Newbie 612: Cancelled due to mod error

[strappado]

FoS: TartarianCerberus

for putting me at L-2
I think we're all agreed on the dice roll thing. I dont know if I will think in future games that someone is scummy for using it, but I think it does take away some info that can be gained during the random stage, and town needs all the info they can get. Does anyone think a "love" vote takes away information that can be gained, or can that be just as useful later on?

[Norinel]

Vote Count:

strappado: 3 (Brandi, pmchugh, TartarianCerberus)
J-Man: 2 (JamesThePhox, babygirl86)
pmchugh: 1 (Dean Harper)
babygirl86: 1 (W!nt3r)
TartarianCerberus: 1 (J-man)
Brandi: 1 (strappado)

Not voting (0): No one

5 to lynch

[Brandi]

FoS: TartarianCerberus

for putting me at L-2
I think we're all agreed on the dice roll thing. I dont know if I will think in future games that someone is scummy for using it, but I think it does take away some info that can be gained during the random stage, and town needs all the info they can get. Does anyone think a "love" vote takes away information that can be gained, or can that be just as useful later on?

Random votes are that, random. Just because I added on an extra word doesn't make it any more or less random. The only real reason I voted for you was because of your avatar. I just thought adding 'love' onto it would make the vote sound happier/cuter. (Much like the badger in your avatar!)

[strappado]

badgers are not adorable goshdarnit! They are ferocious, unrelenting and fearsome...I will not have my avatar reduced to a cuddly play-toy.

[Brandi]

Okay. FIiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine. >:U

[W!nt3r]

FoS: TartarianCerberus

for putting me at L-2
I think we're all agreed on the dice roll thing. I dont know if I will think in future games that someone is scummy for using it, but I think it does take away some info that can be gained during the random stage, and town needs all the info they can get. Does anyone think a "love" vote takes away information that can be gained, or can that be just as useful later on?

we didn't agree on anything. The town collective group never said: It is ok to use dice as a form of determining our initial, random votes.

FoS Strappado

for basic misrepresentation.

Unvote

I think we have enough reactions here to start getting into thick, lively discussion... I'm retracting my initial arbitrary vote.

[strappado]

you're right W!int3r,

we

didn't agree on anything seeing as this is only your 2nd post and you never threw in your 2 cents on the subject.

But I got the feeling from those of us that

did

discuss it that we felt similarly: diceroll is not much of a scumtell, but it's also not a good idea for town as it detracts from the information that can be gained from day1. I got that feeling from these posts in particular

Anyone could decide to use a dice and not just because they are 'frightened scum.' Their reasonings could be as arbitrary as the dice themselves.

I also think dice rolling is also a way for any player to prevent early game metas. So it may be a personal habit rather than a role-based habit.

I didnt mean that everyone who uses it is scum, I merely meant that using it is helpful to scum and that if you wanted to avoid slipping up then doing this would be a good idea.

It's up to interpretation what they meant, but the general feeling I got was "not much of a tell, but not a good idea to do either"

The town collective group never said: It is ok to use dice as a form of determining our initial, random votes. FoS Strappado for basic misrepresentation.

misrepresentation? I think you are the one that is misrepresenting me. Could you please point out where I said that the group decided "it was ok to use dice as a form of determining our initial, random votes?" I think everything I've said has been to the opposite.

I'm at L-2, you FoS and unvote whoever you were voting... prepping yourself for a quickhammer if the opportunity arises?

[strappado]

and you're right, it appears we are out of the random voting stage, so

unvote

[TartarianCerberus]

okey-dokey then (because my vote was

mostly

random too).

Unvote: strappado

[W!nt3r]

you're right W!int3r,

we

didn't agree on anything seeing as this is only your 2nd post and you never threw in your 2 cents on the subject.

But I got the feeling from those of us that

did

discuss it that we felt similarly: diceroll is not much of a scumtell, but it's also not a good idea for town as it detracts from the information that can be gained from day1. I got that feeling from these posts in particular

Anyone could decide to use a dice and not just because they are 'frightened scum.' Their reasonings could be as arbitrary as the dice themselves.

I also think dice rolling is also a way for any player to prevent early game metas. So it may be a personal habit rather than a role-based habit.

I didnt mean that everyone who uses it is scum, I merely meant that using it is helpful to scum and that if you wanted to avoid slipping up then doing this would be a good idea.

It's up to interpretation what they meant, but the general feeling I got was "not much of a tell, but not a good idea to do either"

The town collective group never said: It is ok to use dice as a form of determining our initial, random votes. FoS Strappado for basic misrepresentation.

misrepresentation? I think you are the one that is misrepresenting me. Could you please point out where I said that the group decided "it was ok to use dice as a form of determining our initial, random votes?" I think everything I've said has been to the opposite.

I'm at L-2, you FoS and unvote whoever you were voting... prepping yourself for a quickhammer if the opportunity arises?

This is hogwash... There was not a "discussion." The people you quote as being part of your discussion only posted what their singular position on weather it was a scum tell or not. To discuss a point would imply that one means to prepare specific points on a subject and procure a dialog on said subject via multiple posts supporting one's point, or countering another's post...

As for my FoS, it was exactly that, a Finger of Suspicion. Your obtuse comment regarding my preparing a vote against you is another misrepresentation. I have made no move to vote you, nor have i posted anything to that effect, implying I have done so is hilarious. Also, seeing as you have been l-2 for 24 hours without being hammered by scum gives me great insight on who is who in this group.

Care to dig your hole any deeper?

[strappado]

To discuss a point would imply that one means to prepare specific points on a subject and procure a dialog on said subject via multiple posts supporting one's point, or countering another's post...

that may be your personal definition, but...
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/discussion

Main Entry: dis·cus·sion
Pronunciation: \di-ˈskə-shən\
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
1 : consideration of a question in open and usually informal debate

Also, I was not representing what you were doing, I was asking if that was your intention, and I dont see anything hilarious about asking a player if they may be jumping on a convenient bandwagon a little too early.

Also, conjecturing about why I haven't been hammered within the first 2 pages of day1 is WIFOM and illogical. I welcome the scum to quick lynch me, we could start day2 knowing both scum right off the bat. Not sure if we'll be that lucky, but IGMEOY

[strappado]

I'll grant you that "discussion" may not be the best word for the quoted posts, but I'll call it discussion for lack of a better word. Would anyone like to suggest what that was? Casual discourse? Conjecturing?
You ignored what I said and went for word usage instead. Would you care to address

what

I said and not

how

I said it?

[W!nt3r]

I'll grant you that "discussion" may not be the best word for the quoted posts, but I'll call it discussion for lack of a better word. Would anyone like to suggest what that was? Casual discourse? Conjecturing?
You ignored what I said and went for word usage instead. Would you care to address

what

I said and not

how

I said it?

How, might I ask, did I ignore what you said. I responded to it, answered your question, and corrected you.

You're making pointless banter that has nothing to do with game at hand. Instead of taking the criticism in stride you've decided to push an irresolute argument based on semantics which still you proved nothing with. Providing a definition for a word that still does not fit the situation is ignorance.

You're trying to argue the fact that you had a discussion with your fellow townsfolk. In your argument you site the definition of the word that you are being attacked on... This does not help the fact that the situation in question still does not count as a "discussion."

Would you care to address

what

I said and not

how

I said it?

[W!nt3r]

Also, I was not representing what you were doing, I was asking if that was your intention, and I dont see anything hilarious about asking a player if they may be jumping on a convenient bandwagon a little too early.

As for this tidbit:

Yes you were, in fact representing my actions incorrectly. I foSed you, because despite your scummy behavior, the first three votes on you were up to the point, random. When and if those votes are removed, I will vote for you so as to make clear that I was not jumping on a Random-phase wagon, and instead voting you based on my suspicions....The hilarity lies with your reactions, and your actions. Your overt defensiveness is supportive of my suspicions regardless.

[pmchugh]

Also, I was not representing what you were doing, I was asking if that was your intention, and I dont see anything hilarious about asking a player if they may be jumping on a convenient bandwagon a little too early.

As for this tidbit:

Yes you were, in fact representing my actions incorrectly. I foSed you, because despite your scummy behavior, the first three votes on you were up to the point, random. When and if those votes are removed, I will vote for you so as to make clear that I was not jumping on a Random-phase wagon, and instead voting you based on my suspicions....The hilarity lies with your reactions, and your actions. Your overt defensiveness is supportive of my suspicions regardless.

Hilarity? overt defensiveness?

Your over-reacting, you are the one being defensive

fos winter

unvote

What are you two even arguing about? Whether or not we had all agreed if it was more scummy to use the dice to vote? if so then do you not agree winter? And if not why not.

[W!nt3r]

Also, I was not representing what you were doing, I was asking if that was your intention, and I dont see anything hilarious about asking a player if they may be jumping on a convenient bandwagon a little too early.

As for this tidbit:

Yes you were, in fact representing my actions incorrectly. I foSed you, because despite your scummy behavior, the first three votes on you were up to the point, random. When and if those votes are removed, I will vote for you so as to make clear that I was not jumping on a Random-phase wagon, and instead voting you based on my suspicions....The hilarity lies with your reactions, and your actions. Your overt defensiveness is supportive of my suspicions regardless.

Hilarity? overt defensiveness?

Your over-reacting, you are the one being defensive

fos winter

unvote

What are you two even arguing about? Whether or not we had all agreed if it was more scummy to use the dice to vote? if so then do you not agree winter? And if not why not.

It's not a matter of me agreeing or not, she (strappado) said that "I think we're all agreed on the dice roll thing." this is incorrect as, like she said, I did not give my input on said subject.

I fosed her for assuming "we" were in agreement.

She reacted with a post that was not at all needed. Then she again, misinformed, posted with an assumption that I had made it clear i was ready to even vote her. This was not the case.

I then posted as much, pointing out further flaws in her "argument," if it can even be called that. She made an unfounded assumption, when I called her out on it, she reacted in a defensive manner... i am not at all defending any of my actions, PM. Instead, it would seem, I am the one making the attacks... Is this not the case? Please site my over reaction, so that I may be properly refuted.

[Brandi]

I was a bit confused as to what to make of that little argument above at first, but W!nt3r made it slightly more clear with that last post.

It's not a matter of me agreeing or not, she (strappado) said that "I think we're all agreed on the dice roll thing." this is incorrect as, like she said, I did not give my input on said subject.

I fosed her for assuming "we" were in agreement.

I understand and agree that she was incorrect in her statement that everyone had agreed on the dice method when in fact everyone had not.

But how does that particular mistaken assumption make her suspicious?

I foSed you, because despite your scummy behavior, the first three votes on you were up to the point, random.

Really, what scummy behavior? I've seen no indication of such.


Also what is up with this:

I have made no move to vote you, nor have i posted anything to that effect, implying I have done so is hilarious.

When and if those votes are removed, I will vote for you so as to make clear that I was not jumping on a Random-phase wagon, and instead voting you based on my suspicions....

So first you say that she is in the wrong for assuming that you were going to vote for her, yet you turn around and say that once a few votes are removed from her you are going to vote for her? What is the point in that?

Sure she is being defensive, but you said it yourself:

You're making pointless banter that has nothing to do with game at hand.

If everything she is going on about has nothing to do with the game then what reasonings could you possibly have for finding her suspicious?

Instead, it would seem, I am the one making the attacks... Is this not the case? Please site my over reaction, so that I may be properly refuted.

You are over reacting in the sense that there was no point in

attacking

Strap in the first place. In fact it

seems

like you were looking for the tiniest most insignificant thing to expose in attempts to try to turn someone into lynch-bait.

It seems as though what strap said here-

I'm at L-2, you FoS and unvote whoever you were voting... prepping yourself for a quickhammer if the opportunity arises?

-was indeed very plausible. I'm not saying specifically that those were your intentions, but it is very likely that they could have been. Obviously they wouldn't be your intentions any longer seeing as how she called you out on it.

Also, seeing as you have been l-2 for 24 hours without being hammered by scum gives me great insight on who is who in this group.

I wouldn't take that as insight at all. I don't think even a newbie scum would hammer someone so quickly at this point in time seeing as how they would have nothing to go on to back up their reasonings for hammering her, and would most definitely give themselves away if they did such. Also 24 hours really isn't that long. Not too many people have posted in that time frame and might not have even looked at what was going on...

But regardless, I do not see Strap as scummy in the least bit. I am however slightly suspicious of W!nt3r because of his over aggressiveness towards Strap without any valid reasonings for such.

That being said,

Unvote

. And W!nt3r, IGMEOY.

[pmchugh]

Well put brandi. I would also like to ask, why did you push such a simple point so furiously and be prepared to vote him for as you put it a "mis-understanding"

As far as I see it there was no mis-understanding as no-one has disagreed that it looks scummy, plus if you look at his initial post he says:

I think

we're all agreed on the dice roll thing. I dont know if I will think in future games that someone is scummy for using it, but I think it does take away some info that can be gained during the random stage, and town needs all the info they can get. Does anyone think a "love" vote takes away information that can be gained, or can that be just as useful later on?

He doesnt exactly say, Everyone 100% fully agrees that...

He says I think...

Oh and for those of you that dont know IGMEOY means, its: I've Got My Eye On You. Essentially its the same as FOS- Finger Of Suspicion except used less commonly. Its used for when you find someone suspicious but not enough to vote them.

[Brandi]

I was confused at first when you said He. Strappado is a girl ;P

[W!nt3r]

Well put brandi. I would also like to ask, why did you push such a simple point so furiously and be prepared to vote him for as you put it a "mis-understanding"

As far as I see it there was no mis-understanding as no-one has disagreed that it looks scummy, plus if you look at his initial post he says:

I think

we're all agreed on the dice roll thing. I dont know if I will think in future games that someone is scummy for using it, but I think it does take away some info that can be gained during the random stage, and town needs all the info they can get. Does anyone think a "love" vote takes away information that can be gained, or can that be just as useful later on?

He doesnt exactly say, Everyone 100% fully agrees that...

He says I think...

Oh and for those of you that dont know IGMEOY means, its: I've Got My Eye On You. Essentially its the same as FOS- Finger Of Suspicion except used less commonly. Its used for when you find someone suspicious but not enough to vote them.

Firstly, I believe Strap may be female as it display's the "female" symbol next to her avatar.

Secondly I pushed it because it would get a reaction... reactions are used to find scum. I got reactions. Welcome to mafia.

Third, I'd like to address brandi's post:

So first you say that she is in the wrong for assuming that you were going to vote for her, yet you turn around and say that once a few votes are removed from her you are going to vote for her? What is the point in that?

I said I had made no previous mention of voting her. It was silly of her to make the assumption. Then... with that information (her reaction to me saying I would not vote for her) she gave me the impression that she was flustered and scrambling to find something to say. This reaction leads me to believe that she was looking to force debate on something unfounded. I then proceeded to mention that i would vote for her. Do you notice how my mention of voting her came AFTER her second response? it is called a progression of events. i also made clear why I would vote her.

Additionally, brandi your quote:

"Really, what scummy behavior? I've seen no indication of such. "

I have to say that misrepresentation of information is a VERY BIG SCUM TELL, especially in noobie games, when players don't always make 2 or even 3 reads through a game thread. To misrepresent information, however vital, is deceptive to the other players. Deception is a tactic any scum will employ to play properly. Townies should have NO reason to misrepresent or deceive.

"You are over reacting in the sense that there was no point in attacking Strap in the first place. In fact it seems like you were looking for the tiniest most insignificant thing to expose in attempts to try to turn someone into lynch-bait. "

This is called scumhunting. It is used to divulge scumtells that might have otherwise gone unnoticed. It is a tactful way to get out of the random phase.

[Brandi]

Could you try using the

quote boxes

please? it makes things a lot easier ^_^;

I have to say that misrepresentation of information is a VERY BIG SCUM TELL, especially in noobie games, when players don't always make 2 or even 3 reads through a game thread. To misrepresent information, however vital, is deceptive to the other players. Deception is a tactic any scum will employ to play properly. Townies should have NO reason to misrepresent or deceive.

So by that logic, if a another player claims to be 18 years old but is really 16, then that is a scumtell? Since to you the vitality of the misrepresented information doesn't matter.

Also, would not a towns folk with a power role have a slight reason to be deceptive?

And why 'especially in noobie games' ? Wouldn't certain things be just as scummy in any other game as they are in newbie games?

Also I would see your point if Strap actually intended to deceive anyone. But she didn't. All she did was state that she was assured that everyone had agreed on something based on the previous responses in the thread. It was just a simple mistake on her part that she didn't take into account the others that had yet to express their opinions.

I think that you assuming that she is suspicious because of such is within the same reasoning of her assuming that you were preparing to hammer her when the opportunity came about.

Also (Man I say Also a lot), I would really like to see babygirl86 and J-man's opinions on recent discussions. Hopefully they can make some responses by tomorrow...

[J-man]

Also I would see your point if Strap actually intended to deceive anyone. But she didn't. All she did was state that she was assured that everyone had agreed on something based on the previous responses in the thread. It was just a simple mistake on her part that she didn't take into account the others that had yet to express their opinions.

That my friend is a very dangerous statement you just put out there you do realize what you have done by saying that don't you?

[J-man]

I have to say that misrepresentation of information is a VERY BIG SCUM TELL, especially in noobie games, when players don't always make 2 or even 3 reads through a game thread. To misrepresent information, however vital, is deceptive to the other players. Deception is a tactic any scum will employ to play properly. Townies should have NO reason to misrepresent or deceive.

I agree with this statement except that at the start there is a huge flaw, when you say

especially in noobie games,

that is where our opinions differ, i find that it is less of a scum tell in newbie games except in some cases, but thats walking both sides of the fence, and we can't have that.

[J-man]

oh and one more comment before I'm out.

About the whole W!nt3r baiting you guys, GJ winter you defiantly got the game rolling but mabye next time a little bait and switch would be more effective in drawing out the mafia.

A wider net is bound to catch more fish.

[pmchugh]

I was confused at first when you said He. Strappado is a girl ;P

Sorry I presumed all badgers were male, I always wondered how the lasted so long.

Anyway back on topic. Yes it is good to pressure people to try and get scum tells however you could at least base your accusations on something a little more than someone presuming that everyone was in agreement because as far as Ive seen she was right has as no-one has disagreed yet.

Please site my over reaction, so that I may be properly refuted{/quote]

I did but you didnt exactly refute it.

Secondly I pushed it because it would get a reaction... reactions are used to find scum. I got reactions. Welcome to mafia

ps. while your play hasnt been perfect I dont actually think you are scum I just disagree with your point.