Mini 559 - Cult Mafia again - Game over

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

consider a very simple analogy,

imagine if there was 7 people left, no power roles and 1 mafia, and we were all 100% sure (somehow, this part is irrelevant) that one of those 7 was the cultist, and yet people were still trying to lynch me.

at that point, i could hypothetically say that "even if i am the mafia, we should still lynch the cultist because he is more dangerous to the village". note that in no point am i even considering the fact that i am mafia because obviously i would know that i wasnt. however, i bring up that case because it is essentially something like a 'worst case scenario'. if we shouldnt lynch me in that spot when i am mafia then obviously we shouldnt ever lynch me in that spot.

this is similar to what i was saying, in that if we should discuss strat even in the worst case scenario where everyone is sure im a scum, then obviously we should discuss strat first in any spot.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

Blaze: The reason why ppl random vote at the beginning of the game is to encourage disscusion. No discussions are pointless. You could sometimes work out the real intension of the people who start or join them.

So, do you think OMG was overdefensive, or others were just misunderstanding him?

this, is ridiculous. i have not been defensive in any way at all so far. i have also proved that others have misunderstood me. i dont see why a villager would ever make this post.

so, my first non-random vote:

Vote: XReyoX

[Elias_the_thief]

hmm. Lotsa stuff to look over. For one, I dont believe that overdefensiveness is a scumtell, first of all. Second, I would agree that OMG wasnt overdefensive, though maybe a bit preemptively defense. Overall, hes still pretty active so for now he seems town to me. The vote on Reyo seems weak to me. I can see a townie asking that question because it forces the player hes asking to take a solid stance on an issue, which makes reading said player easier late in the game.

[Oman]

I don't think you're evil. I think you're misguided. XReyoX, we can't be sure we even HAVE a doc.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

guh.... anyone that thinks i have written anything so far that is in any way defensive please read and reread posts 49 and 50.

if you still dont understand it please ask about the bit you dont understand. sorry but i honestly cant think of a way to make it clearer.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

if you are just skimming my posts then please at least read these two lines:

"at that point, i could hypothetically say that "even if i am the mafia, we should still lynch the cultist because he is more dangerous to the village". note that in no point am i even considering the fact that i am mafia because obviously i would know that i wasnt. however, i bring up that case because it is essentially something like a 'worst case scenario'. if we shouldnt lynch me in that spot when i am mafia then obviously we shouldnt ever lynch me in that spot.

this is similar to what i was saying, in that if we should discuss strat even in the worst case scenario where everyone is sure im a scum, then obviously we should discuss strat first in any spot."

[Elias_the_thief]

I understand the basic idea, and maybe defensive wasnt the right word. I dunno, you just seem like youre posting a lot more than you need to, almost like an overcompensation. I cant nail it down.

Regardless, I said I'm not suspicious of you. The more important part of my post earlier was the part refuting your suspicion of Reyo. Thats what I'd like a comment on.

[Oman]

Elias, is he like this all the time? You two have history, right?

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

at that point i had already informed reyo that she had misunderstood my post, either through my post not being clear enough or her misreading it.

from there she continued to push a point she knew was incorrect in order to push suspicion on me further. there is no question because she knew at that point the latter part of her question was irrefutably correct, unless she hasnt been bothering to pay attention to the thread at all.

thus the question was only aimed for pushing suspicion on me and was not genuine at all.

[Elias_the_thief]

at that point i had already informed reyo that she had misunderstood my post, either through my post not being clear enough or her misreading it.

from there she continued to push a point she knew was incorrect in order to push suspicion on me further. there is no question because she knew at that point the latter part of her question was irrefutably correct, unless she hasnt been bothering to pay attention to the thread at all.

thus the question was only aimed for pushing suspicion on me and was not genuine at all.

she already knew your point...she was asking someone else to take a stand. it is totally irrelevant whether she knew how she would have answered, the question was still meant to force another to take a stand on an issue. Im not saying its necessarily town, but what about it is scummy?

[Oman]

Elias, is he like this all the time? You two have history, right?

[Elias_the_thief]

Elias, is he like this all the time? You two have history, right?

no, hes changed some. before he got impatient and tired of town really quickly, and basically just swore at people (this was as town). And I apparently got really pissed at him, reading the old games. Ironically, thats kind of my style now, though not to the same extent. But yeah, hes definately a bit different in this game, either because of time away from the site or because of him being scum this time.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

i said before this game even began that regardless of role i was going to be much more patient. which is why im accepting that the reason ppl misunderstood my post is most likely in part due to me not being clear enough in what i said, and why i am taking the time to actually explain what i meant so there can me no further misunderstandings.

but yeah generally:

thinking im evil because im posting a lot + being more patient than in other games - ok, your entitled to your opinion.

thinking im evil because ive been overdefensive/thought there was a possibility that everyone was sure i was scum - no. this is not valid and simply wrong. i havent made one defensive post so far and anyone that thinks this has just completely misunderstood my posts.

[Oman]

Well, I won't vote him on changed behaviour, because being away from the site will change your playstyle.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

at that point i had already informed reyo that she had misunderstood my post, either through my post not being clear enough or her misreading it.

from there she continued to push a point she knew was incorrect in order to push suspicion on me further. there is no question because she knew at that point the latter part of her question was irrefutably correct, unless she hasnt been bothering to pay attention to the thread at all.

thus the question was only aimed for pushing suspicion on me and was not genuine at all.

she already knew your point...she was asking someone else to take a stand. it is totally irrelevant whether she knew how she would have answered, the question was still meant to force another to take a stand on an issue. Im not saying its necessarily town, but what about it is scummy?

ok consider this, i post the following question:

"elias, please comment on whether you think reyo is scum based on the fact that she claimed scum 2 pages ago?"

the thing is that she never did claim scum 2 pages ago. the question is loaded and based on a false premise. it only serves to encourage you to think she is scum, based on false information.

[Elias_the_thief]

ok consider this, i post the following question:

"elias, please comment on whether you think reyo is scum based on the fact that she claimed scum 2 pages ago?"

the thing is that she never did claim scum 2 pages ago. the question is loaded and based on a false premise. it only serves to encourage you to think she is scum, based on false information.

1) thats different, because a claim is something set in stone while overdefensiveness is something completely subjective.

2) thats different because reyo never implied you were overdefensive when asking blaze. She asked whether Blaze felt that you were or not. She didnt lie about anything, simply requested someones opinion on the issue. As I said, forcing someone to take a stand.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

fine, here is a better example:

"elias, do you think reyo has been overdefensive so far or do you think she is just being misundersttod?"

would that be ok for me to post?

[Norinel]

Whether or not posting too much is scummy might be disputable, but posting every single time anyone posts anything that could be considered as an attack with a detailed refutation just turns the thread into "OMG vs. everyone". And while that tells us a lot about OMG, we do need to consider other people too, since there are three bad guys out there already.

To comment on the one non-omg name that's come up, I must say I don't see where the Reyo accusation's coming from at all. He may have said other stuff that'd be worth a vote, but the bit OMG quoted wasn't it to me.

[Elias_the_thief]

fine, here is a better example:

"elias, do you think reyo has been overdefensive so far or do you think she is just being misundersttod?"

would that be ok for me to post?

no, because its still not a similar situation, as the assertion "reyo is being overdefensive" has not been widely made. At the point at which Reyo asked, 2-3 people had accused you of it, therefore making it a major issue in the game and worthy of a query.

[Oman]

fine, here is a better example:

"elias, do you think reyo has been overdefensive so far or do you think she is just being misundersttod?"

would that be ok for me to post?

no, because its still not a similar situation, as the assertion "reyo is being overdefensive" has not been widely made. At the point at which Reyo asked, 2-3 people had accused you of it, therefore making it a major issue in the game and worthy of a query.

Its also a false Dichotimy, XReyoX could be both or neither.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

fine, here is a better example:

"elias, do you think reyo has been overdefensive so far or do you think she is just being misundersttod?"

would that be ok for me to post?

no, because its still not a similar situation, as the assertion "reyo is being overdefensive" has not been widely made. At the point at which Reyo asked, 2-3 people had accused you of it, therefore making it a major issue in the game and worthy of a query.

they had accused me of it sure. but i then clarified it for those people that misread my post. which means that noone could possibly think that at the point her post was made.

[omg_im_innocent_wtf]

Whether or not posting too much is scummy might be disputable, but posting every single time anyone posts anything that could be considered as an attack with a detailed refutation just turns the thread into "OMG vs. everyone". And while that tells us a lot about OMG, we do need to consider other people too, since there are three bad guys out there already.

To comment on the one non-omg name that's come up, I must say I don't see where the Reyo accusation's coming from at all. He may have said other stuff that'd be worth a vote, but the bit OMG quoted wasn't it to me.

i have no problem with someone attacking me if it makes sense. if you were to say "omg has been suspicious in his bandwagon hopping today" and i actually had then there would be no refutation.

otoh, if you say "omg is being really overdefensive" when i havent posted a single defensive comment, then obviously i need to clarify it so you understand.

[Elias_the_thief]

they had accused me of it sure. but i then clarified it for those people that misread my post. which means that noone could possibly think that at the point her post was made.

that doesnt mean its scummy to ask a lurker for their opinion on the matter. it means that they want to get the opinion of a person on a major happening in the game. Again, the matter of Reyo knowing the answer that they would give for the same question is irrelevant. It really just isnt that scummy.

[Blazerunner]

Blaze: The reason why ppl random vote at the beginning of the game is to encourage disscusion. No discussions are pointless. You could sometimes work out the real intension of the people who start or join them.

So, do you think OMG was overdefensive, or others were just misunderstanding him?

As I said, this is my first forum game, and first day-start too, Im used to night-start, real-time games, like www.epicmafia.com, so Im still a bit puzzled

Anyway, I think people misunderstood OMG, there is nothing wrong in principle on saying "even if I am mafia, you should do this". People do it all the time. But I do think he is posting a lot and being somehow repetitive on his point, and that could be because people didnt seem to understand him nevertheless...

[Blazerunner]

I have 3 questions, 2 about rules and one about strategy:

1-If the cop investigates a cultist, will he know its a cultist? Or investigating tells him only "mafia-not mafia"

yes, think town- not town

2-If the answer for question 1 is "yes", and if the cultist attempts to recruit a vanilla townie, and the cop decides to investigate the same townie, will the recruit take place first, and then the cop will investigate and discover he is a cultist, or will the cop investigate first, think he is a townie, and then he will be recruited?

as per the rules, the recruit takes place when the day starts. investigation result occurs at night's end

3-About strategy now... Would it be a good strat for the village?
We dont lynch first day, second day the cop claims and gives his report, and doctor protects him.

I think its best not to lynch than killing a townie. But the strat I posted seems risky too, cause on night one, mafia could kill a power role, cultists recruit a townie and day 2 mafia fake claim cop... The scenario doesnt look nice