Newbie 612: Cancelled due to mod error

[babygirl86]

alright I'm here- sorry guys... school's crazy right now... I'm not sure what I think of the whole winter- strappado arguement... I do think that what started out as a discussion on dice rolling has been blown entirely out of proportion. I don't think strappado is scum....it's not that horrible to think that everyone is in agreeance when everyone's not. I do however look closer at winter for bringing such aggressiveness and deffensiveness. What ha was doint seems to be far beyond pressuring IMO. I'm not positive enough to place a vote just yetbut

unvote, FOS: W!nt3r

[W!nt3r]

oh and one more comment before I'm out.

About the whole W!nt3r baiting you guys, GJ winter you defiantly got the game rolling but mabye next time a little bait and switch would be more effective in drawing out the mafia.

A wider net is bound to catch more fish.

Heaven's net is wide but it's mesh is fine.


@PM: Where is your clarification on what I said that can be construed as over-reacting? I must have missed it and would like to address it.

@Brandi: sorry for the absence of quoteboxes... I'll use them in the future. Also yes claiming to be 18 while really 16 can be a scum tell if we find out the truth because that means that the player in question is "capable" of lying/deceit. Profiling players based on their previous actions is metagaming, and deceit as mafia is a trait that is hard to ignore. Now weather strap's misrepresentation was intended or not should be the real point of discussion. I am inclined to believe that it was a "simple misunderstanding" but her responses to my pushing the point do give off a rather distasteful gleam.

@j-man again: Your second part here:

that is where our opinions differ, i find that it is less of a scum tell in newbie games except in some cases, but thats walking both sides of the fence, and we can't have that.

I think, to clearify, it is 50/50 in a noobie game as either VERY BIG SCUM TELL/not at all important. I agree that this may not be the former but at the same time it is not the latter. I feel it safely falls squarely in the middle.

@babygirl: Don't worry it's only really been a day or two, i think since you last posted... school > mafia... I still don't understand how my actions are being construed as "Defensiveness." Can someone please explain this to me further?


@ everyone: I have answered the questions posed to me in regards to my actions... If this constitutes "over reaction" and "defensiveness" then I will shift to making blind attacks and not taking any questions asked of me into account.

[strappado]

I can appreciate that W!nt3r was just trying to push for reactions, that is a good way to find scum and pro-town in nature. I

would

like clarification on whether he just misunderstood what I said or if he deliberately falsified to get a reaction.

He said:
we didn't agree on anything. The town collective group never said: It is ok to use dice as a form of determining our initial, random votes.

Did you think that I said that diceroll was ok to use or did you deliberately falsify to get a reaction?

Also, j-man's posts were kind of on the fence, I couldn't get a read as to how he felt either way, do you have a feeling either way? Have you noticed anything scummy?

Also, TartarianCereberus has remained really mute during this whole time. I know he's reading because he came in to undo his random vote once we moved from the random voting stage, but I haven't heard anything else from him, same questions to him that I directed at j-man.

[W!nt3r]

Did you think that I said that diceroll was ok to use or did you deliberately falsify to get a reaction?

I was under the impression you were implying that the consensus was that dice were okay ... If this is not the case, the statement is formally retracted.

However in either case... I was questioning your reasoning for a reaction.


As for my opinion on the subject: I think it's a player choice. It's also a player choice on how to read it... I personally wouldn't use it.

[W!nt3r]

Did you think that I said that diceroll was ok to use or did you deliberately falsify to get a reaction?

I was under the impression you were implying that the consensus was that dice were okay ... If this is not the case, the statement is formally retracted.

However in either case... I was questioning your reasoning for a reaction.


As for my opinion on the subject: I think it's a player choice. It's also a player choice on how to read it... I personally wouldn't use it.

EBWOP: "that dice were okay but not always a good idea..."

[TartarianCerberus]

strappado: I have to sleep and go to classes every now and then .

This whole discussion has me very confused, I read it two or three times before I could make anything of it. I think that all of you are just overreacting to everything. I know that overreacting is necessary to find scum and see reactions, but you guys are carrying this a little too far. I think we all concur now that using dice is a bit scummy, but at first no one knew any beter. People saw more experienced players do it in other games (i think), and wanted to do it themselves without thinking that much about it. Therefore, the dice used in this game have less to do with people being scum, and more to do with people's personal strategy at the beginning of the game. I think it's time to move past the whole dice roll thing, since it really can't prove anything. Instead, we should stop discussing it and all look back and look at people's reactions (which I'm gonna do right now). Those people who have been more defensive probably have a higher chance of being scum.

[TartarianCerberus]

I suspect that W!n is mafia. If you reread his posts, he just seems kinda scummy. He's both extremely defensive and offensive. I think he is scum and is pushing for strappado because it's a sensible move to make (doesn't appear too scummy, Brandi was already questioning strappado). Or he could be scumbuddies with strap and trying to distance themselves, but I doubt it, they're a little too against each other. I'm pretty sure one of them is scum, and I'm leaning towards W!n right now. Alternatively, Brandi could be scumbuddies with strap or W!n, but I don't want to jump to conclusions. I think our best bet is to go for W!n right now.

Vote: W!nt3r

Btw, before the change in roles, me and W!n were mafia together. Wouldn't be shocked if he still is. (My role changed, I swear)

[W!nt3r]

but I don't want to jump to conclusions.

Then please by all means keep your feet firmly planted.

[TartarianCerberus]

I'm just saying, to me you look like the most likely person to be scum. There's a 4/5 chance I'm wrong though, but we have to start somewhere.

[W!nt3r]

Can you please show me where I become defensive... I've asked this many times to no avail.

My "defensiveness" is being used as a basis for a case against me, yet you can not give me evidence of such actions on my part.

[pmchugh]

Just look at your last two posts, as soon as tarta accuses you you hit out at him. A few times people have called you defensive and you have been like Theres no way im defensive! which is quite ironic.

@PM: Where is your clarification on what I said that can be construed as over-reacting? I must have missed it and would like to address it.

I hadnt even really got round to it but you admitted yourself that you pushed hard, I can go back and quote if you like but I see no point. You know you over-reacted but I dont think that it neccessarily means you are scum.

Well put brandi. I would also like to ask, why did you push such a simple point so furiously and be prepared to vote him for as you put it a "mis-understanding"

As far as I see it there was no mis-understanding as no-one has disagreed that it looks scummy, plus if you look at his initial post he says:

I think

we're all agreed on the dice roll thing. I dont know if I will think in future games that someone is scummy for using it, but I think it does take away some info that can be gained during the random stage, and town needs all the info they can get. Does anyone think a "love" vote takes away information that can be gained, or can that be just as useful later on?

He doesnt exactly say, Everyone 100% fully agrees that...

He says I think...

Firstly, I believe Strap may be female as it display's the "female" symbol next to her avatar.

Secondly I pushed it because it would get a reaction... reactions are used to find scum. I got reactions. Welcome to mafia.

And tarta you contridicted yourself a little by saying that we were all over-reactigng and then voting w!nt3r for the same reasons that we suspected him.

[Dean Harper]

OK, first, im sorry i havent been as active as a should be in this game, i had a really tough week at school with lots of tests.

Second, Winter, you need to start spelling wether right. You keep spelling it weather (just one of my pet-peeves).

Third, after re-reading, i believe that Winter is the most scummy for his overreactiveness. I find it amusing however, that no one has made any attempt to show him where he seems scummy besides pmchugh. Including those posts, there are:

This is hogwash... There was not a "discussion." The people you quote as being part of your discussion only posted what their singular position on weather it was a scum tell or not. To discuss a point would imply that one means to prepare specific points on a subject and procure a dialog on said subject via multiple posts supporting one's point, or countering another's post...

As for my FoS, it was exactly that, a Finger of Suspicion. Your obtuse comment regarding my preparing a vote against you is another misrepresentation. I have made no move to vote you, nor have i posted anything to that effect, implying I have done so is hilarious. Also, seeing as you have been l-2 for 24 hours without being hammered by scum gives me great insight on who is who in this group.

Care to dig your hole any deeper?

I dont believe that being at L-2 in the first day of a game (even a newbie game) constitutes the idea that someone could be quicklynched by scum. IF they were to do this, the best way to proceed on D2 would be to lynch either of the last to voters. Not even the dummest scum would attempt that.

Even if it was not a "discussion" it was a public display of many people's thoughts on one subject, which can be roughly defined AS a discussion. Your point here is clearly overreactive. Does it REALLY matter whether it was a discussion or not? We all read the thread, we all know what it was.



Also included here can be Brandi's large post on page three, post #66.

Btw, before the change in roles, me and W!n were mafia together. Wouldn't be shocked if he still is. (My role changed, I swear)

I dont believe this helps you Tart or Winter's position as scum or town in any way.

[Brandi]

Also I would see your point if Strap actually intended to deceive anyone. But she didn't. All she did was state that she was assured that everyone had agreed on something based on the previous responses in the thread. It was just a simple mistake on her part that she didn't take into account the others that had yet to express their opinions.

That my friend is a very dangerous statement you just put out there you do realize what you have done by saying that don't you?

I don't really see how what I stated was 'dangerous' at all. Please elaborate. In fact I find it kind of odd that you would go out of your way to point something out and not explain what you were pointing out.

And tarta you contridicted yourself a little by saying that we were all over-reactigng and then voting w!nt3r for the same reasons that we suspected him.

I believe that TC was having a bit of trouble getting what he wanted to say across, because I was having a hard time understanding what he was getting at. Though his reaction seems similar to my initial reaction that "Everyone is over reacting." But one thing I don't understand is that it seems like he was trying to say that over reacting, or divulging into discussion over something supposedly insignificant is a scum tell, which I really don't think it is. (Though I'm not entirely sure if that is what he was getting at or not.)

[W!nt3r]

Just look at your last two posts, as soon as tarta accuses you you hit out at him. A few times people have called you defensive and you have been like Theres no way im defensive! which is quite ironic.

Stating Fact is not the same as Being Defensive.

I commented that several people have used my nonexistant defensiveness as a basis for cases against me. I asked to see evidence of such action... It was not shown... this is a fact... This is not my defense... It really did happened.


Also... You are making the assumption that my comment: "Then please keep your feet firmly planted" was an attack against Tartarian. This is incorrect. To clearify I was making a joke at his expense, because I am of an opinion very similar to yours in that, he contradicted himself with his post.


@Dean: Obviously we did not all know what it was because strap erred in calling the discourse a discussion. Your point is moot. I take it your comment on brandi's post was to site additional points that you agree with? please correct me if I am wrong.

Also, I apologize for my misspelling of whether, I've had problems with spelling since I was a child and things of that nature still get me.

[Brandi]

Second, Winter, you need to start spelling wether right. You keep spelling it weather (just one of my pet-peeves).

It's spelled whether* =P

Btw, before the change in roles, me and W!n were mafia together. Wouldn't be shocked if he still is. (My role changed, I swear)

I dont believe this helps you Tart or Winter's position as scum or town in any way.

Holy cow I totally missed that post. Tart I don't think that was something that needed to be brought up. I also don't believe W!nt3r would appreciate you saying that either. The fact that you said that two of you

were

scum makes it seem like you are indicating that there is no way you could be scum now because of the fact that we all received new roles. Which in a way would make you actually look very scummy... Because you are using irrelevant information that can't be properly argued to justify your innocence...

[Dean Harper]

Second, Winter, you need to start spelling wether right. You keep spelling it weather (just one of my pet-peeves).

It's spelled whether* =P

I lol'd



@Winter: yes, you are right in your assumptions.

[Norinel]

Vote Count:

J-Man: 1 (JamesThePhox)
pmchugh: 1 (Dean Harper)
TartarianCerberus: 1 (J-man)
w!nt3r: 1 (TartarianCerberus)

Not voting (5): babygirl86, Brandi, pmchugh, strappado, W!nt3r

5 to lynch

[Dean Harper]

unvote

we are obviously out of the random stage.

[JamesThePhox]

MOD: WILL BE V/LA FOR TWO WEEKS. REQUESTING REPLACEMENT. SORRY FOR THE INCONVENIENCE.

[Brandi]

Oh noes! Bye James. =[

[JamesThePhox]

Bye guys. Hope you guys have fun!

[strappado]

Wow, good posting, I've got lots to re-read. I'm not very active on the weekends, I typically use these games as an amusement during a boring work week. I'll read through what I missed and probably post on tuesday or wednesday (I'm off Monday, wheeeeeee!)

James, sorry to lose you, I had fun playing with you in our last game together

[pmchugh]

At this point imnot really sure who to suspect, I think that Winter was wrong to jump so heavily at strap but I dont think he is scum at the moment. Personally im going to look at the people who are sitting on the fence and trying to stay out of the argument.

[J-man]

I think that what W!nt3r did was very well done and a very good move, except maybe the part about overly protesting when he was called defensive. He has set himself up in a very good place in the first pages making himself important through his many early posts. He has set himself up to be a powerful player, a good move for any player that feels confident either in his scum hunting or townie impersonation.

I say Good Job W!nt3r, although you have put me in a tough spot, now i have to figure out whether you are scum or not. Though who knows til your dead eh?

[W!nt3r]

... except maybe the part about overly protesting when he was called defensive.

Well look at it this way... Would a man who is arrested in the united states go to court without first knowing the charges against him? No he would not.

I was never made aware of "what" I had done that was being misconstrued as over-reaction. I repeatedly asked that it be made explicitly clear what the issue was, and was repeatedly ignored. Would not letting the accused know what the accusations entail be the moral and just way of doing it?