Think about the events of day one, and you will see what I mean. Scum could definitely deduce who the town leader is based on day one alone.
Micro 850: Follow the Leader (Game Over)
-
-
volxen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1419
- Joined: August 10, 2018
And by the way @Yellowsnow, if this game goes to day four then the solve I am leaning towards at the moment is that COA is scum. I've already explained why I have you as locktown. Auro made one post on day one that issomewhattown-indicative, but I definitely don't have him as locktown over it, so keep that in mind. Whereas COA didn't even post until day two, and I strongly suspect that scum figured out who the town leader is during night one, so her "towny entrance" on day two could easily be faked if she is scum and already knew who the town leader is.
Think about the events of day one, and you will see what I mean. Scum could definitely deduce who the town leader is based on day one alone."i agree it was a good that we outed PR volxen early..it's like he suddenly transformed from an ugly duckling into a beautiful(?) swan " - xwing (Newbie 1889: Ice Cream)-
-
Auro Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 11076
- Joined: October 9, 2018
- Location: India
-
-
volxen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1419
- Joined: August 10, 2018
@Yellowsnow, And what I mean with respect to Auro is, he made one post on day one that on the surface looks like it may have been written from the point of view of someone who knew who the town leader is (and I don't believe that scum figured out who the town leader is until night one), but it could also just be a coincidence that it comes across that way. It's not really definitive unfortunately, but it is probably more likely to come from town!Auro than scum!Auro.
On the other hand, I did find it a bit peculiar that COA came out of the gates on day two with a vote on Auro, only to do a complete 180 on Auro and start pushing Penguin instead after Auro called her out on her vote and basically said that her reasoning for townreading the people in her townblock applied to him as well.
I also don't understand her reversal on you and Auro. At the beginning of day two she was convinced that the entire scumteam was among {Penguin, TTTT, Auro}, and she had you in her locktown pile. Now Auro is in her locktown pile and she thinks you are scum if TTTT flips town.
She presumably had you as locktown on day two because of the context of your quickhammer on day one, as there would be no other reason to townread you based on your day one content. Now she seems to be suggesting that that kind of quickhammer is at least as likely, if not more likely, to come from scum!you rather than town!you. If she believes that, then why did she have you as locktown at the beginning of day two to begin with? Because your quickhammer on day one is literally the only reason why anyone should have you as locktown."i agree it was a good that we outed PR volxen early..it's like he suddenly transformed from an ugly duckling into a beautiful(?) swan " - xwing (Newbie 1889: Ice Cream)-
-
TTTT Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5323
- Joined: October 4, 2016
-
-
Auro Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 11076
- Joined: October 9, 2018
- Location: India
Yeah, your not posting got you into our PoEs
You're town? :$-
-
Auro Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 11076
- Joined: October 9, 2018
- Location: India
Volxen, do you think CoA could've arrived at the "PoE" without knowledge of the Leader when she made that post?
{PenguinPower, Auro, TTTT} -> One scum buddy, one zero-poster, and guesses that I'm not TL from your post 37. Not a hard PoE to arrive at by any means with no knowledge of the leader.
Then I call her vote out with enough confidence that she realized I made some crumb somewhere; reworks her PoE after a TTTT hammer while stating I'm locktown "without a single doubt in her mind" which is a bit fishy in retrospect.
You're the NK tonight anyway so I'd like your inputs as fast as possible. Also YS *please* reveal the leader in your next post so I know you're town.-
-
Something_Smart He/himSomewhat_BalancedHe/him
- Somewhat_Balanced
- Somewhat_Balanced
- Posts: 23129
- Joined: November 17, 2015
- Pronoun: He/him
- Location: Upstate New York
(LYNCH)
Not voting (2)- TTTT, volxen
With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch.
(expired on 2019-03-05 02:00:00)
Mod notes: A lynch has been achieved![/area]
TTTT was lynched Day 3. He was a...
Spoiler:
A win condition has been achieved!
The town members mourn the death of their leaderTheGoldenParadoxbut celebrate in their victory.
Congratulations to theTownof Micro 850!It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!-
-
Auro Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 11076
- Joined: October 9, 2018
- Location: India
Woohoo!
Easy game.
Volxen, I thought your crumb was obvious xD I was pretty worried the game was compromised.-
-
Something_Smart He/himSomewhat_BalancedHe/him
- Somewhat_Balanced
- Somewhat_Balanced
- Posts: 23129
- Joined: November 17, 2015
- Pronoun: He/him
- Location: Upstate New York
It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!-
-
Auro Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 11076
- Joined: October 9, 2018
- Location: India
The possibility I was referring to was scum incorrectly assuming Not_Mafia was the town leader (which I believe was likely because of the N1 kill and Vedith's attack on PP); so with some confidence in their guess it makes sense for YS to act as though NM *is* the town leader. The hammer wouldn't be completely dangerous because from his perspective the Vedith wagon grew too fast and "you know why" is a generic bluff worthy of taking.In post 167, Auro wrote:@Volxen: I understand why you think so. I have a reason to believe it might not be correct. Anyway just wait till YS claims TL.-
-
Auro Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 11076
- Joined: October 9, 2018
- Location: India
In post 25, TTTT wrote:NM as Leader makes sense with how yellowsnow played
but I'm not sure it works with volxen's 24-
-
Something_Smart He/himSomewhat_BalancedHe/him
- Somewhat_Balanced
- Somewhat_Balanced
- Posts: 23129
- Joined: November 17, 2015
- Pronoun: He/him
- Location: Upstate New York
So I do want people's feedback on this setup, because I think the concept is interesting and it was definitely cool how the town members went about forming a townblock. If the scum had either caught on earlier to what had happened (especially if TTTT had been able to come in and do something similar to what CoA did), of if PP had been able to bluff his way out by saying how obvious it should be that he was town, they would have been able to put up more of a fight, but I do think that 7:2 is probably too difficult of a ratio for scum.
I suggested in the dead thread running this at 5:2, which might be perfect because after the Vedith mislynch this would have gone into LYLO, and then people's paranoia D2 of someone like CoA or Auro snowing everyone would have been way higher than it was. Another possibility is running it at 8:3, because then scum have more chances to get one of their members into the townblock. (i.e. if they think there's a decent chance X is the leader, they can have one of their members start playing like X is the leader and if they're wrong then it's not the end of the world.)
If I ran it at either of those ratios, would you guys play it again? Which one would you prefer?It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!-
-
Auro Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 11076
- Joined: October 9, 2018
- Location: India
@Mafia team:
Find above Volxen's obvcrumb. I chain-townread Volxen a few posts later as an indirect crumb. Vedithlookedlike obvscum so YellowSnow's confidence was probtown. CoA posting a nearly correct PoE first thing D2 making her part of the townblock.
This was a townsided game but if you guys spotted Volx's crumb it would've been a nightmare-
-
TheGoldenParadox heMafia Scumhe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2971
- Joined: November 8, 2017
- Pronoun: he
- Location: SF Bay Area
OMFG I just realized how obvious of a crumb that was.In post 187, Auro wrote:@Mafia team:
Find above Volxen's obvcrumb. I chain-townread Volxen a few posts later as an indirect crumb. Vedithlookedlike obvscum so YellowSnow's confidence was probtown. CoA posting a nearly correct PoE first thing D2 making her part of the townblock.
This was a townsided game but if you guys spotted Volx's crumb it would've been a nightmare-
-
Something_Smart He/himSomewhat_BalancedHe/him
- Somewhat_Balanced
- Somewhat_Balanced
- Posts: 23129
- Joined: November 17, 2015
- Pronoun: He/him
- Location: Upstate New York
Yeah it was pretty obvious.
I thought it was clever at the time but there was a definitely a chance for it to backfire.
As much as Auro was telling me he really didn't want to be scum, it would have been cool to see him be scum because I bet he would have caught itIt's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!-
-
TheGoldenParadox heMafia Scumhe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2971
- Joined: November 8, 2017
- Pronoun: he
- Location: SF Bay Area
Although that game was so easy we didn't have to claim.
I knew this game was broken, I signed up for it because it was broken, and I was thrilled when I rolled town because of how ridiculously townsided that game was. Scum, you played well, although TTTT not posting gave you away.
CoA, can you now explain in detail how you were able to create that townblock? I understand myself, volxen (the crumb) and yellow (the hammer), although I failed to see why Auro was included.-
-
TheGoldenParadox heMafia Scumhe
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2971
- Joined: November 8, 2017
- Pronoun: he
- Location: SF Bay Area
I'd play 8:3 or maybe even 8:4. 5:2 would be a quick, boring game where 2 ICs would be created d1/2.In post 186, Something_Smart wrote:So I do want people's feedback on this setup, because I think the concept is interesting and it was definitely cool how the town members went about forming a townblock. If the scum had either caught on earlier to what had happened (especially if TTTT had been able to come in and do something similar to what CoA did), of if PP had been able to bluff his way out by saying how obvious it should be that he was town, they would have been able to put up more of a fight, but I do think that 7:2 is probably too difficult of a ratio for scum.
I suggested in the dead thread running this at 5:2, which might be perfect because after the Vedith mislynch this would have gone into LYLO, and then people's paranoia D2 of someone like CoA or Auro snowing everyone would have been way higher than it was. Another possibility is running it at 8:3, because then scum have more chances to get one of their members into the townblock. (i.e. if they think there's a decent chance X is the leader, they can have one of their members start playing like X is the leader and if they're wrong then it's not the end of the world.)
If I ran it at either of those ratios, would you guys play it again? Which one would you prefer?-
-
YellowSnow Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 708
- Joined: December 4, 2018
-
-
TTTT Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5323
- Joined: October 4, 2016
day1 was over before I even saw it startedIn post 190, TheGoldenParadox wrote:Scum, you played well, although TTTT not posting gave you away.
CoA had solved the game before I saw day2 started
at that point my goal became to get lynched as scum in a game without posting or being replaced-
-
TTTT Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5323
- Joined: October 4, 2016
-
-
TTTT Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5323
- Joined: October 4, 2016
-
-
volxen Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1419
- Joined: August 10, 2018
LOL, so it really was the easy solve. Sigh. Sorry COA, but I'm usually inclined to believe that every game has at least one deepwolf, and I thought you could have been it this game. But I also had my supsicions that Auro could have been hardcore deepwolfing as well.
Yeah my goal with that silly RVS vote (voting TGP because "green is superior to gold") was to make it blantantly obvious to all fellowtowniesthat I was town, because what are the odds that I would vote for the town leader like that with such a goofy reason on page one? I felt that every single townie would pick up on it, but scum wouldn't be able to make sense of it, because to the uninformed (i.e., scum) it looks like just another silly RVS vote. Although I suppose there's the argument that the whole bit about "green vs gold" was bit a risky, because green is the color associated with town (which is also my favorite color!), and perhaps I was indirectly saying "Hey, I know you have a green role PM TGP". But I didn't think scum could confidently make that assumption based on that alone, and I felt it was entirely worth it to get myself locked in as town right off the bat on early day one.
Funny enough, I placed an RVS vote for Yellowsnow for the exact same reason in Newbie 1913 ("green is a better color than yellow"). I knew I wanted to crumb right off the bat on day one that I knew TGP was the town leader, but I remembered my RVS vote from Newbie 1913 and decided to do the same thing here with respect to TGP.
Link to Newbie 1913: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=78419
Link to my RVS vote in Newbie 1913: viewtopic.php?p=10673889#p10673889
Now the reason why I defended town!Yellowsnow so hard is because of this sequence:
In post 28, TheGoldenParadox wrote:Okay.
The game mechanic can be used to confirm two or more people.
When we have someone we would otherwise lynch, we force them to say who town leader is.
We then force the second most scummy player to confirm the town leader.
Town then votes HEAL or HURT, if that is the correct answer or not.
If they get it correct, both the first person and the town leader are ICs - generating 2 ICs.
The second is not confirmed, but should be leantown.
If the first one gets it incorrect, and the second one disagrees, we have 1 conf scum, and can repeat this process.
If the first one gets it incorrect, and the second one agrees, we have 2 conf scum and can repeat.
If the first one gets it correct, and the second one disagrees, we have 1 conf scum (player 2) and 2 conf town (player 1 + town leader)
Only breadcrumb town leader if you know you can do it without mafia figuring out and it can only be seen if you explain it.
VOTE: Vedith because first you suggest not only a nolynch, but a SPEED nolynch, and then follow it up with 26 and 27.In post 29, Vedith wrote:No we're not outing the IC day 1 and that's even more scummy than my idea.
After PP is lynched today I will be on you tomorrow.In post 43, YellowSnow wrote:Cause he's scum.
Simply, it came down to the question of, "What would drive a townie to quickhammer someone on page two on day one?" The only logical explanation that made sense is because Vedith inadvertently made it look like he didn't know who the town leader is by pretending to scumread TGP. Vedith talks about lynching PenguinPower on day one, and TGP on day two. Auro, Not_Mafia, and Yellowsnow all vote him back-to-back after that post, with Yellowsnow being the hammer voter. That is why Yellowsnow was the only person I had as 100% locktown. Yellowsnow objectively had more town equity than Auro because while Auro joined as the third voter on a wagon that could have easily dissolved if Vedith had been given a chance to town it up, Yellowsnow is the one who took Vedith out after he listed TGP as a scumread. And COA didn't even post until day two, and with my theory that scum figured out who the town leader is on night one, that absolutely meant that Yellowsnow objectively had more town equity than COA as well. The sequence of events on day one clearly demonstrated that YellowsnowIn post 51, YellowSnow wrote:You should know why I voted him.KNEWTGP was the town leader, and that was the one and only reason why he quickhammered Vedith (and also why he didn't quickhammer Not_Mafia, who also got up to L-1).
Now I had my suspicions that Vedith could have been town, but playing a more advanced game of pretending to scumread the town leader to throw off scum. It's definitely a gambity play because it makes you look like scum via being uninformed, but at the same time it's not really good if everyone has the townleader as locktown. So I understand why he did it, and that's why I genuinely didn't want Yellowsnow to lolhammer like he did, but I nevertheless fully understoodWHYtown!Yellowsnow would pull that move.
On the other hand, Auro made this post on day one:
Because Auro and I have so much history together (between playing against each other and hydraing together), I wasn't convinced that day one post from him was 100% proof that he is town, because I could see scum!Auro entering the game by fake townreading me and coming up with a reason to insert himself onto the Vedith wagon ("uncomfortable with his transition to serious play"). Especially because I was already on the wagon, and in this game it's much more safe toIn post 38, Auro wrote:I'm not commenting on plans just yet.
Volxen, you should avoid posting analysis right now - you'd only end up telling scum how to play, and I think the reveal should happen lategame, by which point there's a wealth of content.
Townread on Volxen, pretty good at reading him.
Vedith's early posts were troll posts - uncomfortable with his transition to "serious" play, I can roll with this wagon.
VOTE: Vedithjoinan existing wagon as scum rather than tostarta new one, since you run the risk of inadvertently pushing and starting a wagon on the town leader. As town it makes complete sense why he would say this, but I also thought it was entirely possible that he was scum, didn't know who the town leader was on day one, and it just ended up that his whole "uncomfortable with his transition to serious play" was an odd coincidence that made him look like he knew who the town leader was when he really didn't. If Auro had somehow crumbed or referred to TGP directly one day one, I probably would have had him as locktown as well, but he didn't take it that far. Then I reasoned that if Auro is scum, he knew by night one who the town leader is by looking atWHYYellowsnow lolhammered Vedith (there is only one reason why town!Yellowsnow would do this), so he came out of the gates on day two by saying "look for a chain" (see posts 65 and 67), knowing that he inadvertently made himself look like he knew who the town leader was on day one when he really didn't, and was capitalizing on that to get himself falsely locked in as town. Believe me, I've played with Auro enough and I know that if he was scum in this game, he would have been able to deduce that TGP is the town leader via Yellowsnow's quickhammer of Vedith, and he would capitalize on anything he did on day one that arguably made it look like he knew who the town leader is, even though scum!Auro wouldn't have known who the town leader is on day one. I also think scum!Auro probably would open with fake townreading me as opposed to fake scumreading me, as it's easier for him to do that given all of our history together, and it probably makes me less inclined to case him as hard as I would if he were to falsely push me as a scumread.
That's what I was trying to get across during day 3 as far as why Yellowsnow was the only person I had as 100% locktown."i agree it was a good that we outed PR volxen early..it's like he suddenly transformed from an ugly duckling into a beautiful(?) swan " - xwing (Newbie 1889: Ice Cream)-
-
Something_Smart He/himSomewhat_BalancedHe/him
- Somewhat_Balanced
- Somewhat_Balanced
- Posts: 23129
- Joined: November 17, 2015
- Pronoun: He/him
- Location: Upstate New York
Even more than that, I used two different shades of green for the VT (In post 196, volxen wrote:Although I suppose there's the argument that the whole bit about "green vs gold" was bit a risky, because green is the color associated with town (which is also my favorite color!), and perhaps I was indirectly saying "Hey, I know you have a green role PM TGP".#00DD00) and leader (#008800) role PM's, and the color you used (#008000) was very close to the leader colorIt's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!-
-
RadiantCowbells He/himSmooth CriminalHe/him
- Smooth Criminal
- Smooth Criminal
- Posts: 70855
- Joined: February 24, 2013
- Pronoun: He/him
- Happy Birthday!
-
-
Something_Smart He/himSomewhat_BalancedHe/him
- Somewhat_Balanced
- Somewhat_Balanced
- Posts: 23129
- Joined: November 17, 2015
- Pronoun: He/him
- Location: Upstate New York
Hey, scum almost killed CoA before she made a single post. In retrospect, maybe they should have.It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!
Copyright © MafiaScum. All rights reserved.