Mini 617 - Scottish Mafia, Game Over

[kuribo]

Also, the fact that you called my post OMGUS when it wasn't even remotely OMGUS makes me think you're trying to make me look scummy when you know I'm not.

Unvote, Vote: Dcorbe

How is he supposed to KNOW you're not?




And also, since you brought up past games, I should point out that in MY experience, 100% of the people that have been called out for knowing how many scum there were in a closed setup have been scum. I'm not saying it's a bulletproof tell--- indeed, the sample size is too small--- but it's been fairly reliable thus far!

But I also combine that with your tendency to jump down peoples' throats in a shower of incomprehensible cursing. How dare we accuse you of being mafia? That's the attitude you give off.

[Empking]

Unvote

dcorbe, he made a bandwagon didn't seem to think their was anything wrong with that bandwagon but then just abandoned it.

When he was asked to give reasons he refused but then started to pretend that he did give reasons.

I don't think his completely terriable vote is reason to lynch him, but he acted like it was a propper vote with solid reasoning. Which it wasn't.

Vote: dcorbe

[starkmoon]

[col color=white]Player[col color=white]Votes[col color=white]Voting [col color=white]Erratus Apathos[col color=white]4[col color=white]dRool89, Lowell, massive, cephrir [col color=white]dcorbe[col color=white]4[col color=white]cybele, Erratus, q21, empking [col color=white]roflcopter[col color=white]1[col color=white]CC09 [col color=white]Lowell[col color=white]1[col color=white]rolfcopter [col color=white]q21[col color=white]2[col color=white]kuribo, dcorbe [col color=white]dRool89[col color=white]0[col color=white] [col color=white]CC09[col color=white]0[col color=white] [col color=white]massive[col color=white]0[col color=white]

[col color=white]Not Voting : [col color=white] Seems you all are voting

Any mistakes, let me know asap.

[Lowell]

kuribo- is there a reason you don't put your vote where your mouth is?

[Cephrir]

One of the main reasons the EA wagon (which you Cephrir approves of) being where it is, is due to the pushing of dcorbe... but he doesn't like dcorbe's behaviour?

Just because I think he's behaving oddly doesn't mean I can't agree with him on one point.

I need to go over all this stuff later, this game is going really quickly.

[roflcopter]

i love the pace of this game.

the number slip I see as a null tell. however, erratus' reaction to being wagoned over it is not, and his votes for massive and dcorbe were both pretty scummy. the former seemed like a crap attempt to start a wagon and the latter was omgus.

cephrir and lowell are making a little uneasy about the wagon on him though, both of their votes seemed opportunistic.

q21 seems to be chainsaw defending erratus with the attacks on dcorbe

vote: erratus

[roflcopter]

ebwop

need to

unvote, vote: erratus

[dcorbe]

Erratus: You're at L-2 right now. What do you have to say?

[kuribo]

kuribo- is there a reason you don't put your vote where your mouth is?

Probably because I don't feel three pages of discussion is enough to warrant putting 5 votes on EA just yet?

Although I see roflcoptor disagrees.

[roflcopter]

its not the amount of discussion which warrants my vote, its the content of the discussion

[Lowell]

kuribo- is there a reason you don't put your vote where your mouth is?

Probably because I don't feel three pages of discussion is enough to warrant putting 5 votes on EA just yet?

Although I see roflcoptor disagrees.

I've seen more than a few games get stalled in inanities because people say "oh, it's too soon to...". I don't think a relatively quick pace is a bad thing, as it makes it easier to retain original members and keep everyone engaged.

[kuribo]

kuribo- is there a reason you don't put your vote where your mouth is?

Probably because I don't feel three pages of discussion is enough to warrant putting 5 votes on EA just yet?

Although I see roflcoptor disagrees.

I've seen more than a few games get stalled in inanities because people say "oh, it's too soon to...". I don't think a relatively quick pace is a bad thing, as it makes it easier to retain original members and keep everyone engaged.

You're misunderstanding me. I've often gone on record to say that towns are far too timid--- but this doesn't necessarily mean that I'd be comfortable with his lynch right this moment.

Certainly his "slip," and his extreme overreaction to the slightest bit of criticism bears further discussion than just a quicklynch.

[dcorbe]

kuribo- is there a reason you don't put your vote where your mouth is?

Probably because I don't feel three pages of discussion is enough to warrant putting 5 votes on EA just yet?

Although I see roflcoptor disagrees.

I've seen more than a few games get stalled in inanities because people say "oh, it's too soon to...". I don't think a relatively quick pace is a bad thing, as it makes it easier to retain original members and keep everyone engaged.

You're misunderstanding me. I've often gone on record to say that towns are far too timid--- but this doesn't necessarily mean that I'd be comfortable with his lynch right this moment.

Certainly his "slip," and his extreme overreaction to the slightest bit of criticism bears further discussion than just a quicklynch.

Nobody is trying to lynch him. We're wagoning him to try and get some useful tells out of him. It's a common tactic. At L-2 he's in no danger of getting lynched any time soon and most early D1 wagons fall apart anyways.

[Erratus Apathos]

Completed two. Read through too many to count. And yes, I

have

seen games with two families of two, or three mafia and an SK (ask rofl about the latter ) and you know what has this weird tendency to happen in games with two scumgroups? Strangely enough, two people die in the same night! Until there's ACTUAL GOD DAMN EVIDENCE pointing to one of those fairly uncommon setups, there is NO REASON to assume they are likely. Three mafia is so common that it is in fact the default assumption, until proven otherwise.

Seriously would you geniuses lynch someone for saying something like "I think the scumpair is X and Y" after the first mafia lynch? Because that post makes the same bloody assumption I'm getting shitwagoned for.

good work Captain Overreaction

Yeah, I'm the one overreacting here. Not the people who put me at L-2 because I'm assuming there's three scum until proven otherwise, even though someone always assumes three scum until proven otherwise in just about every god damn mini normal. That makes sense.

Also, the fact that you called my post OMGUS when it wasn't even remotely OMGUS makes me think you're trying to make me look scummy when you know I'm not.

Unvote, Vote: Dcorbe

How is he supposed to KNOW you're not?

Uh if he's scum then he knows I'm not scum because I'm not on his scumteam? Oh wait I forgot we were assuming that this isn't a 3/9 setup for no fucking reason at all.

And also, since you brought up past games, I should point out that in MY experience, 100% of the people that have been called out for knowing how many scum there were in a closed setup have been scum. I'm not saying it's a bulletproof tell--- indeed, the sample size is too small--- but it's been fairly reliable thus far!

LOL no, I'm calling this obvious bluff. Prove that every single person who's ever assumed the number of scum was scum. (Tip: Make sure every example you use is from a theme or large or any other format where there isn't a default assumption, because those are especially relevant to this situation.)

And if I've done something that supposedly 100% of people who do are scum, then why in the hell would you be uncomfortable putting me at L-whatever? If town Kuribo was really 100% certain I was scum, he'd have no reason not to vote me even if he was hammering. And it's not even relevant how close I am to lynch, since when you first brought up your allegedly 100% scumtell I wasn't anywhere near lynch.

But I also combine that with your tendency to jump down peoples' throats in a shower of incomprehensible cursing. How dare we accuse you of being mafia? That's the attitude you give off.

I don't doubt you find my posts incomprehensible, because you sure haven't been comprehending them.

i love the pace of this game.

the number slip I see as a null tell. however, erratus' reaction to being wagoned over it is not, and his votes for massive and dcorbe were both pretty scummy. the former seemed like a crap attempt to start a wagon and the latter was omgus.

Double horseshit. You accuse me of being scummy for voting with intent to start a wagon even though dcorbe, who you're ignoring, did the very same. I guess a single standard is only half good enough for you? Try actually reading my Dcorbe vote it's clearly not OMGUS.

cephrir and lowell are making a little uneasy about the wagon on him though, both of their votes seemed opportunistic.

I see you've already decided who to blame my lynch on.

FoS: Kuribo, Roflcopter

[q21]

q21 seems to be chainsaw defending erratus with the attacks on dcorbe

If I see something I don't like or don't agree with I say so. If that amounts to defending someone, then so be it. If Erratus is later shown to be scum then I was wrong - but I still don't like the wagon and said so.

[kuribo]

At L-2 he's in no danger of getting lynched any time soon and most early D1 wagons fall apart anyways.

Stop it. Whenever I see this, I see you saying, "We can push a wagon as far as we want, but don't worry you're in no danger, and if you're lynched, it was an accident."

[kuribo]

If town Kuribo was really 100% certain I was scum, he'd have no reason not to vote me even if he was hammering. And it's not even relevant how close I am to lynch, since when you first brought up your allegedly 100% scumtell I wasn't anywhere near lynch.

Show me where I said I was absolutely certain you were scum, and I'll show you a post that you must have read while high.

FoS: Kuribo, Roflcopter

Don't stop with an FOS, you've already done a Freudian slip and over-reacted in extreme anger! Just vote for me and settle for full-blown OMGUS.

[dcorbe]

At L-2 he's in no danger of getting lynched any time soon and most early D1 wagons fall apart anyways.

Stop it. Whenever I see this, I see you saying, "We can push a wagon as far as we want, but don't worry you're in no danger, and if you're lynched, it was an accident."

If he were lynched right now and flipped town it would likely be scum hammering. If scum were to jump on the wagon right now for the quick hammer, it would be obvious what they were doing. It would be very stupid to quick-lynch him right now.

So again, he's in no danger of being lynched at L-2 because it would take not 1 but 2 more people to jump on.

[Erratus Apathos]

If town Kuribo was really 100% certain I was scum, he'd have no reason not to vote me even if he was hammering. And it's not even relevant how close I am to lynch, since when you first brought up your allegedly 100% scumtell I wasn't anywhere near lynch.

Show me where I said I was absolutely certain you were scum, and I'll show you a post that you must have read while high.

"100% of the people that have been called out for knowing how many scum there were in a closed setup have been scum." Or was I supposed to infer that you're uncertain I'm scum, despite how you're touting the flawlessness of your scumtell AND have never once expressed anything remotely interpretable as uncertainty of my alignment? Maybe I should try reading your posts while high, to see if we can get on the same wavelength.

FoS: Kuribo, Roflcopter

Don't stop with an FOS, you've already done a Freudian slip and over-reacted in extreme anger! Just vote for me and settle for full-blown OMGUS.

And that brings us to 3/3 of my suspects mislabeling me as OMGUS. Have you noticed how I haven't attacked Lowell, Cephrir, Empking, or Massive since voting me? That's because their votes have more of a "Let's see where this wagon goes" feel than an "ERRATUS IS OBVSCUM LYNCHLYNCHDIEDIELYNCHLYNCHDIE, but with that out of the way I'm not all that certain Erratus is scum" vibe like you, Dcorbe and Roflcopter all give off.

And how is dRool voting for me when he hasn't even posted?

[kuribo]

"100% of the people that have been called out for knowing how many scum there were in a closed setup have been scum."

I also mentioned the small sample size, if you'll recall. I never said that YOU were 100% scum, I said that 100% of the people who made the same mistake in games that I've played were also scum.

[Cephrir]

This post contains responses to a lot of things, including some things that are all the way back on page 2, because this game has been going so fast I didn't have time to answer said things at the time.

The votes right now are pretty much random, but this this sounds like you're breadcrumming about your involvement with others.

Unvote Vote: Erratus Apathos

You obviously don't understand what breadcrumbing is.

EBWOP because my quote tags came out messed up

I'm not sure I get how Erratus's post could be construed as "breadcrumming" (sic) ... mind explaining that one?

I'm just trying to get a pressure wagon going on someone so we can do as you suggested below, rather than simply saying "we should move past the random voting stage now" and doing nothing about it. You've basically just ensured that no wagon will form.

And I also think we can probably move past the "random voting" since we're on page three.

FoS: Massive

for being anti-scumhunting

As I mentioned, this post is weird. What massive said was not the least bit "anti-scumhunting".

What's wrong with taking anything seriously? You can take something seriously and still have fun with it. I'd be concerned about anyone who is able to coast through a game without making a serious attempt at scum hunting. It's in the town's best interests to take a few things seriously and it's in the scum's best interests not to.

It's just that you take

everything

so seriously. The other game we're both in is indicating to me that it's a playstyle thing, but it is nonetheless weird.

dcorbe's q21 vote is OMGUSy and not particularly well-founded. His EA vote was actually based on a tell, not an "anti-scumhunting attitude", even if EA's "slip-up" isn't the greatest tell ever.

roflcopter's post 80, except for the part about me, is 100% correct. EA's reaction is becoming a lot more revealing than the tell itself. EA is getting really pissed off about this, which I know is a tell for me. I realize I'm sort-of going back on my initial reason for voting EA here, but events today have made me think this tell isn't all that reliable.

And if I've done something that supposedly 100% of people who do are scum, then why in the hell would you be uncomfortable putting me at L-whatever? If town Kuribo was really 100% certain I was scum, he'd have no reason not to vote me even if he was hammering. And it's not even relevant how close I am to lynch, since when you first brought up your allegedly 100% scumtell I wasn't anywhere near lynch.

This is silliness. He's not 100% sure, obviously.

If he were lynched right now and flipped town it would likely be scum hammering

That's a dangerous assumption. Scum might not be so reckless.

I think I like my vote where it is, and this EA/kuribo thing is providing a lot of information. Please, continue.

[dcorbe]

@Cephrir:

I do understand what bredcrumbing is. In the context of mafia it means to hint at your role or alignment. Is that not what he's doing?

If he were lynched right now and flipped town it would likely be scum hammering

So would you not find it suspicious if two more people were to hop on the wagon right now? If scum wouldn't be that careless then he's in no danger of being lynched, now is he? What reason would a townie have to hammer him so early in the game?

dcorbe's q21 vote is OMGUSy and not particularly well-founded. His EA vote was actually based on a tell, not an "anti-scumhunting attitude", even if EA's "slip-up" isn't the greatest tell ever.

I gave justification for my vote. Just because it was in response to him voting for me doesn't make it OMGUSy. Look up the definition of the term.

The rest of your post seems to be attacking me for wagoning someone. You've admitted that his wagon is producing useful information in some respect, at least with is interaction with kurbio anyways.

Oh and as far as this is concerned:

As I mentioned, this post is weird. What massive said was not the least bit "anti-scumhunting".

It's quite "anti-scumhunting" to sit there and preach about how I'm wagoning baselessly and then proclaim that it's time to "move past the "random voting" since we're on page three." offering NOTHING to help further that cause.

I've already explained what my stance is on early wagoning, so I'm not going to go through that process again.

[Cephrir]

I do understand what bredcrumbing is. In the context of mafia it means to hint at your role or alignment. Is that not what he's doing?

Well yeah, but you wouldn't breadcrumb being scum.

So would you not find it suspicious if two more people were to hop on the wagon right now? If scum wouldn't be that careless then he's in no danger of being lynched, now is he? What reason would a townie have to hammer him so early in the game?

Well yeah, it'd be suspicious, but survival is more important to scum thanit is to town, and any halfway decent player knows an early hammer will be suspicious. It depends on the situation, really. In many cases what you said is a fine policy, others not so much.

The rest of your post seems to be attacking me for wagoning someone. You've admitted that his wagon is producing useful information in some respect, at least with is interaction with kurbio anyways.

Not attacking, just questioning. OMGUS doesn't have to be baseless, hence the -y at the end. Your suspicions are magnified by the fact that he's attacking you, IMO, bcause I see far more merit in an EA vote ATM and can't see why you'd switch over something that, in my mind, wasn't a big deal. As to the wagon producing useful info- fair enough.

It's quite "anti-scumhunting" to sit there and preach about how I'm wagoning baselessly and then proclaim that it's time to "move past the "random voting" since we're on page three." offering NOTHING to help further that cause.

He's not being

against

scumhunting, he's just

not

. Nonetheless, I get what you meant now.

Also, contrary to how this post appears, I don't think you're scum.

[roflcopter]

dcorbe, next time you say that nobody is trying to lynch the guy who's been wagoned to lynch-2, go dunk your head in cold water and realign your conceptions of reality. i for one never vote for someone outside of random voting that I don't want to see lynched.

[Erratus Apathos]

I also mentioned the small sample size, if you'll recall. I never said that YOU were 100% scum, I said that 100% of the people who made the same mistake in games that I've played were also scum.

You've been making these two points against me all day: One, that all people who assume three scum are always scum, and two, that I assumed three scum. How in the hell can you claim those two points to be true without also concluding that I am 100% scum? What other possible conclusion can you derive from those two points?

And to any townie giving so much as a modicum of serious thought to the "anger = scumtell" non-logic, YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO PLAY MAFIA. Of god damn course I'm upset at the prospect of my lynch! My lynch decreases my chances of winning,

re****inggardless of my role

! Really what does my reaction to my wagon prove... that I'm not a jester? And with this crowd I probably actually have to prove there's no jester, because if I just took it for granted that there's not a jester it would be attributed to setup knowledge, rather than to a valid assumption based on the vast bloody majority of games in the format. Someone let me know if the game of logic I signed up for starts, because this sure as **** isn't one.

MOD EDIT - Please keep the bad language away.. I don't WANT to have to do any more serious about it.

Also, I changed only the swearing to stars... nothing else.