Alisae V Pine: Trees Apparently Make Good Treestumps

[Krazy]

Pops are there any vidja games you don't play to completion?

[Krazy]

VOTE: aristophanes.

Mastina's logic is flawless

[Krazy]

Damn, Penguins, dancing fruit guy, and now 90s saved by the bell. I like this trajectory, Penguin.

[Krazy]

Since this is singleball I'm thinking Mena's town, when he was scum he had a very particular feel to his posts and I'm not getting that here. Thinking of Micc's Pokemon game where I was on my Pikachu account and he replaced into scum.

[Krazy]

VOTE: lld

Choo choo!

[Krazy]

Oh shit it's Krazy don't leave

VOTE: Krazy

Are you questioning the party train?

[Krazy]

Yeah I reckon you're a solid scumpick by Pine although nobody has really touched on that. Perhaps especially because nobody has really touched on that. And you've done fuck all to convince otherwise

I mean the last game I played with Pine I seem to recall doing nothing but insult him, I don't even think he likes me LOL

Maybe I'm wrong, idk I haven't really talked to him since vengeful ghosts, but if he even remembers who I am (given I was on the super hydra) then I don't think he has any positive feelings toward me. I'm pretty sure I'm only here because of Jingle/Alisae.

But yeah I'm still not really very present, I don't want to make excuses but I wasn't really planning to play more mafia for a while and I'm pretty much only skimming this thread and looking for things that really jump out at me like LLD's caps wallpost

[Krazy]

and krazy's content is a fucking joke,

Ah man, this hits me right in the nostalgias. Can you believe it's been almost a decade since our first game together?

[Krazy]

You should celebrate your anniversary Krazy

True but it hasn't been 8 continuous years given I took a break from the site for like 6 of them.

[Krazy]

Keith is GreyICE is LLD's husband.
Lexi is LLD is GreyICE's wife.

Aww if they had kids then they'd have a Lil'Moriarty

[Krazy]

Fire do you remember Witches Halloween Ball?

[Krazy]

That's like my only other game with LLD and she was scum there, but I also remember a few people saying "LLD is always like 'this' regardless of alignment" so getting a second perspective on whether it's actually similar would be nice, since you were scum with here there I wasn't sure if you'd have any insight on how her townplay differs from her scumplay

[Krazy]

Ok skitter

[Krazy]

Wait wait wait

Is Maria's name chelsea? I did not even know that 0.o

[Krazy]

It's not impossible I'm wrong on Mena, but as scum he projected a lot more hyperconfidence and seemed more openly aggressive with his reads. Like he's not super quiet about his thoughts here but he seemed more uncertain in some places that made sense to be uncertain and I kinda got the thought he was thinking about the game rather than just trying to project confidence like does more in his early scumplay. He could evolve his play though; if this game had third parties I wouldn't say I've seen anything that says "obvtown" to me, he just feels different from his groupscum play.

[Krazy]

Do you have a lot of games with Pine that I am unaware of? Otherwise if I'm keeping my hydras straight I think you'd be a lower priority pick for him.

@ank

[Krazy]

Do you have a lot of games with Pine that I am unaware of? Otherwise if I'm keeping my hydras straight I think you'd be a lower priority pick for him.

@ank

ank is a high priority pick I feel because you don't want me to have town!ank

You think Pine feels that way?

[Krazy]

Krazy, go down the playerlist and tell me who you think Pine wants first

Duck would be a likely first pick. Duck is a pretty reasonable pick for Jingle too though, but given Duck kicked butt in Vengeful Ghosts I could see Pine picking there to keep the juices flowing.

[Krazy]

I'd say Reck is a pretty decent candidate, in the speakeasy he said Reck got "robbed" from SUPP

[Krazy]

What could possibly be better than gazing at the sky? Arguing you to the moon and back. Everyone knows her, everyone loves her, Titus has joined the quest!

This is replacing UT slot right?

[Krazy]

Oh no I'm dumb, I didn't realize SkyGazer outed

[Krazy]

Jingle can you make the replacements clear in the OP, since this a game with a picking mechanic I just realized I've been saying dumb things

[Krazy]

wait you did and I literally just suck

I think I need to have a drink or something before trying to form sentences or get a grip on this game

[Krazy]

Krazy engaging my point about pine drafting me or not really rubs me the wrong way

I mean I asked what games you have with Pine that I might not be aware of just because the game has a picking mechanic, my thought was that you were probably town because, idk, I was thinking of Vengeful Ghosts and I was not assuming he'd want anyone from our hydra after that game. But it's also possible other people thought about that game differently than I did, but basically I haven't really thought about your alignment very much because I just wasn't thinking Pine would make you a high pick. Other people are arguing the point so now I guess I should think about it, although I pretty much never lynch you here over LLD or Ari so *shrug* you'll probably be solved sooner than later through night actions in the scenario where I do have to think about you.

[Krazy]

Because while I know she'd be a perfect pick for Pine, she's just an obvtown slot.

Huh? I mean I know I'm not one to comment on an empty iso, but are we reading a different set of ten posts or something?

[Krazy]

Pine controls who replaces into his scumteam and Jingle controls who replaces into the town, and Titus is more of a Jingle replacement than a Pine replacement.

@Jingle

is this how replacements work this game?

[Krazy]

MariaR
^Pine could pick MariaR because she's an absurdly good scum player and not really the best town player. Could. I don't think he did tho. I admit, I don't have any logic, any reasoning behind this. Just gut, that she's town this game.

Kinda agree

Gamma Emerald
^Gamma's similar to MariaR, but better as town and worse as scum. Still GOOD as scum, and reasonably decent as town. So Pine could pick Gamma. I just don't think he did. Again, no reasoning tho. Just gut. I know from experience I can't really read Gamma, but I just FEEL Gamma's town.

Not so sure on this one

Dannflor
^Dannflor is an amazing town player but I've zero idea how Pine would think of him in terms of selecting him as a scumbuddy. That having been said: his play this game is incredibly underwhelming given what he's capable of. It's a little bit iffy as a result.

I kinda think Dann actually is an above average equity pick also because of Vengeful Ghosts; he had a night 1 save as a doctor (even though, as far as I know, Pine completely forgot this occurred halfway through the game--so your mileage may vary here). Still Dann and Duck kinda saved the game in the dead thread with him so I think Dann and Duck both have pretty decent pick equity.

[Krazy]

mastina's town btw

[Krazy]

The last time I had that stance on him...he was scum.

wasn't that also your reasoning in EICN when I basically didn't play the first fifty pages and then you didn't realize which head I was after that?

[Krazy]

Alisae / Krazy

Think is town: Menalque / mastina / ankamius

Lean town: MariaR / Katsuki / Chickadee

Slight lean/town: Titus / Formerfish / Pink Ball / PenguinPower / GreyICE

Ehh: Gamma Emerald / DrippingGoofball / Firebringer / xofelf / Iconeum / popsofctown / Jjh927 / chenni

Plausibly scum: xReckonerx/UT / Aristophanes / Dannflor

Decent scum equity: Lady Lambdadelta / the worst

Pine

[Krazy]

Actually, jjh maybe goes down a notch, his play in VG was pretty good for scum and it wouldn't surprise me if Pine made him a higher pick based on what happened there (even if his faction lost overall his individual play was still really strong)

[Krazy]

Anyone that wants to help me nudge the 7 ehhs up or down is welcome to

[Krazy]

Krazy how caught up are you exactly

I'm not going to pretend I've read every post of every page because I definitely haven't and don't plan to

For most of the "ehh" people I haven't really even properly skimmed their isos yet, that's more my "to do" pile.

[Krazy]

Which?

[Krazy]

Ico and jjh

do you feel like you have a decent read rate on jjh?

[Krazy]

Pops

Can you expand on pops read a bit?

[Krazy]

Yeah I agree on 1161, in fact I made the same point except I said "choo choo" instead :3

[Krazy]

Not really, do you? Also why not ask about Ico too?

Just surprised at your level of confidence, trying to remember the extent of your interactions with him (jjh) in Anime upick. You seemed to be expressing a decent level of confidence on your read there but maybe that's just where your gut lies right now? Ico I just feel like is generally a hard read because his baseline is pretty scummy, but you in particular being confident on jjh kinda surprised me

[Krazy]

Yeah I agree on 1161, in fact I made the same point except I said "choo choo" instead :3

Huh

The time has come to lynch LLD, Gamma.



ALL ABOARD

[Krazy]

I did jack shit in Retro Anime UPick so I don't understand using it for anything regarding me

Hence why I asked, since I didn't remember you catching him there but I wasn't really sure if you actually felt fooled by him. I guess you more just didn't engage with that game so you might be right, just trying to understand how you're approaching that read. What do you think is townie about jjh?

[Krazy]

can we not end the day yet tho

what else do you want to do with this day dann?

[Krazy]

i have a very important spicy post to make

is it a spicy reads list?

didn't you want to talk to me about reads? what ever happened to that? what did you think of my last reads list?

[Krazy]

it's unfortunate that you're probably scum this game

o rly? and why is that?

[Krazy]

I made a promise to Ank

I'll vote LLD when I'm good and ready

Krazy be patient my friend

but now you've piqued my interest!!!

you're going to lowball me like that then just leave me hanging?

[Krazy]

what do you mean by testing pine

I feel like ideally nobody should be bargaining for fruit at all

but that's kind of a hopeless wish

Why?

[Krazy]

Was the crunch of the fruit fully explained somewhere? i.e. does it have to be used the same night it's given?

[Krazy]

Is he mechanically incentivized to give the power to town? Like is he restricted from exclusively giving it to scum? Or can he simply refuse to give out fruit altogether?

[Krazy]

monkeys fist situation going on.

what does this mean?

[Krazy]

Why do I feel like you're purposefully playing dumb about this

If it's so obvious why are you passively complaining about GE making a bargain but not actually objecting to it directly?

[Krazy]

I’ll give the Watcher fruit to whoever hammers LLD

is this still in effect, Pine? Like is this a mechanically locked Bargain or more just you saying something you'll do? It's really unclear what all is mech and not with your posts tbh

[Krazy]

Hmm, is bargaining gated by hammer?

Whatever, I didn't hammer but I'm still curious how all this works

Bargain Watcher Fruit

Is this void since hammer or is the bargaining irrespective of dayphases? It seems like you make the actual choices in twilight?

[Krazy]

the fruit just probably helps scum more than town

I mean I don't know, I feel like most of the time in Jingle games abilities are meant to be used. If he can simply give it to scum at night if no one bargains, isn't the bigger challenge for town getting a pool of people bargaining for the abilities finite enough that the choice is meaningful?

[Krazy]

Although I guess Jingle was maybe kinda involved in Revenge and that game had some fucky mechanics. "Scum can only kill people if they figure out the main account" --> "Scum can only kill people who have received fruit!"

I kinda doubt that though, can't we just 'ask'. Like, @Pine, are people who receive fruit more open to targeted abilities by the scum than other players?

[Krazy]

But ive liked you all game.

have you played with pops a lot before?

[Krazy]

But Krazy went from probably scum to just definitely scum.

Tell me more and can I subscribe to your newsletter?

[Krazy]

ank is town

[Krazy]

Well I haven't seen Ank roll scum against me in anything except memey micro games, but I've never been wrong on my townread of her in a large to date and feel like she's on the easier side to read if you look at her tone and thought process. I'm not 100% certain yet but I'm feeling pretty good about it

[Krazy]

oh ok dann is scum

[Krazy]

Gamma's also scum lol

this game

[Krazy]

Yeah except you've literally only ever pushed me when you're scum, Gamma

[Krazy]

pedit: also bahahaha this whole "ooh how does fruit work let me bargain for it" the past 10 posts is so fucking fake

town Dann never writes this lol

[Krazy]

Yeah that's some real intellectual honesty, saying because someone hasn't ever pushed you as town yet they have to be scum

Except it's not just one way. Every time you're scum you come out with some sort of hyper confidence on me day 1. Either you're trying to get in my pants like in Merchant's Dance or you've decided you think I'm scum like in Overkill 2. I've played with you enough that when you come out with some strong opinion of me day 1 it's almost universally a bad sign for your alignment lol.

[Krazy]

Why are Dancefloor and Gamamaeralds town, pink floof?

[Krazy]

Well I look forward to eating your bullet mastina <3

[Krazy]

I think his reaction to the appreciation page was townie. I don't think he would seize the opportunity to interact with me when I was being genuine and doing something not game related.

Cool, can you say which posts this was? Like his posts starting from here? viewtopic.php?p=11237876#p11237876

I don't see anything in the next two pages so I guess you mean that post and this post viewtopic.php?p=11237894#p11237894 ?

[Krazy]

Gamma because I'm bad at reading him and he called me out for it when I threw him bait.

I mean, I get the sentiment here but I feel like Gamma is more openly manipulative about people's reads on him when he is scum.

[Krazy]

Alright it looks like there's already been some discussion on whether Ank has a comprehensible crumb. I'm not sure my theory is better than anyone else's but I figure it's at least worth asking about.

Ankamius
Alisae
Chickadee
Aristophanes
The worst
Firebringer
Greyice
Skygazer
MariaR
Untrod Tripod
Krazy
DrippingGoofball
Xofelf
Pink Ball
Katsuki
Formerfish
PenguinPower
Jjh927
Popsofctown
Gamma Emerald
Iconeum
Dannflor
Mastina
chennisden
Menalque
Lady Lambdadelta
Pine

Roughly where my reads are at atm

4. I'm pretty much always a nightkill by scum this game as town, most likely in midgame somewhere before I hit my stride and start hitting outright solves. I'd be surprised if scum didn't have at least one person that was aware of this, and Pine has seen a recent enough example to believe it.

5. Alisae, this is specifically to you: I've literally never played with Menalque before. I don't know how he plays. He fits the specific type of player I've been trying to hunt for because the way I'm seeing the game, that specific type is the most likely to hold scum. His response to me was horrific. At best, he has a playstyle that will always result in false positives for me, but I don't actually understand what about him is townreadable unless he just has one of those weird playstyles I can't actually read.

1906 is Ank's longest post, and she spends a whole point emphasizing how likely she is to be killed at night, and then immediately follows it with a discussion of Menalque and how difficult it is to read him, specifically calling out Alisae. I'm just saying, given 1906 is Ank's longest post, she wanted Mena basically all day, but she also wanted him gone *in part because she felt he was unreadable* he sounds like someone she would be very inclined to want a mech result on, unlike other people who she only mentioned in passing. Additionally, given her reads list on 1548, there's no reason to think she would have had an incentive to seriously reconsider her reads after LLD's flip.

I say this as someone who spent day 1 mostly townreading Menalque, and I am well aware I could be wrong here. But she was still scumreading Mena late into the day and ultimately I've only played with scum Mena once so I have to consider I was just wrong there.

Obviously other people have theories on what might have been Ank's most likely crumb, but overall I think ignoring Ank's actually likely targets is a bad idea. In any case I do see there being likely opposed candidates for crumbs from later in the day but to me this really looks like a Mena check.

VOTE: Mena

[Krazy]

Btw I won't be campaigning for a Krazy lynch yet but it's definitely something I'll keep in mind, I kinda expect good things from Krazy

Was this in response to something from this dayphase?

[Krazy]

I'm still 100% down for a Krazy lynch

his posts at the end of D1 were disgusting

Which of my posts specifically were "disgusting"?

[Krazy]

The OMGUS reaction was extreme and you refused to engage with me beyond that

Well, I've never seen you as town aggressively argue that a simple group of posts discussing mech is "so fucking fake"

I mean, you were in Merchant's Dance. People were sick of talking about who had the most coins and how we should play as a result, and I was very much in that discussion, and changed my interpretation of how the mech should inform play like two or three times. So I just find it very unusual for you to take a look at some mech discussion and call it "fake" -- especially when you yourself are talking about the same mech at the same time and offering questionable(?) theories about its use.

[Krazy]

I don't think Ankamius targets a scum read anymore

and Menalque was still a scum read for Ank late D1 pretty sure

So what's your theory then?

[Krazy]

hunting in a list of town reads seems like a terrible idea

So your argument is to totally drop Ank's possible results?

What's your read of Mena/other candidates rn independently of any Ank stuff?

[Krazy]

guys Ari is town

Yeah probs.

UNVOTE:

In overkill 2 you never did a pure unvote without voting someone new.

[Krazy]

Trade mastina for Mena?

[Krazy]

Aside from any reticence one might have about lynching a bodyguard claim, Menalque has seemed townier than mastina to me. I might not be the best objective party since I was scumreading the townslot he 1v1'ed though :X er, wait... I think that'd be a handicap against him?

Mastina hasn't really impressed me yet this game.

I feel like expecting her to be "impressive" in a way that's comprehensible isn't a great idea.

I'm not locked on her but I feel like she's more likely to be town than scum here

[Krazy]

What made you so confident in town Dann that you wanted to treat him like a mason?

[Krazy]

Welcome back Penguin!

How have you been?

Also, what do you think about fishy?

[Krazy]

Well he bargained for the roleblock fruit, do you think he should get it (i.e. do you think he is town) or do you think Alisae should get someone else to bargain for it?

Glad to hear that things are going well

[Krazy]

Uhhh yeah. Who are you again? We’re not friends.

wait wait wait

there are people who aren't friends with the duck?

[Krazy]

oh hey duck is town

man when was the last time I had this feeling?

[Krazy]

i think the worst is town ftr

it's really weird that your posts at EoD yesterday still pinged me more than anything I've seen from you since ND but I still feel like I'm mindmelding with you here

you leave me with confused feelings toward you Dann, why do you confuse my heart?

[Krazy]

oh hey duck is town

man when was the last time I had this feeling?

when you were scum

FULL STOP

[Krazy]

are you repressing vengeful ghosts

I'm sorry I don't know what game you're talking about

[Krazy]

So this gamble shit has to be resolved before day end if fish is going to get the block right

Pine are you stalling or something or what?

[Krazy]

Krazy could you tell LLD I really liked her style please??

are you implying you're vigging me or something? I don't get this

[Krazy]

No no like in the scum PT, could you post there that I liked her?

did you start scum reading me at some point? where is this coming from?

[Krazy]

PB are you still at Mena town "no matter what he flips"? I think that was the last time you gave something resembling a read on him

[Krazy]

i remember his read on me. good pocket attempt.

Are you turning into Flavor Leaf? Do I need to pretend to nullread you just to keep you from getting the wrong read of me?

[Krazy]

Yeah Mena is town why you ask?

You apparently don't remember anything I've done today and that's probably related to everyone disagreeing with me that Mena was Ank's most likely check target.

Now that I look, I can't quickly find you talking about Ank's flip basically at all. Did you see a weak hider flip and then have no reaction or contribution to what that might mean?

[Krazy]

elaborate?

When I first came back to the site I think duck rolled scum against me like three times in a row or something silly

[Krazy]

And like why would you abstain for cred when it doesn't do you any good until I flip?

I'm not parsing some of what you're saying here.

[Krazy]

...

maybe read her iso?

[Krazy]

I'm pretty sure there was a similar situation on Undertale Mafia and it was worthless iirc

I mean, that's where there was largescale agreement that there was one specific crumb that was a crumb. That's not really the case here--it's simply a matter of who Ank wanted basically all day, including in a very long post where she emphasized she'd never be able to townread him due to lack of familiarity with his meta and his playstyle. Like knowing her that's a really good reason for her to mech check him.

But I understand without a clear cut crumb, it's risky to lynch Mena just based on that. But why do you townread him there? I was townreading him on day 1 mostly because he felt different than he did in that Micc pokeman game, but honestly without a deeper sense of his scum range that's not good enough for me now. Are there specific posts you townread? You've played with him as town right?

[Krazy]

Because the target was obvious after 1906? Like she talked about you a bit at the end of the day but I don't remember there being big pushback on you. Ank would want to check someone that would be obvious she was checking without a crumb if there was no crumb, and someone that would be highly informative for her given Mena was getting pushback and if she did get a clear on Mena that would give her more information about the people who were defending him.

I also just kinda don't think Ank uses a night 1 hide on a townread (like Mena argues) or on someone who in 1548 she lists above Gamma and Dann. I think she's probably getting pissed in the graveyard most likely because I think if you look at her iso wholistically her target is obvious without the need for a crumb

[Krazy]

I think ank dying implies one of the following is scum:

Chickadee
Aristophanes
The worst
Firebringer
Greyice
Skygazer

Why? Because she stated around this readlist that she had 6 TRs and then (as pointed out later) she refused to give another readslist. The fact that she made comments about living to the next day means she probably aimed at town and hit someone in those names.

Also I feel like this post is just scummy independently and is almost certainly not how Ank plays night

[Krazy]

@krazy if I were a hider in this game I would try to confirm town instead of proving that one of my scumreads is scum, especially if the rest of the playerlist don't have enough info on who I checked.

OK but I don't think this is how Ank would play weak hider, so while that's how you might play it, I don't think that's how SHE would play it

[Krazy]

Good night, Pink Floof

[Krazy]

I'm ready to end the day ig

so we're not waiting for fruit shit to resolve?

[Krazy]

also I only skimmed the last ~10 pages, but Krazy I thought that you ranked Xofelf as the most likely target for Ank, not me? if that's right, why the flip in your opinion

? I think the only person who argued xof was a possible crumb target was Ari

[Krazy]

Krazy, also, talk to me about why Ank uses her hider to try and find scum instead of hiding behind town? I don't know her v well (obviously) so I'd like to know why you think that's a more likely play

from her specifically

?

Because I think she would want higher impact early in the game; when she gets going, she puts a lot of energy into her pushes, so if she really thinks that going into day 2 she would be likely to drive a lynch on someone, she would not waste a hide on a likely inno, she'd want to make sure she wasn't going to waste her effort and thought during the day on a bad read. Correcting a bad read is way more important (or confirming a guilty)... I also feel like Ank is not super concerned with dying if she feels it will get her a guilty, given she has been reducing her number of games anyway. Like she gets dragged into a lot of hydras so suiciding for a guilty doesn't really seem like something she'd be dramatically opposed to. She also seemed kinda frustrated that her read on you was being ignored, frankly.

[Krazy]

I think one of the reasons why pine might have brought me in would be for me to try and hard pocket you

Where did you succeed in pocketing PB before?

[Krazy]

Also, don't like that based on my Ank thinking two people from that group were very viable hider targets for her.

I kinda feel like you arguing that Ank hid behind Chicka or duck is fearmongering

[Krazy]

I see that she also had doubts about you

because I wasn't sheeping her on her read of you...

in pfup I think we consistently TR each other from early D1 despite some late game paranoia in both directions

but Pine wasn't in that game? And you weren't scum? In what sense then did you "pocket" PB?

[Krazy]

I think she was less sure of that than she was during our early interaction, and so I don't think she targets me without a late day crumb to reconfirm that.

Like, OK, I can understand this, but your reaction to this push still bothers me. I feel like you went very hard into arguing that she would therefore hide behind a townread and was wrong, or someone she had doubts on but definitely never crumbed, and I feel like you're making that leap to move the conversation away from the simplest scenario, which is that Ank died hiding behind her strongest living scumread (i.e. you).

I feel like you want to move the conversation away from pops in a way that maybe spews pops town, because you don't want pops to get lynched as a green flip there would at that point doom your slot. Like, that's highly speculative, but arguing that we shouldn't be thinking Ank hit a guilty at all is pretty much exactly what I'd expect someone who thinks they have a guilty on them to be arguing.

[Krazy]

Saying you're doing what I think you'd be doing as scum is a "deflection"?

And you're saying you don't think I've successfully made a case that she hid behind scum -- but you have it backward. Hiding behind a townread is the harder to defend position, because it means that if she is wrong and dies behind someone she townread then town may risk thinking the person she was scumreading is who she hid behind, and thus not only would she die but she would be providing town with *anti* information. This is precisely why, despite people saying "oh yeah I'd hide behind town" I think aren't thinking it through all the way. The *default* for weak hider is to hide behind scum reads and to match your checks to your reads precisely because otherwise you are fucking town if you are wrong on your townreads. So it's you who needs to defend the position that she would *not* hide behind her top scumread, when that is in my mind almost the objectively suboptimal play

[Krazy]

What context are you thinking of?

[Krazy]

Okay, I'm just going to go into this now because this shit is very relevant to my alignment.

I mean rereading it again makes me think even more that this is setup for a crumb, especially given the callout to you at the end of the post

in terms of what else was going on, she didn't need to defend her alignment at that point given she was at l-0. there was like some very minor pushes on her earlier, a passing vote from you, but nothing really substantial. the post stands out even more looking at it in context tbh

[Krazy]

Fuck

All things aside Mena, this is a quality pagetop

[Krazy]

There's some points by Ari I'm thinking about. Can anyone who was in starry night nutshell why ank danced with maria?

[Krazy]

??

The last time I played with Dann, he mislynched me as town based off of a misinterpreted hider guilty.

Yeah undertale has come up a few times this game. Do you think the takeaway of undertale was that town should ignore hider deaths if there is plausible debate over crumbs?

[Krazy]

undertale was a special case in stupidity

I think this game is much fuzzier than Undertale though

I know things are fuzzier here but I don't think that means we ignore it or that the people who have pushed to ignore it (or ignored it in practical terms) are town

I do recognize there's a chance some people want me to shut up about it. To be honest there's a chance I want to flex here given I was dead during the crumb debate in undertale so I think it's more fun trying to prove I could find the real crumbs here lol

Might sound dumb but debating crumbs feels like the first time I've had fun in mafia in a while, but I get some people might be kinda over this dayphase

[Krazy]

I mean the lesson from Undertale was "don't assume hiders targeted their strongest scumread because that's idiotic."

I'd assume that if Ank had any occurrences of "hide" in her ISO you guys would know by now. That was the crumb in Undertale and everyone ignored it because loltheytunneledS_S.

Hmm while this may be a fair point, for people who were dead during the debate (i.e. ank) do you think ita possible yo have the opposite takeaway? I.e. that if you are hider, town will just assume you targeted your top scumread if you died therefore you should just do that? Like I looked at that and thought it was more dunnteam's issue of not playing to town expectations. Although I'm honestly not 100% that's how ank viewed it too

[Krazy]

My playstyle is basically the scientific method; start with the conclusion and test it until I either disprove it or reach a point where I won't be able to anymore and need to confirm it completely via flips to continue

The goal isn't to lynch scum every day but to give myself enough information to properly narrow down who CAN be scum to put town in an unloseable situation

This is exactly how I played starry night

As I say, I quoted this one for 2 reasons. First was that I thought maybe Starty Night might have been a crumb. I checked and found nk shenanigans in that game so threw it out.
0/10

The second is what I meant earlier with the xof reasoning. Ank knows how to play and wasn't gunning for scum with this shot! They were aiming to "properly narrow down who can be scum" and got unlucky. Picking a dead null slot is a really good place to start on that front as town and scumreads both present problems, like death and redundancy. Picking xof makes so much sense and it is explained to us right here why they did so! Scientific method ftw!

Ank said she wanted to set up town to win Starry Night, then die, because she thought getting paranoia mislynched was inevitable. MariaR was a good partner for that because she wouldn't be as flighty as, like, Creature ended up being, and probably jammed with her some in the PT, I believe that was part of it. MariaR would increase the chances of getting paranoia mislynched but that wouldn't matter with regards to the strategy she was planning to follow.

I have no idea where you're going with this question but there you go. MariaR understood her reasons in the first instance and remembered them better, I'm sure.

Well I'm thinking about 1083 and how Ari chose to interpret 1083. My first thought was that 1083 has some things that could maybe go either way. But Ari seems to think 1083 is basically a slam dunk for it not being Mena --

This is extremely misguided and I've already said why.

Like "extremely misguided" is interesting language mostly because I've never seen Ari be this feisty before. Like, he feels a bit different here than Story Revisited, but that was long enough ago that maybe his playstyle changed. But this also is the second time Ari has started really pushing back against someone I scumread this game so I'm cautious.

In any case, what I don't get is why if Ari thinks 1083 was a kind of crumb then why would he write off Starry Night? Like if you think 1083 is a crumb, why would you write off what happened in the game? Like, Ank danced with Maria. If nothing else, given the whole point of Ari's 3783 is to assess every possible crumb target. So if Ari is going to make the point that 1083 is a crumb, direct or indirect, why would he not conclude that it was Maria, who Ank danced with in Starry Night? I'm not saying I think that's what happened, I'm just saying Ari's argument is kinda sketch in looking at 1083 and then going to "Ank wasn't gunning for scum!" without really thinking about Starry Night beyond a superficial level.

Basically I think Ari's argument here is, in terms of its content, kinda scummy. But the way he's saying it (kinda passive aggressive and outspoken) doesn't really gel with my recollection of how he plays scum. So either he's like, really certain in a very shaky hypothesis and being kinda aggressive in that certainty as town, or he's kinda open wolfing, and I'm trying to decide which.

[Krazy]

I have never.
Ever.
So much as once.
In any fucking game.
Faked rage.

I believe this but part of me wishes that more of your rage was faked

Feel like you should do yoga mastina-chan

[Krazy]

ftr Krazy you do know it's mechanically confirmed that Ank did not hide with MariaR right?

I mean, to you it is, but even if Ari believes your watch results I still don't see why he wouldn't take a look at Starry Night and at least think about what it means that she danced with Maria. Again, I'm not saying I think Ank checked Maria, I'm trying to figure out why Ari would go into 1083 specifically looking for crumbs and *not* come up with Maria lol. Like if he was just ruling it out because of your check then I would presume he would have said so because that's a deeper thought process than just ignoring how the dance works

[Krazy]

Are you feeling better fire?

[Krazy]

I mean Alisae whatever you wanna do in your own time man, no hate on the kinks, I do encourage you to clean up afterwards tho with lots of soap

[Krazy]

If I roleblock Pine, does he revert to being deciduous?

[Krazy]

You should spite him by getting your board game funded on kickstarter

[Krazy]

Like, you think people would take fucking showers in college

You could probably ask the professor to ask the student to shower before class without identifying you

[Krazy]

You should get modkilled for implying a movie adaptation of a musical is on the same plane as a live performance of said musical

I mean, obviously the movie version of Cats will be vastly superior to the musical

*ducks*

[Krazy]

It has Rebel Wilson, Taylor Swift, AND SIR IAN MCKELLEN!!! Like damn! If that isn't the most unexpected trio ever I don't know what is! XD

Yeah the concern I think is not about the performers so much as it is about how awful the CGI looks

[Krazy]

Ali what's up?

[Krazy]

I am fucking miserable my guy
How about you

I'm pissed at TFT rn but other than that doing good, actually got a brief window of productivity in yesterday before caving in today to apathy and laziness.

Still need to be doing more but at least I'm not totally shutting down.

A little worried about you though. Is there someone irl you can talk to rn? I would ask if you want to league but I think you were on earlier so I'm guessing it's not helping

[Krazy]

I don’t have anyone rl to talk to sadly

Should I get on discord or something? I'm not even sure I'm much of a conversationalist but I could listen if you want to vent

[Krazy]

Ari

[Krazy]

Spoiler:

this role doesn't make a lick of sense as scum and it's gross. I'm town, Keith. I know you lynch scum and don't argue but I'm ending this shit here. Reevaluate based on the fact I'm town, or don't and perma tunnel me I guess, but this is conclusive proof in my mind.

So what you're saying is that you're a bulletproof ascetic. Could scum get a bulletproof ascetic?

Hmmm.

I dunno.

Wait yes I do know, that's a great scum claim

WHO THE FUCK GIVES SCUM A BULLETPROOF ASCETIC IN A POWER MADNESS GAME BASED ON DRAFTING?!

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU

WHAT IS YOUR MALFUNCTION. THIS IS LIKE EX-POSTFACTO GOING BACK TRYING TO JUSTIFY ANYTHING YOU CAN TO KEEP CALLIN} ME SCUM

Um, no. That's actually a very fair scum role.

In general, scum Godfather > Scum Ascetic, because Godfather will give false results and appear town, while Ascetic will give no result (and is often considered basically a miller claim). Ascetic has some advantages - can't be jailkept, roleblocked, etc. but is in general slightly worse than a godfather.

Then we add in bulletproof. Is bulletproof godfather really that far out? Nah. I've seen bulletproof godfathers, hell, I've been a bulletproof godfather in a MOI game. And that's assuming you're not fakeclaiming like Ascetic to Commuter.

On top of that scum commuter adds interesting tension as you almost certainly can't night kill the night you commute.

For anyone with doubts on LLD:

She just claimed to be immune to investigation and immune to the scum night kill. She will never die and power roles will never sort her, according to her own claim. This isn't a problem you get to kick down the road. Decide. Here and now.

It's actually not a lie because I've never promised to post a vote and leave the thread before. I've promised to lynch myself and then talked people out of it. How am I gonna get out of it when I can't talk or I'll die lol

I really don't care to get into the weeds of past games and the various promises made.
Or the fact you are literally recycling the "my husband made me cry" tactic from the Dead of Winter game where you were a traitor
Because I know you're scum
You know I know you're scum
This is just playing to the crowd, who hasn't been there, and hasn't seen it, and don't know that this is exactly the scum pattern

And I'm playing to them too. I will carry water as long as I need to to see this happen.

You really think this is plausibly bus material?

[Krazy]

I'm curious why you seem to be thinking I'm "miserable" this game

[Krazy]

Actually wait hold on

I'm starting to feel a little bit inspired

[Krazy]

VOTE: mastina

[Krazy]

Pine actually considered not inviting you but I told him that he should because games are meant to be played with friends.

what?

why would you say this 0.o

[Krazy]

Aww :3

That sentence read really awkwardly but I think I know what you meant now

[Krazy]

Anyway, I was thinking mastina is town. And she still might be town actually. But given I've basically retired from this site precisely because literally everyone on this site seems unable to go a game without getting into interpersonal drama that goes beyond the game (myself included), I'm kinda over just letting mastina try to read me based on whether I'm "miserable" or not. She knows I was miserable in pretty much every game I've played on this site in the last few months regardless of alignment. And realistically, yeah, I joined this game because Ank was going to play and now she's dead. But I'm not going to dwell on that, even if I think the fact that we're ignoring her most likely check is nonsense. But apparently everyone has decided to townread Mena and with a bunch of other scum I have to imagine that some of them are just trying to keep the pressure off him.

I thought mastina's early play was townie because she's right. She definitely lurks more as scum. It feels exhausting getting anything from her. She has other things going on in her life, and when she's scum, those other things are more frequently a bigger priority. And I felt like she was more willing to engage with this game.

But now I'm like, looking at her play, and her reads are just... not good enough to be town mastina. I don't know how else to put it but

I am quite dead serious about my jjh/Aristophanes scumreads; I am sure AT LEAST one of them is scum, quite possibly both.

Aristophanes is still scum; jjh is still scum. But Krazy went from probably scum to just definitely scum.

I'm looking at the bottom tier of her scumreads and I'm seeing a bunch of flipped town and myself. While mastina was hilariously wrong on me for all of EICN, that doesn't mean she wouldn't try to mislynch me as scum and while her reads can be near rand on a bad day, usually they're at least okay and these are seeming below okay for her.

If anything this is reminding me a lot now of Story Revisited; her whole thing as scum is she tries to push people but not in a way that they are lynched very quickly. Ari getting flipped so quickly was not her plan for today so --she wasn't planning to look bad today-- and now she's trying to move down her list of bad lynches to me. In Story Revisited she did bus a lot, but I think she also maybe got a sense that bussing that heavily didn't really work and didn't actually set up her team for the win she wanted.

So it's plausible she's scum, but it's also possible she's town. The funny thing is that given she's decided to start making pushes on me based on whether or not I'm enjoying the game, I'm okay with her getting lynched if that's how she's going to start playing and treating my slot. I can see why she would *think* she can make this argument, given we dropped out of a hydra together because I got annoyed at her flaking as scum. But it's a pretty dumb argument given she's also saw me quit the site at the end of Jingle's shitstorm Vengeful Ghosts. So either mastina is scum, or she needs to basically reinvent how she reads me and I'm kinda done dealing with her after how lazily she tunneled me in EICN.

[Krazy]

Anyway, tl;dr:

Right now I'm feeling good about this game. And right now I believe we can lynch Mastina. Together!

[Krazy]

Right now it feels like that's the conclusion she reached because that's the order she decided to put names in in her reads list and now that Ari and jjh are dead she feels compelled to continue going up the list regardless of anything else that happens in the game. Which is basically how I felt about her in Story Revisited.

[Krazy]

but
wait
isn't this something that mastina does all of the time?

Sometimes it feels that way, but when she's town she also tends to just voluntarily produce these unreadable volumes about her thought process. Like, I know you noped out of Tatsuya's anime game, but I feel like I got her to reevaluate several points there, and she was also pretty keenly reactive to the gamestate. She tends to be pretty ridiculous about her lists one way or the other, but she IS reactive as town in a way she kinda isn't as scum

[Krazy]

Spoiler:

Subject: Anime U-Pick: King Size [SEASON FINALE...?]

Do you have a lot of familiarity with robert? You've kinda moved him into your lower tier poe but I don't really see you talking about your scumread of him independently. Why is robert scum?

I don't have much experience with him, only a single game.

He's not really a scumread in the conventional sense; I actually already explained why he's one:
He fits in the gaps, in the zone which usually has a scum or two. Someone slipping under the radar, who doesn't attract attention. Not strongly present, scumread, or townread; just…kinda THERE.

Initially, Robert was nulltown; I loosely thought his contributions might be in line with my prior game with him. However, when you pair the above reasoning with the passage of time (he no longer looks like he's in line with said prior game; there's too little content, because he gave way more by this point), it sticks out.

He's not a major scumread, because these reasonings are both weak. Maybe not matching a single town game? Being a scumread because of being neither a scumread nor a townread? Weak reasons, even in tandem. But that's where the read is coming from.

In short, poe plus weak meta.

Subject: Anime U-Pick: King Size [SEASON FINALE...?]

someone with more experience with her tell me if mastina always makes empty meaningless statements like this

It's a scumtell of mine not to.

I stopped understanding the game since Mastina started voting Morality
help

Remember when I said, in regards to Pink Ball, that just because a point is good does not mean the point is right? How in spite of how good my points were against him, that they were wrong because he was actually town?

This metric applies for my POE pool.

I hold to my POE pool being correct.

I also hold to my original POE pool having good points.

I just don't think that the points which I originally thought were right, actually are, RE: Reasonably Psychotic, Near x Mello.

And yet I do think my points are right, RE: Toogeloo, Morality, Robert.

Near x Mello, I made many good points for why they'd be scum--but these points are neutered by one critical point; who is their scumteam? They don't match with any of the names inside the POE pool. Heck, even outside of the POE pool, common names people want to put inside of it they don't match with, either. They're not scumbuddies with Elena given those two slots' interactions. Would they be scum with Gamma? Haven't investigated that, but who'd be the final scum in that team, hypothetically?

I simply can't place them in a scumteam--and because of that, that's fairly compelling evidence that my points for them being scum are wrong. Obviously, it is possible that I am missing a scumteam that works, that they are scum and I simply don't see their scumteam because it is that well masked or I am that blind interactions-wise. So they are still in the POE for that reason. But realistically, if I voted them I'd be expecting them to not flip scum right now, making them a bad vote.

Reasonably Psychotic is in a sense a backup scum candidate. I made many good points for why they'd be scum, and these points don't really have much of a neuter to them. However, my current solve involves Toogeloo being scum (you saw me give reasons for this in the neighborhood and the only reason I'm not publicly stating said reasons is because Toogeloo is set to die tonight and thus bringing them to the main thread's a distraction we don't need right now) and indicates that Reasonably Psychotic is less likely to be his scumbuddy.

They are still possible scum and if desperate I'd vote them; I'd vote them way, way, WAY before I'd vote Near x Mello (who I'd be willing to vote if desperately needing to avert a lynch on a townread), but while they could be scum, the odds of my points being right feel lower. This is largely, yes, I admit, based on the POE pool combined with interactions such as VCA; the scum voting patterns don't quite match Cerb's modus operandi if he were scum. They COULD match, depending on exact scumteam membership, but balance of probabilities weakly favors this not being him as a scum mastermind.

Toogeloo has VERY strong reasons for being scum and I strongly feel they are right, but due to his claimed role, he gets a one-day pass.
Morality has VERY strong reasons for being scum and I strongly feel that they are right--and more than that, because he is a high-profile player, his flip regardless of scum or town gives us a shitload of information. This, aside from the fact that he is almost certainly the scum mastermind of this game since the confirmed AND suspected scum's interactions match his modus operandi, meaning depriving them of their heavy-hitter and best scum member would be an almost instant town win.

Robert has only some weak reasons for being scum; I feel they are right, but they're weak. I laid them out before; it's a combination of him being in the lurker zone, of him providing more content as town so weak burden-of-proficiency, of him basically being poe-scum. He is a low-profile player, and regardless of a scumflip or a townflip his flip gives us next-to-zero information to work off of. If he's scum as I suspect, it does deprive the scum of an additional member and make them slightly more desperate, but it doesn't trigger an auto-loss for them, not even if he's their strongest scum role.

There's also the fact that Robert is probably being replaced soon--him not having given much (half the reason I think he's scum) could be null due to real life stuff interfering, so my hope is that a replacement comes in and the replacement gives us a much better read on the slot. There's almost nobody who could replace in without me being fully confident I'd be able to read them and clear the slot up; give final proof that it's a scum slot, or give evidence that the read was wrong. And regardless of which, said replacement would give us more info.

So while I'm not against a Robert lynch, it's not ideal.
While I'm not going to fight a Reasonably Psychotic lynch, it's a desperation lynch.
While I'm not going to argue strongly against a Near x Mello lynch, it's a lynch of absolute last resort.
I'd rather play sub-optimally and just lynch Toogeloo today rather than test him tonight, than lynch either Reasonably Psychotic or Near x Mello.
But my preference would be Morality > Robert > Toogeloo > Reasonably Psychotic > Near x Mello > Literally Any Other Player In The Game.

If there were any actual cases against me, I’d happily tear them down

There IS an actual case. I'm just having trouble finding my words for it.

I think I got to get a sense of town mastina through her rob read. Not because she moved a scum player from null to scum over the course of two day phases, but because I actually felt like she was engaging with my questions about her read and because I felt like I could actually understand her thought process.

Now it is the case that mastina can be kinda mechanical. She was also obnoxiously aloof in EICN. But I feel like she seemed really busy during EICN and basically read none of the game in a way that I don't get from her here. So she can have superficial thought processes as town, but generally her thought process is significantly more fluid as town than as scum.

[Krazy]

I'd actually agreed with mastina's stance until D2 started

Why?

[Krazy]

The bare minimum, because Krazy hated that game.

what the fuck?

[Krazy]

Imagine the amount of effort it took to put together that wall exactly 0% of which actually went into engaging me ever throughout this game

[Krazy]

Why I agreed or why I changed my mind?

Both actually

[Krazy]

I agreed because you didn't seem really engaged in the game and you seemed to be reflexively FoSing those who pushed you. I changed my mind because I felt like a fresh start was a good idea

I mean, I didn't actually plan to play this game at all, I had planned on a much longer break from the site. But hey, given I apparently have enthusiasm quotas for games I'm invited to the reason I literally always stealth alt gets more and more justified every time I play a game on my main.

[Krazy]

What if I said that if I were to actually give a guess as to who she hid behind my guess would be you?

LOL wow

you are scum

[Krazy]

What if I said that if I were to actually give a guess as to who she hid behind my guess would be you?

[Krazy]

the source of my scumread on him from that game

the source of your scumread me that game was that you obviously were reading exactly 0% of that game and giving 0% shits about that game and were basically just pulling reads out of your ass, which is why I felt okay basically ignoring you for the vast majority of the game

here you feel like you are desperately pulling reads out of your ass but you want to at least give the impression you're invested

[Krazy]

Because as town you actually think instead of writing whiny wallposts for the sake of writing whiny wallposts

[Krazy]

So jjh was killed for his day 1 reads. The same thing LLD chainsawed. Fire and Krazy.

Scumleans

DrippingGoofball

Menalque

Krazy

Scumreads

xofelf
Aristophanes

I mean, it looks to me like jjh was killed for having shitty reads

The only possible scum he had in his bottom 5 was Mena, who he does not mention at all on page 2 of his iso

[Krazy]

Those are Fire and Krazy.

You make this point twice but don't bother to check that his read flipped on Fire before the end of page 1 of his iso?

[Krazy]

Pretending I haven't engaged players who have questioned my reads and explained my thought process

I've seen you throw a lot of tantrums but explaining your thought process? honestly not so much

[Krazy]

argue that jjh was killed because shitty reads is disingenuous.

as opposed to saying he was killed because of his "scumread" on firebringer?

[Krazy]

Jjh was captured by that point.

What does this mean?

[Krazy]

Alisae, mastina making a good list is why I was wrong on her for the vast majority of Story Revisited.

Mastina's favorite thing to do as scum is to make lists that look good.

I refuse to believe town mastina ever writes 6364. She knows Ank too well to think Ank ever fucking investigates me night 1. Like yeah, mastina being wrong on me is not new, but mastina spreading disinformation about Ank is just no. I don't know what it says about Mena, maybe she's spewing him town or something and I was wrong there, but that line is not a thought that passes through town mastina's mind.

Everything else can come from wrong-mastina, yes, but I really don't think that does.

[Krazy]

@mastina, Krazy

What are your reads on kat?

I had good vibes day 1 but they've been kinda absent since then. I don't remember a dropoff in play like this in EICN. But I do like the mastina vote

[Krazy]

like
I think she has a valid point there

idk I kinda agree with 6213

mastina basically started this game saying I'm an unlikely pick for Pine:

^So my thoughts on Krazy can be summed up as: If Pine picked Krazy to be scum, it would be a dick move. Pine would know from experience that Krazy is burned out from playing scum and wouldn't have much fun in the role. Pine would know that while Krazy is an amazing town player, he's only so-so as a scum player.

and then has spent the entire rest of the game arguing she's a terrible pick for pine for [reasons] and that somehow, after Vengeful Ghosts, there's a chance in fucking hell Pine picks me

[Krazy]

It's not that I am a bad pick for Pine in general.

It's that IN THIS SPECIFIC GAME. I am a bad pick for Pine GIVEN WHAT FACTORS ARE IN PLAY.
This is the heart and core. The ESSENCE. Of why to focus on what Pine DID and DIDN'T do, rather than what Pine COULD do.
Pine could pick me, because of my strength as a scum player.
Pine didn't pick me, because IN THIS SPECIFIC GAME, my weaknesses as a scum player would outweigh those strengths.

Like mastina thinks that this means Pine doesn't pick her, but somehow she's willing to put in the mental fucking gymnastics necessary for Pine to pick me after the game where I pretty much exclusively led mislynches?

"but you put in EFFORT in VENGEFUL GHOSTS"

Like that's what I don't fucking get, mastina was in that game and knows that I literally left the site because of how fucking stupid that game was but SOMEHOW she a) thinks Pine picks me after that shitshow and b) thinks that I don't step back slightly after literally quitting the site?

I don't think mastina planned to actually push me today but she feels she needs 'someone' to rail on but there's no fucking way she makes the arguments she's made today in good faith

[Krazy]

If mastina flips town
How do you view pink ball’s posts?

I'd have to reread if that were to happen.

[Krazy]

The difference isn't semantics; it's critical and vital.

[Krazy]

you don’t need to reread to look at those Pink Ball posts and go “wow, mastina flipped town? In that case, these are some really bad posts”
Because if mastina flipped town
Those are some really bad posts

I don't know what you want me to say here Alisae but no those posts don't really jump out at me, PB isn't really a strong townread for me but I feel like I see where PB is coming from with those two posts actually. Maybe I'm biased given mastina is obviously fucking scum this game

[Krazy]

Alisae I don't know what to say but if you choke on mastina here you're making a mistake. Now I have some quality vidja game time I gotta get in before I crash. Good night

[Krazy]

Honestly
I’m convinced I’m part of the problem when it comes to that
But not
THE problem.

Because sometimes I am waking up to 10-20 pages sometimes as well.
I just don’t complain about it because 10-20 pages is very easy for me to read.

Jingle would need to actually geriatric the game then. The problem is people are now apparently enforcing enthusiasm quotas so how the fuck is anyone supposed to hold back?

Personally, I don't mind a lot of pages, I just don't like a lot of pages of people starting shit with each other.

I think it's been mostly scum trying to do that (though not Pine, which is good, because a lot of people in Pine's spot would just be toxic and try to demoralize town).

Who do you mean here?

Mastina townreads all my scumreads so either she's scum or

Let me stop you right there

Interestingly I've kinda been wondering why I have so little feelings about Krazzy and then I went looking for his classic scum saltyposting (you can always tell he isn't quite as happy as usual to be here!!) and kinda wondered if he's just having fun because the scumteam is a bbbbblast. idk. need to actually read his ISO later.

pedit: can we keep in mind it's a heavily biased rubric :<

What is this "saltyposting" you are imagining? I remember... very little salt from schadd's normal.

[Krazy]

Oh no oh fuck mastina isn't townreading me anymore guys what do I do.

Misrep my ass, mastina, you're being hypocritical with your reads because you "know your alignment". The way you're dealing with the duck reminds me of that schadd's game where we mislynched him om D1 because of you. And funny, the worst reminds me of that game too, so he's town, and you're scum. Next.

Oh and Titus was waiting for the best moment to vote me 'cause I called her out for her vote I'm DGB. PEOPLE DON'T FORGET, YOUR VOTE WAS HORRENDOUS AND OPPORTUNISTIC AND YOU WILL BE JUDGED FOR IT.

Were you friends with DGB or what is going on here?

@ali Lynch mastina, if she flips town, tell the vig to shoot me. If you're going to build a fucking dichotomy between scum and me, so be it, I'm fucking tired of you calling me scum based on activity instead of my contributions.

I thought Ali was saying your vote on mastina was scummy? Did e mention activity earlier or something?

@duck you aknowledged that you have ignored my posts, so calling them entire fluff is bullshit. I've called town my townreads, I've voted flipped scum and didn't contribute to the wrong pushes on both DGB and Ari (who by the way, are we going to ignore the players who were oh so sure Ari was scum? Looking at you again Ali, fuck your reads), and I've played consistent with my towngames to AT LEAST not get mislynched even when I don't have enough time like I used to had. "Not impressed by Pink so far" my ass, I'm not a gold star player, I'm good at not getting mislynched and you're all fucking around because of my activity.

Duck and Ali, I'm calling you both out, stick your head out of your asses.

Is this a reference to a different duck post? What is going on with you this page, Pink Floof?

[Krazy]

That's a quality pagetop if I say so myself.

@ali ok I believe you, I don't see what's wrong with my push on mastina, maybe it was the timing. I'm town, hopefully I can help you realize that but for me it feels like you haven't really read my ISO and I'm doomed.

You have zero votes on you and your ISO stinks worse than your avatar shitting.

See I can shitpost too.

hi town Titus!

PB, who is scum?

????? Who are you??? Why do you interact with me now and not when I called you out for your gross vote?

For everyone, this is what Titus did: she repped in, saw the opportunity to never catch up with the game by voting an easy mislynch that would have no repercutions 'cause even DGB was voting herself, and now is chainsawing both mastina and herself by pushing my 'cause I'm scumreading both of them. That's all, that's Titus everyone.

wtf lol

VOTE: Pink Ball

I don't see what's wrong with my push on mastina

It's based on weird mastinastuff but it doesn't really distinguish whether it's town weird mastina or scum weird mastina.

Like it's mastina. Of course she's gonna push some weird angle that nobody else understands. Given that her angle destroys a lot of legitimate-looking arguments she could use to push mislynches, I don't really see why you're connecting it to scum-her.

1. It's based on who she is pushing and the way she's doing it. Instead of giving actual reads on her scumreads, she's going for the "this is a good pick for Pine" angle while she should be inmune to scumreads because "Pine wouldn't pick me" while "everyone is a good Pine pick". I do realize that she has a point on Krazy tho: mastina is being consistent on calling herself town and calling Krazy scum.

since when is town consistently making the exact same point over three hundred pages?

[Krazy]

But can you not see how town!me unsure of your slot from before would think that it could be scum!you frustrated at repping into a slot that was looking likely to get lynched regardless of what you were doing and trying to AtE your way out of it?

Convoluted thought process, dude. You're also justifying your own opportunism. Like, if you're town why not just admit that you were acting kinda scummy?

SS who else do you want me to look at?

Dancefloor?

Several people are hard townreading him and I do not get why

I've been kinda skeptical of Dann since he called me asking two questions about the obvious and distracting mech of the game "bullshit" when he literally put up with me railing on the coins in Merchant's Dance for like a hundred pages

[Krazy]

You're a good pick from his perspective

So I can clearly not choose the penguin in front of me!

But penguins come from Antarctica which, as everyone knows, is entirely populated by criminal seabirds! And as criminal seabirds are used to not having people trust them, I can clearly not choose the penguin in front of you!

It's really freaking me out seeing Mena deliberately try to be cute and I don't know what it's doing to my read lol

Because he wouldn't fucking dare to try to pocket me while I was doing the appreciation page, I don't expect a player like Dann to do something so machiavellian

Why are you dropping so many f-bombs today? Are you post-restricted to a certain number of "fuck" quotas?

Mastina's a lot more self-righteous as town. Like as either alignment she'll argue how absolutely. completely. ridiculous. it is that anyone could possibly scumread her, but when she's town she focuses less on reasons and more on the fact that her towniness ought to be self-evident. That and the bodyguard claim doesn't strike me as a scum mastina fakeclaim.

I'm trying to remember but were you in Story Revisited or read that game? I feel like that game cycled through almost the entire site in replacements but it was long enough now I'd have to actually check

[Krazy]

Let me finish catchup

[Krazy]

Given that Ali was, at the time, the only person who was conf!town to me, it seems odd to then go against her wishes before we discussed it as a group. I think maybe you're reading the tone here as odd, but I think I very often post things that are overconfident in terms of reads in the heat the heat of the moment when I'm reacting to something.

Being overtly anti-town is not scummy, except in cases where you're clearly acting with no regard to the town wincon. Both town and scum are well aware of how such an action will be perceived and choosing it anyway weighs out the superficial harm it brings to town.

I was gonna say what S_S said here but then S_S said it so I guess +1

I don't. Fireb is town

What's your readrate on Fire this year?

Incidentally, this is the same reason that I think that lolhammers on town should nearly always be lynched the next day. If you don't do it, then scum can get away with doing it because it becomes something to just be shrugged off/tolerated.

While I agree in principle that N_M and Boon should be lynched every game, I feel like it's really weird that you're making this argument

I will say that the deal that PP has made with pine is one of the best things to happen to this thread in spite of it being anti-town though.

You say so much stuff that sounds so weird coming from you but then you do posts like this that are like... hmmm yeah

[Krazy]

Alisae is not God.

[Krazy]

That pagetop though

[Krazy]

Titus I really don't want to be rude, but it seems like you're trying to push my buttons.

Why is asking for an updated read pushing your buttons?

VOTE: Pink Ball

I think Titus was right here.

Mastina vs. Krazy is reading TvT today imo

I'm sorry but why is mastina town?

I'd still lynch Krazy over Mastina, but their interactions today town ping me for both of them.

I'm not really convinced my pops' scum slip case.

Again, why?

[Krazy]

Could he let me know if you make an anti-town outing of your role on D2's just to reduce your lynch equity as town? Because that's a lot of my problem with your slot.

Like, it's entirely plausible she's a scum doctor given the game has a vig, especially if the scum is informed there's a town gunsmith.

Functionally right now:
-There's no reason for a town roleblocker to roleblock her since she is obligated to protect someone via a leash, vis-a-vis she can freely perform nightkills
-There's no reason for a vig to shoot her since he risks killing a town protective
-And apparently everyone has decided she can't get lynched

So basically while people are insisting she gets resolved by night actions, they are guaranteeing she never ever gets resolved by night actions

As anyone can observe, she tells things similar to the truth as scum but skews them, like claiming vig as serial killer etc.

I can't believe you'd ever see this as Rogue One mastina

What if it's not rogue one mastina but she's still scum?

I know this is a lukewarm take but I don't really support a Mastina lynch at all anymore

why?

The realm where Krazy is comfortable just hanging around and about as scum.

Yeah except this is the opposite of the truth and you know it

I actually barely discuss mechanics as scum, in fact I think that's one of my bigger weaknesses

And you know this given we dropped out of a game where we never actually got anything resembling a grip on the mech of the setup

So YOU in particular should know that I don't even investigate or discuss mech as scum

And yet somehow YOU are the one making this argument

So it's not just that what you're saying is wrong and complete bullshit, it's that the entire premise behind what you're saying is also incredibly unlikely to come from you about me specifically if you are playing in good faith

Because Krazy here is unrivaled in experience with me aside from Ankamius and he fucking knows that this is my towngame.

I thought you might be town and playing like shit like you did in EICN and my main thought was to let it go until you moved up your list mechanically after the Ari shot with 0 reassessment and 0 actual engagement with me.

"BLAH BLAH BLAH IN EICN I THOUGHT YOU WERE THE OTHER HEAD"

You keep using that as a whiny piece of shit defense Mastina and you of all people maybe would have recognized that if you're going to fucking scumread me MAYBE you should talk TO me first rather than at me given how AWFUL you read was that game, which YOU YOURSELF admit

So if your read is so fucking awful on me when we're both town, why would you continue to HIDE behind your shitty reads rather than getting better at reading me?

Krazy can't defend himself by calling himself town.

I'm town.

And you're scum.

Given you know this is my last game on site, there's no fucking way you would be blowing your last game on me with a shit tunnel unless you were scum.

Why did his narrative recently change on that subject to saying that in EICN I wasn't playing the game at all and was lazily scumreading him?

That's not changing my narrative, that's observing reality. If you weren't playing lazily and badly in EICN, you would have engaged me enough to figure out which head I was. Saying "I didn't know which head he was" doesn't deny my point, it IS my point

It was also where I noticed Krazy's overly strong focus on mechanics.

Which if you've ever played with me you'd know basically exclusively fucking comes from my towngame

think one of krazy and mastina is scum. I feel good about my pool

So vote mastina

[Krazy]

What is this "saltyposting" you are imagining? I remember... very little salt from schadd's normal.

that's one without salt yeah
you also didn't post much in that one!

nice summary of my entire scum meta

[Krazy]

You know what, I'll do a 360° and say I agree with mastina.

VOTE: Krazy

what.

[Krazy]

if we lynch Krazy today and he flips town, I will give you my vote wherever tmo. Your vote must be on Krazy to accept.

Titus you're pretty clearly town so I'd appreciate it if you'd stop haggling for my death thanks

You have a corkscrew d**k, nothing is obvious about you, duck

WTF?

I have never had a scumgame even remotely close to this one in any way shape or form.

You're posting more than Story Revisited but it's the closest I've seen. In a world where you're town here, holy fucking shit mastina, play better

[Krazy]

this game is too large

like I agree with this but *what did you mean* by this?

twinkle twinkle alisae
can't we just lynch firebae

i forgot the rest.

why fire?

chennisden is in his town lazy game. Literally seen this story play out before, don't feel like arguing any nuance to it.
T

what is chenni's lazy town game? Are you thinking of something in particular? I'd describe his townplay usually as like... a bit manic? But I think I only have a few games with him

VOTE: chennis my most confident lynch atm but will probably have to change at the behest of fire

why would you change at the behest of fire?

Let's get
KRAZY KRAZY KRAZY WHEN WE HIT THE SCUM

where is this even coming from?

***

I don't know what to do with these mastina/PB walls I might have to thunk them later after some vidja gaem meditations. Like mastina will bitch but is theater actually plausible? or what is going on with PB?

[Krazy]

Mastina isn't lynched yet I see. What a shame. I guess I need to move on

1) Her claim is a lie
2) You're doing that thing you do Titus. I get you're town but don't let your judgment be clouded by dumb stuff like that.

sup it's town Maria

woah titus made a good point.

fine if SS dies while mastina is alive, we kill her.
Fine we can move onto someone else.

this is a terrible plan

[Krazy]

I should probably just stick to my gut on Krazy

VOTE: Krazy

VOTE: krazzy

Krazy needs a permanent time out because we think he's been a bad boy.

I love it when you talk dirty Titus

UNVOTE: Krazy

This day was exhausting, I'm not having fun anymore. Sorry.

what

the

fuck?

I'm so confused by literally everything you have done today Pink Floof

[Krazy]

Krazy dying is fine I suppose? He's not obv town and the flip gives information. I'm good with it

You say this in a lot of games but, you know maria, you never actually do anything with the information... usually you just implode or get lynched after doing a bunch of scummy and opportunistic informational votes

you're still town but maybe reflect on your method one of these days?

Krazy dying is fine I suppose? He's not obv town and the flip gives information. I'm good with it

uhhhh I need to reread Maria?

weirdly fencesitty post for her and not a good look especially if Krazy flips town here

okay

so if maria's vote is scummy FYPOV why are you not unvoting me here?

[Krazy]

I'm learning to alt-hunt Krazy. This is so exciting.

Hey didn't I already tell you about that alt?

Krazy do you think Menalque is a likely scum target and likely scum?

What do you mean by "likely scum target"?

I'd say my read on him feels pretty fucked right now. As has been the case through the whole game, his tone seems radically different than when he was scum. My main concerns with his slot still have to do with the fact that he simply is the most logical Ank target. Outside of Ank-spec, I honestly would lean town. There's also something else I don't want to get into rn that had me kinda doubting my read on him.

krazzy. if you can't work out why i want to lynch fire i'm sad.

I just wanted to hear you say it really, I basically feel like I know but I want to address the point

[Krazy]

Ico what's your approximate level of caught-up or not-caught-up-ness? I kinda want to ask you for a reads list but I have no idea how much of the game you've actually processed

[Krazy]

Krazy speculating scum doctor also doesn't sit well with me.

She doesn't have to be scum doctor. But she claimed protective, and mastina's claims usually have some vestige of truth. Like she has some sort of visiting night action that will not result in a kill. She wants someone to claim an investigative result on her in games where she's scum; in fact that was a major point in story revisited. Generally her claims, as scum, have some level of truth but nonetheless advance her agenda or push the game toward the gamestate she wants. Scum doctor would be the most elegant explanation, but I'm just assuming she really is some sort of trackable visiting role. So if she's scum, a protective, and the scumteam knows there's a gunsmith, then that largely would fit into her agenda and the way she plays scum power.

[Krazy]

miller

?

[Krazy]

Conftown is just not a word thats used in the way pops used it is really questionable

like you've played with nancy right?

[Krazy]

Er, Firebringer.

That's an interesting argument because I feel like as scum Fire doesn't usually overtly try to demoralize the town, but his play here is just... really weird ngl

No. What was interesting about it?

Well that's my main experience with scum mastina and while it was a while ago now I recall a fair amount of self-meta manipulation (in addition to an overall strategy of demoralization)

Fifth, no one is biting on my attempts to counter wagon mastina.

@Ali seems more like scum are closing ranks.

Titus, I think you're town, but your play around mastina is like... really weird. You seem to want to build your entire game around people's reads of mastina... but in doing so you're pre-flipping her as town. Why? Like have a read, sure, but talking about "camps" in the game based on mastina is weird when she and her counter-wagons are all sitting at like l-7 or l-8.

I think we should just ignore the governor, and if Fire uses it we just lynch him the next day.

Yeah pretty much

Pops MariaR Krazy Fire PB your thoughts please?

I have no idea why you and Dann would for even a single minute let Firebringer hold the game hostage. His reads are irrelevant to where you vote, unless you're voting him.

Go ahead and waste two days

If RC started abusing day actions like this you would be bitching at him for days. Fire you should if nothing else recognize that trying to gate the available votes to your scumreads is a shitty and unfun thing to do so why don't you just stop swinging a governor around like suddenly you're a tryhard douche. "moon logic" has nothing to do with it

Also I made this deal with alisae like forty pages ago

And since when does one player making a deal with a town stump get to decide the day's lynch on their own?

The worst has quite literally wanted to lynch literally anything this day phase
I honestly think he’s just letting town self-destruct at this point
So lets just lynch him
VOTE: the worst

I'd feel better about this if the last time I voted someone you didn't immediately jump ship. Like if you let mastina go just because you're spooked of a PR claim, then all we're going to do is start rolefishing through votes. Like is this actually who you want lynched? I'll support you if this is 'the way' but at this point I'm kinda sick of being jerked around and feeling abandoned as soon as I support you in a push I agree with.

Guess who's getting a new kitten tomorrow~

Nice!

[Krazy]

I don't recall ever seeing him do something this egregious as town.

Excalibur and Merchant's Dance were both pretty awful

You are fucking moderator on this site and you are calling me a gamethrower and it’s not acceptable

I mean sometimes you take a dump all over town cohesion, and then have the gall to bitch at people for AtE

I can't be bothered, too many people I'm not townreading and too many posts to reevaluate. Too busy and reevaluating like 7 slots I'm not townreading at the 300 page mark is something I can't see myself doing. I'll lynch anyone I don't townread because I can't play this game at its current size.

Who are your 3?

I feel like this is a slightly townie sentiment but it's kinda getting old that you let people keep corralling you into me

hold on why the fuck would I choose 3 players when there's 6 scum this is fucking stupid

why do you want to make me look worse than I am? that's not a valuable sorting exercise for me => others or vice versa so genuinely curious.

She's asking for a structured reads list, that's not stupid... weird resistance

So what if 6 scum are alive? Are you saying you don't have 3 big scumreads at the moment? I doubt it. You don't need to solve the whole team on day 3 no one expects that of you.

Yea, this.

I want roasted duck tonight

I'm feeling pretty mixed on him, like the initial sentiment of "let's get on with it so the game is more manageable" is like, initially reasonable, but pushing back for an ask for top 3 is ???

ok alisae feel free to powerlynch another townie, just remember the scum governor tomorrow.

what is the point of this fearmongering?

Maria do you want me to break down who I won't lynch again? You'll get my PoE but I'm not going to scumcase.

This is starting to remind me of your inclination to constantly stall on minor bullshit as scum.

Yeah I think Fire might be town and pops might be wking.

?

[Krazy]

Firebringer - scum
MariaR - idrk you're not pushing a hard agenda which makes me think town but like for example our interaction just now doesn't make me go "wow towny mindset", it makes me think "wow busywork" and I'm becoming hard pressed to think of something I really like for town!Maria
Gamma Emerald - is just town
mastina - broke scumrange I'm pretty sure
chennisden - can die in a fire I don't give a shit about this
popsofctown - posts like a tonne without doing anything townie
Krazy - has big posts and opinions and is snarky but I don't really see him doing anything improbable or outside of his scumrange :<

fucking confusing feelings here

tone on chenni is like, a little more like town duck, but I really dislike pretty much all of these reads right now so I don't know what to do

Always; since when haven't they?

Like yeah, as town your reads can be relatively consistent, but as scum they feel very mechanically consistent particularly over the course of flips

this is not even remotely similar to ANY scumgame I've played

okay so you're expanding your scumrange

I mean this doesn't particularly look like your recent towngames either

you clearly have more time and energy invested into this game than in several of your recent games with me, and given you were town in those games I do legitimately have to wonder what's up with you. Things ease up at work or something?

I don't change my roleclaim as scum from one role to another.

fuck mastina, stop trying to fucking sell us that you're trust telling. First of all, that's complete bullshit. You're totally arbitrary and selective on which roles you deem scum roles. "Serial killer" is not a town role. You keep telling us that you see it as a town role to make it "not a role you lied about" but give me a fucking break. My first game with you, you claimed vig, you were SK. Hence you tend to claim similar shit to what you are, but you will definitely finesse the details if you see it as part of your wincon. Don't try to sell me that you trust tell. You don't. And it's gross that you keep trying to make this argument.

Then why have mechanics been one of the things I've most noted about your scumgames.

My current assumption is because you're scum and want to have a meta-based excuse to tunnel me. In Merchant's Dance people complained that, as town, I talked about mech so much that I was hiding behind it. In Excalibur people complained that, when I was town, I was talking about mech so much I was scum hiding behind it.

There was no "mech" to get a grip on, not really anyway.

We had very unusual scum roles but we talked about them very little other than "huh maybe pt cop or something" and then moved on. We didn't talk about mech in the game basically at all. You can say that we dropped out of the game for other reasons but that was a totally typical scum game for me.

I was neither lazy nor bad in EICN

You were both when it came to your read of me

I EXPLICITLY SAID I WAS KRAZY in post 3000

in post 4,200 -- OVER ONE THOUSAND POSTS LATER -- you still had me as your top scum read -- based on the meta of which head I was!

YOU WERE NOT

READING

THE GAME

You were not reading my iso. You were not reading my posts. But you kept scumreading me anyway, and you kept projecting confidence that you had been evaluating and analyzing the game in good-faith. That was super gross, and LAZY

Like yes that game was a clusterfuck, but maybe read the posts of the player you're claiming is scum off meta?

Like you keep saying you have a deep understanding of my meta, but people who bothered to interact with me figured out which head I was when they had like, one, or maybe two games with me figured out who I was. How the fuck did KATYUSHA figure out which head I was when I basically hadn't even played with Kat before that game and you not?

[Krazy]

my claims are pretty much almost exclusively 100% the truth.

"serial killer-->vig" and "disloyal gladiator-->loyal gladiator" are not "exclusively 100% the truth"

***

pops' case on chenni at end of 284 certainly has some effort. I might need to reread chenni in starcraft since this feels really different from both town chenni in that mini normal where I was with N_M and he was town and gay dance where he was scum

[Krazy]

She got in trouble for putting pencils between her fingers like Wolverines claws.

it's funny how kids can get in trouble for something like this, but actually dangerous activities (like throwing your pencil up in the air and trying to catch it) I never once got challenged on (even though it left a permanent graphite stain in the center of my palm once when it landed wrong)

Next you'll tell me Heineken and Corona aren't representative of their great nations either...

the thing is europeans don't drink that much beer around tourist spots; I do remember the heinkenen factory being mostly western tourists when I visited but I don't remember people distinctively drinking other beers, I mostly remember them drinking like tea and other stuff (but then again I wasn't really hard hitting the bars at the time)

Oh, right

VOTE: krazy

so I'd rather do Krazy than Mastina and that's on the allowed list

I guess I didn't really fully process what was going on here earlier, but why exactly are you of all people allowing your vote to be gated by fire?

I am protecting my townreads. I don't care if it makes me unpopular to do so. And I will not be convinced by u or anyone else that saving townreads is anti town or against my win con.

That's stupid.

if it was RC saying this would you be okay with that fire?

Sitting here worrying about being handcuffed by Fire is doing is no good.

lol I don't remember you being this raunchy before fish

why am I in a game with people who all use moon logic.

you're warping the conversation around the pushes in a distracting and unhelpful way

if SS dies we always lynch mastina, so I have no idea where ur ditochemy that u have to die for us to lynch mastina is coming from dude.

bad mech

What the fuck did I just read

overly long post that says "using the governor shot the way you're threatening to use it is really shitty"

I townread you by meta yes, you seemed similar to The Thread Title Sucked but your read progression on me kinda strikes that. In that game your read on me felt dynamic and here it just seems static. And like the second I gave up on that meta townread your posting just felt a lot worse to me so I think I was wrong to townread you off meta. And idk how my play really looks at this point but I feel like my activity would do something to the townread on me idk.

this is pretty interesting because gamma abuses meta a lot as scum, but this also feels like a way more convoluted thought process irt meta than I've seen from him before so if he is scum this game, I think he's doing a lot better, but this might actually just be an actual discussion of meta from town gamma?

Krazy - can we just lynch here please. It's a slot Fire won't govern AND it's scummy. It's like the best of both worlds. Mastina's case is basically what I've been saying since late D1. Krazy's ISO is largely mechanics, something several people remarked was within his comfort zone as scum and was a large source of paranoia throughout MD so I know mastina isn't just pulling that out of her ass. I think someone like MariaR said there's nothing in Krazy's ISO why are we lynching this but like... That's exactly it. Town!Krazy doesn't have "nothing" in his ISO. I was town pinged by his interactions with Mastina at first today but his catchups since than have been too angery and too off tonally for me to believe this is town Krazy. I keep comparing to MD and I realize meta isn't everything, but the difference in tone feels like night and day. I think if this was town!Krazy I would be town reading him by now... and it's just not happening.

Like, you've been all over the place on me, but even then this seems like you've never been this consistently wrong on me before.
A) Why the fuck do you care about fire's governor?
B) Once again, I talked about coins for ages in Merchant's Dance, so you of all people should not fucking think I "only talk about mech as scum" -- of the people in this list, you are one of the people who should BEST know that that argument is nonsense
C) You literally just saw me in Vengeful Ghosts. And this is "too angery" to be town Krazy?
D) You have like, never townread me for more than about 5 minutes in any game we've played together so saying you should be townreading me by now sounds fake
E) Why do I feel like you are selectively ignoring every game we have played together in your read on me?

[Krazy]

you know i don't really care about pronouns

I want to fight this but I also think I've probably called you "he" like idk how many times so... glass houses

I've been end gamed by scum that just AtE'd really well

I mean Nancy did more than just AtE, she also spammed a thousand fucking posts

Menalque is probably town but he's irritating.

?

PB and Mena solve each other I don't think they're a dif alignment

Can you point me to the posts that make you feel this way?

WE LYNCH THE MASTINA

VOTE: mastina

[Krazy]

via meta i think it's like fairly obvious i'm town

You're saying this to me?!

[Krazy]

Krazy do you think Menalque is a likely scum target and likely scum?

What do you mean by "likely scum target"?

@pops did I miss your response to that?

[Krazy]

like I agree with this but *what did you mean* by this?

@Dann why did you ignore this?

so if maria's vote is scummy FYPOV why are you not unvoting me here?

@Dann why did you ignore this?

I'm so confused by literally everything you have done today Pink Floof

Where is Pink Floof?

i'm like openly inviting people to fight me if they disagree

I asked you specifically about mastina and Fire and I kinda feel like you gave me fuck all in terms of a specific response. Maybe I can check your iso and you said shit elsewhere but if you want people to disagree maybe don't ignore them or play little games when they ask you about specific reads

[Krazy]

I've seen Fireb be dramatic and draw a lot of attention but this is actually blatantly taking a dump on the thread.

OK so this is your fire read?

Cause I think the only game he didn't take a dump on the game was Story Revisited. He was town there, but he was town in Merchant's Dance and Excalibur and he definitely dumped on both of those games. He also arguably dumped on Witches' Dance, but that's a lot more subjective and only really true for the perspective of the scum team so I'd say he dumps on games a lot more as town than as scum

That being said it's weird how anti-fun he's being here so maybe I can see it but given I wanted to discuss this read on you and specifically asked you about it and all you gave me was "I'm disappointed you don't already know" I'm not sure I agree that

i'm like openly inviting people to fight me if they disagree

is actually what you're doing in terms of actions

Especially given I also wanted to know what specifically makes you think mastina broke her scum range, but as far as I can tell you've only said that but not really defended or explained it

[Krazy]

Pretty sure she has already agreed to be leashed.

A) This is the opposite of what she agreed to
B) Leashing her does not solve her slot
C) Keeping SS alive does not win the game
D) Keeping mastina alive does not guarantee SS stays alive

[Krazy]

In short, do you really wanna lynch a claimed protective?

Boy I can't wait for literally every scum player we get a wagon on now to claim protective

[Krazy]

A) I'd rather not waste a day phase? Why don't you care?
B) Yes. I also specifically remember you and other people discussion how talking about the coins for ages was scummy. Then you proceeded to do a whole lot more. I don't see you solving or forming reads in these big catch up posts. I see you quoting things and asking empty questions.
C) I didn't think you were angery in Vengeful Ghosts.
D) That's an objective lie? I town read you all throughout Merchant's Dance despite my paranoia. I fucking doc saved your slot twice in a row in Vengeful Ghosts. I know you're salty about how that game almost ended but I've town read you most of the time I've played with you.
E) See above.

In what world do you let fucking firebringer gate the lynches? A day where firebringer gets to decide the lynch as an unknown IS a wasted day.

Give me an example of one of these "empty questions" rather than just making accusations

You didn't think I was angry in vengeful ghosts when I literally fucking lynched Boon just for being obstructionist?

You saved the other heads of my hydra in Vengeful Ghosts, let's be real

And Merchant's Dance you came back to paranoia on me a lot of times. Maybe we remember that game differently but I remember you saying you were "paranoid" about me basically through the whole game

[Krazy]

Maybe we remember that game differently but I remember you saying you were "paranoid" about me basically through the whole game

I mean I remember you doing that to me. And that in turn making me paranoid about you.

I feel like we had a mutual town read that was just fucked up with paranoia.

I mean I had you as deepwolf for the entire game and then I literally bet the game on it

I don't claim to be super good at reading you

That being said I did look back through VG and I wasn't as visibly angry as I remember being *in thread*

So maybe your read is kinda fucked since I was in a hydra that game and vented quite a bit on discord. So it's possible that my tone seems different to you since I'm on my main and not in a hydra

But now I'm wondering how much angier I feel I've gotten since merchant's dance which is probably what you see as baseline. Hmmmmmm

[Krazy]

1. The game is too large for me to have confident reads on every single slot. It's gotten better since D1 but the amount of players has also caused a bloat on the game that's made it difficult to play and apparently for some players to be invested. It's just too large. Idk how much more you want me to explain on that
.

Ok this is good because we don't feel that way for the same reasons. I was going to say that this game feels kinda frustrating at times because every time I push somewhere the thread moves off basically. Like part of that is clearly the fickleness of some of the town players but idk, I feel like this game feels like there's too many scum... But I guess you're not feeling that.

Like when you're town I feel like I have a lot of jarring mindmelds with you... I didn't get that a ton in MD tho so its not like we always mindmeld. But you're feeling a little more like ND dann to me here at the moment, but I still had like... One mindmeld with you earlier

[Krazy]

So maybe your read is kinda fucked since I was in a hydra that game and vented quite a bit on discord. So it's possible that my tone seems different to you since I'm on my main and not in a hydra

But now I'm wondering how much angier I feel I've gotten since merchant's dance which is probably what you see as baseline. Hmmmmmm

I definitely don't feel I've ever encountered this tone from you before.

I'm not saying it's bad or worse but I remember MD Krazy being more... friendly? Conciliatory?

maybe my baseline is outdated but that's still not all of why I'm scum reading you here

I mean MD I thought nancy was town and would solve you so I was never super concerned with your slot too. I also got super fatigued after RC started threatening to leave ank so idk.

Like I feel like your tone toward me seems more different than my tone toward you. and mostly it's just weird to see you being more confident in your reads of me, especially when they're wrong

[Krazy]

O rly?

[Krazy]

Something_Smart

MariaR / Titus
GreyICE / Gamma Emerald

PenguinPower / Formerfish
popsofctown

Firebringer / chennisden / Iconeum / Katsuki / Menalque

Pink Ball / Dannflor / the worst

mastina

Maria/Titus -- feel like I've seen Maria's range quite a bit and tonally this is very consistent with her townplay. Titus feels very, very different from the last two scum games I saw of hers.
GreyIce should probably be near lock town but he's been kinda absent; still I think his interactions with LLD on day 1 are very unlikely to come from s/s.
Gamma is someone I've had trouble reading in the past, particularly in mid-game (as is now), but tonally posts like 7326 up above feel more town and I've been liking some other things a bit more from town recently. I was worried at the end of day 1 that Gamma was going to be going for a weird thing on me, since as scum he either goes hard pocket or open aggro, but actually his talks with me more recently have felt more even-keeled rather than manipulative.

Penguin is like, always a gamble but I've had semi-decent luck reading him off the tone and purpose of his gifs and he kinda seems okay for town here. I saw some votes earlier on him from Maria and pops so I guess I could ask about that read. I will say I don't think I've ever seen him openly defend me before so that's new. But it's also not consistent with his scum game where I feel he usually just kinda plays around me.
Fish tonally feels really different from my last few games with him as town but only in good ways so I'm not gonna complain about it right now. I've also meta-dived him before and he tends to veer in the opposite direction as scum. So he's kinda off-meta but not in a way that points toward scum.

I'm a little baffled by the suggestion that I'm pocketing pops given I wasn't even townreading her slot, but okay. I'm mostly looking at this slot getting pushed by the people I'm more suspicious of right now. I also feel like pops approach toward mastina has felt pretty town, contrary to apparently several people's opinions. pops handled nomnom pretty well in one of my last games and while pops does feel different than she did that game, I feel like the same ability to pierce through nonsense is holding up. Leaning town.

Fire is annoying more than he is scummy so even if I did townread him I wouldn't actually give him the benefit of the doubt right now
Unfortunately I don't read the games I mod nearly as closely as I do the games I play so I need to reread chenni in the game I modded because that seems closest to this
There's a small part of me that wonders if Ico's "miller" comment about LLD might have possibly been a townslip? but I'm also used to him having a lot more presence so I'd like to see him actually get into the game so I don't have to wonder about minor potential slips and can judge him more on consistent quality
Kats was very sheepable in EICN and not getting that here at all, maybe should be lower but I still kinda? liked the d1 LLD push
Mena I've ranted about. Maybe I'm choking here and he should be lower still, I'm not thrilled with his vote on me, but his playstyle feels sooo different from the pokemon game where he was scum I'm having a hard time totally resting on where I think Ank checked. idk

Pink Ball's random flip on me still has me totally baffled and I want him to get in here and respond to my questions about what was going on there
Dann I'm actually starting to wonder if maybe I can see where he's coming from in my tone perhaps being different here, but I'd still say HIS tone toward me feels very different from any other game I've played with him, and he also seems to be really selectively remembering what actually happened in MD so... yeah not putting him very high but I'm not totally sure this isn't just a change from being more familiar with me and also me being outside a hydra
Duck is starting to do the evasive/stally bullshit he does as scum but I also remember being townpinged by him a few times this game so fuck if I know. I thought the idea that I would meta him as town was hilarious given we've talked about how hilariously that failed the last time I tried it in earnest. pedit: the ate above is like, slightly more likely to come from town duck but I'm not fucking with my list more tonight

Mastina is like... actually the more I think about how Dann remembers some of my past games, I can like, maybe see mastina as being just totally wrong about me. The main problem here is that I just don't see her being wrong about me so aggressively after being so indifferently and cynically wrong on me in EICN. I also think the assertions that she's outside her scumrange are highly suspect. I know some people have a lot of experience with mastina, and I'm like, trying to understand why Titus seems so confident she's town. But certain things--like misrepresenting Ank's hide target as part of her case, backtracking on that point, while simultaneously misrepresenting my meta, makes it very hard for me to give her the benefit of the doubt here. The simplest explanation is that she's just scum and wasn't planning to actually push me yet because she thought Ari would be today's lynch. I also think that she would have actually engaged me in a good-faith manner once we started going. I feel like she was basically indifferent to my reads and positions this game, very uninterested in talking to me about how I see the game, and wanted to make an entire case that basically just remained on meta bullshit. This feels very, very different to the town mastina of Tatsuya's anime upick. She's also the only scum player that has ever mislynched me as town and I'm sure as fuck not letting that happen again, even if the means there were very different than the means here.