so what you're saying is that "strategic bastardy" is so nebulous it isn't worth the effort to pin it down?In post 49, Jingle wrote:I dislike this definition immensely, FWIW.
Watcher is a completely reasonable role, for example, that punishes scum for making a nk on a strong, widely townread player, which I'd assume basically everyone would agree would be considered solid play. FTC is an interaction where what is normally bad play (a cop claiming early) is instead rewarded. Neither of these are anywhere near bastard imo, or even nonnormal. Even ignoring these cases and ones like it, 'bad strategies' is such a nebulous concept that it's incredibly difficult to nail down, as you admit. Is slayer's gambit a bad strategy? Is faking a guilty a bad strategy? Is active lurking a bad strategy? Is page 1 lolhammering a bad strategy? Is hipfiring a dayvig a bad strategy? Is D1 massclaim a bad strategy? I certainly have opinions on all of these, but none of them are objectively facts.
And for what it's worth, I think most of what you're describing as strategic bastardry falls under my label of "requiring more mechanical thought than a general game". Should I as a cop have a reason to doubt that my cop result is actually an inno/guilty? Should I as a tracker assume I saw the NK? Should I as a neighbor assume that there isn't a way for someone in the thread to access the neighborhood later or that there isn't someone with access that I'm simply unaware of? These are the kinds of considerations that don't happen in every game, but definitely have their place in some games. (Hell, I prefer games where you can't rule out weird roles like PT spies or redirectors, because they make mechanical solving less reliable and unfun.)
The intent is for stuff that either makes objectively terrible strategies good or good strategies objectively terrible. A setup where setup spec is required to play well.
and stuff like RNG, known holes in information that should be known, divulged non-randomness, and heavy flavor matters need to have a bastard toggle.
"requires more mechanical thought than a general game" doesn't seem like a good bastardy toggle to me - the stuff I wanted to be marked as "strategically bastard" would be stuff that you never want to see in a Normal game because it would make the game play very unlike a Normal game.