Mini 642: Bodyguard 7: (Game Over)

[bird1111]

Vote Count:
TDC (2): Slaine Hayes, TheSweatpantsNinja
Slaine Hayes (1): TDC
jonathantan86 (1): CallMeLiam
TheSweatpantsNinja (1): jonathantan86
CallMeLiam (1): BridgesAndBaloons

Not voting (1): hohum

With 7 alive it is 4 to lynch.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Then explain it. I do not think indifferent means what you think it means.

The first entry on my dictionary wiki for indifferent says "having no particular interest or sympathy; unconcerned" this is what I thought it means.

Are you saying you are changing your vote to yes?
I think you are, but correct me if I'm wrong. That makes it:

jonathantan86 = yes but not now
CallMeLiam = yes
hohum
Slaine Hayes
TheSweatpantsNinja = yes
TDC = no
BridgesAndBaloons = no

Jonathan: instead of just saying you were waiting for an answer to your question before you decided, you chose to make no mention of it. Was there a reason for this?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

The first entry on my dictionary wiki for indifferent says "having no particular interest or sympathy; unconcerned" this is what I thought it means.

Are you saying you are changing your vote to yes?
I think you are, but correct me if I'm wrong.

Honestly, your behavior baffles me. No, I wasn't changing my vote to yes. You managed to quote the definition of indifferent (not that I really thought you didn't know what it meant), but you're still acting as if I was voting no the whole time, and only now have come around to the idea, when in reality I still don't particularly care whether you do or not.

I mean, I could see it if you were trying to rally people around to it being a good idea, but

you

voted no. So, and perhaps I need to rephrase this:

Why do you care so much that I come down on one side of the issue or another, when I, in fact, am (still) indifferent?

[jonathantan86]

Jonathan: instead of just saying you were waiting for an answer to your question before you decided, you chose to make no mention of it. Was there a reason for this?

Yes, I did not want to give out too information just in case you were scum.

I wasn't sure of the functionality of the bodyguard, not having played a game with one before. And the wiki entry is also quite vague. If the mafia's original target was going to be mentioned if the bodyguard takes the hit, your strategy for the bodyguard not to protect anyone would be wrong and would benefit the scum. You would be passing off a scum-favouring strategy as pro-town, and that's why I thought you might be scum.

However the original target is not mentioned, and your strategy is correct.

[CallMeLiam]

A spot of really qu

i

ck thinking tells

m

e that if

the

cop

investigates the bodyguard night one, then the win is no longer guaranteed. I know it's unlikely but just wanted to throw it out there.

As such, while I'm in favour of the plan in theory, I don't think we should all be beholden to it.

[CallMeLiam]

Jonathan: instead of just saying you were waiting for an answer to your question before you decided, you chose to make no mention of it. Was there a reason for this?

Yes, I did not want to give out too information just in case you were scum.

What was it that convinced you BaB wasn't scum, or convinced you enough to drop your guard?

[jonathantan86]

What was it that convinced you BaB wasn't scum, or convinced you enough to drop your guard?

My post was quite soon after BaB (without many intervening posts), and I did not want to fall into some trap (quite possibly a scum would put forth something and then attack me for something I said in response).

I don't mind posting more now, not because I'm fully convinced that BaB is town but because discussion has opened up as a result of BaB's post and more discussion is good for the town. So I'm talking, trying to contribute. Slaine Hayes, TDC and hohum, what do you think?

[BridgesAndBaloons]

A spot of really quick thinking tells me that if the cop investigates the bodyguard night one, then the win is no longer guaranteed. I know it's unlikely but just wanted to throw it out there.

Either you're scum, or you're making a heinous error. Considering that I

specifically

said earlier that:

If we lynched a scum day 1, then we automatically win if both the cop and bodyguard claim.

Also realize that the percentages I worked out don't take into account scum-hunting and cop results over n1.

meaning that the cop could literally not investigate anyone and we'd still win automatically.

I have to assume that you're scum trying to mislead the town.

unvote: CallMeLiam
vote: CallMeLiam

(the distinction is that my vote is no longer a random one).

Why do you care so much that I come down on one side of the issue or another, when I, in fact, am (still) indifferent?

Because staying in the middle of an issue this early on in the game makes no sense. If you think that scum would already know, then me revealing info would help the town unless you think that CML is mafia.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Yes, I did not want to give out too information just in case you were scum.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting you, but this makes no sense at all. If anyone is scum besides you, then anything you write in this thread the scum will see. So why all the sudden is it okay to give away information? Even if you think I'm not scum, somebody else has to be.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Slaine Hayes, TDC and hohum, what do you think?

Why'd you ask TDC?

Also,

prod: hohum

It has not been 72 hours yet. Once it has, he/she will be prodded.

jonathantan86 = yes but not now
CallMeLiam = yes
hohum
Slaine Hayes
TheSweatpantsNinja = indifferent
TDC = no
BridgesAndBaloons = no

[jonathantan86]

Maybe I'm misinterpreting you, but this makes no sense at all. If anyone is scum besides you, then anything you write in this thread the scum will see. So why all the sudden is it okay to give away information? Even if you think I'm not scum, somebody else has to be.

Well, I needed to straddle two priorities:
1) Not give the scum too much information
2) Spur conversation (which generally benefits the town)

I was worried that if I said too much at an early stage, scum could turn the conversation to their own advantage. For example, by questioning me and me alone (since no one else volunteered anything yet, they could probably do this and still remain undetected). And I would be giving out information without achieving priority 2.

However more people have responded, and so if I say more hopefully I will realise priority 2. There is still the risk of giving out information, but I feel that conversation is more necessary.

I was asking TDC's opinion on how the conversation has turned, or his/her opinions on the behaviour of the people here.

[bird1111]

hohum prodded.

[Slaine Hayes]

Wow....too many statistics....to simplify my thoughts, I agree with BaB, though I do not see the cop and bodyguard being alive as a very likely possibility. I also feel that all this duscussion may cause one of the roles to slip up and hint at who they are, providing an easy mafia target.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Mod:

11. If you do not post for 72 hours

or if a player requests I do so

, I will prod you by PM,

Is this (bolded) incorrect?

Oops. My bad.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Slain: do you wish me to reveal the reasoning behind it?

[TDC]

I was asking TDC's opinion on how the conversation has turned, or his/her opinions on the behaviour of the people here.

I've not seen any telling reactions, to be honest. Have you?
The "dispute" between BAB and TSPN is a bit odd, though.

Slain: do you wish me to reveal the reasoning behind it?

I interpret his post as a "no".

[BridgesAndBaloons]

The "dispute" between BAB and TSPN is a bit odd, though.

Please elaborate. Do you think it makes one of us scummy? Do you think we're scum partners trying to distance?

I interpret his post as a "no".

How? Please quote his post and explain where it is him saying "no."
I'd rather TDC answer this than Slain actually answer.

[TDC]

The "dispute" between BAB and TSPN is a bit odd, though.

Please elaborate.

It seems like a pointless debate. Have you learned anything from it?

Do you think it makes one of us scummy? Do you think we're scum partners trying to distance?

Not specifically, which is why I called it "odd".

I interpret his post as a "no".

How? Please quote his post and explain where it is him saying "no."
I'd rather TDC answer this than Slain actually answer.

I also feel that all this duscussion may cause one of the roles to slip up and hint at who they are, providing an easy mafia target.

He's concerned about power roles outing themselves, which is obviously a bad thing. One would think he'd want to avoid that (and hence be against you elaborating).
What do you see in his post that suggests otherwise?

[Slaine Hayes]

TDC explains it perfectly.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

Anyone have thoughts on my CML vote?

jonathantan86 = yes but not now
CallMeLiam = yes
hohum
Slaine Hayes = no
TheSweatpantsNinja = indifferent
TDC = no
BridgesAndBaloons = no

up to hohum whether I reveal my reasoning or not...

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Because staying in the middle of an issue this early on in the game makes no sense. If you think that scum would already know, then me revealing info would help the town unless you think that CML is mafia.

I'm not "staying in the middle."

I don't think its an issue.

I also doubt CML is any more likely to be scum because he miscalculated what conditions it would take to automatically win. To what end would he be "misleading the town" by warning that its not an automatic win if the cop investigates the bodyguard? What behavior is that likely to shift to the scum's advantage?

I'm starting to feel like BAB has been calling so much attention to whether he's going to reveal the "big secret" just so he could find a "slip" to jump on. I certainly felt like I was being attacked for not caring whether he elaborated on his reasoning, and now he's jumping on CML on pretty weak reasoning.

So

Vote: BridgesandBaloons.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

To what end would he be "misleading the town" by warning that its not an automatic win if the cop investigates the bodyguard? What behavior is that likely to shift to the scum's advantage?

If everyone doesn't feel like it'll be an auto-win, then the bodyguard and cop might not claim Day 2. This is the exact thing I was afraid of. In the cases I described it helps if both (or if only one is alive) of them claims on Day 2. I need to make sure that everyone understands or believes this.

I'm starting to feel like BAB has been calling so much attention to whether he's going to reveal the "big secret" just so he could find a "slip" to jump on.

Forgive me for trying to catch scum for "slip[ing]" up. I was only trying to scum-hunt.
Seriously, you're attacking me for scum-hunting right now? Explain to me how looking for slip-ups of scum is not scum-hunting.
And why are you saying "big secret?"

I certainly felt like I was being attacked for not caring whether he elaborated on his reasoning, and now he's jumping on CML on pretty weak reasoning.

I wasn't attacking you. I didn't say your behavior was scummy or not. It just really confused me.
What about my reasons for CML or weak? Are there any other better reasons than that at this moment?

And saying me doesn't make any sense because if there are no other better reasons than CML or I, then you can't attack me for voting CML because then I'd be voting for the strongest reasons I could be.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

If everyone doesn't feel like it'll be an auto-win, then the bodyguard and cop might not claim Day 2. This is the exact thing I was afraid of. In the cases I described it helps if both (or if only one is alive) of them claims on Day 2. I need to make sure that everyone understands or believes this.

I don't think anyone's spoken out against it. At worst, we have cml debating whether its an automatic win, not whether or not its a good idea.

And why are you saying "big secret?"

Because that's what you're acting like you have.

What about my reasons for CML or weak? Are there any other better reasons than that at this moment? And saying me doesn't make any sense because if there are no other better reasons than CML or I, then you can't attack me for voting CML because then I'd be voting for the strongest reasons I could be.

There's a big difference between pressuring early day 1 and saying "I can only assume you're scum." That's sort of strong language for a vote you're now trying to back away from.

[BridgesAndBaloons]

And why are you saying "big secret?"

Because that's what you're acting like you have.

I don't see how you came to think that from my posts. I don't feel that at all.
Also, please explain to me how this comment about being a "big secret" is relevant to scum-hunting, if it is. Even if I was dancing around sticking my tounge out and saying I have a big secret, would that be scummy?

There's a big difference between pressuring early day 1 and saying "I can only assume you're scum." That's sort of strong language for a vote you're now trying to back away from.

It's the best lead I have. You

should

know that someone saying "I can only assume you're scum" on page 2 means something drastically different then saying it on page 15.

Also, you

completely

ignored most of my questions.

Explain to me how looking for slip-ups of scum is not scum-hunting.
[. . . ]
What about my reasons for CML or weak? Are there any other better reasons than that at this moment?

[bird1111]

Bumping the Vote Count onto the next page.