probability that Egruntz is mafia he should vote for him. However, I don't think that is what Liamcool was really trying to say.