Newbie 2083: Viae Romanae - End!
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Looker theStenographerthe
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Val89 HeMafia ScumHe
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[area="Also, explain how the PoE is opened further" - "So was it a foregone conclusion that T3 was getting eliminated or not?"]PoE was given by two slots at that point, on D2, as as T3 -> Looker. I think it's pretty obvious that prompts the chain of thought that "OK, if perhaps someone other than T3 gets limmed today, maybe I can still survive past D3."
At that point, when you posted your readslist, T3 getting limmed wasn't a "foregone conclusion". Doing anything other townreading T3 at that point would have been bad for your survival.
By the time of the hammer, however, I think it was pretty clear that T3 was going to be the lim with or without your vote and attention was turning to why you were townreading T3. You've been pretty consistant today that you didn't have any reason for townreading T3 apart from 'the playerlist around him', 'process of elimination', or whatever you call it. I would have hammered there as scum too. Yeah, it appears on the surface to be a pretty poor play in that it has drawn my attention; but it looks like you chose the lesser of two evils in the hope that it might be forgotten about overnight.[/area]
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Val89 HeMafia ScumHe
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Well, Occams Razor says it's because you are scum. That's my point. It's one heck of a co-indicence that your reads have changed to match the exact scum path to victory otherwise, no?In post 799, Looker wrote:Why is everything I do "exactly" what scum need to win the game?
I was?!?!?! That's news to me.In post 799, Looker wrote:You were proven wrong in 761
Your read on fixer has changed now, then? There is literally only one scum remaining. I think Mbot and Kenny are both town. I think they were both spewed as much by Koba D1. I think the possibility that either of those are scum, and they and Koba were running some deliberate WIFOMy distancing plan which involves using the sheeping power Koba openly had to point the FoS at each other is so slim to belong in the realm of tinfoil. I think you are the final scum - I think floatingmay looks good for Koba's partner, and your actions on D2 and the lim you are trying to achieve now makes perfect sense as coming from scum, but not so much from town. Fixer hasn't given a lot to work with, and it worried me for a while, but what he has given hasn't pinged me as scummy, particulary today. It's done the opposite.In post 799, Looker wrote:It makes more sense that a town!Looker, town!fixer elimination sequence wins the game, and that's what it looks like has been set up to take place. If you were any good at your job (assuming you're town), you'd be dead already, and seeing as you appear to be the weaker of the two between yourself and MBot, I have to assume she's the scum.
Unless anything has changed since they both last posted, I think Mbot and Kenny have both been pretty consistent in that they also think the final scum is in you or fixer. Fixer is voting you. He doesn't appear to be gearing up to jump on the Mbot wagon, either, or try garner support for a wagon elsewhere, as I would expect scum!fixer to do. The fact that, as you say, the most likely lim tomorrow after a town!Looker flip looks like might well be fixer given the public statements by the remaining three slots, and fixer is still ready for a Looker lim makes it look very much to me like we are dealing with a town!fixer who actually beleives you are scum and the game is over with your flip, rather than a scum!fixer angling for a mislim.
I am sorry, but I am not following the argument that me being alive means Mbot is scum in the slightest, even trying to view it through the assumption that you are town.
Yes.In post 800, Looker wrote:Does 89 mean you were born in 89?-
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kennyk Goon
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Sorry, for not posting for so long. Real life hit me, but I am back.
So reading all the new posts and the sometimes confusing discussion between Val89 and looker (at least for me right now), I feel more confident in eliminating looker. One thing I am quite sure about is, that looker is not the second mason. At E-1 and with my statement about voting either him or fixer out the only hope to survive for a mason!looker would have been to claim it. I am not sure if I would have believed it. But it didn't happen. Ergo he is most likely not the mason.-
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kennyk Goon
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So I reread some posts and I am now at a point where I would like to cast the final vote of today.
In the now infamous post 677 (couldn't it have been 11 posts before? ) there were three players on lookers positive side (MBot, T3 and Val89) and three on the negative (fixer, yeezyz and I). Yeezyz was NKed. Looker now votes his top read from that list. He hammered his second pick and is in a heavy infight with his third. If I read everything correctly and am not misinterpreting things, the two remaining "baddies" are now at least null reads, but I don't see, how we got this upgrade.
Allthough it might look like I am shutting down a conversation, I will
VOTE: looker
I hope I nailed it.-
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fferyllt Titan of Trajectory
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fferyllt Titan of Trajectory
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Looker was aVanilla Townie.
Night 2 begins now and will end in (expired on 2021-12-06 21:00:00)-
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fferyllt Titan of Trajectory
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fixer died last night. He was aTown Mason.-
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fferyllt Titan of Trajectory
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kennyk Goon
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Just a quick thought on what happened before I start to work.
On our last day I really thought "Wouldn't it be a plot twist, if we elimed looker and fixer is than NKed (or the other way around)? That would leave two really perplexed players and a scum. But after what was posted scum would change the odds in towns favour. So if either Val or MBot is scum, they sure wouldn't do that." But as it seems, one of you did.
A reevaluation will follow after work and after my third vaccination (hopefully this one won't knock me out like the first two).-
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Val89 HeMafia ScumHe
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MBot Townie
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MBot Townie
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Val89 HeMafia ScumHe
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I hate F3s with a passion. This one, particulary, since I really just don't know and it feels like basically a coin flip.
I did get a sense reading back is that both of you were essentially content with letting me do all the legwork yesterday, and, knowing now I was off-base with Looker, I am feeling decidely uncomfortable about being the useful idiot again today.
We've had two Mason deaths back-to-back, but I'm still scratching my head about that first kill, and can't find an explantion for it which makes sense for either scum. Istilldon't follow whatever Looker was trying to tell us about me being alive pointing to Mbot being scum. I thought, after Lookers flip, and thus confirmation that floatingmay was actually town, that conversation between them and Koba that made me raise an eyebrow seemed to make a bit more sense, but then Koba says in the middle of it, in 316 "Although I do agree on kenny."
Clearly, I ought not to have ruled it out as quickly as I did, but the idea we could have had two competing scum wagons on D1, with both partners cross-voting each other, is an idea that is just completely wild to me, as is the idea that Mbot hammered her scum buddy D1, with about 20 minitues left on the clock, instead of just staying off-line and allowing a no-lim to happen. I'm totally lost, and I know full well anyone meta-ing me in the future is going to point to this game as evidence I have no idea what scum actually does, despite me catching one out the gate. Just fuck this game.-
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MBot Townie
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Val, I'm right there with you. My last game I town cleared someone based on confirmed ability use and I was absolutely wrong. The person I WKd for was scum and we lost the game. The issue I'm dealing with now is that if me or the other town vote wrong, the scummybshit head is just going to come in and end the game. Fist bump to the scumbucket who made it this far but seriously F you. Props but damn... after reading the posts again I will bow to Val if he's scum and played that offended at Kobas shinanigans.-
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fferyllt Titan of Trajectory
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kennyk has been prodded.-
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kennyk Goon
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I am sorry for not posting earlier. But first my granddad unexpectedly had to go to the hospital and some things needed to be dealt with and then the side effects of my vaccination kicked in. The fever is gone, but I am still not feeling too good. So the announced deep investigation still has to wait.-
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kennyk Goon
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If only it was a coin flip. Assuming randomness each of the two townies has a 50 % chance to vote scum or town. The chances for both to hit scum is just 25 %. I would clearly prefer a coin flip.In post 813, Val89 wrote:I hate F3s with a passion. This one, particulary, since I really just don't know and it feels like basically a coin flip.-
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kennyk Goon
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The worst thing is, that we all had good reasons to read the other two as townies. But one reason I had Val on my townlist is one I didn't mention before, because I didn't want to help scum. I really had Val as the second mason. The reason why is the following post:
For me it suggested, that Val knew, that Koba couldn't be a mason, because he himself had a power role. This obviously is not the case, so in my personal provisional ranking he is now in the bottom position. Also, I don't believe in a "scum hammering scum on D1 30 minutes before deadline"-scenario is likely. So right now I am leaning more on a scum!Val89 than a scum!MBot, but I won't vote before a deeper look into things.In post 341, Val89 wrote:Is it usual practise to openly discuss who may or may not be a PR on the other sites you have played on, kenny?
I think if a town PR were to counterclaim in response to Kobes 'softclaims', if that's what they were, that would be somewhat of a own-gaol in that Koba would likely just say "haha, I wasn't claiming mason, just messing around", and we have an outted PR on D1 with a target on their back for what? Does Koba get eliminated anyway? Drawing a CC while still maintaining some doubt about whether Koba wastryingto do so might well be the motivation for doing that, and you aren't helping.
If that's your only reason for reading Koba town, I would strongly suggest you reconsider.-
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fferyllt Titan of Trajectory
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Val89 has been prodded.-
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Val89 HeMafia ScumHe
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I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. At the time of post 341, I had no idea what type of game we were dealing with. I think it's fairly obvious my intent with that post was to signal to our PRs that theyIn post 818, kennyk wrote:For me it suggested, that Val knew, that Koba couldn't be a mason, because he himself had a power role.shouldn'tclaim, since the potential scum motivation for a scum!Koba playing as they were was...well, exactly as I spell out in that post.
Seeing that it turned out we were in a Mason game, and it seems apparent that scum deduced that and took out the masons N2 and N3, I went back to have a look at Andres' ISO to see if they said anything to suggest they could have been a mason partner, and perhaps that would explain that kill. I couldn't find anything to suggest that, but while I was re-reading that ISO, something else came out quite strongly - that Andres was, while pretty strongly arguing for a town!Koba, also the loudest voice in suspecting Kenny.
That completely passed over my head previously because I spent D2 and D3 assuming kenny was town because of the cross-wagon thing I refered to in my previous post, and I was suprised by that kill becausefound Andres scummy because of the first part. I appear to have made the mistake again of reading events in the game through whatIIknow and think. I wouldn't have made that kill in kenny's shoes, because with a Koba scum flip, it's quite possible that Andres would have reconsidered their read on kenny, but the weakness in my game is obviously making the mistake of assuming scum would do or not do something because of how I would play as scum; and perhaps a scum!kenny did think taking out Andres there was the play.
There is no way I am voting there yet, however. I am still uncomfortable that both of the remaining slots hung back somewhat yesterday (although kenny a little moreso than Mbot, to be totally fair) and scum obviously let me run off and do the dirty work for them with looker - I'm not rushing into following my first thoughts and risk repeating that.
I'm going on a little roadtrip this weekend, but I shall return Monday.
@Mod: Please consider me V/LA until then.-
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fferyllt Titan of Trajectory
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In post 820, Val89 wrote:@Mod: Please consider me V/LA until then.V/LA acknowledged.
MBot has been prodded.-
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MBot Townie
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I was so sure that Kenny was the other mason based on Yeezys interactions and lack if pressure towards them. All I have to go on is Val vs Kenny interactions with Koba. After reading through ISOs I would give scum if the year award to Val if all of that was fake. Kenny's lack of pressure or even interaction with Koba stands out as odd.
Koba held their vote on Kenny without any reasons behind it. Probably in case of vote analyzing later. No reaction or questions from Kenny and the only interactions Koba directly had with Kenny was very superficial.
In post 207, DkKoba wrote:
What are your actual thoughts on the game?In post 204, kennyk wrote:
Post 147 might look a bit overexplained but I have experienced some other games where posts meant to be funny were taken serious. So I thought better safe than sorry and explained it.In post 202, floatingmay wrote:overexplaining in 147; 148 sounds kind of detached (?); 148 and 165 contain math
Post 148 (you got the wrong post linked there btw.) I don't know what you mean with detached.
Post 165 contains a little math. Math is what got me to playing mafia in the first place (over at greylabyrinth more than 15 years ago). So if using mathematical evidence looks scummy for you I add up 2 and 2 and point a finger of suspicion in your direction.
In post 208, DkKoba wrote:
why is kenny towny to you?In post 206, fixer wrote:aw man sorry for not posting, i forgot to come on here for a bit but I've caught up with mostly everything right now
i might respond to some previous posts in the next few hours but I'd like to state my reads first! i have a small feeling there's a mafia between Mbot/Koba, although its not very a very strong feeling so it'll definitely change. i'm nullreading may, val, ssbm, and andre atm.
kenny & yeezys strike me as more towny honestly, i don't really get a pure scum vibe from either of them yet. although i get how kenny's over explaining could be counted as scummy, being cautious with their posts and not trying to be painted in a bad light too early on, their math makes sense to me for the most part and i dont really mind it. im leaning more towards town on them. yeezy's activity and consistently wanting reads/discussion wouldn't be scum behavior imo, it could be used to establish a towny presence early on and be more lenient as scum later, i feel like there's others who could be more scummy than these twoThey switched their vote to Fixer and that was it. Kenny also only voted three times the entire game, one being the RVS and the other two being T3 to E1 and then hammering Looker. Their posts also read extremely careful.
I won't cast a vote just yet but I'm planting my guillotine on Kenny.-
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kennyk Goon
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I wanted to start my reacp of this game with something that wasn't subjective and so it was going to be a little vote analysis.
Here are all the votes by the remaining players and DkKoba our only confirmed scummy. I will add the votecount before each vote and a short version of the reason for each vote. Hopefully I didn't miss any vote or didn't mess up with the votecounts. Admittedly I am to lazy to link every post.
Spoiler: Day 1
Spoiler: Day 2
Spoiler: Day 3-
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kennyk Goon
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So with the raw data from my last post, one can very well see, that I didn't just vote three times. I voted four times. The same amount of votes you cast, MBot. You missed my vote on Koba. As you can see, it was the third vote on her at that time and it stayed there until you hammered.
Koba on the other hand casted her vote around on nearly everyone (all except yeezys and floatingmay/Looker).
And by the way, there was more posts between Koba and me apart from those you quoted. You totally missed out those who led to my vote on Koba.
I have to ask you this: are you deliberately trying to shade me here in order to convince Val89 to vote me?
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