The Root of Toxicity in Mafia Games

[popsofctown]

Just FTR the times I'm criticizing ND for aren't the same as saying she's always bad or is bad in general, just that conventional wisdom on 'townreads' is wrong

I don’t make my reads by using conventional wisdom, that’s why they tend to be in general, better than average.

Do you mean better than average as in "better than number of scum divided by total number of players", or better than average as in you think you are better than most other players?

[Ramcius]

Better than average means nothing, it's either 90-95% accuracy on your townreads or not. It's easy to fall into "I'm good at townreading people", when default value is 75% considering scum : town ratio on average is 3 : 1

[OkaPoka]

But scumreading pisses off people, so that's toxic too

maybe just me but i dont mind getting scumread

i get frustrated if you decide that you want to lock the entire playerlist as town and decide ok i guess this person is the least locked town

then i have no tears left to cry

[Nancy Drew 39]

Just FTR the times I'm criticizing ND for aren't the same as saying she's always bad or is bad in general, just that conventional wisdom on 'townreads' is wrong

I don’t make my reads by using conventional wisdom, that’s why they tend to be in general, better than average.

Do you mean better than average as in "better than number of scum divided by total number of players", or better than average as in you think you are better than most other players?

That isn’t what I said. I said better than “average”, which /= “better than most”.

I think I look for things that most people ignore so yes, I do trust my reads for those reasons.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Better than average means nothing, it's either 90-95% accuracy on your townreads or not. It's easy to fall into "I'm good at townreading people", when default value is 75% considering scum : town ratio on average is 3 : 1

Agree to disagree on that. I’d say closer to 75% but higher on certain players. I do better when I can use meta because then you don’t wrongly read playstyle.

[Enter]

Just FTR the times I'm criticizing ND for aren't the same as saying she's always bad or is bad in general, just that conventional wisdom on 'townreads' is wrong

I don’t make my reads by using conventional wisdom, that’s why they tend to be in general, better than average.

Do you mean better than average as in "better than number of scum divided by total number of players", or better than average as in you think you are better than most other players?

That isn’t what I said. I said better than “average”, which /= “better than most”.

I think I look for things that most people ignore so yes, I do trust my reads for those reasons.

pops: "do you read town better than you read scum or do you read town better than most other town players read town?"
Nancy: "no."

[Enter]

Better than average means nothing, it's either 90-95% accuracy on your townreads or not. It's easy to fall into "I'm good at townreading people", when default value is 75% considering scum : town ratio on average is 3 : 1

Agree to disagree on that. I’d say closer to 75% but higher on certain players. I do better when I can use meta because then you don’t wrongly read playstyle.

he's stating a fact

you can't just disagree with a fact because you don't like it lol

[Nancy Drew 39]

Just FTR the times I'm criticizing ND for aren't the same as saying she's always bad or is bad in general, just that conventional wisdom on 'townreads' is wrong

I don’t make my reads by using conventional wisdom, that’s why they tend to be in general, better than average.

Do you mean better than average as in "better than number of scum divided by total number of players", or better than average as in you think you are better than most other players?

That isn’t what I said. I said better than “average”, which /= “better than most”.

I think I look for things that most people ignore so yes, I do trust my reads for those reasons.

pops: "do you read town better than you read scum or do you read town better than most other town players read town?"
Nancy: "no."

That isn’t what I said. I said my reads are better than “average” = better then many.

I don’t know why you’re trying to split hairs here with semantics?

[Enter]

That isn’t what I said. I said my reads are better than “average” = better then many.

I don’t know why you’re trying to split hairs here with semantics?

i'm not splitting hairs with semantics

she didn't ask you a yes or no question

but you answered

witha "no"

lol

[Nancy Drew 39]

That isn’t what I said. I said my reads are better than “average” = better then many.

I don’t know why you’re trying to split hairs here with semantics?

i'm not splitting hairs with semantics

she didn't ask you a yes or no question

but you answered

witha "no"

lol

No, I answered with better than average, which is also many. Saying most would be inaccurate and arrogant, while better than average/many is both accurate and not arrogant.

I’m not going to lie and deny the truth, I 100% stand by this.

[Ramcius]

Better than average means nothing, it's either 90-95% accuracy on your townreads or not. It's easy to fall into "I'm good at townreading people", when default value is 75% considering scum : town ratio on average is 3 : 1

Agree to disagree on that. I’d say closer to 75% but higher on certain players. I do better when I can use meta because then you don’t wrongly read playstyle.

You have 75% chance to hit town, when picking random person D1 in most games, so 75% accuracy is same as picking random person and saying it's town. Better less townreads, but confident ones than having bunch of townreads with low accuracy

[Ircher]

Moving on, I personally don't think toxicity is the result of mafia by itself. Perhaps Mafia exacerbates the issue of toxicity by its nature, but I would say the true cause of toxicity is people being unwilling to hear others out and having particular personalities that inevitably lead to a clash.

[Enter]

No, I answered with better than average, which is also many. Saying most would be inaccurate and arrogant, while better than average/many is both accurate and not arrogant.

I’m not going to lie and deny the truth, I 100% stand by this.

...

whatever nancy

[Nancy Drew 39]

Better than average means nothing, it's either 90-95% accuracy on your townreads or not. It's easy to fall into "I'm good at townreading people", when default value is 75% considering scum : town ratio on average is 3 : 1

Agree to disagree on that. I’d say closer to 75% but higher on certain players. I do better when I can use meta because then you don’t wrongly read playstyle.

You have 75% chance to hit town, when picking random person D1 in most games, so 75% accuracy is same as picking random person and saying it's town. Better less townreads, but confident ones than having bunch of townreads with low accuracy

Yeah, I do see your point and I’m not denying it but I have found in a lot of games, I correctly tr players others wrongly sr.

[Nancy Drew 39]

No, I answered with better than average, which is also many. Saying most would be inaccurate and arrogant, while better than average/many is both accurate and not arrogant.

I’m not going to lie and deny the truth, I 100% stand by this.

...

whatever nancy

You’re misinterpreting my post like I said something I didn’t, so I’m just clarifying that.

[Ramcius]

Better than average means nothing, it's either 90-95% accuracy on your townreads or not. It's easy to fall into "I'm good at townreading people", when default value is 75% considering scum : town ratio on average is 3 : 1

Agree to disagree on that. I’d say closer to 75% but higher on certain players. I do better when I can use meta because then you don’t wrongly read playstyle.

You have 75% chance to hit town, when picking random person D1 in most games, so 75% accuracy is same as picking random person and saying it's town. Better less townreads, but confident ones than having bunch of townreads with low accuracy

Yeah, I do see your point and I’m not denying it but I have found in a lot of games, I correctly tr players others wrongly sr.

I know, it feels nice to be right, when everyone else is wrong. But now think, how often you saved or would saved scum with your incorrect townread and that did cost (or would've cost, if people listened to you) you the game?

[Enter]

No, I answered with better than average, which is also many. Saying most would be inaccurate and arrogant, while better than average/many is both accurate and not arrogant.

I’m not going to lie and deny the truth, I 100% stand by this.

...

whatever nancy

You’re misinterpreting my post like I said something I didn’t, so I’m just clarifying that.

no

[Nancy Drew 39]

No, I answered with better than average, which is also many. Saying most would be inaccurate and arrogant, while better than average/many is both accurate and not arrogant.

I’m not going to lie and deny the truth, I 100% stand by this.

...

whatever nancy

You’re misinterpreting my post like I said something I didn’t, so I’m just clarifying that.

no

Yes.

[Enter]

No, I answered with better than average, which is also many. Saying most would be inaccurate and arrogant, while better than average/many is both accurate and not arrogant.

I’m not going to lie and deny the truth, I 100% stand by this.

...

whatever nancy

You’re misinterpreting my post like I said something I didn’t, so I’m just clarifying that.

no

Yes.

no, nancy, you misinterpreted something someone else said

[RadiantCowbells]

Maybe?

[Nancy Drew 39]

No, I answered with better than average, which is also many. Saying most would be inaccurate and arrogant, while better than average/many is both accurate and not arrogant.

I’m not going to lie and deny the truth, I 100% stand by this.

...

whatever nancy

You’re misinterpreting my post like I said something I didn’t, so I’m just clarifying that.

no

Yes.

no, nancy, you misinterpreted something someone else said

I said my reads were better than average or many. That isn’t a “no”.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Maybe?

[Ramcius]

When most have bad reads, being better than most isn't much, tbh

I will give you a piece of advice - do not try read everyone, it's okay to have null reads. If you not sure about your read, just say it, not force your read. Personally I feel like I make most mistakes, when I try force reads as opposed to reads that comes naturally to me

[Nancy Drew 39]

When most have bad reads, being better than most isn't much, tbh

I will give you a piece of advice - do not try read everyone, it's okay to have null reads. If you not sure about your read, just say it, not force your read. Personally I feel like I make most mistakes, when I try force reads as opposed to reads that comes naturally to me

+1

I think that’s great advice, thanks. Yeah, sometimes I get asked to make a readslists when I either don’t have or have very few reads. So, I absolutely hate to be asked that. Asking me for reads, fine but I only like to make readslists when I want to and if I do what I’m asked when I’m not ready to make one, it usually gets shit on, so I’ve actually found it’s better to outright refuse than make a readslist you don’t feel at all confident on.

I think being honest about that is best because people can usually read sincerity.

[Ramcius]

When most have bad reads, being better than most isn't much, tbh

I will give you a piece of advice - do not try read everyone, it's okay to have null reads. If you not sure about your read, just say it, not force your read. Personally I feel like I make most mistakes, when I try force reads as opposed to reads that comes naturally to me

+1

I think that’s great advice, thanks. Yeah, sometimes I get asked to make a readslists when I either don’t have or have very few reads. So, I absolutely hate to be asked that. Asking me for reads, fine but I only like to make readslists when I want to and if I do what I’m asked when I’m not ready to make one, it usually gets shit on, so I’ve actually found it’s better to outright refuse than make a readslist you don’t feel at all confident on.

I think being honest about that is best because people can usually read sincerity.

Problem with readlists is that someone taught people that scum have hard time faking reads, ofc I love this dynamic as a scum, cause I just need throw out some readlist that is similar to most townies readlists and I can sit comfy for a while