Mini Normal 2267 | Music Hits of 2010-2014 | GAME OVER

[angela]

Every next Day Phase lasts 7 days (168 hours), except for the phase in which the town faction should find themselves in ELo (“eliminate or lose”) should that happen in the course of this game – that Day Phase will last 5 days (120 hours).

is vengeful

a normal role?

[angela]

It is. Not sure how that relates to the part of the rules you quoted, but I very much believe so.

won't the timer tell us if we have a vengeful?

[angela]

It is. Not sure how that relates to the part of the rules you quoted, but I very much believe so.

won't the timer tell us if we have a vengeful?

It shouldn’t, no.

but isn't it not actually elo if there's a vengeful

like 7 alive 3 mafia 1 vengeful

is only elo if we count eliminating the vengeful as part of 'eliminating correctly'

which is generally not the interpretation of eliminating correctly, which would be eliminating mafia

so would likely be 7 days at timer with 7 alive 3 mafia 1 vengeful instead of 5

but also unlikely to be relevant, so

[angela]

hi angela!!!!

hello friend +)

[angela]

hi angela!!!!

hello friend +)

^______^


i am town this time r u? :3

i am town! isis is jealous of how often i roll town

[angela]

angela I’m not going to lie - I find your concern for disclosure around a Vengeful role Scummy. The impact from there being a Vengeful role in the game is that the Scum can’t be certain that a coordinated hammer would end the game in what’s presumed to be ELo. Other than that, there’s no true downside for Town unless the Vengeful Town, if it exists, shoots incorrectly prior to Endgame. At Endgame, there isn’t much of a downside to shooting incorrectly since the game would’ve been lost if their role didn’t exist.

Having said that, I suspect you would have asked your Scum buddies these questions outside of this thread, so perhaps too brazen for Scum. I just don’t think this conversation is helpful for the Town.

it is something that interested me about the rules and i wanted to see if you'd engage with it because you had just mentioned the rules and i found it unlikely enough for it to actually be the case here to feel there was any risk to discuss

and!

it gives the mafias something to potentially worry about

[angela]

hi morning tweet

[angela]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

this game is hoppin

i mean,

it's not like either of you have adopted a particularly proactive sorting role here?

which would kinda be the expected next step from

'hm, the game seems to be moving slower than i'd prefer,'

yeah?

like at least nero cain has shared some thoughts on the game

[angela]

I have rolled Town 96.2% of the time on this forum. Unbeatable.

Is that including this game?

just to clarify,This is the question I would like answered. Not Galron

could you maybe put to words why?

like what can be gained from this/have you checked the math yourself/would it mean anything if it was untruthful

can wait until andres responds i guess if you'd like

but i don't really get it

[angela]

like what can be gained from this/have you checked the math yourself/would it mean anything if it was untruthful

or what this game being included vs this game not being included would mean in terms of alignment and so forth

[angela]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

this game is hoppin

i mean,

it's not like either of you have adopted a particularly proactive sorting role here?

which would kinda be the expected next step from

'hm, the game seems to be moving slower than i'd prefer,'

yeah?

like at least nero cain has shared some thoughts on the game

though i guess it is also possible that nero's zzzzzzzzzzzzz was implying boredom with being voted for what seemed to be a tongue in cheek music comment and i misinterpreted it at first

hm

[angela]

i have no thoughts as of yet

that will change

guess i don't really understand the purpose of 'this game is hoppin' then

but it's not like much purpose can be assigned to many of my posts, so

shrug

[angela]

because I was going to lead into my analogy of Roulette at a casino. They tell you what numbers have fallen and people use that to "predict" what numbers will come next.

But probability states that the past rolls have zero bearing on the next one, meaning you could be town in 99% of your games up to thins one, but that means nothing this time around.

Does that help?

hm

taking the long road to gambler's fallacy i see

[angela]

because I was going to lead into my analogy of Roulette at a casino. They tell you what numbers have fallen and people use that to "predict" what numbers will come next.

But probability states that the past rolls have zero bearing on the next one, meaning you could be town in 99% of your games up to thins one, but that means nothing this time around.

Does that help?

hm

taking the long road to gambler's fallacy i see

i guess it doesn't really seem like andres was trying to say

'i am town here because i was town in the past' regardless of whether andres was or was not including self in the % which i haven't checked on and may have also been made up

as much as mentioning it in a way that seemed to come up more or less naturally to me

[angela]

at least to me

[angela]

for greeting since the namesake of this account is in the video:

[angela]

VOTE: angela

any chance you’re going to put words to this

or

?

[angela]

angela I’m not going to lie - I find your concern for disclosure around a Vengeful role Scummy. The impact from there being a Vengeful role in the game is that the Scum can’t be certain that a coordinated hammer would end the game in what’s presumed to be ELo. Other than that, there’s no true downside for Town unless the Vengeful Town, if it exists, shoots incorrectly prior to Endgame. At Endgame, there isn’t much of a downside to shooting incorrectly since the game would’ve been lost if their role didn’t exist.

Having said that, I suspect you would have asked your Scum buddies these questions outside of this thread, so perhaps too brazen for Scum. I just don’t think this conversation is helpful for the Town.

Dunno about anyone else but got a bit of a weird vibe from these two posts in sequence. Andre goes in on Angela potentially being mafia, but then very much appears to walk it back almost immediately afterwards as if wary they've perhaps gone in too heavily for such an early point in the game.

I found it weird that post 25 and post 27 were so pointed..

I don’t even know if everyone had popped in yet..

hm

would you expect andresvmb to wait for everyone to post first?

[angela]

I'm town though

do you

think it is noteworthy that pooky would suggest policying you now?

/

do you

think anything noteworthy has happened so far?

[angela]

angela, NM isn't going to do anything regardless of alignment.

i have played with not mafia before (and you!) i just feel like

like like like

not mafia's not doing anything is often compounded by no one expecting not mafia to do anything

or encouraging not mafia or engaging not mafia

like if i were clever maybe i could have thought of a good response to not mafia's request to be bought dinner first

that maybe not mafia would have thought was clever enough to answer the question

and maybe that answer possibly would have been alignment relevant

but i couldn't think of anything that even i thought might be funny let alone something i would expect someone else to think was funny

[angela]

ehhhhhhhh

pretty opposed to policying not mafia for being not mafia

and the shoshin thing is in super super icky territory

[angela]

and also we have forever on day and can worry about

like

default eliminations or whatever much later with far more information if completely necessary

[angela]

is it really icky if its true

i mean, at the very least it is really icky for shoshin to be doing so if true

[angela]

could you maybe put to words why?

like what can be gained from this/have you checked the math yourself/would it mean anything if it was untruthful

can wait until andres responds i guess if you'd like

but i don't really get it

because I was going to lead into my analogy of Roulette at a casino. They tell you what numbers have fallen and people use that to "predict" what numbers will come next.

But probability states that the past rolls have zero bearing on the next one, meaning you could be town in 99% of your games up to thins one, but that means nothing this time around.

Does that help?

Exactly. It's the Gambler's Fallacy. While flipping a coin and it landing on heads 100 times in a row is very unlikely, the coin has no memory and each flip has a 50/50 chance of being heads.

okay but where was anyone saying that the coin had a memory?

like now both of you are assigning a narrative to a post that is kinda hard for me to see

[angela]

I don't like how X-1 is removed from the game

hm

i don’t really like the hammers but i kinda do like the effect their potential can have on the game at times

like everyone should be way more cautious about e-2, e-1 wagons than they are generally

[angela]

No people are far too cautious about building wagons, it's why I quickhammer

…

it’s just like

less likely to hit mafias

and!

gives mafia opportunities

and!

ends the day

[angela]

No people are far too cautious about building wagons, it's why I quickhammer

also your doing so only really encourages the mafias to be less cautious (though they’d have to be sneaky about this) and towns to be more cautious in general

though i have seen enough towns try to use you as a pseudo double vote in certain situations to know that not everyone views this the way i do

[angela]

like now both of you are assigning a narrative to a post that is kinda hard for me to see

incorrect. I am not assigning anything. Please don't associate a concept(oushing a narrative) that I am not doing with me. You asked me to clarify a question and then I answered. I was just trying to make a point.

What's concerning to me is that you have made N_M's existence in this game the focal point of

your

narrative.
Most of us already know what to expect, and in they're own way it does look like they are trying moreso than usual.


What they do sets them up to be perfectly hidden scum in any way and I think that,s the point. comes of as a person that just enjoys ending people's experience, for better or for worse.
"Well N_M hammered"
"N_M always hammers"

This is the last I'll really comment on it unless prompted, but N_M's existence in this game should not be being analyzed so deeply.

i mean, trying to apply a fallacy to a post that doesn’t seem present in said post feels like assigning to me

? i asked not mafia two questions then clarified that i was familiar with not mafia and that the not mafia elimination others were suggesting seemed eh to me at this time; how is that the focal point of my narrative?

[angela]

also, why is that concerning to you? like what would be the scum motivation for me to do so, like this doesn’t really feel like it’s any evaluation of what i’m doing

[angela]

actually i think you and kittytacky are town so i guess i have thoughts

Are you going to give us some insight into these “thoughts”?

quoting this so i don’t forget it happened

[angela]

? i asked not mafia two questions then clarified that i was familiar with not mafia and that the not mafia elimination others were suggesting seemed eh to me at this time; how is that the focal point of my narrative?

I'm town though

do you

think it is noteworthy that pooky would suggest policying you now?

/

do you

think anything noteworthy has happened so far?

angela, NM isn't going to do anything regardless of alignment.

i have played with not mafia before (and you!) i just feel like

like like like

not mafia's not doing anything is often compounded by no one expecting not mafia to do anything

or encouraging not mafia or engaging not mafia

like if i were clever maybe i could have thought of a good response to not mafia's request to be bought dinner first

that maybe not mafia would have thought was clever enough to answer the question

and maybe that answer possibly would have been alignment relevant

but i couldn't think of anything that even i thought might be funny let alone something i would expect someone else to think was funny

ehhhhhhhh

pretty opposed to policying not mafia for being not mafia

and the shoshin thing is in super super icky territory

No people are far too cautious about building wagons, it's why I quickhammer

…

it’s just like

less likely to hit mafias

and!

gives mafia opportunities

and!

ends the day

No people are far too cautious about building wagons, it's why I quickhammer

also your doing so only really encourages the mafias to be less cautious (though they’d have to be sneaky about this) and towns to be more cautious in general

though i have seen enough towns try to use you as a pseudo double vote in certain situations to know that not everyone views this the way i do

Perhaps it's not entirely your focal point, but it 's been a good portion of your content so far. I'm not pushing it as AI at this point, just merely pointing it out,and responding to you telling me I'm doing the same.

sorry for quoting everything; phone

i don’t understand why you think these are comparable things?

like it felt to me like you’re saying andresvmb was possibly doing something and i don’t really see that something at all, which isn’t similar to my interactions with/about not mafia at all?

it’s also strange to me that you say you are opposed to not mafia policy elimination, which is what half-ish of my posts about not mafia were about, but you also are opposed to me talking about not mafia?

like

…

?

[angela]

sorry for quoting everything; phone

i don’t understand why you think these are comparable things?

like it felt to me like you’re saying andresvmb was possibly doing something and i don’t really see that something at all, which isn’t similar to my interactions with/about not mafia at all?

it’s also strange to me that you say you are opposed to not mafia policy elimination, which is what half-ish of my posts about not mafia were about, but you also are opposed to me talking about not mafia?

like

…

?

whoa you are pretty good a twisting words,so we'll use less

-I asked Andres a simple question,then decided to respond to you instead of waiting for them. I'm impatient.
-I am against a N_M Policy LIM(sorry)
-You keep saying you "are not seeing" what I'm saying they are foing,I'm not I just asked 1 single question . There is nothing to see,move along,making a mountain out of a molehill here..

i am not twisting words though?

- i mean, yeah I asked the question and am also impatient; i get that. i still don’t really get how gamblers fallacy applies to the andresvmb post though, explaining this to me would go a long way

- ???? i am also opposed to a not mafia policy elimination and said so explicitly ???? and yet you are questioning me saying so? like it doesn’t really add up

-

[angela]

like the answers to questions don’t interest me as much as the thought processes and i am not currently following yours

which given i am not very good at communication and that could definitely be on me

but that’s why i am currently stuck on this

[angela]

ehhhhhhhh

pretty opposed to policying not mafia for being not mafia

and the shoshin thing is in super super icky territory

my previously stated opposition to the not mafia policy elimination, which you also quoted

[angela]

right like

- i say i am opposed to not mafia policy elimination and talk about that some more/things that led into
- you say you are opposed to not mafia policy elimination
- you then say it is potentially noteworthy that i am talking about not mafia though?

like it just feels like, ‘look at this!’ to me and not ‘oh this could be something’

[angela]

I also stated previously That I'm not really used to there being so much taken out of what used to be an RVS.. This an adjustment for me.

I've been playing mafia for years and this is like the {REDACTED} game I've played with this pseudo RVS..

it is always possible that i am being unfair in interactions -

it is very difficult for me to weigh things like the above -

and i appreciate you giving this sort of context even if i don’t really know how to apply it

like for me i don’t really rvs nor understand rvs

so i get that we don’t have the same view of things

but i also don’t know how to figure out if my worries are because of those differences or because of alignment differences without these sorts of interactions

[angela]

I just feel content revolving around a PE and N_M specifically can be easily manufactured..
I'm just not articulating what I'm trying to say correctly, I'm also half distracted at work..

me too! and i am a mess regardless of level of distraction so if you feel issue is in communication please say

angela! please stop for a second!! i think we are misunderstanding eachother!!!

or something along those lines

[angela]

I just feel content revolving around a PE and N_M specifically can be easily manufactured..
I'm just not articulating what I'm trying to say correctly, I'm also half distracted at work..

me too! and i am a mess regardless of level of distraction so if you feel issue is in communication please say

angela! please stop for a second!! i think we are misunderstanding eachother!!!

or something along those lines

or even if you think i am having a similar issue in interaction with someone else

stopping me and explaining what you think is being communicated is always good

as things being worded multiple ways from multiple perspectives infinitely valuable to me in understanding others

also sorry to be potential cause of frustration during work +(

[angela]

I do not get Galron's line of questioning to gera in 151

I"m not seeing what you're referring to.

i think morning tweet was referring to 185

[angela]

but there isn't much by way of specific reads

hm, but would you expect there to be in that conversation?

and is having 'specific reads' (and sharing them at random i guess?) something you've come to expect from town!me?

like why is that something you think would differentiate that conversation as something that would make it more likely a town/town conversation, is what i am trying to ask

[angela]

VOTE: kittytacky

VOTE: morning tweet

kinda think both of these votes were pretty okay

[angela]

They both sound earnest, I'll give you that, but there isn't much by way of specific reads. Although I guess I"m the one who started the Not_Mafia policy discussion, or at least contributed to it, and that kind of led into their conversation. But even with that, it could be an opportunity for two mafia to have a back and forth.

mmm need to look at this closer in general tomorrow

it just doesn't really feel like you would think that that is what it might look for if we were two mafia taking the opportunity to have a back and forth

but idk

[angela]

This entire exchange is bizarre but I'm fairly sure angela and Scorpious are not both scum at least. Smells slightly of TvT.

It's a gut read. Not a strong one but it reads more like a town misunderstanding than mafia trying to discredit someone. And in any case it's very hard to see it as SvS.

i know a lot of people have already commented on this but

it is like

the misunderstanding and such you are referring to is largely about a post that you agreed with and scorpious felt i was mischaracterizing, yes? but you also didn't really explain why you agreed with it and felt that andresvmb was possibly presenting town% as a gamblers fallacy

like if i tilt my head feels kinda like buddying and if i tilt my head the other way feels kinda like potential partners

because it isn't like isolated 'this is townvtown'

[angela]

203-206

feels kinda hmmmmmmmmmmm

like save the dragons was literally moving vote from morning tweet to rathe there

but there seems to be like

none of the expected resolution of the morning tweet vote from either side?

like it just seems to be forgotten due to rathe posts?

[angela]

VOTE: KT

hm

are you thinking, {not mafia, kittytacky, scorpious}

or

do you think kittytacky more likely trying to pocket scorpious by doing the aligning self with thing (though scorpious also didn't seem suspicious of kittytacky doing this,

but it would also be completely possible that town!scorpious would think kittytacky happened to be aligning with simply because agreed with and if town!scorpious then might even lean towards town!kittytacky based on this

and! also doesn't seem impossible that that is the correct interpretation anyway)

or

do you just think kittytacky independently scummy

[angela]

i

hm

thoughts on morning tweet?

[angela]

i guess maybe i am asking you to look at this:

203-206

feels kinda hmmmmmmmmmmm

like save the dragons was literally moving vote from morning tweet to rathe there

but there seems to be like

none of the expected resolution of the morning tweet vote from either side?

like it just seems to be forgotten due to rathe posts?

for me more than anything else if you will pretty please

but also any other morning tweet related thoughts are welcome of course

[angela]

VOTE: kittytacky

VOTE: morning tweet

kinda think both of these votes were pretty okay

Whack

i didn't mean it as in 'i would have also made those votes'

but rather 'i could see why town might make that vote there'

though kinda more worried about the save the dragons vote now as i have read what followed and such

[angela]

Like I really don't see why saying "this is likely TvT" is scummy.

do you

think any of the people who have shared their thoughts on this

are likely to be mafias though?

like do any of them stand out to you specifically/what ways do they differ from the others that you think might be more likely to be scums?

[angela]

like do any of them stand out to you specifically/what ways do they differ from the others that you think might be more likely to be scums?

more likely to come from scums*

sorry, tired

[angela]

(i would also be curious about your opinion of the save the dragons thing/why you didn't find save the dragons voting you/moving vote off of you noteworthy and such)

[angela]

This is a moot point.

This is the last time I’m accepting N_M conversation as potential town content..

Anything beyond this will be considered scum filler by me. There is way to much discussion about a slot many of us know is kinda just there. Deal with it…

As I said. NOTHING they do is AI.. expect a quick hammer, maybe a quip or two(sometimes insightful) and a “mum” Joke here an there. that’s it …

No more N_M discussion please, unless it’s to vote.

but

how are you planning on sorting not mafia though?

are you just not? and you think that should be everyone's approach?

like not everyone talking about not mafia can possibly be mafia, so if your issue is that you think scums are likely hiding in that discussion, then having more discussion would help you identify those individuals, yes?

and if your worry is that too much focus is on not mafia and not enough focus is being put others, then engage people about those others?

or try to talk to those you feel are focusing on not mafia in lieu of other slots about other slots and so forth

like it's not like there has been no other content so if you want something else to be talked about, talk about it, try to talk to others about it, et cetera

like sure i can agree that i feel the game is generally lacking in sortable content from a lot of slots

but...

i really do not think the solution is to further discourage potentially sortable content

[angela]

but

how are you planning on sorting not mafia though?

are you just not? and you think that should be everyone's approach?

like not mafia is generally considered to be a very good player by a lot of other very good players

so if town, it would be valuable to be able to believe in not mafia to some extent, yes?

and if mafia, well it would be quite valuable to determine this as well?

especially with how things that have unfolded this game so far that would also point to a lot of other things

like if you are going to stand opposed to a potential policy elimination,

then you should probably have another plan for sorting the slot

[angela]

Kittytack is getting attention because they are one of the few players willing to try and explain their reasoning, and so just easy to keep pressure on them

VOTE: kitty

do you have

any other thoughts on the game so far?

[angela]

And any mythos out there about me actually being a good player or having good reads is nonsense

i have just heard a lot of different players i think are pretty good say this;

my personal experience with you (as mafia in mystery box h8 and town in silent star ii) was certainly not enough of a sample size to come to any kind of conclusion myself

[angela]

i have just heard a lot of different players i think are pretty good say this;

i guess it is only a lot because total population of mafia players isn't all that many

the actual number is probably closer to 6 or 7, but still that is notable as there aren't all that many players that players kinda agree are good in this way

[angela]

oh look gera is joining another bandwagon. nothing suspicious about that.

do you have much experience with geraintm?

and if so,

would you say that town!geraintm generally functions under a blanket

"wagons are good"

playstyle?

[angela]

oh look gera is joining another bandwagon. nothing suspicious about that.

do you have much experience with geraintm?

and if so,

would you say that town!geraintm generally functions under a blanket

"wagons are good"

playstyle?

also interested in anyone else with experience with geraintm weighing in on this

[angela]

also interested in anyone else with experience with geraintm weighing in on this

like i might have time to look at some games myself later on in day but can't really right now

[angela]

Why am I still being discussed?

who/what

do you think

should be discussed instead?

[angela]

Why am I still being discussed?

who/what

do you think

should be discussed instead?

[angela]

I played with Gera in Polish Rap viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88570

He was "doing more" so maybe you could make the argument that his meta doesn't match but honestly just throwing down votes on both wagons that popped up doesn't seem like town play to me

thankyou; i will try to look at this later tonight

it's like, if i squint i can see it as maybe a 'wagons for wagons sake' type thing i have seen from a few players

and i haven't really played with geraintm before so i wasn't sure if this was something that might be expected

[angela]

sorry for absence;

will be around in ~2-3 hours

I’m not wary of going “hard”. What a bunch of crap. I explained why I didn’t think the conversation was +Town. I also said that even if that’s the case, I don’t think Scum would be so blatant about it. Additionally, I actually think angela has been asking solid questions (though I wouldn’t settle on angela being Town just yet for forever).

As I said it's still early game and I'm more than happy to change my mind - but it kinda just interested me and gave me an early mafia vibe, throw out a strong accusation but then roll back on it shortly afterwards.

Your posts over the past couple of pages feel a bit panicky as well to be honest.

hmhmhm,

what feels panicky about andresvmb’s recent posts?

do you think that ‘panic’ points towards mafia!andresvmb?

and! if so,

do you make any other assumptions about current game state based on that?

[angela]

[quote="In post 364, Morning Tweet"][/quote]
hmm

[angela]

I dont this argument between scorpio and andre is particularly AI

hmm

[angela]

I'm fairly confident that within a few posts Kitty will vote me..

i feel like,

your stance towards kitty has changed dramatically since i pointed out possible connection there

sure maybe coincidence but still pretty noteworthy to me

[angela]

u mean like a player that joins leading wagons for "pressure"? IDK if he has a history of doing that or not.

yeah this is more or less what i meant,

and it seems like the answer is 'not really' from an extremely cursory look at a couple games

at least not consistently

but still need to look at this more

[angela]

I'm fairly confident that within a few posts Kitty will vote me..

i feel like,

your stance towards kitty has changed dramatically since i pointed out possible connection there

sure maybe coincidence but still pretty noteworthy to me

nope, I haven;t liked Kitty since the severe over reaction.

which was shortly following my pointing out the possible connection, shrug

[angela]

I did answer your question, btw. You asked why did you feel it was relevant to share my roll %? I answered that it was a joke. Multiple times now. You accused me of lying and saying that this was noted. You have yet to admit to being wrong about that. Which, btw, you obviously are. You have failed to explain the Scum motivation behind even thinking about lying about it being a real number.

I’m not sure why you’re dismissing all my arguments (which there are a few) as excrement. Why not engage with them one by one? The problem is you are being condescending in an attempt to diminish me, but you’re not admitting it. Which is weird. You had to write out that if I had rolled Scum once after rolling Town 10 times, that percentage is meaningfully smaller than 96.2%. Which assumes I wouldn’t have considered that if I was insisting on lying about the number (which is what I’m calling obnoxious). Unless I really lack in basic math skills, I would immediately know that if I have played whatever number of games, I would have had to roll Scum a really small number of times for it to work. At most 2 in ~50 games. So where is my error?

It wasnt a joke.. stop..

do you think

it wasn't said in conversation? like andresvmb wasn't the first to mention a % (pooky was)

and andresvmb's post was like a minute later

do you think andresvmb really thought

'this is an opportunity for me to show off how often i have rolled town in the past!!!! in order to be townread'

or

'oh weirdly enough i have this insane %'

[angela]

I dont this argument between scorpio and andre is particularly AI

hmm

It seems like the kind of thing where two players gset caught up on one another and it loses the game down the line

That or perhaps one is scum but I dont think it's because of anything they're talking abt. so hence, yeah

i guess to me it feels like, a really really bad angle

and it is difficult for me to see why you'd think that really really bad angle likely comes from town

[angela]

I dont this argument between scorpio and andre is particularly AI

hmm

It seems like the kind of thing where two players gset caught up on one another and it loses the game down the line

That or perhaps one is scum but I dont think it's because of anything they're talking abt. so hence, yeah

i guess to me it feels like, a really really bad angle

and it is difficult for me to see why you'd think that really really bad angle likely comes from town

like i'm not saying really really bad angles never come from town (i am obviously extremely guilty of doing this myself at times)

but it seems weird to me for you to default to 'probably town'

[angela]

I'm fairly confident that within a few posts Kitty will vote me..

i feel like,

your stance towards kitty has changed dramatically since i pointed out possible connection there

sure maybe coincidence but still pretty noteworthy to me

nope, I haven;t liked Kitty since the severe over reaction.

which was shortly following my pointing out the possible connection, shrug

I think you are mistaken. My reaction to Kitty was litterally the next post.

You had zero influence on that.

my post about possible connection was 230

preceding your turn on kittytacky, so i am not mistaken

however could be a coincidence, like i said

i do think it is noteworthy that you are connecting kittytacky and andresvmb right now when you did not really react to kittytacky agreeing with you about andresvmb earlier though

and kittytacky never really addressed why kittytacky agreed with this despite my multiple attempts at asking

[angela]

I don't like loaded multiple choice questions designed as jump offs for cases...

I do not feel it was a joke..

i mean, is your entire issue that andresvmb used the word 'joke' instead of saying the comment was 'made in jest'?

[angela]

I don't like loaded multiple choice questions designed as jump offs for cases...

I do not feel it was a joke..

i mean, is your entire issue that andresvmb used the word 'joke' instead of saying the comment was 'made in jest'?

no my issue was I asked a simple question and was blasted for it. I actually thought it was long over when we talked about it, like I said. I never planned on making any serious case out of it. I was just curious.

Like Kitty, I think they are being very touchy.

to me it is like,

pooky asks me if i'm town

i am, pooky and i have been in multiple games recently with isis as mafia, each of us were partnered with her in one, and isis expressed frustration with rolling mafia again there, thus my comment about isis being jealous

even though across the board i do not roll town so so often not like andresvmb or anything, slightly under 80%

pooky says pooky is also jealous citing a mafia % that was likely more how it

feels

to pooky than actual %

then andresvmb shares percentage and says unbeatable

which to me felt pretty natural and i still don't really understand the connection to gambler's fallacy

but sure like i said earlier i can see you potentially being frustrated with being asked question about and then feeling like it has been made too much a deal of if you're town

but i guess that makes it difficult for me to see connection you're currently making to andresvmb's alignment

which like, would i prefer they interacted in a less standoffish way? yes, this is something i am trying to work on myself as well

but does that seem mafia indicative to me? no not really

[angela]

i feel like we're getting distracted in crap that doesn't matter and ignoring what does matter like voting rathe

why rathe over, say, malcolmtucker?

[angela]

@angela do you think I’m being overly touchy?

Assume for a minute I’m being prickly. Why would that make me Scum? It’s a bullshit accusation and Scorpious doesn’t strike me as engaging in good faith. The vote on me is horrible, and anyone with a brain can see that 348 is full of condescension. The spelling out of the math, after I had already stated that I keep a detailed account of all the games I play, I find so obnoxious. They’re pushing a bullshit case, wholesale dismissing my arguments as “excrement”, and just tossing out the word “flailing” in a blatant effort to diminish my standing.

i think

like the way you are expressing things at times probably has a net negative effect on the game, for lack of a better way to phrase that,

but like i said doesn't necessarily seem like a mafia weighted thing to me

and scorpious approach has felt kinda ??? to me as well

[angela]

I strongly doubt the level of aggro is AI in any way..

that's what i was trying to say

which then leads me to wonder what you meant by touchy if not that

[angela]

i feel like we're getting distracted in crap that doesn't matter and ignoring what does matter like voting rathe

why rathe over, say, malcolmtucker?

i dunno what to think of malcolm yet but i've liked his vibe so far

very very narrow iso and malcolmtucker pointed out that that sort of thing with regards to not mafia would be a red flag

which is pretty

hm

yeah

[angela]

because no one else is voting rathe

is the issue with rathe mostly that

rathe observed my interaction with scorpious and then expressed how it felt like a town/town interaction

but had voted for kittytacky because kittytacky said felt it was a town/town interaction?

[angela]

the issue with rathe is

kitty goes "i think this is TvT"

rathe goes "you KNOW it's TvT!" without citing any evidence or providing any reasoning for this other than kitty provided a TvT

then rathe loses interest and votes for ger for wagoning which seems opportunistic to me.

so rathe would be projecting the town v town thing onto kittytacky, as rathe was in midst of expressing more or less the same thing

and then opportunistically voting

hmhmhm

[angela]

I strongly doubt the level of aggro is AI in any way..

that's what i was trying to say

which then leads me to wonder what you meant by touchy if not that

I meant touchy as in very defensive. just the concept,not the way it was delivered.

i guess maybe to me

like sure i think i can see what you mean by very defensive

but also, do not really think that is mafia indicative either

and is definitely something mafias say about me frequently

and sometimes towns as well

and my only experience with andresvmb was in a not particularly comparable micro normal moderated by datisi

[angela]

Disagree on how I’m expressing things - I have very much attacked arguments and content, not players. I could be more diplomatic perhaps but frankly, around here no one pays attention to arguments that aren’t in your face.

there isn't a lot of value in us discussing this during a game for obvious reasons,

and i wasn't trying to say you 'crossed the line' or 'broke the rules' or anything

but rather that i just think that if wrong you are more likely to find out from a different approach to interaction and it makes the game more pleasant to play

like i think the benefits of not being 'in your face' outweigh the benefits of being 'in your face' by a significant margin

but as previously mentioned i am not always so good about this myself and am trying to be better

and! yeah discussing this during a game probably an altogether bad idea

[angela]

and! yeah discussing this during a game probably an altogether bad idea

sorry

[angela]

which btw, anybody independently can just go check at this point and confirm whether I’m right or not

oh i did this a while ago when i asked scorpious if they checked

this was my count:

mini normal 2163 - town
mini normal 2157 - town
newbie 2023 - town
mini normal 2173 - town
mini normal 2179 - town
mini normal 2183 - town
large normal 231 - town
mini normal 2190 - town
mini 2195 - town
mini normal 2201 - town
mini normal 2205 - town
large normal 232 - town
micro 1013 - town (i was in this one too!)
mini normal 2213 - town
large normal 233 - town
large normal 234 - town
micro 1005 - town
mini normal 2232 - town
large normal 236 - town
mini normal 2238 - town
mini normal 2246 - town
newbie 2083 - town
micro 1034 - town
mini normal 2252 - town
mini normal 2258 - mafia

which came to 23/24 i think(?) and i just assumed i probably missed a game or two

[angela]

which came to 23/24 i think(?) and i just assumed i probably missed a game or two

24/25

[angela]

i feel like we're getting distracted in crap that doesn't matter and ignoring what does matter like voting rathe

why rathe over, say, malcolmtucker?

i dunno what to think of malcolm yet but i've liked his vibe so far

very very narrow iso and malcolmtucker pointed out that that sort of thing with regards to not mafia would be a red flag

which is pretty

hm

yeah

@morning tweet

can you look at malcolmtucker too while you're here

like the focus feels very very narrow

which feels kinda hm with how spread out the posts are and such

like the way i talked to kanna during the first day of lunacy

i think would be the best example i could give of a game we were both in

[angela]

I will say it's a lot stronger of a start than they had in our last game, that's for sure

(this is a joke and not what i want ppl to be taking out of that last post)

Although I do genuinely think Malcolm taking initiative rather than following another wagon at the beginning of this game is a good sign

you could argue they did it rather than follow because, say, maybe the main wagon at the time was on their buddy Kitty, but I'm not sure i lean that way. i think scum!Malcolm joins an existing wagon with existing town voices already helping rather than forge a brand new one on Andres, if their goal was to protect Kitty.

quoting this one in order to not quote the entirety of other one

i guess maybe i would more likely expect that sort of thing - find one thing, comment on it, build entire case out of it, barely mention anything else - to come from newish mafia rather than newish town

[angela]

There are a lot of towny players so far. I think gerain, Scorp, Andre, angela, Dragons are all town and i might even be able to expound upon those

pedit: I don't think i'm anything but fair there to be honest, at least for the first few posts in the exchange. I haven't read the lengthier later ones yet though, correct

I have to say - I really don’t like this grouping. Scorpious is expressing a lot of confidence that I’m Scum, yet you think both of us are Town? So you think I’m just way off? I also can’t quite understand why you would have STD in that early group of what seem like your surefire Town. geraintm even less so, especially when they’ve said that most of their posts are all just fluff. I would argue geraintm hasn’t deviated all that far away from null territory.

I do think you're way off, yes. It could also be me that's off. Do you find that hard to believe given it's day 1 and we're like 20 pages in?

At least one and possibly both of us are way off. That's normal, town usually takes some time to start locating each other well. In my current opinion of the gamestate there is a lot of town fighting town so that's why I've been playing a bit defensively for others

My strongest feelings on town are Scorp/Andre/angela

Gerain/dragons are weaker and not as surefire

Sorry i just ordered them as they came to mind in that post.

Hurtful towards me :<

i feel pretty strongly that you are town if not mafia is mafia, does that count?

[angela]

(still kinda think the save the dragons/morning tweet thing was kinda weird which i am reminded of by both of them posting)

[angela]

Spoiler:

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

this game is hoppin

i mean,

it's not like either of you have adopted a particularly proactive sorting role here?

which would kinda be the expected next step from

'hm, the game seems to be moving slower than i'd prefer,'

yeah?

like at least nero cain has shared some thoughts on the game

i have no thoughts as of yet

that will change

actually i think you and kittytacky are town so i guess i have thoughts

VOTE: morning tweet

actually i think you and kittytacky are town so i guess i have thoughts

Are you going to give us some insight into these “thoughts”?

do you want more insight

it's mostly a vibe thing, angela seems to be engaged with the game and kittytacky is purely based on one post that didn't seem to come from scum

VOTE: rathe

What seemed weird about that vote to you? I know that you've probably already said so I apologize in advance

the next time save the dragons was posting after it you were both active at the time and neither of you made note of it

even though neither of you had been active at all in the interim

like it just seems like something one of you would make note of or address in some way at that time

but was just like forgotten which seems strange as it was quite recent at that time

[angela]

(i am certainly not dismissing andresvmb just a) lots of time yet much more to learn and b) not yet sure who feels like best elimination to me et cetera)

[angela]

I have yet to really look at Scorp super critically i guess, it's just that Scorp/Angela and Scorp/you have been having arguments that really hit a lot of the "this is not AI" notes for me and from what i did read from him i was agreeing with

It could be very well that you are correct it just wasnt my first instinct. I should do better to recognize what exactly is colouring my view of the gamestate tbh but i am trying my best!

i kinda think maybe you would most be able to tell with me

like the difference between me having miscommunication and me potentially being on to something

as you’ve witnessed so much of both

but also i have worries about other things with regards to you (some of which maybe kinda unfair {like i think town!you would probably be able to go ‘yeah angela probably town from having played with/moderated me but i also think scum!you would be quite likely to townread me early so it’s unfair to count that against you in anyway} but others feel maybe slightly more weighty) so maybe struggling right now to just believe in you on this in the way i would otherwise like to

[angela]

It looks like dragons had already switched to Rathe by the time I started posting, too. So it was even less on my mind

I'm really not sure I see what you're seeing

right so save the dragons voted you
then moves vote to rathe
then you sorta discuss that for a post? if i remember correctly
but nothing could have possibly changed with regards to save the dragons read of you in that time, right?
because you weren’t there
so it seems strange to me that vote change and such is ignored
as it stands out to me and i am note even party involved
like someone said somewhere recently that someone can have multiple reads and such
which is definitely expected from town
but it seemed like the whole vote was forgotten

[angela]

like opposite of having multiple reads, like new vote replaced the old one, which is ???

[angela]

because no resolution in anyway from either of you

[angela]

like opposite of having multiple reads, like new vote replaced the old one, which is ???

it is like

if a town is actively moving their vote around,

i expect them to be going in a lot of directions at once,

but then didn’t feel like the direction that led to you being voted was explored at all by save the dragons despite opportunity for that immediately presenting itself

like rathe is a mafia now and morning tweet is no longer! doesn’t make any sense as a town thought process and it’s not super easy to fill in the gaps in other ways

sorry if i have explained this altogether terribly

[angela]

It looks like dragons had already switched to Rathe by the time I started posting, too. So it was even less on my mind

I'm really not sure I see what you're seeing

right so save the dragons voted you
then moves vote to rathe
then you sorta discuss that for a post? if i remember correctly
but nothing could have possibly changed with regards to save the dragons read of you in that time, right?
because you weren’t there
so it seems strange to me that vote change and such is ignored
as it stands out to me and i am note even party involved
like someone said somewhere recently that someone can have multiple reads and such
which is definitely expected from town
but it seemed like the whole vote was forgotten

i'm pretty sure dragons voted me for RVS. I mean, no reason was given and they moved on quickly. So why would I assume Dragons had some kind of scumread on me?

seems like

far into game for that

and also would be very weird timing wise in context

and up to that point your iso pretty hm to me that’s why vote itself seemed okay to me at the time just the aftermath kinda …

[angela]

im gonna just sheep angela cuz she sounds like she knows what shes doing

i like to naked vote

i guess i would mainly like to know

what you found scummy about morning tweet in the first place

and why that dissipated

as like, sure i’m willing to accept that you like to naked vote,

but that doesn’t really explain the sequence of events to me

[angela]

im gonna just sheep angela cuz she sounds like she knows what shes doing

i am seeing so many ghosts right now

i did want to respond to your post before this with ‘good answer’ and a gif but i couldn’t find the gif i wanted on my phone so i gave up

[angela]

We all probably have our own definitions of how far into the game is too late to be naked voting, that one was so much so within the normal range for me i didn't think to comment on it. You may take that as you will

it seemed too far into the game for rvs to me; not for naked voting

there isn’t really too far into the game for naked voting as there is often implied reasoning et cetera

like the implied reasoning of save the dragons vote on you would be ‘scummy so far’ not ‘random’ i would think

[angela]

i mostly voted morning tweet for her not mafia opinion but decided rathe was a better vote

it feels like you're trying to read into something that isn't there

i guess it seems strange to me that you’d not engage morning tweet about that when both present in the thread shortly thereafter, even if you thought rathe was the better vote that doesn’t make the thoughts about morning tweet evaporate

it’s possible i am but as always don’t really know how to tell the difference and having more perspectives generally better, so

[angela]

i lowkey think nero-nm-kitty-scorp contains all the scum

hmhmhm

i did ask you if you thought three of these four were the mafia team earlier

why nero cain though?

i thought one nero cain post was like

very town

but i also don’t really want to explain it at any length so

[angela]

how bad is my memory that i have no memory of this rofl

VOTE: KT

hm

are you thinking, {not mafia, kittytacky, scorpious}

[angela]

2012

[angela]

the more kitty talks about people suspecting him the more defensive he gets n the more suspicious i get

The cardinal sin of defending yourself when pushed...

VOTE: Scorpious

this is a more confusing post and vote than even mine on kitty

?

only if you read specifically that post and none of the ones immediately preceding it

[angela]

the more kitty talks about people suspecting him the more defensive he gets n the more suspicious i get

The cardinal sin of defending yourself when pushed...

VOTE: Scorpious

?

guess both of you hm

[angela]

i think pretty clear kittytacky was working to scorpious vote there through the posts just because vote is in last post doesn’t mean needs to be connected to rest of post in context

however the bit about ‘don’t want to hammer’ or whatever kinda ???

like it maybe seems too planned altogether as a series of posts to have the first one also say ‘lemme read the game first tho’

[angela]

previous posts - kittytacky’s first post of that series says they’re going to vote for scorpious

[angela]

I'm fairly confident that within a few posts Kitty will vote me..

Correct. How is my post an overreaction? It's not like I flipped out, I just snarked at gera. This and your other posts regarding me read like a shade-throwing attempt. I'll wait until I catch up to vote you to not accidentally hammer you if it came to that though.

[angela]

like this just says ‘ima vote for you after i catchup’

which they then did exactly that?

[angela]

if you want to argue that it feels too planned sure maybe but i don’t really understand how the two of you are !!! about it not being connected to the post - kinda feels like you’re both looking for things to point to and not really trying to follow and determine if mafia

[angela]

and maybe kittytacky posts feel kinda observational? and the response to scorpious feels altogether odd to me

‘you’re going to vote for me!’
‘correct! i am going to vote for you! soon (tm) lemme read the game’

[angela]

@scorpious

why didn’t you ask questions regarding my entrance earlier

and

i already answered the why ?? but you just decided not to quote that one for some reason?

[angela]

angela I’m not going to lie - I find your concern for disclosure around a Vengeful role Scummy. The impact from there being a Vengeful role in the game is that the Scum can’t be certain that a coordinated hammer would end the game in what’s presumed to be ELo. Other than that, there’s no true downside for Town unless the Vengeful Town, if it exists, shoots incorrectly prior to Endgame. At Endgame, there isn’t much of a downside to shooting incorrectly since the game would’ve been lost if their role didn’t exist.

Having said that, I suspect you would have asked your Scum buddies these questions outside of this thread, so perhaps too brazen for Scum. I just don’t think this conversation is helpful for the Town.

it is something that interested me about the rules and i wanted to see if you'd engage with it because you had just mentioned the rules and i found it unlikely enough for it to actually be the case here to feel there was any risk to discuss

and!

it gives the mafias something to potentially worry about

[angela]

and no your questioning andresvmb mentioning roll rate still ???

as it was said in conversation and such and stuck out to me that you’d focus on it the way you did and wanted to see if i was missing something

[angela]

i am quite bad at communication yes not really sure what you’re even trying to say there

like do you think i am secretly good at communicating and lying about that??

like

…

[angela]

like sure i was worried andresvmb may have been buddying me at one point but didn’t seem all that likely to me

and you thinking i’m potentially mafia for potentially being buddies and for the way i ask questions is …………?

like how would you weight ‘asks questions different from the way others do’

vs

everything else i’ve done this game

and come to the conclusion

this is mafia!!!

[angela]

I'd like to know why you are so defensive of Andres..

Time to commute.

i’m not tho?

i think your push has been bad pretty much from the beginning

that isn’t defending someone else

[angela]

@scorpious

why didn’t you ask questions regarding my entrance earlier

and

i already answered the why ?? but you just decided not to quote that one for some reason?

Fair, big posts are not easy for me, I'm surprised it was as coherent as it was.

But what I didn't quote has no bearing on what I'm saying tbh. I want to know how it just kinda got pushed away,then someone actually called you scummy for it,then just also backed away,for no reason..

As far as bringing it up now. I wanted to read the game and started at the begining,and this just happens to be at the very beginning.

if you know my purpose was to engage with andresvmb because they had already mentioned the rules and i wanted to see if they actually interested in rules and such and not just finding something to say

as i’ve already said

then i don’t even understand what you are asking me to explain

[angela]

like i can take the time to walk you through entire thought process and such if you really want but if your approach to that is going to be

‘you’re mafia based on these things that aren’t actually mafia indicative and ignoring everything else you’ve done’

it doesn’t really feel like super worthwhile for me to do so

[angela]

I never “pushed” Andres at that point. I was questioning something that nobody would believe. I’ve also stated that it’s been proven true.

tbh I find his a lot more scummy than you.

I’m just pointing out what I’ve seen. There has been literally zero new content added. I’m just probing. Cause y’know *whisper* that’s what we’re supposed to be doing..

i... still do not understand what andresvmb stating that percentage has to do with andresvmb potentially being mafia though, or what you questioning this would lead to, as i've stated numerous times

also, you could have easily checked it, as i asked you at one point if you had checked it and then checked it myself, shrug

kittytacky also agreed with you describing it as a gambler's fallacy, and also chose to ignore me questioning them about it

eh i mean, if you really want to say what we're supposed to be doing is probing, what would you describe my general interactions with most players as if not 'probing'?

like for you to say 'i'm probing that's what we're supposed to be doing' after saying one of me or andresvmb is probably mafia while completely ignoring what i've been doing and such is kinda ...

will respond to the communication bit in another post

maybe

[angela]

also if you want to 'probe' something please probe malcolmtucker coming to the thread and ignoring everything directed their way during their absence and just making those two posts

[angela]

also if you want to 'probe' something please probe malcolmtucker coming to the thread and ignoring everything directed their way during their absence and just making those two posts

right like multiple people trying to ask them things (myself and galron off the top of my head, possibly others)

and it's like, what are we supposed to do, just keep reposting ships in night style?

whereas someone else could rephrase our attempts at doing so and maybe then malcolmtucker would engage et cetera

idk

[angela]

Lastly, if you find yourself struggling to communicate. Concentrate on the quality of your posts and not quantity. I’m assuming English is not your first launguage( you type better than people I know that have spoken of their whole lives btw). You have the most posts, which is not a point at all. But I’d rather you have 30 less posts and feel more confident in your communication. I hope I’m not offending you.

i at no time as town have ever focused on the quantity of my posts - i do not see much need to as this isn't a post restricted game anyway

if i concentrated greatly on the quality of my posts i would end up simply never ever posting as no post would ever be high enough quality

english is not my first language (or second or third) but i have been familiar with it for two thirds of my life and languages and language related fields (comp lit and semiotics) have been the focus of my studies so i generally do not think the issue in is understanding of the language itself

but rather that, all of my thoughts are on top of eachother and it is very difficult for me to accurately translate those thoughts into words, and i often misunderstand others due to inaccurately filling in the blanks or misunderstanding context or lack of shared experience or inability to determine intention (sarcasm, mafia agenda, etc) frequently overassigning

which is part of why i try to work in possibilities as often as possible

and probably i should do better about posting followup thoughts to posts i have just made but i do not really know how to have the thoughts before i post instead of after

anyway, in terms of like, post numbers, ideally i would have roughly 30 less posts and that would be in the bottom third of everyone, as i am not particularly suited to the role i have adopted for myself in recent games, it's just that, the game suffers if no one assumes that role and i don't know how to address this without assuming the role myself, so i guess similar to how morning tweet says she does not like day one and such i have become more and more of a day one/day two player (which sometimes has drawbacks certainly; i was a pr in two of the games morning tweet has moderated somewhat recently and yeah)

but how are we meant to sort everyone if less than half of everyone is producing sortable content so just trying the best i can and if you have an approach you think would be better for me feel free to share it

[angela]

idk as far as posts i probably shouldn't be making it's largely ones like that one probably, so, sorry

[angela]

or i could go back to posting really long walls as i have tried previously and actually only one person in the game read any of them, so

and if i simply did not post from my phone that would probably curtail a lot of the issues one might find with me but that would also limit me to only posting in narrow windows these days, and sometimes there being days between (which sometimes i cannot avoid anyway) but then there'd be a much higher frequency of these and at that point it would probably be better for me to not play

which maybe it is arguable that it would better for me to not play anyway

[angela]

sorry again okay no more posts like that only solving when i return

[angela]

I

thoughts on

morning tweet/galron/nero cain

?

[angela]

what do you make of nero cain wanting to circle back to what you said about not mafia earlier?

and

do you think morning tweet’s assumptions about your potential play as each alignment are accurate?

[angela]

lemme circle back to this

if you played with NM before and he did this as scum then why are you saying that its a poor idea?

Because we don't learn anything from it if he does this all the time, it's clearly not indicative of his alignment.

only played with them in one game, they did exactly this and turned out to be mafia.

if you've only played with him once and he did this as scum where are you getting the idea that its null? From others in this game?

@Angela, I replied to Nero re this at the time.

The general logic on NM was that they always quickhammer irrespective of their alignment.

My own thoughts were that just eliminating NM for the sake of it in turn one without probing other possible candidates was a poor approach and could be a decent mafia distraction which gains us little info if they are town.

The fact that they quickhammered as mafia didn't necessarily make them more/less likely to be mafia in this game. Frustratingly NM has given us basically nothing to go on so far anyway.

i was more trying to ask you

what you make of nero cain wanting to circle back to this

[angela]

i was more trying to ask you

what you make of nero cain wanting to circle back to this

like what does this tell you about

nero cain

?

[angela]

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with it, the main thing it highlights is he was keen to discuss NM in contrast to someone like Scorpious who wanted to avoid the topic, but I can see both sides of the argument on that one so it doesn't influence a town/mafia read from them at all.

hmhmhm

i feel like, there is a lot going on at that moment in the game and nero cain shortly thereafter votes for scorpious and so forth,

and the post being circled back to was from long ago, so if i knew i was town maybe ears would go up

[angela]

So you like to “take the reigns of the game” ? Kinda like be the driver?

i probably wouldn't say that i like to, but yeah when it doesn't feel like the direction game is going otherwise is super likely to result in mafia being eliminated i do this and have even phrased it as taking the wheel previously

this game i would say that my general approach has been, try to get everyone to engage with the game in some way if possible, try to find the very most likely mafia day one, as that is the greatest advantage we can gain

like nero cain said somewhere in these pages, day one is actually the most important by a wide margin

like sure we can't win without getting the last day correct, but getting day one correct is almost assuredly biggest win % swing

also makes each subsequent day much easier if have day one as base

[angela]

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with it, the main thing it highlights is he was keen to discuss NM in contrast to someone like Scorpious who wanted to avoid the topic, but I can see both sides of the argument on that one so it doesn't influence a town/mafia read from them at all.

hmhmhm

i feel like, there is a lot going on at that moment in the game and nero cain shortly thereafter votes for scorpious and so forth,

and the post being circled back to was from long ago, so if i knew i was town maybe ears would go up

Where are you sitting on Nero here yourself? Your thoughts on the slot seem very mixed, it's clear you don't entirely trust them here but also seem to TR them too as well.

current conversation with you is more about

trying to see how you're looking at game

rather than about nero cain so much

your description probably functionally close enough to how i am viewing nero cain

[angela]

current conversation with you is more about

trying to see how you're looking at game

rather than about nero cain so much

it is like,

things don't happen in a vacuum for town right

like if you're town and nero cain brings this up,

it isn't simply about the content of nero cain's post

but for mafia it is, right

because the mafias are from the future

shrug

[angela]

As I've said above if I'm brutally honest my game has been fairly weak so far, been struggling for concrete reads.

As to why that is, partially it's because I'm often not great on D1 anyway with limited info, but also because I feel like the gamestate has regularly been stalled or interrupted by a lot of meta stuff and arguments not really related to finding scum. Plus we have some players with fairly unconventional styles who aren't doing much at all this turn to hunt mafia either because it's how they play or because they don't like D1.

i'm not looking for reads as much as like, the a to b to c

unless those reads seems like, hard for me to even imagine how they would be weighted in the way they are presented,

mm, obviously a lot of good players going to disagree with me here but i really think the best thing to do in situations where you are town and feel like you are unlikely to be helpful in actually finding the mafias (it me pretty often) is to do a lot of procedural things to help others find other towns/mafias and to make sure everyone knows you are town

because like, if most of the towns know most of the other towns are town town usually wins

[angela]

i'm not looking for reads as much as like, the a to b to c

like you thinking nero cain is circling back to that previous discussion with you because nero was misunderstanding what you were saying initially or because nero cain wanted to discuss not mafia

assumes nero cain is town, yes?

[angela]

generally confused by pretty much every post made after andresvmb unvoted scorpious by players other than pooky

and the what does it mean though has to be in there if my brain worked at all

but alas

[angela]

and Scorp/Angela/andres all likely being town

At worst there's one scum in that group but I wouldn't know which rn

it's like, isn't there a lot of information that would point to which if assuming there is one town in that grouping based solely on recent behaviour at that time

[angela]

Yeah but I don’t disagree on your criticism about the approach Scorpious has taken at times. I have been at the forefront of criticizing it (as has angela). Having said that, Scorpious has been

too

insistent in my mind, and then they backtracked and starting treating me like stubborn Town which

maybe

could be Scum trying to draw less attention to themselves but strategically, it doesn’t make sense. They’re better off doubling down on trying to attack me, I think.

and like, this just seems like a kinda weird assumption to me,

like there are just so many other variables (what if partnered with one of the others being counted as pressuring you, what if changing tactic because leading wagon and you are on that wagon, etc)

[angela]

it depends on player meta, depth/nuance of thought, intent, emotion etc.

there is no magic number to hit.

So you take all those factors and based on some unseen thought process, determine who's posts are too short to be town?
I promise I'm almost done.

i don't really understand what is happening here

didn't pooky say

was not going to give you a pass for making longer posts here compared to a previous scum game?

rather than some posts are too short to come from town

[angela]

you know what, it is a contradiction. but once i sorta commit to a way of voting i kinda have to stick to it, otherwise to me that looks suspicious. kinda locked in for the rest of today, sorry.

it is significantly more suspicious to me that you'd lock into voting in a manner that is not particularly + town

while being aware that that is what you are doing

[angela]

what if partnered with one of the others being counted as pressuring you

right because then instead of it being

some

pressure but certainly not nearly enough

it would be effectively zero pressure and would definitely need to collectively pivot

and its probably worth noting that malcolmtucker then immediately moved vote when next arrived to thread

and also said was doing so because was now townreading andresvmb

rather than because no longer a viable wagon, so

[angela]

didnt rly like the interaction with scorpius n pooky but i would probably still add pooky in the town group

From a meta POV, does anyone know if Pooky tends to make less effort in general if mafia as opposed to town or vice versa? I did find some of their responses to Scorpious quite lazy and I believe they mentioned just being fine to sheep Angela's vote - if they reckon Angela is going to be perceived as solid town but has an incorrect read then it's not a terrible mafia approach.

mafia!pooky plays like a mafia at some point in my experience, and so far i have not felt like pooky was playing like a mafia

like sure maybe it hasn't happened yet or maybe pooky is being extra sneaky here

but yeah

[angela]

what if partnered with one of the others being counted as pressuring you

right because then instead of it being

some

pressure but certainly not nearly enough

it would be effectively zero pressure and would definitely need to collectively pivot

and its probably worth noting that malcolmtucker then immediately moved vote when next arrived to thread

and also said was doing so because was now townreading andresvmb

rather than because no longer a viable wagon, so

I've not completely cleared Andre yet but their approach to the game has felt more helpful and they just inherently seem more townie than mafia despite early reservations, like they're trying to drive the game forward and get reads out of people in a way that can hopefully help spark some life into the game and mafia probably don't need to do that turn one unless they're under threat of going out. Mafia andre probably pushes Scorpious a bit more given that wagon was forming.

i am questioning the read of scorpious there more than anything else, while also questioning morning tweet's read of the whole situation

as like, it doesn't actually make a lot of sense to me for andresvmb to think scorpious is town for that

and while i think it would probably be better for mafia!andresvmb not partnered with scorpious to hold tight, i also have been trying not to clear people for not doing what i think would be optimal for mafia as much anymore

because

a) has led to me being wrong previously

and

b) not everyone agrees with what would be optimal for mafia to do

[angela]

b) not everyone agrees with what would be optimal for mafia to do

like to me

a lot of people very very heavily overvalue being townread as mafia

[angela]

b) not everyone agrees with what would be optimal for mafia to do

like to me

a lot of people very very heavily overvalue being townread as mafia

but if andresvmb is one of those who do heavily value being townread as mafia, then might not hold tight instead of reciprocating the deescalation

[angela]

didnt rly like the interaction with scorpius n pooky but i would probably still add pooky in the town group

From a meta POV, does anyone know if Pooky tends to make less effort in general if mafia as opposed to town or vice versa? I did find some of their responses to Scorpious quite lazy and I believe they mentioned just being fine to sheep Angela's vote - if they reckon Angela is going to be perceived as solid town but has an incorrect read then it's not a terrible mafia approach.

mafia!pooky plays like a mafia at some point in my experience, and so far i have not felt like pooky was playing like a mafia

like sure maybe it hasn't happened yet or maybe pooky is being extra sneaky here

but yeah

which i mean, if you think pooky is likely to be mafia, then view of game should probably account for like, why pooky hasn't yet seemed like a mafia bear

which sure could be the thing someone (possibly malcolmtucker) mentioned about me being completely far off the scent here and pooky counting on that

but, hm, doesn't seem all that likely to me

[angela]

shes awesome and has better reads than i do most of the time

though pooky is almost certainly overly kind to me here

[angela]

(not alignment indicative)

[angela]

Angela, what are your thoughts on scum Pooky saying they will sheep you hoping your vote would be on me?

That would be like installed opportunism, because we all know the quick hammer is a thing this game.

it seems like a somewhat unlikely approach from scum!pooky here and more likely to come from town!pooky based on my past experience

and also pooky more or less indicated desire to sheep me earlier before your wagon was big and then just mostly reiterated

and like if you're town i would pretty wary of the intermediate votes on you probably

also! pooky is very aware that any decision i would be making on this would not be

like, right now

and for scum!pooky to float this knowing how

everywhere

i am right now knowing would then have to sit with it for days if others in the game do not force the issue seems kinda ???

[angela]

like if you want to argue scum!pooky is counting on me misreading pooky, and voting you eventually, and that their stance towards andresvmb unvoting you was to help engineer this

like, maybe?

but seems unlikely

[angela]

but also, pooky very smart and sneaky

and certainly does know when to battle and when not to,

just not feeling like pooky is doing so because evil here

[angela]

like if you want to argue scum!pooky is counting on me misreading pooky, and voting you eventually, and that their stance towards andresvmb unvoting you was to help engineer this

like, maybe?

but seems unlikely

like doesn't this run a great risk

of me finding this to be suspicious?

if pooky is mafia?

[angela]

like if you want to argue scum!pooky is counting on me misreading pooky, and voting you eventually, and that their stance towards andresvmb unvoting you was to help engineer this

like, maybe?

but seems unlikely

like doesn't this run a great risk

of me finding this to be suspicious?

if pooky is mafia?

sure non-zero percent i am being puppet-mastered and pooky would bank on me interpreting it the way i have

but, eh

[angela]

best case in favour of it is that

pooky directly plays to win condition as mafia plays like a mafia and that could be a sneaky version of that

like a lot of my thinking about how to play as mafia and such and optimal mafia plays comes from observing pooky and others quite a bit

and it is like, pooky as mafia seems to have inverse of my current town approach of let's simply find and eliminate the very most likely mafia each day

like it seems like to pooky each day as mafia is simply about mafia not being eliminated

and that everything else is to be worried about as necessary when it comes up

but the pressing issue

what must be done

is mafia not being eliminated

whenever possible

[angela]

best case in favour of it is that

pooky directly plays to win condition as mafia plays like a mafia and that could be a sneaky version of that

like a lot of my thinking about how to play as mafia and such and optimal mafia plays comes from observing pooky and others quite a bit

and it is like, pooky as mafia seems to have inverse of my current town approach of let's simply find and eliminate the very most likely mafia each day

like it seems like to pooky each day as mafia is simply about mafia not being eliminated

and that everything else is to be worried about as necessary when it comes up

but the pressing issue

what must be done

is mafia not being eliminated

whenever possible

most of this is like

the pooky in my head

rather than, pooky

as i haven't actually talked to pooky about mafia at any length i have just played a lot with pooky and read other pooky games and created a version of pooky in my head and that is what i have described here

[angela]

like if you want to argue scum!pooky is counting on me misreading pooky, and voting you eventually, and that their stance towards andresvmb unvoting you was to help engineer this

like, maybe?

but seems unlikely

like doesn't this run a great risk

of me finding this to be suspicious?

if pooky is mafia?

Really though, what would there to be suspicious of. You play a mean scum game if you are, but I read you as town. People say they will sheep a tr all the time.

I didn’t read it as scummy, im just bouncing things off you cause you’re here, and again a tr for me.

well, pooky is very aware that my natural reaction, at least when i am in this sort of state is, this is possibly suspicious!, in general

but also in that it can easily be perceived as having an end goal and i think mafia!pooky might think that would be suspicious to me

which i mean, i have certainly thought about as you can see,

[angela]

kinda think unless pooky was partnered with noone who has really been suspected so far

that pooky would step around me so the line didn't go through me

[angela]

[angela]

like there are just so many other variables (what if partnered with one of the others being counted as pressuring you, what if changing tactic because leading wagon and you are on that wagon, etc)

Well we know that Scorpious unvoted me before I unvoted back, so the second part of your post doesn’t make sense, right. Because my vote was still on Scorpious as was the bulk of my attention.

sorry, i did not explain this very well - i know scorpious unvoted before you did, that's what i meant by 'changing tactic because leading wagon and you are on that wagon'

like scorpious, as it stood, would quite possibly be eliminated so if mafia would be unlikely to simply hold position

and appealing to someone on the wagon by unvoting them and such makes a lot of sense as a tactic in that situation,

The only other player actively pressuring me was MalcolmTucker. Either Scorpious piled on after MalcolmTucker criticized my early posts (either as Scum both, or MalcolmTucker as Town and wrong, which maybe), but then why move away before MalcolmTucker does? Or Scorpious realized they weren’t getting anywhere (which I believe Pooky alluded to), and wants to push someone else. Which maybe? And yeah, some of this is probably influence by what you think Scum tend to do. If you think they’re more likely to

want to appear Town

instead of

drive mis-executions

, then you’ll probably think (like I do) that the line of attack and ultimately moving away and changing their mind at that stage is +Town (because like I explained, I think I’m not the only player that has expressed reservations with how Scorpious is approaching other players - all you have to do is read the exchange with Pooky for that). If you think they’re more likely to want to make sure that Town is executed, then perhaps it’s +Scum to you.

I don’t know if any of that makes sense, but I am trying to lay down how I thought about the situation and why I felt strategically, they were probably better off continuing to find reasons to stay on me and just drift somewhat to the background. Scorpious just hasn’t done that.

and then, your wagon is all but dissolved, and malcolmtucker comes to game, is now also townreading you, as opposed to just leaving your wagon because now unviable,

which seems kinda hmm to me

and i, kinda regardless of what i think scum are more likely to do, think scum!scorpious wouldn't really be able to stay on you and drift to the background, because scorpious was the leading wagon and i don't think scorpious would have deemed continuing to battle you as being more likely to result in your elimination rather than scorpious's elimination

[angela]

good rathe posts

[angela]

I do think it’s interesting that you think Scum!Me would probably benefit from holding tight on Scorpious, but you don’t think the same for Scum!Scorpious (them holding tight on voting me). Like in my humble experience, I’m not so sure that Scum want to have the people they’re voting D1 actually flipped. It’s much more powerful long-term to be voting someone for reasons that others view as valid, but have the Town drive a mis-execution elsewhere. I don’t know if you can necessarily plan for it, but depending on who is seeing pressure, perhaps you think you can stay the course, not draw too much attention, and stay away from the execution (provided it’s not your buddy). And to an extent, I think Scorpious recognizes that they don’t have that much power to drive any execution here (outside of their vote), so I don’t perceive them as wanting to push forth a viable wagon on a Town player. But yeah, lots of assumptions there for sure, and I could very well be wrong.

Like I said, I’m trying to lay out what drove my gut reaction, see if it makes any sense haha it’s probably all gibberish.

because scum!you holding tight if not partnered with scorpious seems more likely to lead to a miselimination and scum!scorpious holding tight seems more likely to lead to scorpious being eliminated

but like i said, been trying not to put too much stock into what i think would be optimal scum play because not everyone agrees and thus would not play as i would expect and such

[angela]

Yeah I can see what you’re saying here. But you’re not really saying then what you’re thinking, which is that you think MalcolmTucker and/or Scorpious is Scum. If I’m reading your posts correctly, you seem to be saying that they both planned on pushing me with the hope that it would catch on, and when it didn’t (and instead made it more likely that one of them would be executed), they dropped the push and started looking elsewhere. Yeah?

i guess i was more saying that

that what you described there seems like a very notable possibility to me, and it seemed kinda odd for you to think, oh this change of tactic probably comes from town!

whereas to me it was like, could potentially come from town but i also see pretty clear mafia benefit to it

and like, other connecting factors that might support that

but if you want me to say what i was potentially thinking, it's like,

if malcolmtucker and scorpious mafia together, then there was never actually any traction on you and would have to abandon ship there to have someone other than scorpious eliminated

if scorpious mafia without malcolmtucker then maybe the jumping ship slightly less likely to happen? but i wouldn't really say that it felt like malcolmtucker was going to get you eliminated today at any point, so i wouldn't put all that much weight in this

if malcolmtucker mafia then would be disengaging from you because now unviable and maybe would want to look closely at the other current wagons for potential partners, as i have been pretty much the only one expressing suspicion there, outside of maybe nero cain? but that wasn't really more than just asking that one question (which if any of the other suspected parties are mafia doesn't really make sense right because you'd think mafia would at least check the tires on malcolmtucker push if a mafia is under pressure)

if malcolmtucker town then just townread you at that time as well,

i guess the other question with wagon viability and thought process with regards to malcolmtucker to consider there is that malcolmtucker moved to geraintm who also wasn't heavily pressured

gotta go look at malcolmtucker's read of galron again

[angela]

you know what, it is a contradiction. but once i sorta commit to a way of voting i kinda have to stick to it, otherwise to me that looks suspicious. kinda locked in for the rest of today, sorry.

it is significantly more suspicious to me that you'd lock into voting in a manner that is not particularly + town

while being aware that that is what you are doing

ah, its just me having a little bit of fun and trying to achieve my aim for Day 1, which is to get to Day 2 as quickly as possible. dont mind me, i promise i'll be better from tomorrow onwards

interesting to me that this is your aim when you've also said that you think it would be better if towns did not eliminate day one

which i assumed to involve using the entire day to figure things out and then using the information gained from nightkill to also inform decisions

(which information gain not worth loss of elimination, odd number of players and such)

and get to day two as quickly as possible has the exact opposite effect of limiting information as much as possible

but idk how alignment relevant this might be

[angela]

I appreciate what you’re doing, which is that you’re considering all of the alternatives,

mostly just trying to build mental model of game and trying to assign weights to everything

[angela]

good rathe posts

only worry with this would be

like

if rathe was also in need of wagon

[angela]

good rathe posts

only worry with this would be

like

if rathe was also in need of wagon

Do you think Scum “need” a wagon?

if one of the leading wagons is on mafia (scorpious, galron), or if the mafia think non-movement would result in a wagon on mafia,

then yes, i think mafia would be actively looking for a wagon, especially if galron because scorpious wagon kinda headed in opposite direction,

[angela]

guess i'm kinda interested in what galron thinks of galron wagon

[angela]

guess i'm kinda interested in what galron thinks of galron wagon

meant to ask this as a question!

@galron

[angela]

good rathe posts

why? didn't rathe just rehash what someone else has already said?

it felt like rathe’s posts checked out to me

like maybe that’s underestimating mafia rathe but the i was looking at your posts thing is pretty aware and the rest follows

[angela]

I find the current vote tally on Scorpious quite interesting - as has been noted we're nearing elimination and he's generally had the biggest vote tally throughout the game but nobody actually appears to be pushing him or trying to solidify that block as such. Why not, if they want him out?

i mean, do you think it is alignment indicative that i haven’t pushed the scorpious wagon over?

[angela]

i am pretty willing to give geraintm a day one pass here even though it is very frustrating to me as well just don’t really think it makes geraintm super likely mafia

[angela]

I find the current vote tally on Scorpious quite interesting - as has been noted we're nearing elimination and he's generally had the biggest vote tally throughout the game but nobody actually appears to be pushing him or trying to solidify that block as such. Why not, if they want him out?

i mean, do you think it is alignment indicative that i haven’t pushed the scorpious wagon over?

and if you think scorpious is town and the lack of a push is noteworthy then i think that’d be more likely due to mafia waiting to see if i’d push it over and potentially one sitting in the intermediate votes as i mentioned before

[angela]

i don’t see how geraintm would even be better elimination than not mafia

[angela]

i don’t see how geraintm would even be better elimination than not mafia

Well, I would feel better about Gera’s schtick if they didn’t keep reminding us about it.

I think they are scum because of that, like “don’t forget guys I’m not doing anything useful
but if I keep saying why I’m being useless that makes it ok”

Like, fine whatever but stop saying it.. it’s anti-town behavior at best..

Also, you can draw more associatives of their flip. You get nothing from N_M.

I don’t think you can have a N_M lim discussion without the word “policy” coming up.

honestly think we get more associatives from not mafia flip anyway

but also like the expectations doesn’t seem scummy to me

[angela]

but also happy to continue finding a mafia here would prefer that to ‘quick let’s elim not mafia then!!’

mostly just saying i don’t think geraintm should be wagoned here over not mafia if we’re going to choose a default elimination

but also very wary of the geraintm wagon anyway, so

[angela]

It's two players who are doing NAI things per meta.

it rlly do be

But since everyone in the game has interacted in some capacity with the players, they're now even better eliminations than they were at the start of the day

The more I play on the site the more I'm disliking having to rely on how someone approaches the game re meta incredibly annoying, would rather just play the game normally. I'd happily get rid of Ger considering their stance seems to be they automatically get to go to day two by virtue of doing nothing.

sure i can agree that i often am frustrated by the way others play the game,

but on the individual game level it doesn't make the player in question a mafia

like maybe there are solutions that we could employ to make it easier to sort them, if you have any suggestions fire away,

but geraintm isn't mafia in every game, right?

[angela]

Four posts on Scorpious, one of which accuses him of not reading the game, is hardly great stuff.

wait but,

do you think scorpious was closely reading the game there?

[angela]

Four posts on Scorpious, one of which accuses him of not reading the game, is hardly great stuff.

wait but,

do you think scorpious was closely reading the game there?

like if you want to say nero was just echoing sure maybe

but to say no, scorpious was definitely reading the game!

is ...........................................................................

[angela]

No, but their approach here inherently stops us from finding out either way D1. This is inherently anti-town. How would anything ever get done if we all played this way?

Their posts have been contradictory anyway at times which makes things look worse, like there appears to be a deeper motivation there beyond saying nothing.

i am not disagreeing with the complaints about the approach, i have expressed many myself

i do not think that makes geraintm the best elimination today; there are probably at least three who i'd prefer to eliminate on likelihood of being mafia and i'd prefer not mafia as the default elimination at this point

[angela]

My general view on Scorpious is he's been keeping up to date with things yeah, even if I've disagreed with certain views or reads a bit at times.

? i really don't see how you can view scorpious's reaction to kittytacky posts shortly before nero cain posted the 'not reading the game' thing as 'keeping up to date with things'

[angela]

My general view on Scorpious is he's been keeping up to date with things yeah, even if I've disagreed with certain views or reads a bit at times.

? i really don't see how you can view scorpious's reaction to kittytacky posts shortly before nero cain posted the 'not reading the game' thing as 'keeping up to date with things'

like geraintm and scorpious just ignored most of kittytacky's posts and picked out something to point at

like that's the strongest point i have against geraintm right now, much stronger than the approach thing,

and for someone pushing geraintm it's kinda strange to me that you'd also skip over that while making note of the nero cain post

[angela]

I wouldn't hate an NM elimination given they are clearly doing nothing but I don't see why Ger is any worse.

geraintm more likely to do something in the future

and!

probably gain more from not mafia elimination information wise

[angela]

My general view on Scorpious is he's been keeping up to date with things yeah, even if I've disagreed with certain views or reads a bit at times.

? i really don't see how you can view scorpious's reaction to kittytacky posts shortly before nero cain posted the 'not reading the game' thing as 'keeping up to date with things'

like geraintm and scorpious just ignored most of kittytacky's posts and picked out something to point at

like that's the strongest point i have against geraintm right now, much stronger than the approach thing,

and for someone pushing geraintm it's kinda strange to me that you'd also skip over that while making note of the nero cain post

though thinking about this more maybe it should be worrisome that rathe also kinda pointed to these same kittytacky posts in a 'this doesn't make sense' way

mm,

[angela]

I wouldn't hate an NM elimination given they are clearly doing nothing but I don't see why Ger is any worse.

geraintm more likely to do something in the future

and!

probably gain more from not mafia elimination information wise

What info specifically? Where do you think we go from an NM elim out of interest?

i mean,

if not mafia flips mafia, what do you think that means for pooky's alignment? and morning tweet's? what do you think that means for those strongly opposed to 'policy elim' when not mafia was being discussed (two of which, yourself and scorpious, are now pushing geraintm)?

[angela]

Four posts on Scorpious, one of which accuses him of not reading the game, is hardly great stuff.

wait but,

do you think scorpious was closely reading the game there?

like if you want to say nero was just echoing sure maybe

but to say no, scorpious was definitely reading the game!

is ...........................................................................

Nero wasn't echoing anyone,though. That was his case on me the whole time.

i mean, nero cain wasn't really the first to point out that you weren't reading the game closely, though was the first one to put it in those words exactly

so i was saying that if the problem with nero cain's post was that maybe that was just said because existing conversation, sure maybe

but malcolmtucker seemed to be saying that that was a ridiculous thing for nero cain to be scumreading you for,

when like, it isn't? like at that time it didn't really feel like you were really reading the game

just cherrypicking things to point at

[angela]

Angela,

Who is your scum pool right now?

i assume you are trying to ask who i would most like to eliminate right now

at this time it’d probably be {scorpious, malcolmtucker, kittytacky}

arbitrarily cutoff at three

but if i were yet confident enough i would have voted

[angela]

Four posts on Scorpious, one of which accuses him of not reading the game, is hardly great stuff.

wait but,

do you think scorpious was closely reading the game there?

like if you want to say nero was just echoing sure maybe

but to say no, scorpious was definitely reading the game!

is ...........................................................................

Nero wasn't echoing anyone,though. That was his case on me the whole time.

i mean, nero cain wasn't really the first to point out that you weren't reading the game closely, though was the first one to put it in those words exactly

so i was saying that if the problem with nero cain's post was that maybe that was just said because existing conversation, sure maybe

but malcolmtucker seemed to be saying that that was a ridiculous thing for nero cain to be scumreading you for,

when like, it isn't? like at that time it didn't really feel like you were really reading the game

just cherrypicking things to point at

Who was the first one? and what words

did

they use?

How do you know if someone is reading the game or not?

I think it is a little ridiculous as well, how do you determine who is reading and who isn't? What if I wasn't posting and just lurking? how do you tell if I'm reading or not?

you ignored the context for both andresvmb % statement and for kittytacky vote

i expressed this and others did as well

has nothing to do with lurking or whatever

[angela]

I'm not calling you scum by any means,but I think the game as whole,myself included has kinda let you do your thing without really much pressure.

Again, I'm not accusing you of anything but it's just something I noticed. you seem to have an effect on the entire roster,and I cannot for the life of me figure out why I am bothered by that.

because i’m town

is the reason why

like why wouldn’t everyone let me do my thing and why would i need to be pressured here??

[angela]

you ignored the context for both andresvmb % statement and for kittytacky vote

i expressed this and others did as well

has nothing to do with lurking or whatever

actually I'm not happy with this response..

Can you answer the questions that are not hypothetical?

And of course your lim pool please..

i answered the questions?

don’t get what you’re saying here

[angela]

if a post happens in context and you ignore the context to point something out as potentially scummy

it feels like you are cherry-picking not reading the game

[angela]

i brought you doing so up and so did others

[angela]

Angela,

Who is your scum pool right now?

i assume you are trying to ask who i would most like to eliminate right now

at this time it’d probably be {scorpious, malcolmtucker, kittytacky}

arbitrarily cutoff at three

but if i were yet confident enough i would have voted

[angela]

like whatever you’re trying to do here is ???????

[angela]

Angela,

Who is your scum pool right now?

i assume you are trying to ask who i would most like to eliminate right now

at this time it’d probably be {scorpious, malcolmtucker, kittytacky}

arbitrarily cutoff at three

but if i were yet confident enough i would have voted

which mostly like, even though am feeling this way right now it doesn’t really make the galron wagon make a lot of sense, so more to consider/more to observe et cetera

[angela]

Angela,

Who is your scum pool right now?

i assume you are trying to ask who i would most like to eliminate right now

at this time it’d probably be {scorpious, malcolmtucker, kittytacky}

arbitrarily cutoff at three

but if i were yet confident enough i would have voted

which mostly like, even though am feeling this way right now it doesn’t really make the galron wagon make a lot of sense, so more to consider/more to observe et cetera

I don't like the Galron wagon either. I feel scum Galron would have just left their vote on me,even if they circle back and re-vote me.That's better than parking and leaving an RVS vote because I was the leading wagon at that time..

Time to commute.

i at some point early in the game made a mental note of something malcolmtucker said as a potential galron associative but it was definitely in enceladus/mimas logic territory

but it would make things potentially make more sense

[angela]

are you a mason?

[angela]

are you a mason?

Even easier to prove than that..

is activated innocent child normal?

Damnit, I did the same thing I said like 100 posts I want to stop doing..

UNVOTE:

I’m a town mailman b t dubs

..........

this is approximately 0% alignment provable

[angela]

Scorpious could be lying but doesn't seem a sensible call to me.

if scorpious was a mafia!mailman would it seem like a sensible call to you?