Mini 645 - Innocence Falls (Game Over)

[The Pope's Tiara]

cause he voted for the guy I wanted to vote for

I know it is almost a joke, but why didnt you yet vote for the guy you wanted to vote for ? two votes are far from being relevant...

Cause I figured it was a scummy thing to do, beating me to the punch and all..

Are you trying to avoid acting scummy so as not to draw attention to yourself?
Why would a townie be worried?

[Ectomancer]

cause he voted for the guy I wanted to vote for

I know it is almost a joke, but why didnt you yet vote for the guy you wanted to vote for ? two votes are far from being relevant...

Cause I figured it was a scummy thing to do, beating me to the punch and all..

Are you trying to avoid acting scummy so as not to draw attention to yourself?
Why would a townie be worried?

You find your self stuck to the carcass of what was a joke vote, now pummeled into glue. Lose 1 turn while you get yourself out of it.

[Matin]

Are you trying to avoid acting scummy so as not to draw attention to yourself?
Why would a townie be worried?

I'm not worried..

joke vote. joke reason. nothing more to say really..

[Simenon]

@ nureins: Never joke-voted, never will. I'll vote soon enough, and it will be with purpose.

But thanks for asking.

Who's joke voting? I'm taking my vote seriously.

What do you hope your current vote placement will accomplish?

The same thing the previous and subsequent votes accomplished, and what all these votes accomplish in the start of every game. That's serious business.

[Cass]

Really? It might be me, but I've never seen my joke vote accomplish anything. Am i doing it wrong?

[Simenon]

Am i doing it wrong?

No. I'd wish the metagame would place less emphasis on it being a "joke", because that gives the wrong impression that random voting is frivolous, which I believe it's absolutely not.

[Goatrevolt]

Cass, I just realized you've been in every single game I've finished on this site. That's madness.

I think there's some confusion regarding Matin. I don't think he's saying that it would be scummy of him to put the 2nd vote on someone. I think he's joking around saying it was scummy for someone else to vote for his choice.

[Jahudo]

Cass, I just realized you've been in every single game I've finished on this site. That's madness.

Cass has been in every game I've played so far too, but that's not saying much since this is my second game.

I think there's some confusion regarding Matin. I don't think he's saying that it would be scummy of him to put the 2nd vote on someone. I think he's joking around saying it was scummy for someone else to vote for his choice.

I got that impression too, and found it funny even if he's implying that I stole his random vote choice.

Pope do you think matin was trying to make a serious statement on his first post or doing an almost OMGUS vote for the random stage. A second vote isn't too scary at this stage anyway, but bandwagons can start pretty quick with aggressive style players.

[Matin]

Cass, I just realized you've been in every single game I've finished on this site. That's madness.

I think there's some confusion regarding Matin.

I don't think he's saying that it would be scummy of him to put the 2nd vote on someone. I think he's joking around saying it was scummy for someone else to vote for his choice.

oh, lol, It never occurred to me that people read it that way. Yes, I was merely expressing my frustration that somebody picked up the inherent scumminess of Ectomancer's name before I did..

[habitang]

I'm not really following all this nonsense. It is joke voting, there can't be any argument built on that, although we pretty much have done that. I think by us talking about matters that are not relevant to this game will allow scum to respond way too easily as Townie.
SO the topic will develop discussion, but I think thsi type of discussion has a scum slant to it. I support discussing, the more the better, even this irrelevant discussion has told me a little more about players.
Although alot of people have contributed to that topic, I

Fos: Jahudo

because he seems to be tryign to take it to the next level.

[Goatrevolt]

I'm not really following all this nonsense. It is joke voting, there can't be any argument built on that, although we pretty much have done that. I think by us talking about matters that are not relevant to this game will allow scum to respond way too easily as Townie.

Arguments based from joke voting is precisely how the game (generally) gets out of the random phase and into real discussion.

SO the topic will develop discussion, but I think thsi type of discussion has a scum slant to it. I support discussing, the more the better, even this irrelevant discussion has told me a little more about players.

How does this discussion have a scum slant to it? What kind of discussion is the type of discussion that doesn't have a scum slant?

Although alot of people have contributed to that topic, I

Fos: Jahudo

because he seems to be tryign to take it to the next level.

I don't understand this. You're FoSing Jahudo because he's trying to spark discussion?

[nhat]

Are you trying to avoid acting scummy so as not to draw attention to yourself?
Why would a townie be worried?

I dunno how you saw it this way, but will I use it as an excuse to start a bandwagon? You bet!

Unvote

Vote - TPT

Fixed tags -Mod

[nhat]

EBWOP....dunno why the tags were broken on that one...

Are you trying to avoid acting scummy so as not to draw attention to yourself?
Why would a townie be worried?

I dunno how you saw it this way, but will I use it as an excuse to start a bandwagon? You bet!

Unvote

Vote - TPT

[nureins]

@TPT
I dunno how you saw it this way, but will I use it as an excuse to start a bandwagon? You bet!

I saw it that way before TPT, I also want a bandwagon !!
Now seriously, after all the posts about the topic, I see two things in Matin's words:

1) that he felt Jahudo stole his vote for ectomancer. This part is what Matin used as any other reason he could use to make a "joke" vote on jahudo. And this is the part that Goatrevolt and Jahudo pointed out. I do not find this part very relevant, as I take Matin's way of voting as any joking way.

2) that he "changed" his mind from voting when jahudo stole the vote. I pointed out this question and later TPT insisted. In my view, not a very serious issue, so I just raised a question delicately to Matin in order to see his answer. I agree that he shouldnt be worried about putting a second vote on someone, and that hidding in the forest is not a good help for us...we do not need townies hidding if they are townies...now I want more words from Matin-jahudo-TPT-Goatrevolt-nhat to clarify my mind...

[nureins]

Ectomancer and Habitang also participated, so clearly I want to hear them too about these issues..

From Matin-Jahudo-TPT-Goat-nhat-ectomancer-habitang I found Ectomancer's words (even if they attack also me because I insisted like TPT) as the most pro-town, as he tried not to do a mess from a very minor issue that i just commented by passing in a friendly way...

[habitang]

I'm not really following all this nonsense. It is joke voting, there can't be any argument built on that, although we pretty much have done that. I think by us talking about matters that are not relevant to this game will allow scum to respond way too easily as Townie.

Arguments based from joke voting is precisely how the game (generally) gets out of the random phase and into real discussion...

How does this discussion have a scum slant to it? What kind of discussion is the type of discussion that doesn't have a scum slant?

...I don't understand this. You're FoSing Jahudo because he's trying to spark discussion?

I understand that the game has to start somewhere, and I appreciate the fact that the game has started, I'm not sure if ALL games start this way by grabbing onto joke voting and running with it, I can't really think of a much better way to start discussion. The thing is though, once we have the ball rolling, it does not make sense to dwell in the initial stages for too long and I think Jahudo is taking advantage of this phase that will not give us much additional clues to who is scum. It is time to move into real evidence of where people's tendencies and positions are to determine if they are pro-town or exhibiting scummy behaviour.

I mean if the Day 1 Lynch was based around how peoepl respond to an attack on their joke vote, then I think it is very easy to mislynch the least etiquette player rather than scum. I don't think Jahudo's questions would have led us to a lynch, but they certainly had potential to create anotehr 4 pages of discussion that woudl tell us less than anotehr page of proper investigation of a person's answer to relevant topics.

[The Pope's Tiara]

Are you trying to avoid acting scummy so as not to draw attention to yourself?
Why would a townie be worried?

I'm not worried..

joke vote. joke reason. nothing more to say really..

Are you only saying you're not worried to quell our suspicion because you are scum?

You know who else liked to joke, The Joker. And look where the actor who played him is now: Jack Nicholson. Do you really want to become Jack Nicholson?

[Jahudo]

The thing is though, once we have the ball rolling, it does not make sense to dwell in the initial stages for too long and I think Jahudo is taking advantage of this phase that will not give us much additional clues to who is scum. It is time to move into real evidence of where people's tendencies and positions are to determine if they are pro-town or exhibiting scummy behaviour.

I don't mean to prolong the random vote stage because actions during this time do not necessarily give us insight into other player's tactics/intentions/aggressive or defensive nature/etc, and some people don't even like to have a random vote stage so you won't get a read from them.

My question was not a serious accusation against the Pope, but his initial post is something I want to remember if he starts to use loaded questions in real discussions.

Are you trying to avoid acting scummy so as not to draw attention to yourself?

I'm not saying that this is a loaded question and worth investigating, but since he created it I want to know what his train of thought is. The question implies that matin is holding a grudge against me for voting his target, that he was "caught" doing this and now had to defend himself of something. I don't believe this is the case, and furthermore I believe that matin's vote on me was just as random/OMGUS/silly and appropriate for the random vote stage.

I don't think Jahudo's questions would have led us to a lynch, but they certainly had potential to create anotehr 4 pages of discussion that woudl tell us less than anotehr page of proper investigation of a person's answer to relevant topics.

Do you mean that 4 pages of feeling around/lighter discussion would not give us much to work on for later in the day? Proper investigations need to be started by discussion anyway.

@nureins, my initial reaction to Ectomancer is that he has seen thing kind of thing in random voting stages before and by joking about it himself does not see any serious harm; that an accuser does not have much to go on and a defender hardly has to defend themselves.

unvote

[Matin]

Are you only saying you're not worried to quell our suspicion because you are scum?

You know who else liked to joke, The Joker. And look where the actor who played him is now: Jack Nicholson. Do you really want to become Jack Nicholson?

Lol.

I'd be okay with being Jack for awhile..

[Matin]

I saw it that way before TPT, I also want a bandwagon !!
Now seriously, after all the posts about the topic, I see two things in Matin's words:

1) that he felt Jahudo stole his vote for ectomancer. This part is what Matin used as any other reason he could use to make a "joke" vote on jahudo. And this is the part that Goatrevolt and Jahudo pointed out. I do not find this part very relevant, as I take Matin's way of voting as any joking way.

2) that he "changed" his mind from voting when jahudo stole the vote. I pointed out this question and later TPT insisted. In my view, not a very serious issue, so I just raised a question delicately to Matin in order to see his answer. I agree that he shouldnt be worried about putting a second vote on someone, and that hidding in the forest is not a good help for us...we do not need townies hidding if they are townies...now I want more words from Matin-jahudo-TPT-Goatrevolt-nhat to clarify my mind...

Is this serious? The vote was entirely random as was the reason.

Let me get this straight, your theory is that I am scum who was afraid to draw the spotlight on myself by placing a second joke vote on someone, so instead, I drew the spotlight by announcing my fear to do so?

[Ythill]

I don't like the way Pope's #41 completely ignores what's been posted, and assumes Matin's alignment based on a null-tell.

Not a great case, but good enough for my first vote.

Vote: The Pope's Tiara

[Simenon]

I'm not really following all this nonsense. It is joke voting, there can't be any argument built on that, although we pretty much have done that. I think by us talking about matters that are not relevant to this game will allow scum to respond way too easily as Townie.

Every single game will start out with this argument, so let me try to take a different course: if you legitimately thought that random voting helps the scum, why does every single game on this site start with random voting, including the sites best posters, and why did a mafia discussion topic have near unanimous support for random voting?
I'll give you a hint: It isn't because it's fun.

SO the topic will develop discussion, but I think thsi type of discussion has a scum slant to it. I support discussing

Scum will

always

have a chance to manipulate discussion. Yet, we have it anyway.

[Simenon]

Ah, goats beat me to the punch.

[Simenon]

This conversation reminds me of my custom title on another mafia site:
"Random voting" is not a defense.

True words, people.

[The Pope's Tiara]

I'm glad that at least you can tell when I'm being ironic, Ythill. I was worried some people might not get it, so I put a blatant (if kinda stupid) joke in my post to signify that I wasn't being serious.